Varadkar to Irish Electorate: Vote Yes or else...

GombeanMan

Seems to be alot of scaremongering going on here. This guy comes across as a complete arse with this nonsense. Varadkar is for the Elite, not the ordinary joe soap.

http://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-warns-of-access-to-bailout-funds-if-ireland-votes-no-373522-Mar2012/

Anyone

Any chance that guy can have to get his face in the media he takes it.

lividduck

GombeanMan wrote: »

Seems to be alot of scaremongering going on here. This guy comes across as a complete arse with this nonsense. Varadkar is for the Elite, not the ordinary joe soap.

http://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-warns-of-access-to-bailout-funds-if-ireland-votes-no-373522-Mar2012/

Wheres the "or else"?
All he seems to be saying is the obvious, if we choose not to join the club we won't get the benifits of club membership.
Title of the thread is misleading to say the least!

ejmaztec

Who the fuck's Joe Soap?

200yrolecrank

Its hard to believe that fella is 33,he looks closer to 46.
As a previous poster has said,any chance he can get he is calling the photographers or the press to get his fat head in the papers.
I suspect his little plan is to take Enda out in a couple of years and lead the fine galeparty.

Fran1985

lividduck wrote: »

Wheres the "or else"?
All he seems to be saying is the obvious, if we choose not to join the club we won't get the benifits of club membership.
Title of the thread is misleading to say the least!

where just duck before this happened?

Faith+1

Or else what?? He'll give us lines? He can go fcuk himself

Faith+1

ejmaztec wrote: »

Who the fuck's Joe Soap?

John smiths best friend

TheZohanS

Voting yes will cost us nearly €10 billion...they don't seem to be telling peeps that...

RichieC

ejmaztec wrote: »

Who the fuck's Joe Soap?

joey sickpack. Micheal Mundane, Andrew Anyman.

ejmaztec

Faith+1 wrote: »

John smiths best friend

So it's not the new man advertising Cillit Bang?

biko

Another scaremongering trick from the government.
Will probably succeed this time as well.

Maybe they don't want to have to do the vote a second time in case we get it wrong the first time.

dvpower

GombeanMan wrote: »

Seems to be alot of scaremongering going on here. This guy comes across as a complete arse with this nonsense.

Where exactly is the scaremongering in that piece?

Your internet works differently to mine.:rolleyes:

spank_inferno

I was happy to vote yes on the merits of the question asked.

Its the lies and scaremongering that turn me to the dark / no side.

44leto

How is it scaremongering, this is probably true, why would the ECB provide the rest of the rescue package if we are in danger of misbehaving again in the future.

If I was the ECB I certainly would with hold the funds till the new treaty became law here.

Doc Ruby

Honestly I thought that voting no wouldn't matter in terms of further loans from the European Central Bank which is insisting we repay unguaranteed bondholders (unprecedented). So I thought why not vote yes, won't make a difference.

Now Leo has said otherwise, I'm quite happy to vote no. Cheers Leo.

By the way what is this: "increasingly it looks like we won’t need a second bailout, because we’re meeting our targets".

Leo the markets aren't public sector bean counters, they aren't under any obligation to lend to us if we "meet our targets" if you do your homework and chores. They'll continue to do what they've been doing all along, which is to tell successive Irish governments to get knotted if said governments continue to take on other peoples' debts.

dvpower

TheZohanS wrote: »

Voting yes will cost us nearly €10 billion...they don't seem to be telling peeps that...

Didn't you yourself identify this as "just above €1.273 billion, to be paid in five equal instalments starting in July 2013"? (link)

Isn't the €10bn the amount that is callable should the entire amount in the ESF be drawn down? (if it is, you can be confident that we will be receiving the money, not paying it)

TheZohanS

dvpower wrote: »

Didn't you yourself identify this as "just above €1.273 billion, to be paid in five equal instalments starting in July 2013"? (link)

Isn't the €10bn the amount that is callable should the entire amount in the ESF be drawn down? (if it is, you can be confident that we will be receiving the money, not paying it)

Yes the €1.3 billion is a definite payment, a cash payment but we have a further callable capital of €10 billion if the sh1t hits the fan, and we have no idea what will happen next year.

We're struggling at the moment and the government wants to sign us up to another €1,300,000,000 that we can't afford? FFS.

Chucky the tree

TheZohanS wrote: »

Voting yes will cost us nearly €10 billion...they don't seem to be telling peeps that...

And how much will it be if we vote no?

dvpower

TheZohanS wrote: »

We're struggling at the moment and the government wants to sign us up to another €1,300,000,000 that we can't afford? FFS.

'cos we're quite likely to need access to the ESM

TheZohanS

Chucky the tree wrote: »

And how much will it be if we vote no?

Nothing.

dvpower wrote: »

'cos we're quite likely to need access to the ESM

According to the government we won't.

Son Of A Vidic

Anyone remember this? Didn't they say during the Lisbon treaty vote part deux, that a Yes vote would be a..."Yes to jobs" and a "Yes to Recovery." Has greater delusional bullshít ever been printed on a campaign poster? Yet we find ourselves with another gun to our head. With the usual lies promising salvation if we vote Yes and doom if we vote No. Haven't we heard the same tired old mantra before and hasn't the pattern become insulting obvious. A Euro referendum comes along and the government starts spinning their usual gormless, fear mongering bullshít.

dvpower

TheZohanS wrote: »

According to the government we won't.

You believe the government are correct?:rolleyes:

The ratings agency Moodys has said Ireland is likely to need a second bailout when the current aid programme expires.

Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/moodys-ireland-likely-to-need-second-bailout-542358.html#ixzz1oG57BPtG

Temptamperu

It dosent matter what we vote, Ut didnt with the Lisbon malarky and its not going to matter here.
All our govenment wants to do is follow europe around like a bullied kid following his own abuser around looking for validation.
Oh except when its prices and laws it dosent like then we dont want to be in europe.

Chucky the tree

Temptamperu wrote: »

It dosent matter what we vote, Ut didnt with the Lisbon malarky and its not going to matter here.
All our govenment wants to do is follow europe around like a bullied kid following his own abuser around looking for validation.
Oh except when its prices and laws it dosent like then we dont want to be in europe.

Of ocurse it matters, the Government didn't rig the Lisbon treaty. :rolleyes:

TheZohanS

dvpower wrote: »

You believe the government are correct?:rolleyes:

I believe they've shot themselves in the foot with this one, on the one hand they're saying we won't need another bailout, which means voting yes makes no sense and on the other hand they're telling us to vote yes to something that we don't need and is going to cost us €1.3 billion.

Where the hell are we going to find €1.3 billion? And where would we find an additional €10 billion if the sh1t hits the fan? It would put Ireland back in the dark ages.

Temptamperu

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Of ocurse it matters, the Government didn't rig the Lisbon treaty. :rolleyes:

No they didnt you are correct, they just had it twice because they didnt like our first answer.

daltonmd

"has warned that it would be “foolish” to think that Ireland could retain access to European Union bailout facilities if it did not vote ‘Yes’ in the forthcoming referendum on the Fiscal Compact."


I don't think anyone who "chooses" to vote no should be labelled "foolish". I also don't think that anyone who votes no is under any illusion about the ramifications of voting no.
\I just wish he'd tell us the ramifications of voting yes. We still have to drastically reduce our deficit, we still have to cut PS pay, SW, pensions and so on.
Leo and his ilk have repeatedly told us that Ireland will not need another bailout - this vote should never have been about a second bailout - but they were first out of the traps warning us that if we didn't vote their way then we couldn't get another bailout in the "unlikely" event that we needed one.


All this from the person who told us before the GE - NOT ONE MORE RED CENT will go into Irish banks - what to believe eh.

Instead of scaremongering (and that is what he is doing) he should be clear and straight with the electorate.

Chucky the tree

TheZohanS wrote: »

I believe they've shot themselves in the foot with this one, on the one hand they're saying we won't need another bailout, which means voting yes makes no sense and on the other hand they're telling us to vote yes to something that we don't need and is going to cost us €1.3 billion.

Where the hell are we going to find €1.3 billion? And where would we find an additional €10 billion if the sh1t hits the fan? It would put Ireland back in the dark ages.

And if we vote no and then need a second bailout how much do you thin that will cost? You could just decide yourself what's going to happen and vote accordingly instead of needing the Government to feed it to you.

Temptamperu wrote: »

No they didnt you are correct, they just had it twice because they didnt like our first answer.

And the people democratically spoke the second time, if people didn't want the Lisbon treaty they could have voted no but it passed with huge success.

Mark200

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Anyone remember this? Didn't they say during the Lisbon treaty vote part deux, that a Yes vote would be a..."Yes to jobs" and a "Yes to Recovery." Has greater delusional bullshít ever been printed on a campaign poster? Yet we find ourselves with another gun to our head. With the usual lies promising salvation if we vote Yes and doom if we vote No. Haven't we heard the same tired old mantra before and hasn't the pattern become insulting obvious. A Euro referendum comes along and the government starts spinning their usual gormless, fear mongering bullshít.

Oh WHAT THEY TOLD US YES TO JOBS? FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN THAT MENTIONED ON THIS SITE! Seriously though, fair play for enlightening us.

In terms of "Has greater delusional bullshít ever been printed on a campaign poster?"... Well I guess not, assumed our €1.83 minimum wage and EU enforced abortion on demand are on their way, which is what the No campaign had on their posters.

In terms of whether or not we need a second bailout... I guess its like walking a high-rise tightrope and saying "well I probably won't fall" yet strongly objecting to anyone who insists on removing your safety net.

dvpower

TheZohanS wrote: »

Where the hell are we going to find €1.3 billion?

Like everything else, we're going to be borrowing for it or selling assets:mad:

TheZohanS wrote: »

And where would we find an additional €10 billion if the sh1t hits the fan? It would put Ireland back in the dark ages.

If the sh1t hits the fan, its likely that we will be the sh1t, not the fan.

What happens if the sh1t hits the fan and we're not in the ESM? I don't hear a reasonable explanation from anyone on the No side on this question.

Zebra3

You got a laugh at how gullible people are.

"Oh, we won't get money for another bailout".

FFS, the bailout is not for Ireland, it's for foreign banks.

If they don't lend us money, we can't repay the gambling losses of German, French and British banks.

The politicans and the rest of the elite are only worried because if the state goes bankrupt, there'll be no cash to pay their obscene salaries and pensions.

Use your brain, see the bigger picture and vote no.

GombeanMan

dvpower wrote: »

Like everything else, we're going to be borrowing for it or selling assets:mad:


If the sh1t hits the fan, its likely that we will be the sh1t, not the fan.

What happens if the sh1t hits the fan and we're not in the ESM? I don't hear a reasonable explanation from anyone on the No side on this question.

We default and wait it out. Just like Iceland did. They laugh at the prospect of joining the EU. They are doing OK now. http://news.investors.com/article/602944/201203020802/iceland-fixes-bank-crisis-ireland-a-mess.htm?src=HPLNews

TheZohanS

Chucky the tree wrote: »

And if we vote no and then need a second bailout how much do you thin that will cost? You could just decide yourself what's going to happen and vote accordingly instead of needing the Government to feed it to you.

I'm not sure but you can be pretty sure that the EU will not refuse us a bailout, if we're fecked and can't raise funds the market will get jittery and it will effect the Euro and there's also the chance of contagion amongst other EU states. They can't afford to let us go bankrupt.

Chucky the tree

Zebra3 wrote: »

You got a laugh at how gullible people are.

"Oh, we won't get money for another bailout".

FFS, the bailout is not for Ireland, it's for foreign banks.

If they don't lend us money, we can't repay the gambling losses of German, French and British banks.

The politicans and the rest of the elite are only worried because if the state goes bankrupt, there'll be no cash to pay their obscene salaries and pensions.

Use your brain, see the bigger picture and vote no.

Oh the ironing. Who's paying for massive deficit then? :rolleyes:

GombeanMan

TheZohanS wrote: »

I'm not sure but you can be pretty sure that the EU will not refuse us a bailout, if we're fecked and can't raise funds the market will get jittery and it will effect the Euro and there's also the chance of contagion amongst other EU states. They can't afford to let us go bankrupt.

Nail on the head. Greece got more funding despite being basically totally bankrupt. The EuroKrauts know that if they allow one country the ability to exit through default, it would create a domino effect, whereby other members would eventually wish to leave.

Von Rumpey won't allow that to happen, of course.

daltonmd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

And if we vote no and then need a second bailout how much do you thin that will cost? You could just decide yourself what's going to happen and vote accordingly instead of needing the Government to feed it to you.




And the people democratically spoke the second time, if people didn't want the Lisbon treaty they could have voted no but it passed with huge success.

After changes to it. It wasn't the same treaty the second time around. I think we need to look at the wording of it. I think also that this government need to spell it out straight - not what will happen if we vote no - but what it means by voting yes.

GombeanMan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Oh the ironing. Who's paying for massive deficit then? :rolleyes:

You. You don't get a say in the matter anymore if this "treaty" passes. You will be a serf to the EU and their European Paymasters. You will be paying for other peoples losses and gambling habits.

dvpower

GombeanMan wrote: »

We default and wait it out. Just like Iceland did. They laugh at the prospect of joining the EU. They are doing OK now. http://news.investors.com/article/602944/201203020802/iceland-fixes-bank-crisis-ireland-a-mess.htm?src=HPLNews

I was looking for a reasonable explanation.

How can you 'wait out' our deficit? It won't just 'go away'.

Zebra3

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Oh the ironing. Who's paying for massive deficit then? :rolleyes:

The Irish people.

You are aware that the so-called "bailout" is a loan and not a gift? :rolleyes:

The politicans are worried because bankruptcy means goodbye to their massive pensions pots and the big paydays for their buddies thay give handy overpaid semi-state sectors jobs.

Head of the ESB is a prime example.

GombeanMan

dvpower wrote: »

I was looking for a reasonable explanation.

How can you 'wait out' our deficit? It won't just 'go away'.

What part of "default" do you not understand? The point of a debt default, is to write off these socialised losses. We start off on a clean slate, with no bailing out or any of that European Union endorsed nonsense.

dvpower

TheZohanS wrote: »

I'm not sure but you can be pretty sure that the EU will not refuse us a bailout, if we're fecked and can't raise funds the market will get jittery and it will effect the Euro and there's also the chance of contagion amongst other EU states. They can't afford to let us go bankrupt.

That's a risky strategy - decide not to join their rescue mechanism and then expect to be rescued.

Chucky the tree

GombeanMan wrote: »

You. You don't get a say in the matter anymore if this "treaty" passes. You will be a serf to the EU and their European Paymasters. You will be paying for other peoples losses and gambling habits.

Eh no. The EU and IMF are paying for it. They are the ones keep Gardai on the streets, teachers in the class room, doctors and nurses in the hospital, paying the pensioners, child benefits and the unemployed.

daltonmd

TheZohanS wrote: »

I'm not sure but you can be pretty sure that the EU will not refuse us a bailout, if we're fecked and can't raise funds the market will get jittery and it will effect the Euro and there's also the chance of contagion amongst other EU states. They can't afford to let us go bankrupt.

I'm with you on this - this vote is not about a second bailout. FG have truly screwed this one up.

dvpower

GombeanMan wrote: »

What part of "default" do you not understand? The very point of a debt default, is to write off these socialised losses. We start off on a clean slate, with no bailing out or any of that European Union endorsed nonsense.

What part of deficit do you not understand?

We do not start off with a clean slate - we start off with a massive deficit.

GombeanMan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Eh no. The EU and IMF are paying for it. They are the ones keep Gardai on the streets, teachers in the class room, doctors and nurses in the hospital, paying the pensioners, child benefits and the unemployed.

By taking the money from your pocket. These Institutions don't create wealth, they merely steal it from people in the form of taxation. If these Institutions were forced to operate like a standard company, they would have gone out of business a long, long time ago.

Monty Burnz

I'm so tired of hearing the pathetic whining from every interest group about the 'austerity' that is being inflicted on them, I hope there is a no vote and we get fúcked out of the Euro. Then you'll see real hardship. My only concern is my parents, but I can send them money from abroad if necessary.

The 'austerity' we are seeing today is still a more cushy system that would be in place if we didn't have the disastrous bubble: people got spoiled by the idea that you don't have to pay any taxes and can still get good public services. Guess what? You can't.

And it's a bit rich complaining about this shít now after voting in Fianna Failure time after time, ignoring their corruption and stupidity. This is what voting for corrupt idiots brings. Enjoy it folks.

Please, please vote 'no'. Please have a sovereign default. Then at least the constant whining about household charges and septic tank charges and whatever will be replaced by merited whining about lack of basic medicines and food.

Cheers, I feel better now.

GombeanMan

dvpower wrote: »

We do not start off with a clean slate - we start off with a massive deficit.

Yes, we do. The Deficits we have incurred are largely as a result of European Loans. Write these loans off, the deficit is minimal. This does not account for the fact the country would be effectively bankrupt for a short period of time, but that is an entirely different matter.

daltonmd

dvpower wrote: »

What part of deficit do you not understand?

We do not start off with a clean slate - we start off with a massive deficit.

We still have that deficit if we vote yes. If we need a second bailout then we need a third, fourth and finally we will get to a stage when we will have to default - like Greece - the medicine is killing the patient.

Monty Burnz

GombeanMan wrote: »

Yes, we do. The Deficits we have incurred are largely as a result of European Loans. Write these loans off, the deficit is minimal. This does not account for the fact the country would be effectively bankrupt for a short period of time, but that is an entirely different matter.

Total bullshyte. These 'loans' you vaguely refer to amount to a few billion in interest. The deficit is about 20 billion.

Edit: to clarfiy; you seem to be confusing the national debt with the fiscal deficit.

daltonmd

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Total bullshyte. These 'loans' you vaguely refer to amount to a few billion in interest. The deficit is about 20 billion.

It's about 17bn at this stage - the thing is though, with more recessionary cuts, no growth, no spending - we can't make a decent dent in the deficit. Add promissory notes in and the other interest repayments and we simply will not get out of this mess - we are in a death (debt) spiral.