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Right from the start. Unable to run for a minute ----> To a Marathon.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Just back from the docs - they suspect I have picked up a viral infection which has not been shifted due to my newly undertaken fitness efforts. (Ironically the old me - pre losing 1 and a half stone and starting to get fit would most likely have shifted it within a couple of days but that my current training was putting pressure on my body leaving it to fight two fights at once) 4 tubes of blood taken and under orders not to train for a few days. :(

    Plan now is to lay off training until Tuesday, have a light run then. Have a larger run on Thursday and then lay off things until the 10k night race on the Sunday night. Just hoping that the lack of training wont screw things up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭maupat


    Hi Pageant Messiah - hope the viral infection clears up soon.

    I find your log very interesting. I only started out running at the beginning of this year and I'm happy to say that I completed my first 4km race in a time of 23.44 last Saturday and I'm so happy ;-) Having done some research online and thanks to many boardsie's suggestions I incorporated some elements of the C25k plan. As time progressed I leaned more towards a combination of how I was feeling personally while increasing my distance at my own pace. That's not to say that I haven't had my bad days too - days when I just couldn't take off so to speak! I also cycle and swim from time to time and this has certainly helped too.

    My next target is 5km, then 8 km with the final aim being a 10km race.

    As one other poster said, many of these logs are for seasoned runners but we all had to start somewhere and it's great to see a log that details your journey front he point of view of the beginner runner up to 10km ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    So 1st run in the guts of a week today. I figured I would go for a relatively short 5k run to ease back into things and not wanting to go too flat out with Sundays 10k in mind.

    Unfortunately my body gave up running after 3 kilometres. I say my body because my mind was having none of it yet suddenly I was stopped ! A throwback to the early days :D I ended up walking a full kilometre before running out the last 1k

    Times were:

    1 - 5.26
    2 - 5.50
    3 - 6.31 (you can see the gradual slow to a stop kicking in)
    4 - 9.08 (walked this)
    5 - 5.27

    Total time of 32:22

    I didn't feel overly bad (felt a little light headed but nothing like last week) after the 5th kilometre and the overall time wasn't so bad so I will consider the run a success. Kind of wish I had more time before Sunday. I don't think I am fully over the presumed viral infection but they won't postpone the race for me. :rolleyes::p


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    maupat wrote: »
    Hi Pageant Messiah - hope the viral infection clears up soon.

    I find your log very interesting. I only started out running at the beginning of this year and I'm happy to say that I completed my first 4km race in a time of 23.44 last Saturday and I'm so happy ;-) Having done some research online and thanks to many boardsie's suggestions I incorporated some elements of the C25k plan. As time progressed I leaned more towards a combination of how I was feeling personally while increasing my distance at my own pace. That's not to say that I haven't had my bad days too - days when I just couldn't take off so to speak! I also cycle and swim from time to time and this has certainly helped too.

    My next target is 5km, then 8 km with the final aim being a 10km race.

    As one other poster said, many of these logs are for seasoned runners but we all had to start somewhere and it's great to see a log that details your journey front he point of view of the beginner runner up to 10km ;)

    Hi manupat

    Thanks for the input :)

    I felt the same towards the end of the couch to 5k. You do feel like tailoring it to what your own body can do once you get past the regimented walk,run,walk,run,walk,run parts.

    That's a super time for a 4k from a beginners perspective. My best 4k according to Endomondo is 24:26 (which btw is a brilliant app for anyone with an iphone or android phone) This was done in the context of an 8km run so I'm sure my time could come down a bit if pushing for the last km in a 4km.

    If you're capable of covering 4k in 23 minutes I guarantee you that you could slow that down slightly, easily do 5k and most likely leap up to 8k very quickly.

    Looking back at it I went from my first ever 5k in one go to 8k in 2 weeks and another 2 weeks later hit 10k. In each scenario I had ran the previous distance (5k when running 8k for first time, 8k when running 10k) in a slower time which gave me enough energy / reserves to keep going when I reached the previous longest distance)

    All that said when I first done 5k I don't think I would have covered the 4k in the time you did so I'd be even more confident you could head out tonight and hit 5k no bother. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Again a not very encouraging run today. Ran in the gym as the weather was atrocious. I couldn't sustain the run for anything more than 1-2 km at a time before needing to walk for a while and ended up covering 6.5k in 43 minutes. This is well below what I was capable of prior to the bout of illness (having ran 10k non stop in 64 min) and now I have a dilemna.

    Do I try another run tomorrow or saturday and see if things have improved or do I lay off now until the race on Sunday night. As things stand I don't feel very confident that I can make a 10k run but am aware that doing too much in the next couple of days could prove to be a negative influence.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    After posting yesterday I posted a thread in the main forum looking for the thoughts of the more experienced runners on whether or not to train and what to do if I did.

    I decided to do a 5k run this morning and then to rest up until Sunday. Results were mixed if not a bit confusing too :D I had felt a bit better but still required a few walking breaks along the way. My splits were

    1 - 5.02
    2 - 5.37
    3 - 6.14
    4 - 6.51
    5 - 6.23

    Total time of 30:06

    Now here's the interesting thing. A couple of weeks ago when I ran 10k non stop I covered the first 5k in 30:18

    1 - 5.25
    2 - 5.50
    3 - 5.46
    4 - 6.32
    5 - 6.46

    So my run-walk-run-walk-run etc actually beat my non stop slower running.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭huskerdu


    Good luck on Sunday.
    If you are aiming to run the race in 64 minutes, that means over 6 min per km.

    I would suggest starting at that pace. Don't run the first few kms fast and tail off.

    If you run at a constant pace, you should have more in the tank at the end.

    The buzz of the race will keep you going. Enjoy it and report back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    My 6 year old informed me today that she is making me a special medal for when I win my race tomorrow. After explaining to her that Daddy probably wouldn't be winning the race as it was his first one she then declared that I could still have my medal BUT only if I didn't stop at all during the race. :D

    Therefore my tactic tomorrow will be very much slow and steady !


  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭maupat


    So 1st run in the guts of a week today. I figured I would go for a relatively short 5k run to ease back into things and not wanting to go too flat out with Sundays 10k in mind.

    Unfortunately my body gave up running after 3 kilometres. I say my body because my mind was having none of it yet suddenly I was stopped ! A throwback to the early days :D I ended up walking a full kilometre before running out the last 1k

    Times were:

    1 - 5.26
    2 - 5.50
    3 - 6.31 (you can see the gradual slow to a stop kicking in)
    4 - 9.08 (walked this)
    5 - 5.27

    Total time of 32:22

    I didn't feel overly bad (felt a little light headed but nothing like last week) after the 5th kilometre and the overall time wasn't so bad so I will consider the run a success. Kind of wish I had more time before Sunday. I don't think I am fully over the presumed viral infection but they won't postpone the race for me. :rolleyes::p

    Pageant Messiah,

    Firstly, how did the 10K go yesterday?

    I had a similar experience to the one you described (above) yesterday morning. Just couldn't seem to take off. After a gentle 5 min walk to warm up I managed to run 2.5km non-stop. After that it was a case of stopping and starting (and stopping and starting) finally managing to complete 5km (approx.). As Van said there are "days like this". Hard to understand - wasn't particularly tired or full-up after eating too late etc. Just goes like this sometimes (which is frustrating). So, I decided to take a break from running and I cycled from Clontarf to Howth at a nice easy pace the next day (50 mins round trip as it was quite windy). Hope to have a more successful run next time. I have registed for a 5k road race next month so this will serve to motivate me :)

    Incidentally, I have downloaded the Endomondo app - liking it so far :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Was just coming on to update this as you posted.

    The weather last night was truly awful - cold, very windy and rainy for the entire 10k. I was frozen solid waiting around for the start. From what I can see 20% of the field didn't bother to show up at all - which is an indicator of how bad conditions were.

    Running in such a large group is a very different experience to running alone. On one hand you're inspired by and carried along by the group buzz. On the other hand you have to watch out - other runners cutting you off, going around slower runners and being passed out by other runners is quite off putting at first. I just tried to keep my head down and run at a pace that I would be comfortable keeping up to do the 10k without stopping. It's amazing the power that a 6 year old has over you. :D

    I managed to run the entire course without stopping in 68 min. 2-3 weeks ago I would have been aiming for a 60 min finish so 8 min outside my original goal time is slightly disapointing. However given the illness and weather conditions I'm happy enough with the time. It's certainly something that can be greatly improved upon next time ! I think I could have pushed it a little more but I really didn't want to risk blowing up, having to walk or worse still having to stop.

    I learnt a few things from this and this would be relevant to anyone starting off and using an app like Endomondo or any GPS run tracker like it. My app showed that I ran a distance of 10.37km - when I looked at the map of my run on the app this morning it's clear that the GPS wasn't 100% accurate. (Either that or I jumped over some very tall buildings and walked on water on a number of occasions!) I had been pacing myself according to the app but I wasn't as far along the course as the app thought I was. It's something to be aware of - don't blindly trust the distance information being fed to you as it can be quite disheartening to realise you're not as close to the end as you think.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭maupat


    Pageant Messiah

    If you were prepared to hazard such conditions it's clear you're serious about your comeback :)

    As it happens, I was in town last night I can definitely vouch for the truly, torrential conditions. Actually saw some rain-soaked runners returning from the race.

    While the time may be disappointing to you, it is a good time considering your previous illness and the awful conditions. Chances are you will do better in your next challenge as surely the weather will not be as bad (although I say this with some trepidation as we do live in Ireland after all!)

    I've duly noted your comments re: Endomondo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    I've been in a reflective mood over the past couple of days. :) I took Monday off as a rest day after the efforts of Sunday night. I'm happy that I have gotten myself to a position where I can run 10k non stop and whilst I do harbour ambitions to take that distance further I also want to increase the speed that I am capable of running at.

    The OP of this log stated a goal of running a 5 mile race at the end of June in 40 min or under. My 5 mile split last Sunday was 52 minutes. Average pace overall for the 10k being 6:38 min per kilometre when it needs to be at 5:00 min per kilometre to hit my targets. I was hoping that there would have been a clear path / training program to lay out for beginners like me how to increase my speed but found that there was a wealth of mixed advice out there. I posted this question in the main forum :

    I've been reading up a lot on various methods on increasing running speed (including other threads in this forum) and I'm not sure what the best way forward for me is as a relative beginner.

    Background: I started running in January and at this have just gotten myself to the point where I am capable of running a 10km non stop - however my time is very slow - in fact the 10k distance has been more of an endurance feat for me than anything else. I ran the 10k Samsung night race in 68min (having once before managed it in 64min in the run up to it)

    Whilst pleased to have finished without stopping it's clear that my time is quite slow in the overall scheme of things and has a lot of room for improvement. A lot of the reading I have done is aimed at people cutting a few minutes at a time off their 10k PB's whereas I'm looking to knock out 18-20 min off mine - and I do have the room to do this based on a 68min time biggrin.gif - a 50 min 10k would not be considered unobtainable at all whereas cutting a 50 min pace to a 30 min 10k would be reserved for elite athletes only.

    So from what I can gather there are a few schools of thought and I would appreciate any advice / thoughts. What I have noted so far is:

    1) Obvious starting point is to lose weight - the more that comes off the quicker you run. I am 14.5 Stone at moment (coming down from 16 Stone in January) and I know that as more weight comes off it will help the time.

    2) Have a look at my stride - I observed other runners during the race and most runners ran with a longer stride than me even though I'm 6ft+ I think I shuffle / turnover paces too fast and increasing the length of my stride would be an improvement.

    3) Run longer distances. If I were to regularly run 15k distances then running a 10k becomes relatively easier - at which point speed can increase.

    4) Run shorter distance. Run shorter distances at faster speeds. A comfortable enough 10k pace can be increased for shorter distances which can become longer as time goes on.

    5) Run the same distance more often. As it gets easier to run the distance this leaves room to naturally increase the pace.

    6) Interval training - This seems to involve a wide range of theories and methods and perhaps what I need most advice about. Intersperse faster running sections within the run and hopefully over time these sew together to form a new faster base pace (be that the faster interval becomes the base or the base speed increases due to the time spent running at higher pace)

    7) Start a couch to 5k program again. Similar to interval training but taking a 9 week couch to 5k program but running the "running" segments at a lot higher a pace than first time round.

    I suspect that the best way forward for me is actually a combination of all points above. I would though appreciate the thoughts of the more experienced members of the community here. I am entering the Irish runner 5 mile at the end of June and the Fingal 10k on the 22nd of July and I think I can significantly improve my time here. My medium term goal will be a 40 min 5 mile / 50 min 5k and I understand that this may not be achievable in 3 months. However I'd like to try and would appreciate any pointers towards how to get there - in particular on how to approach interval training for this kind of goal.

    Thanks in advance for your comments.
    I had missed out in that post about strength training / weights to help muscle development so in reality there were 8 suggestions there. :) The overwhelming response though from the more experienced runners here was simply to run more and run more varied distances (points 3,4 and 5) and let the time take care of itself. This is what I will be doing !


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Monday: As mentioned above I took Monday off to recharge the batteries from Sundays race.

    Tuesday: First day back running and went for a very gentle session in the gym, mixing up running at my usual pace, running at a faster pace and walking - covering 5k in total. I viewed this simply as easing back into it and stretching out those sore muscles from Sunday.

    Today: I decided today to do a shorter 3k run at the fastest speed I could muster up - knowing that I would be stopping after it and not requiring to save energy to complete a few more kilometres afterwards. I covered 3k in 16 minutes and 1 Second.

    1 - 4:42
    2 - 5:28
    3 - 5:51

    Total - 16:01

    I went off way too fast to sustain even for 3k :D but even at that wasn't too far under my goal pace of 5 min per kilometre which was a bit of an eye opener ! I am going to repeat this 3k dash on a regular basis and see how times improve.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Have only had a couple of runs over the past few days.

    On Friday I had a 4k run down the length of the Phoenix Park in a fairly fast for me 22:25. A bit too fast I think :D as motivation to jog back up the park was close to non existant and it was more of a walk than anything else back to the car.

    1 - 5:29
    2 - 5:36
    3 - 5:33
    4 - 5:47

    Scheduled run yesterday had to be cancelled at short notice. :(

    However I got out for a gentler 5k run this morning clocking 31:02

    1 - 5:57
    2 - 6:17
    3 - 6:12
    4 - 6:30
    5 - 6:08

    As can be seen compared to the 4k run this was a lot slower (by choice)

    I am seriously considering entering this years Dublin Marathon. If I do I will be asking the mods to edit the thread title to reflect the new end goal. This mornings run was part of a LSR (Long Slow Run) which marathon training requires. This 5k distance increases on a weekly basis so don't be confused about the relatively short "long" run :)

    I will make a final decision on this in a few weeks time but in the mean time I will be following a training plan gearing up for the marathon. (In other words I will see if I can stick to the increasing distances and bail out if I can't :p )


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Short evening run after work. Little over 4k covered a circuit in my local area which is quite hilly. Time for 4k 23:28

    1 - 5:39
    2 - 5:31
    3 - 6:05 (Horrible hill in middle of this)
    4 - 6:14

    Quite surprised at the last km being slower than K3. I felt I had ran it at the same pace as K1 and K2.

    Now the slightly painful bit :) is that in order to do the 5 mile race in sub 40 minutes the pace required is sub 5:00 per kilometre. 7 weeks to go to race day and truth be known I am a little concerned about my target not being reached. That said 7 weeks is a long time for a beginners progress. I went from being unable to run for a minute to being able to run for 25 minutes in the first 7 weeks of this journey so I will not be panicking just yet !


  • Registered Users Posts: 875 ✭✭✭scriba


    Hey Pageant Messiah, well done on the 10k race last week. Have you decided on a training plan for your 8k target yet? And have you considered maybe incorporating some intervals into your training? They'll get you gradually used to running at your desired pace. They made me confident that I could run at my desired pace (which was 5 mins/km) for a period of time, but also gave me a target. Plus, you get to slow right down in between them :D

    Great work and attitude, keep it up! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    scriba wrote: »
    Hey Pageant Messiah, well done on the 10k race last week. Have you decided on a training plan for your 8k target yet? And have you considered maybe incorporating some intervals into your training? They'll get you gradually used to running at your desired pace. They made me confident that I could run at my desired pace (which was 5 mins/km) for a period of time, but also gave me a target. Plus, you get to slow right down in between them :D

    Great work and attitude, keep it up! :D

    Hi Scriba

    Thanks for stopping by :)

    In regards to training plans for 8k / speed work the short answer is no ! :D

    The longer answer ...

    My head has been slightly turned with the thoughts of running this years marathon and the only training plan I have even looked at is geared up towards the marathon. (Hal Higdons novice plan 1 preceded by the tail end of his spring novice training) It is a simple distance plan basically designed towards endurance / increasing mileage and doesn't have any speed work at all. As I posted earlier in the thread the consensus from the more experienced runners here when I asked for advice on increasing speed was run more often and run more variety of distances and times will naturally come down. That said I don't feel that a sub 40 5 mile will be achieved naturally in the time frames involved so I may have to look at some sort of interval training to boost the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 875 ✭✭✭scriba


    That's good advice, more running and mileage should naturally bring you over time into that desired pace range over 5k, 8k and 10k.

    You can always incorporate some speed work in later on in the plan, just to test out how you're improving. Miles and base fitness are the key to everything, I suppose. In my experience (3 months or so :rolleyes:), the longer distances have helped me push the pace when I've felt like doing so, and made me more confident in my own fitness. You can always throw in a quick 250m, 500m or even 1km into your runs every once in a while to see how it feels. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Yes let's move the goalposts :D

    Well as anyone subscribed to the thread may notice that the ending of the title has changed from "----> To a 5 Mile Run" to "----> To a Marathon" Thanks a million to Woddle for doing that for me.

    What started off as documenting my progress from an absolute beginner to a 5 mile run has now evolved into a slightly longer term goal of a Marathon.

    The marathon in question is this years Dublin City Marathon - this means this log will be tracking a beginners progress from being unable to run for a minute right through to running a marathon in 10 months. Along the way I will still be running the originally referred to in the OP 5 mile race - however it will be part of a longer term training plan to prepare for a marathon.

    So to the obvious starting questions.

    Why ?
    A few reasons - firstly when I started this journey to be honest with you and myself I didn't think I would be capable of running a marathon this year (not that I am at the moment mind you! :D) but my progress so far has been fantastic and I now truly believe I am capable of doing it this year and probably more importantly am realistically capable without endangering my health trying to get there !

    I also have a couple of charitable causes that I wish to help / fund raise for. These I will post about in a couple of weeks time as I want to organise / get clearance first before publically announcing this. Both are very close to my heart and one in particular is a relatively new organisation that could do with all the help / support they could get.

    Lastly I'm enjoying the change I have seen in myself over the past months. I'm losing weight, getting fitter and feeling good about myself. I enjoy running (not always at the time!) and I want to continue this journey well past a 5 mile race. It would be a massive personal achievement for me to run a marathon.

    What Time ?
    No time for the moment - my goal is simply to finish the marathon. Closer to marathon day I will have an idea of prospective finishing times but considering my recent fairly slow 10k run we're more than likely looking at a time heading towards 5 hours.

    How am I going to do it ? What's the training plan ?
    I am going to be utilising the help and support of the forum here - in particular the mentored novices thread. This is a fantastic idea and a credit to the community here. I've alreadly learned a great deal from this thread and it is a source of great confidence and encouragment for any beginner. I will be tweaking the training plan laid out for the novices in that thread to suit my own personal work / life patterns and to accomodate the other races in this years Race Series. I will post that training plan up shortly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    This is my second draft of the training plan I intend to follow - amended after advice given in the mentored novices thread. There may be other revisions along the way too but for the moment this is the plan:

    trainingplanb.jpg

    This plan is based on Hal Higdons novice marathon plan (starting 25th June with the few weeks in the mean time being filled in with the tail end of his novice runner program) As things stand I could quite comfortably handle the week beginning 25th June but I intend to follow the earlier program with a view to increasing speed for the 5 mile run in June.

    Few things to note:

    The race series races are highlighted in Red.

    Each week there is a LSR (Long Short Run) which gradually builds distance wise towards the marathon goal. Midweek there are 3 shorter runs back to back (also gradually increasing in distance) to simulate to the body running on tired / sore muscles. There is also a day of cross training (anything other than running to keep up fitness levels whilst giving running muscles a break) There is further information / discssion on this in the novices thread linked to in my last post and it is well worth a read for beginners thinking about running a marathon. My work life means I am busier at weekends so my LSR will be on Mondays. Most people will do this on Saturday or Sunday but it suits me better on Mondays.

    I have flipped the long run / cross train day around. (Original plan had these the other way around) My long run has to be on Mondays as its my only day off work wise and Saturday needs to be a non running day. The only way to stick with the 3 short runs back to back which is essential to the plan means the cross train day has to be before the long run. (This also means that if I do have to miss a day due to work commitments it will be the cross train day)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Mid week check in:

    Following the plan in the post above (or thereabouts anyway - I tend to run in kilometres whereas the plan is in miles!)
    ___________________________________________________________________
    Monday - 5 Kilometres.

    Not a great run at all. Posted this already in the mentoed novices thread ...

    Rather clumsy start to the week but lessons learned ! Today was my LSR all be it only 5k.

    1) I changed runners. The new runners must have a different foot position / stance (don't know the technical term for it!) but bottom line was a pile of muscles in both legs that never hurt before were burning by 3k in. Had to stop and walk for a kilometre trying to loosen them up. Ended up running the last kilometre pushing through the pain. Seems I need to break these in / get used to them before attempting any longer distances.

    2) I failed to check all my equipment and missed something rather important - That something being that there was a hole developing in the back pocket of my shorts. So 5k later and with aching muscles from above I arrive home to find house key lost. frown.gif So I ended up with the extra benefit of a couple of kilometres retracing my steps. Good news is key found :)
    ---

    Splits were:

    1 - 5:23
    2 - 6:10
    3 - 6:49
    4 - 9:24 - Walked / hobbled this
    5 - 5:35

    Total time 33:21

    At this point I am going to start entering 2 more figures in after each total time 1) If I kept this average pace up what would I do 5 miles in and 2) If I kept this pace up what would I do the marathon in. This is more for my own interest (then again I suppose training logs are quite personally orientated in general!) but may be of interest to look back on as the marathon approaches ....

    Avg Speed: 6:41 min/kilometre
    Expected 5 Mile Time 55:10
    Expected Marathon Time 5:18:22

    The above times calculated from http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/racepaces/rp

    __________________________________________________________________

    Wednesday - 4 Kilometres

    So after Mondays debacle with the shoes I went and had my running assessed and shelled out for a pair of runners that suit my running style. (It seems I over pronate and that my old pair of runners had the support in the right place whereas the runners I had recently acquired were more suitable for flat footed runners) That said pain was still there at first today.

    In fact just after 2k I found myself stopping for a walk without realising I had decided to do so ! So I decided that if I was going to walk a bit I would be running faster to make up for it. Thus started an unplanned interval session where I would run to a certain point, walk for a bit then pick another point to run to. Not that this would be a great strategy to cover an entire marathon in but the times were interesting ..

    1 - 4:58
    2 - 5:36
    3 - 6:31
    4 - 6:02

    Total 4k Time: 23:07
    Avg Speed: 5:48 min/kilometre
    Expected 5 Mile Time 48:58
    Expected Marathon Time 4:40:45

    __________________________________________________________________

    Still quite a bit off the 40 Min 5 mile I set a goal of in my first post but we are getting there. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Hi PM, good luck with your training.

    I have noticed that in all of your runs you do the first KM significantly faster than the other ones and then you end up either walking or slowing significantly. I think you need to concentrate on goin out much slower than you do at present. I am sure if you do that you will be able to run much further and at a better overall pace.

    This is especially true if you are training for a marathon as you have to go out very slow from the start and the trick is not to slow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    menoscemo wrote: »
    Hi PM, good luck with your training.

    I have noticed that in all of your runs you do the first KM significantly faster than the other ones and then you end up either walking or slowing significantly. I think you need to concentrate on goin out much slower than you do at present. I am sure if you do that you will be able to run much further and at a better overall pace.

    This is especially true if you are training for a marathon as you have to go out very slow from the start and the trick is not to slow.

    You're absolutely right - I am trying to make a concious effort to slow it down a bit for the first kilometre but then endomondo beeps in with 1k covered in x minutes and I'm going ah ffs - this will hurt in a few minutes. :D I suppose I'm like an excited puppy let off the leash - but definitely will slow it down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    You're absolutely right - I am trying to make a concious effort to slow it down a bit for the first kilometre but then endomondo beeps in with 1k covered in x minutes and I'm going ah ffs - this will hurt in a few minutes. :D I suppose I'm like an excited puppy let off the leash - but definitely will slow it down.

    It's certainly a good sign that you can already run a KM under 5 minutes and keep going, so the speed is there. You just need to work on endurnace and to do this you need to run at a relaxed pace that you can maintain for the whole run.
    Once you can do this you will soon find you can combine both your speed and endurance and run 8 5minute kilometers in a row in a race with a little adrenaline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Thursday 5k (3 Mile on schedule rounded up to 5k)

    Had a god run today. I tried to bear in mind what menoscemo had pointed out yesterday and slowed my pace down for the first kilometre. I was aiming for around 6 min per kilometre pace hoping to stick with it for the 5k. So I was damn surprised when endomondo chimed in that I had covered the 1st kilometre in 5:22 - I could have sworn I ran slower ! Slowed down a bit more - quite sure of hitting 6 min pace for kilometre 2. Landed in at 5:48 which wasn't too far off. I then decided to slow it down just a fraction more (helped by going onto an uphill section) so that I would have the energy left to maintain the pace for the full 5k. So after slowing down I chimed in with a slightly faster 5:42. At that stage I said to myself just keep going as close to this pace as you can. And kilometre 4 was indeed very close at 5:44 I was sore alright from the first 4k but I felt good enough to finish with a burst and really pushed it out for the last 1k - I felt like I had ran faster but it turned out to be my slowest kilometre of the run :confused: :pac: Moral of the story is I have a lot to learn about my own bodys pacing !

    End result was:

    1 - 5:22
    2 - 5:48
    3 - 5:42
    4 - 5:44
    5 - 5:49

    Total time for 5k 28:25 which smashed my personal best time by 1:43 :)

    Avg Speed: 5:42 min/kilometre

    Based on that average speed the following times are predicted ...

    Predicted 5 Mile Time 46:59
    Predicted Marathon Time 4:31:35

    I'm quite happy with that time and it's good to see some consistency in the splits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Friday

    Training plan calls for a short 2 mile run (3.2k) - I rounded it down slightly to 3k and had a 2k walk to finish it off. (The walk was a social walk with the missus who was training at the same time - it wasn't that I gave up after 3k :))

    1 - 5:35
    2 - 5:35
    3 - 5:38

    Total Time 16:48

    Avg Speed: 5:36 min/kilometre

    This is too low of a distance to give an accurate prediction of what time could be achieved for 5 miles / Marathons etc but it's in line with yesterdays pace.

    I felt good though and I'm fairly certain I could have knock out another 2k at the same pace. Then again it's easy to be certain of these things when you're not going to be doing them :pac: but all in all I'm happy with the weeks training.

    Next run is a 4.5 mile LSR on Monday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Change of plan - unable to run tomorrow morning as something came up at last minute so I brought forward the run to tonight.

    Plan calls for 4.5 miles --> converted this to 7km.

    I didn't really want to go running tonight to be honest. Was caught in two minds whether or not to go tonight or tomorrow night instead. My wife told me I would be sitting here pissed off later if I didn't so I just went for it.

    So bearing in mind this was meant to be a LSR I was aiming to do between 6:00 and 6:15 per kilometre. Splits were:

    1 - 5:55
    2 - 6:06
    3 - 5:57
    4 - 6:15
    5 - 6:20
    6 - 6:38
    7 - 6:12

    Total 43:22

    Even though this was a bit slower than the shorter runs during the week I must confess that I didn't feel as comfortable as I did with the shorter ones. In fact there were a couple of short walks thrown in during the latter stages. Even worse there were a few points along the way where I started questioning my sanity for wanting to run a 42k marathon :pac:

    Lesson learned: It's so much harder to run after a days work than first thing in the morning. (No surprise there though :)) What I don't know though is how much this effected things pace and endurance wise. I suspect the not feeling as comfortable as before even though I was at a slower pace was heavily influenced by the time shift but we will see as the weeks progress !


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    I've been slightly regretting since signing up for the marathon and starting the training plan for it that I wasn't doing much to help my original goal of a sub 40 minute 5 mile at the end of June. The training plan I have been following is more of a gentle introduction to longer distance / marathon running with the main knuckling down starting around the time of the 5 mile race. I'm more than capable of following this - in fact it is a little bit of a step back from the mileage I had been doing.

    So what I have decided to do is swap out the earlier part of my training plan (up to the 5 mile race series week) and follow Hal Higdons Intermediate plan for an 8k race. (jumping in a couple of weeks into it) http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51097/8K-Intermediate-Training-Program

    This involves an extra days running, longer distances and also introduces tempo and speed aspects to the plan. It is designed for those wishing to improve their 8k / 5 mile times. I'm hoping it will help me take a few minutes off my 5 mile time - it's a big ask at this stage to come in sub 40 for this race and I may have to accept that my original OP was too optimistic time frames wise. However by doing this I can at least know I gave it my best shot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    So with that quick update on my current thought process done it's on to the logging.

    Tuesday 22nd

    This was my first ever pace / interval session. The concept is that you run 400 metre bursts at a higher pace than normal, dropping back to a slower pace than normal (walking if appropriate) in between each 400 metre burst. I had a 1k warmup then 5 x 300-400 metre bursts over 3 kilometres before finishing off with a 1k slow jog.

    I quite simply ran these bursts too fast hence them not making the full 400 metres. Hal Higdons plan is to run them at a 5k race speed. My issue is that I am still very much a beginner in these things and don't really know what my race speeds are (same can be said about all speeds even comfortable gentle paces - they change so much / improve greatly at the start) Endomondo showed me hitting 4 min kilometre pace during these bursts which I wouldn't have a hope in hell of doing for 5k - I need to get used to / be aware of what my body feels like when running at 5 min/kilometre as this would be my goal race pace.

    Wednesday 23rd

    Plan was for a 4.5 mile run - nothing fancy, no tempos, no pace etc. It was a gorgeous morning in the Phoenix Park and I decided that I would actually do a 5 mile run along the route of the upcoming 5 mile race.

    Word of warning to any beginners doing this race not used to the park - sweet Jesus the last 3k will break your heart
    :pac:

    It's effectively an uphill finish all the way with 2 sections that feel like mount everest when you're climbing them. Considering the route is nearly a full circle then obviously this means that there is a bit of downhill in the mix too. I'd much prefer though a flatter 8k myself. I was reduced to a brisk walk on the two steep hills. Anyway as splits go:

    1 - 6:07
    2 - 5:47
    3 - 5:53
    4 - 5:36
    5 - 5:52
    6 - 6:31
    7 - 6:08
    8 - 6:52

    I had started off at a gentle enough pace, K2 - K5 are mainly downhill with the descent of the kyber in the middle giving the burst of pace. Trouble is that what you make up on the way down is always overshadowed by what you lose on the uphill !

    All that said I ended up with a 5 Mile time of 49 minutes even which is a new personal best.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Thursday 24th

    First ever tempo run. The concept here is that you start off at a slowish pace, gradually build up to your goal race speed (as opposed to the intervals where you increase speed from slow to fast immediately) and then gradually slow back down to finish off the run at the slow pace.

    That's the concept ! ;):D

    Yet again my legs took off a little too quick. I would have been aiming for around a 6:30 slow run pace rising to 5.30 as a goal pace. My splits were ..

    1 - 5:56
    2 - 6:09
    3 - 6:03
    4 - 5:33
    5 - 6:35

    As can be seen K1 and K2 were faster than they should have been - K3 was the start of my increasing pace yet only ended up a few seconds faster than K2 - K4 was bang on target as was the slow down for K5.

    All of these paces though aren't really set in stone just yet. A 5:30 race pace would get me a time of arond 44 min for the upcoming 5 mile race. I would actually need to be at 5:00 pace to come in under the 40 minutes. :eek:


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