Che Guevara Statue In Galway

fishy fishy

dan1895 wrote: »

Isn't that O'Reilly Cafe which is just named after the street? Nowhere does it allude to being an Irish bar that I could see anyway. Pity I missed the plaque though.

Back on topic, some people need to read up on this man instead of believing American propaganda.

tis a pub alright, they serve fabulous drinks. Once you get on the high stool you can't get off.

fishy fishy

old hippy wrote: »

Just think, a Galway city devoid of Floridans :rolleyes:

Floridans wouldn't come to the wild west of Ireland, they are afraid of all the rain and dampness there. isn't everyone in Florida about 100 though, isn't that the last stop for people who have retired in other states. Don't they all go around in wheelchair type thingys instead of walking?

Bobby Baccala

The people of florida can suck my left ball, it doesn't affect them they should **** off and mind their own business.

KeithAFC

Dotsey wrote: »

This has to be one of the most outrageous quotes I've seen from you Keith.

"Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the colour of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men—how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom?" Che Guevara

Ché in 1964 was one of the first people to criticise the apartheid policies in South Africa before the U.N. and he also travelled to the Congo to fight against imperialism yet madly he can somehow be portrayed as a racist by someone who supports the fascist and supremacist orange order.

Galway have every right to erect a statue of one of it's most famous sons.

You going to post his other quotes? Put the full picture up for people to see. Leave the irrelevant stuff out of the thread.

fishy fishy

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

The people of florida can suck my left ball, it doesn't affect them they should **** off and mind their own business.

ah, don't be too hard on them. I think they are just sore because their corrupted ancesters were rounded up and told to get out of cuba. They lost all their brothels, mafia connections and their "playground". wouldn't you be sore if that happened to your granny.

there is a great scene in The Godfather of them running onto boats, planes, you name it when they heard che was comin to get them.

Nodin

KeithAFC wrote: »

You going to post his other quotes? Put the full picture up for people to see. Leave the irrelevant stuff out of the thread.

You're the one who claimed he was a racist, its for you to back up your end.

KeithAFC

Nodin wrote: »

You're the one who claimed he was a racist, its for you to back up your end.

Other people have posted and referenced the quotes. So no need to post the quotes. It was a point about showing the full picture of a historical figure.

Dostoevsky

St.Spodo wrote: »

Píssing off the right in this country and abroad is a fundamentally noble exercise. If it makes Kevin Myers cry, I'd go one step further and put a statue of Trotsky at the gate of Stephen's Green.

I'm afraid that noble spot in Dublin is currently being occupied by a monument, named Traitors' Gate upon its erection in 1907, which glorifies Irish-born British soldiers of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers who died fighting the Boers at the start of the 20th century, in a war where the British state forced hundreds of thousands of Boers into British concentration camps, where tens of thousands of innocent Boer women and children died.

Anyway, back to Che and how all the Anglo types think he doesn't deserve a monument because he, er, killed people.

RichieC

KeithAFC wrote: »

Other people have posted and referenced the quotes. So no need to post the quotes. It was a point about showing the full picture of a historical figure.

Shut the f*ck up you fenien bastards - KeithAFC on youtube

true.

St.Spodo

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I'm afraid that noble spot in Dublin is currently being occupied by a monument, named Traitors' Gate upon its erection in 1907, which glorifies Irish-born British soldiers of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers who died fighting the Boers at the start of the 20th century, in a war where the British state forced hundreds of thousands of Boers into British concentration camps, where tens of thousands of innocent Boer women and children died.

Anyway, back to Che and how all the Anglo types think he doesn't deserve a monument because he, er, killed people.

Get rid of that, put up a Che statue. Sure didn't the Irish Citizen Army fight in the Green during the Rising? Do that, and get out the popcorn.

Dostoevsky

St.Spodo wrote: »

Get rid of that, put up a Che statue. Sure didn't the Irish Citizen Army fight in the Green during the Rising? Do that, and get out the popcorn.

And let's have a vote in Dublin: should this city commemorate Che Guevara or the British soldiers who were party to the deaths of tens of thousands of women and children in concentration camps in South Africa?


No prizes for guessing who'd win.

Cameron Poe

KeithAFC wrote: »

Other people have posted and referenced the quotes. So no need to post the quotes. It was a point about showing the full picture of a historical figure.

Except it doesn't seem to be real, there is no source for it. Don't let that stop you though.

Ellis Dee

Just tell those right-wing nutbars in the USA and elsewhere who are protesting that Galway adopts a balanced, even-handed policy towards honouring figures that some would consider controversial, just as long as they have some Irish connection. Ernesto Guevara's mother was of Irish descent. Another famous person, from the opposite end of the political spectrum whom Galway honoured, was Ronald Reagan, a B actor who was the son of an Irish drunk, later went into politics and became a warmongering right-wing president who sponsored terrorism in Latin America, especially Nicaragua.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

In 1984 he was awarded a Doctorate in Laws honoris causis by University College Galway. The timing was good, as it was exactly one day after the United States of AmeriKKKa announced that it would not accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.:):)

Hannibal

KeithAFC wrote: »

You going to post his other quotes? Put the full picture up for people to see. Leave the irrelevant stuff out of the thread.

Post all the quotes then Keith.

Ché's actions above all else prove he wasn't a racist. I have read Ché's diaries and yes there is some examples of what nowadays you could call casual racism and generalisation using stereotypes which would be typical of someone like Ché who came from a middle class background.

What is different with Ché is that he took the time to travel around South America to actually see with his own eyes how people lived and also how they were being exploited through imperialism and oppression and this formed the basis for his political and revolutionary beliefs. Ché has a lot of diaries and there's plenty of quotes about but you always have to be mindful of the context in which these diaries were written and translated from Spanish, some were written in the jungles in the middle of wars and you have to get into this mindset in order to properly paraphrase what he was writing about.

But it's absolutely beyond question that Ché Guevara was not a racist in any way, shape or form.

DannyKing

If it pisses people off. Erect that bad boy now.

Manic Moran

El Siglo wrote: »

Would there be as many objections if a statue of Batista was put up? He was no angel in pre-communist Cuba. The yanks can't talk either, sure they still have a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest (big in the KKK).

Forrest's membership of the Klan is not quite as bad as the phrasing indicates since the nature of the organisation changed over time. From the linked Wiki:

The committee also noted, "The natural tendency of all such organizations is to violence and crime; hence it was that General Forrest and other men of influence in the state, by the exercise of their moral power, induced them to disband.”[50]

In 1875, Forrest demonstrated that his personal sentiments on the issue of race now differed from that of the Klan, when he was invited to give a speech before an organization of black Southerners advocating racial reconciliation,

As for putting up statues of military men, I don't agree with that. Ballinrobe recently put up a statue of John King a naval man in the US.

The man was awarded the Medal of Honor twice, no common event, for pretty uncontroversial circumstances, and often returned home to Ballinrobe. There's a much less tenuous link between King and Ballinrobe than between Che and Galway.

Only military statues that should be put up in Ireland are of those who have served Ireland since 1922, like those boys in the Congo, is there any statue for them????

The Niemba Memorial is in Thurles. The UN Congo Memorial is in Arbour Hill. There are a few other memorials for UN duty in general scattered around.

a little tidbit of fact: if you walk down O'Reilly Street in the heart of havana, you will come across a commemoration plaque on the wall dedicated to Ireland and cuba. It is written in Spanish, Irish and English.

We have a great tradition for going off and fighting in everyone else's wars. The Alamo is considered a Shrine in Texas. Go in the door, look right, there's an Irish tricolour. Not only that, but the "Saviour of the Alamo" was a lass named Clara Driscoll.

NTM

Crooked Jack

Douglas Dead Banana wrote: »

Bit too old by now though.

I'd say he'd make a great manager though

MetalDog

DannyKing wrote: »

If it pisses people off. Erect that bad boy now.

Yep, go for it, especially if it pisses off rightwing catholic CIA stooges like Declan Del - Boy.

I honestly don't give a toss about Che or the trendy **** who go around with him on t shirts, but never pass up a chance to have a go at the conservative teabagger types, because it's quite entertaining to watch them react apoplectically.

old hippy

old hippy wrote: »

Che has his shortcomings, he wasn't as sexy as the Jim Fitzpatrick iconic print - he was naive and yes, he did unpleasant things in the pursuit of freedom. Not to mention establishing a communist dynasty in Cuba.

But. He was fighting for freedom. Against a dreadful regime who were in cahoots with the mafia and corrupt business.

There's always going to be casualties in the pursuit for freedom. Which is why I wear my Che t shirt without too much angst and soul searching.

Freedom my bollox he enslaved the Cubans under a communist dictatorship. People have risked their lives floating through shark infested waters every year trying to escape this "freedom" you speak of.

Alot of anti american rubbish on this thread. Seems all you have to do to become a hero to these people is annoy the Americans.

fishy fishy

keithob wrote: »

A Che Guevara or Chavez like person is exactly what we need in this country...

Not cowardily corrupt two faced politicians whose only agenda is to line the own pockets.

Who gives a fiddlers what the Americans think...

well said.
sadly the ones that run this country haven't enough brain cells not to make a mess of it - they think by ar*e licking the americans and the europeans they will be held in "high regard" when in fact we are seen as having no backbone whatsoever. I Che or Chavez or Evo person would be excellent -sadly I don't think there is one - hey maybe we could kidnap Chavez and make him run this country.

fishy fishy

Deleted User wrote: »

Freedom my bollox he enslaved the Cubans under a communist dictatorship. People have risked their lives floating through shark infested waters every year trying to escape this "freedom" you speak of.

Alot of anti american rubbish on this thread. Seems all you have to do to become a hero to these people is annoy the Americans.

ignorence is bliss.

old hippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Freedom my bollox he enslaved the Cubans under a communist dictatorship. People have risked their lives floating through shark infested waters every year trying to escape this "freedom" you speak of.

Alot of anti american rubbish on this thread. Seems all you have to do to become a hero to these people is annoy the Americans.

A little bit but as someone who's half American, let me ask this? Is there not a statue of Winston Churchill, (the man who sent the Black and Tans into Cork & suggested gassing the Kurds long before Saddam did), in Washington? That's pretty offensive, having a murderer praised as a hero, no?

dan1895

blindjustice wrote: »

old hippy wrote: »

Che has his shortcomings, he wasn't as sexy as the Jim Fitzpatrick iconic print - he was naive and yes, he did unpleasant things in the pursuit of freedom. Not to mention establishing a communist dynasty in Cuba.

But. He was fighting for freedom. Against a dreadful regime who were in cahoots with the mafia and corrupt business.

There's always going to be casualties in the pursuit for freedom. Which is why I wear my Che t shirt without too much angst and soul searching.

Freedom my bollox he enslaved the Cubans under a communist dictatorship. People have risked their lives floating through shark infested waters every year trying to escape this "freedom" you speak of.

Alot of anti american rubbish on this thread. Seems all you have to do to become a hero to these people is annoy the Americans.

He did free the Cubans from a corrupt fascist dictator. Cuba only became communist as the Americans weren't playing nice to begin with. Cuba wasnt doing exactly what they were told by the yankees and si washington decided to cancel its supply of sugar from cuba leaving them staring into an economic abyss. Along come the Soviets and place an order for the exact amount of sugar as would usually of been bought by the US. So the Cubans niw had a new best friend and obviously started leaning further and further to the left.

Castro's initial plan was for a socialist state, not a communist.

Mickey H

Fran1985 wrote: »

They mustn't have seen the video from Rag week in supermacs

There was a rag week in Galway? When?

TeddyTedson

I still don't know. Was he a goodie or baddie?

jamezito

GombeanMan wrote: »

Guevara was a murdering scumbag. I find the people who idolise this guy tend to either share his murderous sociopathic views, or are simply naive. **** Che Guevara. The statue will be a icon for Communists. Nobody else will care.

You`re just an ignorant fool. plain and simple. I completely idiolise him and with good reason and no im not a sociopath or naive. i have read a lot about him and the history of south america. maybe you should do yourself a favour and pick up a book once and a while and keep your ignorant comments to yourself

old hippy

jamezito wrote: »

You`re just an ignorant fool. plain and simple. I completely idiolise him and with good reason and no im not a sociopath or naive. i have read a lot about him and the history of south america. maybe you should do yourself a favour and pick up a book once and a while and keep your ignorant comments to yourself

Dude, check out his username. Whaddya expect?

johngalway

wendell borton wrote: »

Plans to erect a Che statue in Galway has caused outrage in florida.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/01/che-guevara-statue-galway_n_1313568.html


I say that they should mind their own business and **** off, Che is one of the most influential figures of the 20th century and galway should be proud of it's connection to him.

Pointless waste of money and overall stupid idea. Yeah, Communism was such an ace idea, just ask all the political prisoners in Cuba, or any of the people who REALLY DO risk their lives trying to get out of that **** hole.

old hippy

johngalway wrote: »

Pointless waste of money and overall stupid idea. Yeah, Communism was such an ace idea, just ask all the political prisoners in Cuba, or any of the people who REALLY DO risk their lives trying to get out of that **** hole.

And the Batista regime before that was all hunky dory, I guess?

Eramen

Why don't they erect a statue of Mr. Hitler? He is as deserving of a monument in Galway as Che tbh. Think about it.

Happy Monday

Seaneh wrote: »

The man is a mercenary who was directly involved in or ordered the murder and torture of thousands of people in several countries.

And why do the people of Florida who have voted for George Bush have a problem with this?
He authorised the illegal invasion of Iraq and the murder of thousands if innocents.

Eramen

KeithAFC wrote:

Amazing. A statue of a racist.

Yep, pretty much. Anyone who has read his own writings and Diaries has a glimpse into what he actually thought. Then again, people here seem to think Obama and the Democrats are not racist too Strange all considering.


“We’re going to do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the revolution. By which I mean: nothing.” -Che Guevera

“The black is indolent and lazy, and spends his money on frivolities, whereas the European is forward-looking, organized and intelligent.”- Che Guevara


Just the tip of the iceberg.

galwayrush

Eramen wrote: »

Why don't they erect a statue of Mr. Hitler? He is as deserving of a monument in Galway as Che tbh. Think about it.

Pol Pot is another, don't think he'll ever sell as many t-shirts though, guess his marketing team aren't up to scratch:pac:
William Joyce aka lord haw haw is another candidate, He was a catholic unionist, pro nazi Galwegian.

Happy Monday

galwayrush wrote: »

Pol Pot is another, don't think he'll ever sell as many t-shirts though, guess his marketing team aren't up to scratch:pac:
William Joyce aka lord haw haw is another candidate, He was a catholic unionist, pro nazi Galwegian.

Pol Pot and Batista were supported by the West so there wouldn't be any indignation from American shores were those statues to be erected. Hitler was also onside until he invaded Poland. His treatment of Jews to that point was of no concern to Western powers.

Eramen

galwayrush wrote: »

Pol Pot is another, don't think he'll ever sell as many t-shirts though, guess his marketing team aren't up to scratch:pac:
William Joyce aka lord haw haw is another candidate, He was a catholic unionist, pro nazi Galwegian.

At least he is a famous Galwegian.. but what the real problem is to me is that there are many, many genuine Irish heroes who have no monument, who are scantily remembered and have basically disappeared from public memory.

We should concentrate on building up a living-history once more, but instead councils and other public bodies dream up bullsh*ttery on a large scale up and down the country. My taxes spent on a Che statue.. ? Come on..

Nodin

Eramen wrote: »

Yep, pretty much. Anyone who has read his own writings and Diaries has a glimpse into what he actually thought. Then again, people here seem to think Obama and the Democrats are not racist too Strange all considering.


“We’re going to do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the revolution. By which I mean: nothing.” -Che Guevera

“The black is indolent and lazy, and spends his money on frivolities, whereas the European is forward-looking, organized and intelligent.”- Che Guevara


Just the tip of the iceberg.

...just the tip of the quote-mine more like it. That was written circa 1952 when he was 24. 13 years later he was fighting in the Congo for their indepencence. Peoples thoughts evolve. Well....some peoples.

...you know that Abraham Lincoln originally supported the idea of removing all blacks from the states?

jamezito

johngalway wrote: »

Pointless waste of money and overall stupid idea. Yeah, Communism was such an ace idea, just ask all the political prisoners in Cuba, or any of the people who REALLY DO risk their lives trying to get out of that **** hole.

Cuba a $5i* hole ? why don`t you actually research something before you show how ignorant you are...

1. Cuba has one of the BEST if not the best healthcare system and education system in the WORLD !

2. Education and Healthcare is FREE !

3. Cuba has more doctors volunteering all over the world than ANY other country.

4. Politicans are elected through local community meetings by the people.

5. The revolution started with 82 yes 82 people and wait for it...... 20 people survived and from those 20 people they managed to get 90% of the people behind them and get rid of the US/Batista regeime. you wanna know where batista went ? MIAMI !!! Where is the opposition comming from now ? MAIMI.

If cuba is such a s*** hole why did so many of the people get behind the revolution, eh ?

Listen man, why dont you go back to watchin sky news, reading your tabloids and and get on with your ignorance believing that you know it all and you are well informed about such things.

I genuinely feel sorry for people like yourself, it`s prob not all your fault but you really should make an effort to dig a little deeper and really get to know what really happened in history or current affairs and don`t just make stuff up that you think might have happened or repeat what you heard on the news or other media.

jamezito

Ha Ha ! didn`t even see it good one

jamezito

Eramen wrote: »

Yep, pretty much. Anyone who has read his own writings and Diaries has a glimpse into what he actually thought. Then again, people here seem to think Obama and the Democrats are not racist too Strange all considering.


“We’re going to do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the revolution. By which I mean: nothing.” -Che Guevera

“The black is indolent and lazy, and spends his money on frivolities, whereas the European is forward-looking, organized and intelligent.”- Che Guevara


Just the tip of the iceberg.

Man that is soo out of context. read a revolutionary life by john lee anderson. you people are fuc&*n crazy to think he was a racist ! HIS BEST FRIEND WAS BLACK and so too was most of the people he was fighting with

jamezito

jamezito wrote: »

Man that is soo out of context. read a revolutionary life by john lee anderson. you people are fuc&*n crazy to think he was a racist ! HIS BEST FRIEND WAS BLACK and so too was most of the people he was fighting with

heres a quick quote that che wrote about victor dreke cruz ( very black) ....
On their return to Cuba in November 1965, Che wrote of Dreke in his report to Fidel: "He was ... one of the pillars on which I relied. The only reason I am not recommending that he be promoted is that he already holds the highest rank."

take your skewed out of context carp and put it somewhere else cabron

DonkyPlonk

if you build it they will come!

Eramen

Nodin wrote: »

...just the tip of the quote-mine more like it. That was written circa 1952 when he was 24. 13 years later he was fighting in the Congo for their indepencence. Peoples thoughts evolve. Well....some peoples.

...you know that Abraham Lincoln originally supported the idea of removing all blacks from the states?

He actually made similar remarks up to 65-66 while in Africa.

Wear the T-shirt with pride Nodin!

jamezito

Eramen wrote: »

Hitler had loads of black, Arab and Jewish friends too.

are you really saying that che guevara was racist ?

Nodin

Eramen wrote: »

He actually made similar remarks up to 65-66 while in Africa.

Wear the T-shirt with pride Nodin!

O now I remember. You're the genius who says that anti-racism is the same as racism.

seachto7

What's worse is "Gawlway" trying to portray this leftie hippie liberal image of a town that's just so cool maaaaan. It's fake and put on, and most people you meet from there seem to try oh so hard to put on this "I am so flaky, and my time management is ****e, because, you know, I'm from Galway, and you know, I'm so liberal".

It's a graveyard of broken dreams........

Grayson

goose2005 wrote: »

Not really; both saw themselves as making a better world. That doesn't make their actions any more justifiable.

However, it's odd for the lefties to be praising a guy who was pretty much a racist and a homophobe.

How is he a racist when he's a caucasian, from a relatively wealthy background, who fought for the rights of hispanics in cuba and black people in africa?

Btw, I read a revolutionary life. I'd highly recommend it. He did some brutal things. Some can be justified as nessecary in fighting a war. They were no worse than the actions of any revolutionary, including our own.
Some went too far and i really can't bring myself to justify them.

But the ideal that he fought for was simple equality for all people. An end to poverty and an end to discrimination.
It's very different from Stalin or Hitler.

wp_rathead

seachto7 wrote: »

What's worse is "Gawlway" trying to portray this leftie hippie liberal image of a town that's just so cool maaaaan. It's fake and put on, and most people you meet from there seem to try oh so hard to put on this "I am so flaky, and my time management is ****e, because, you know, I'm from Galway, and you know, I'm so liberal".

It's a graveyard of broken dreams........

nah we are just better than rest of Ireland:cool:

galwayrush

seachto7 wrote: »

What's worse is "Gawlway" trying to portray this leftie hippie liberal image of a town that's just so cool maaaaan. It's fake and put on, and most people you meet from there seem to try oh so hard to put on this "I am so flaky, and my time management is ****e, because, you know, I'm from Galway, and you know, I'm so liberal".

It's a graveyard of broken dreams........

I'm here all my life, i've met very few people like that..

czx

old hippy wrote: »

And the Batista regime before that was all hunky dory, I guess?

Brilliant argument. Gloss over the present by referring to the past.

Rocketmann

I'm not even going to counter most of this twaddle. He didn't seek world domination or anihilation of a specific people or religion. He fought against the American puppet governments and the corporations that disenfranchised the indigenous populations of Latin America, something that they are still doing. He stood by his convictions rightly or wrongly and was murdered "without a proper trial", by the Bolivians/CIA/US army rangers whilst tied to a chair. But it seems that most legitimate governments are exempt from being branded murderers if they exact the same fate on their enemies.

It wasn't that long ago that a certain politician was lauded in Ireland, treated like one of their own, a superstar, who has countless lives and buckets of blood on his resume. Drone attacks on sovereign nations, his troops acquitted of mass killings and his corporations getting richer because of it. Che died years ago, you'd think these people would have bigger fish to fry.