Can Garda order for dogs to be put down ?

sheeper

Majority of farmers would carry insurance for accident or stock breaking out but insurance against stock being worried is extra !

Discodog

foxer3640 wrote: »

There was an article in yesterdays farming independant that would make interesting reading for some of the people on here that dont seem to understand what dogs can do to sheep. A farmer in co Laois lost 17 lambs in a dog attack. He lost 4 the first night, 10 the second night and 3 died later.

If you lost 4 Lambs to dogs surely you would keep watch the following night

_Lady_

doctor evil wrote: »

Sheep can die after the attack from shock or they can loose their lambs if preggers.

Personally (not aimed at you!), I think it is the height of arrogance and the lowest of ignorance to be so dismissive about someone elses bread and butter in favour of a pet that an owner has not been in control of.

If accidents happen take the fall.

Ok I defo agree with that even though it kills me to say it because of the heartbreak involved if, for example, my headless chicken of a pup got out and ended up getting shot.

But it does seem a bit cruel to me that many of the farmers on here were saying that if they saw a dog anywhere near their flock they would have them shot straight away without trying to do anything else to deter them - even if they could see a collar/dogtag on them from a distance. That's my issue. If it's a case of repeat offenders then I completely understand but taking a shotgun to them without even checking/trying??

I know it's an emotional view to take of a commercial/livestock decision - but at the end of the day it's reality. The dog is dead (when shooting into the air could possibly have startled him away - I'm sure most pet dogs aren't accustomed to hearing gunfire!) and while sheep could die of the shock a little later, how do you know for sure that the dog deserved to die when he doesn't have a dead sheep hanging from his mouth - or even moreso, was only "about to worry the livestock" ?

I know most farmers despite the fact that they slaughter their animals - do actually have a grá for them while they're rearing them but business is business - that's the world today. That's why I was wondering if it was a load of macho "I'll shoot him for sure" talk or if they really are that harsh? There's one guy who is local to me and is renowned for shooting dogs on his land no matter what. But there are plenty of other farmers who have returned dogs to people locally with serious warnings when accidents have happened. I don't know the ins and outs of the cases but it seems like a reasonable thing to do if serious damage/death of livestock hasn't already occurred?

Perhaps the fence is not a fashionable place to sit on this topic

micropig

ISDW wrote: »

And any insurance that the dog owner has, for 3rd party liability, doesn't cover animal worrying, so the money has to come straight out of the dog owner's pocket.

Then the dog owner must keep the dog under control if they do not have the money to cover damages that their dog might cause - Called being a responsible pet owner

Discodog wrote: »

If you lost 4 Lambs to dogs surely you would keep watch the following night

Farmers are supposed to stay up 24/7, after working all day because of irresponsible dog owners? I suppose they should have hired Padraig Nally in?

Many posters here have shouted shout how terrible it is to kill a dog worrying sheep while at the same time ignoring their responsibility as a pet owner or suggesting the dogs life should be spared, over the sheep/lambs.

The pet is the pet owners responsibility.


The sheep and lambs are the farmers livelyhood. They pay for the land. What gives dog owners the right to have an uncontrolled dog on their land and then suggest farmers take the hit if the dog attacks/worries the sheep.

Simples....Keep your dog under control

chris_ie

From what I've read on this thread I don't think anyone is saying that dogs life should always be spared.

Someone had mentioned (or hinted) that they would kill a dog after the damage was done.

The way I see it, if the dog is approaching the sheep yet not close enough to be worrying them just yet then try a warning shot to scare the dog, then warn the owner. If the dog is at the sheep, attacking them or causing alot of distress then the dog could be shot, after all the farmer is protecting his sheep. If a dog is found coming away from the sheep (no longer causing distress) then I don't think the dog should be shot, yes damage has been done and you may think that the dog will do it again but in that case would you go round shooting all the dogs in the area that may possibly do it?

micropig

chris_ie wrote: »

From what I've read on this thread I don't think anyone is saying that dogs life should always be spared.

Someone had mentioned (or hinted) that they would kill a dog after the damage was done.

The way I see it, if the dog is approaching the sheep yet not close enough to be worrying them just yet then try a warning shot to scare the dog, then warn the owner. If the dog is at the sheep, attacking them or causing alot of distress then the dog could be shot, after all the farmer is protecting his sheep. If a dog is found coming away from the sheep (no longer causing distress) then I don't think the dog should be shot, yes damage has been done and you may think that the dog will do it again but in that case would you go round shooting all the dogs in the area that may possibly do it?

If the dog is approaching the sheep, most farmers will fire a warning shot first. Do you suggest if the owner is not in the vicinity, the farmer leaves the scene to try and track them down. Things like this happen/go out of control very fast. If the owner is not present what other option does the farmer have? He can't stand by and just watch the situation develop.


If the dog is coming away from dead/injured sheep and it is obvious they have attacked them. If the farmer is able to find them, then it is up to the owner to fully compensate the farmer and the owner prosecuted for not having the animal under control. The dog should be removed from the owner, as they have proven themselves irresponsible owners.

chris_ie

micropig wrote: »

If the dog is approaching the sheep, most farmers will fire a warning shot first. Do you suggest if the owner is not in the vicinity, the farmer leaves the scene to try and track them down. Things like this happen/go out of control very fast. If the owner is not present what other option does the farmer have? He can't stand by and just watch the situation develop.


If the dog is coming away from dead/injured sheep and it is obvious they have attacked them. If the farmer is able to find them, then it is up to the owner to fully compensate the farmer and the owner prosecuted for not having the animal under control. The dog should be removed from the owner, as they have proven themselves irresponsible owners.

If the farmer fires a warning shot it could prevent the dog going at the sheep. The farmer may know the owners so can contact them regarding the incident. You are slightly contradicting yourself. You are saying that the farmer shouldn't leave he scene but in a previous post said that "Farmers are supposed to stay up 24/7, after working all day because of irresponsible dog owners?". Obviously if the warning shot fails and the dog is still going towards the sheep then the dog could be shot. Do you really think I meant that the farmer fires a warning shot then just leaves, irrespective of whether the warning shot worked?...

I never said that the dogs owners shouldn't compensate the farmer. They should. What I said was that the dog shouldn't be shot after the event has occurred and when leaving, its too late to prevent the incident. And yes the owners have proven to be irresponsible but accidents do happen. You can have owners that are very responsible and the dog just happens to escape once. If its a regular occurrence then the owners haven't a leg to stand on.

Evac101

Discodog wrote: »

If you lost 4 Lambs to dogs surely you would keep watch the following night

Late to the party here but....

Grew up in Waterford, not primarily sheep farmer country, but plenty of them about. Some of them our neighbours so knew them and their circumstances more or less. Lambing season results in farmers (typically) getting 3-4 hours of sleep per night, for a number of weeks. It's a grind that saps the spirit and causes stress on a level most of us (thankfully) won't experience for up to a month contiguously per annum. Each lamb is worth between €250-500 depending on breed in the more commonly raised types so a loss of 17 is, at minimum, a whole heck of a lot of money. Before anyone even thinks it, the majority of farmers can't take that kind of a financial hit well, things have gotten so bad for farming in general in this country that about 30% of small holders have part time jobs.

Sheep are a skittish and ridiculous breed, seriously. They're prone to panic and fright. They also (and they're cunning this way) seem to develop long term reactions to panic and fright, dropping weight, becoming even more nervous, miscarrying, etc. I've seen (multiple) sheep run off a 12" sheer drop in fright after a balloon popped near to them. They had already been made nervous by something else I have to say but the ultimate 'trigger' for their short run was the balloon popping. I have to imagine that a farmer firing even a warning shot to scare away dogs 'worrying' rather then attacking them can have serious consequences without a bite ever being taken. We could, of course, say that given their temperament that sheep are problems just waiting to happen but, in the end, unsupervised dogs shouldn't ever be in a position to bother them anyway. The consequences, if that is the situation, are on the owners head, not the farmers.

I'm not advocating a blanket behaviour of 'shoot the dog' I'm eager to point out, I'm just saying that it seems that the debate in this forum seems somewhat lopsided in the favour of our furry friends at times and that, as long as we wish to bring them into our society, we need to operate within the mores of that society, in consideration of other members rights and well-being.

gud4u

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/farmers-will-take-action-over-attacks-3068575.html

The recent article talked abouit in another post foxer3640.

Bearing in mind you have to get close to a dog to protect with a shotgun, so if a dogtag/collar was available you could see it.

I think there's just too much involved to try and save the dog as well, I think farmers have enough to contend with, without having to consider the welfare of stray dogs.

I have four dogs, if they escape and it's a mistake, and nobodies fault...yadayada....if they get killed, I am the only one to blame.

Not the dog, not the farmer, not the sheep.

ISDW

micropig wrote: »

Then the dog owner must keep the dog under control if they do not have the money to cover damages that their dog might cause - Called being a responsible pet owner

Most definitely, if you read my posts, you won't see me say anything different.