Ever hear of Joseph Kony??

Loomis

sup_dude wrote: »

That's just awful... I couldn't read any further that this..



I could go on and on about the faults in that blog because most paragraphs are arguable but I won't, it will take too long

The fact very little of the money goes directly to the aims of the organisation and the issue about the Ugandan army don't bother you?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

sup_dude wrote: »

That's just awful... I couldn't read any further that this..



I could go on and on about the faults in that blog because most paragraphs are arguable but I won't, it will take too long

feel like quoting the rest of that quote?

As Christ Blattman, a political scientist at Yale, writes on the topic of IC’s programming, “There’s also something inherently misleading, naive, maybe even dangerous, about the idea of rescuing children or saving of Africa. […] It hints uncomfortably of the White Man’s Burden. Worse, sometimes it does more than hint. The savior attitude is pervasive in advocacy, and it inevitably shapes programming. Usually misconceived programming.”

Ave Sodalis

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

The fact very little of the money goes directly to the aims of the organisation and the issue about the Ugandan army don't bother you?

The rest went to:
Staff Salaries; big organisation, many would work full time at it and have no other source of income. They need to be supported somehow too.

Travel and Transport; They don't get to Africa by teleporting quite yet. I would imagine that they do a few talks in various countries too.

Film production; Exactly like the video. This raising awareness and is advertising. This part, I would consider, to be quite important as it would also document the whole experience.

As for the arms, I really don't think a man such as Kony will listen to someone asking him nicely to stop nor will he just stand there and let them arrest him... but I could be wrong...

Celly Smunt

Although i don't quite agree with all the charities work,people Judging them must take into account their aim.

Their aim is to raise awareness,advertising isn't cheap.

wes

Heard about him and the LRA a few years ago. Kony and his organisation are certainly a dangerous and vile group imho.

questforfit

I have a number of problems with that film.

Kony is a bad man but hes no worse than the Ugandan army who have recruited soldiers as young as 13. The 30,000 child soldier figure is also completely inflated.

Furthermore, Kony is fighting Muslim groups in Sudan. That is probably why hes not languishing in a jail right now.

Celly Smunt

questforfit wrote: »

Furthermore, Kony is fighting Muslim groups in Sudan. That is probably why hes not languishing in a jail right now.

On the contrary,It's in Saudi's interests to keep the muslims in Sudan happy,and it's in america's Interests to keep saudi happy.

questforfit

On the contrary, the groups in Sudan are groups who are calling for the Al-Saud family to be removed from power. The last thing they want is those groups gaining influence

Ave Sodalis

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

feel like quoting the rest of that quote?

The White Man's Burden is speaking of wars such as in Iraq etc which weren't wanted in the first place. If you watch the video, even the part about Jacob, how can you say that they don't want protecting, they don't want rid of Kony?
Where in history has there been military action which the mass population actually want like this one? It doesn't have to be brutal with technology.

''The savior attitude''? Why does doing something right have to sound so condescending? I mean, we're all people, all humans and as the video says, it wouldn't happen in a rich country. Why are we letting it happen in Africa?

Loomis

sup_dude wrote: »

The rest went to:
Staff Salaries; big organisation, many would work full time at it and have no other source of income. They need to be supported somehow too.

Travel and Transport; They don't get to Africa by teleporting quite yet. I would imagine that they do a few talks in various countries too.

Film production; Exactly like the video. This raising awareness and is advertising. This part, I would consider, to be quite important as it would also document the whole experience.

As for the arms, I really don't think a man such as Kony will listen to someone asking him nicely to stop nor will he just stand there and let them arrest him... but I could be wrong...

8.6 million is a lot of money. 32% seems like a small amount being used. I think that's a reasonable criticism.
I wasn't aware teleportation wasn't possible. Thanks for clarifying.

The point about the army was more about them raping and looting in the same was Kony does. Maybe that wasn't clear.

Ave Sodalis

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

The point about the army was more about them raping and looting in the same was Kony does. Maybe that wasn't clear.

That would be the Ugandan arm, which are the only thing VC has right now... which is kinda the point of the video. They're trying to get American and other influences...

Loomis

sup_dude wrote: »

That would be the Ugandan arm, which are the only thing VC has right now... which is kinda the point of the video. They're trying to get American and other influences...

They fund and defend the Ugandan army knowing what they do. Again, a legitimate criticism.

Ave Sodalis

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

They fund and defend the Ugandan army knowing what they do. Again, a legitimate criticism.

Perhaps then, if you have a better idea, you should get in contact with them.

Look, I'm not saying they do everything perfectly, but they are doing something and that something is right, which is more than what can be said for a lot of people

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

the white mans burden is the white mans responsibility to save the 'lower' races from themselves and rule over them as the superior pale skinned race that just knows how to do everything right. Africa, the middle east, Asia.. it's our duty to make sure they're all ok, because they can't do it themselves.

The facts that Joseph Kony is black and based in Uganda are utterly irrelevant.

Helix

the Kony thing has me torn tbh. obviously the crap he gets up to is completely unacceptable, but i also believe that it's unacceptable for the likes of america to play world police

madcabbage

Helix wrote: »

the Kony thing has me torn tbh. obviously the crap he gets up to is completely unacceptable, but i also believe that it's unacceptable for the likes of america to play world police

This isnt about America being world police. Who else has done anything so far? America only got involved from public pressure.

Helix

madcabbage wrote: »

This isnt about America being world police. Who else has done anything so far? America only got involved from public pressure.

i said the likes of america. to be honest im uncomfortable with any country enforcing their own laws and principles upon another. if the ugandan government comes out and asks for international help on the matter then grand, but regardless of how good a reason anyone has, i dont think it's right that countries decide that this is their business for them to get involved with

johnny-fatality

I'm not sure about Boards.ie copyright rules - I've pulled from some online blogs and referenced accordingly - not sure if this is allowed? Anyway..

I only saw this today, so won't claim to know much about it.

I watched the video, and felt sick at it, like everyone else.

However, while I was quite sympathetic to the cause, something about the organisation bothered me - I think it's because I found the presentation (crowds of people with peace signs, yer man's child, slow mo-hugging etc) quite cheesy.
(reminded me of this actually - http://bit.ly/xE9U5r [Billy talent - red flag])

Anyway, I had a quick look around the web and came across some of the criticisms -

-The view of the situation is over simplified and doesn't give context.
-People say 'at least they're doing something' : this undermines the efforts of other organisations in Uganda whose cause IC is undermining through lobbying for armed intervention in an unstable region.
-The children are brothers, sisters, daughters, sons - not invisible, except to the west, who now try and force their way in. Measured help is one thing, large scale interruption to a problem that denies Uganda's agency to solve themselves.

On the whole, I think that although the campaign may be brash and populist, instead of contextualised and measured, 'raising awareness' is cliché but relevant - Like other issues (eg Aids, cancer etc etc) raising awareness and the subsequent discussion is the main step in promoting solutions, or at least formulating rational approaches towards solutions. In discussing Uganda and Kony, more exposure will be given to the African topic (and there are similar issues elsewhere there obviously) which is definitely a good thing. What IC is doing, is not necessarily the right means of it though.

Also, I don't mind the low figure for funds. Obviously these campaigns need a lot of money for media etc. I would be annoyed if the CEO's etc were getting mammoth salaries though.
Edit - just saw a comment that said: ''slick in its production (using great talent that was donated, therefore done for free!!)'' which makes me wonder where they money went to.

Sorry for long post.

http://bit.ly/AFpRj2 ---'Unmuted' Blogspot account

http://ind.pn/xtaiMH - blog by Musa Okwonga

twitter feed of Laura Seay (african pol sci researcher) --- http://bit.ly/zkJhJG

Ave Sodalis

Helix wrote: »

i said the likes of america. to be honest im uncomfortable with any country enforcing their own laws and principles upon another. if the ugandan government comes out and asks for international help on the matter then grand, but regardless of how good a reason anyone has, i dont think it's right that countries decide that this is their business for them to get involved with

I think when the people of that country are living in fear (genuinely) and other countries have a power to stop that without gain for themselves, something should be done for the sake of humanity.

I do agree with you in most cases though when countries go in where they aren't wanted to improve something that isn't seen to be broken

Stompbox

Sindri wrote: »

There's Kony 2012 spam everywhere.


It's really annoying and disingenuous.

Cynicism is the ugliest of vices.

Helix

sup_dude wrote: »

I think when the people of that country are living in fear (genuinely) and other countries have a power to stop that without gain for themselves, something should be done for the sake of humanity

if it were possible to have a clearly defined line on that, then id agree, but if you start doing "things for humanity" thing all of a sudden agendas come into it. the yanks are doing what they think is right "for humanity" while muslims, to use a stereotypical example, would have the very opposite opinion

RichieC

Rush "the human swine" Limbaugh is losing his **** because Obama sent 100 troops to help hose this animal. But, their CHRISTIANS!11

http://i.imgur.com/qWCmo.jpg

Jaafa

Support raising awareness about Kony, don't support KONY 2012.

KONY 2012 is in favor of arming, funding and training the Ugandan military. 3 major problems with this.

1. Kony hasn't been in Uganda since 2006,even invisible children admit this. The Ugandan military can't do anything about him.

2. The Ugandan military is accused of rape and looting. Latest accusations come just 5 days ago.

3.Even if the above points were not there, to capture or kill Kony you have to launch a military operation against him. That means attacking and killing many in his army of children.

Just to stress, I'm in favor of stopping this man, but not with the method KONY 2012 wants to employ.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

RichieC wrote: »

Rush "the human swine" Limbaugh is losing his **** because Obama sent 100 troops to help hose this animal. But, their CHRISTIANS!11

http://i.imgur.com/qWCmo.jpg

Is that right? The Lord's Resistance Army is being accused of really bad stuff? Child kidnapping, torture, murder, that kind of stuff? Well, we just found out about this today. We're gonna do, of course, our due diligence research on it. But nevertheless we got a hundred troops being sent over there to fight these guys -- and they claim to be Christians.

the only thing limbaugh was guilty of was being clueless about what the LRA actually was. his surprise that christians could be guilty of inhumane acts is worth commenting on, but then again you also have people in this country applauding the decision to build a monument to che guevara so some phrase about people in glass houses comes to mind.

Morag

http://whitthef.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/kony-2012/

Of the money that gets made by Invisible Children only 31% goes on their charity work and the rest on film making, though the charity has never been audited so we assume. But this 31% of your money, that you either directly give to them or help them raise through sharing their video, goes on things like funding Uganda’s military and the Sudan People’s Liberation Army. Both forces have been associated with despicable acts such as using rape as a weapon of war.

Photograph of the founders of Invisible Children posing with members of the SPLA.

Do you really want to fund this? If so then share the video to your hearts content and be glad when the violence continues and more children die. Seriously, how do you expect to take military action, which Invisible Children support, against a person who uses children as soldiers without killing children? What do you think will happen when military action is taken? Do you not think that there will be more reprisals and bloodshed?

All the while that you are sharing this video, changing your Facebook status or photograph and tweeting about this far and wide you are promoting a wrong headed initiative that supports a most brutal regime, one that tortures prisoners and has sought to condemn homosexuals to death for simply loving people of the same sex, which can only make matters worse in the region. We need to support people when they seek to better their living conditions, when they seek to put an end to murderous scum like Joseph Kony and Yoweri Museveni. What we must not do is support, probably well meaning, rich Westerners flying around the world trying to solve the problems of poor old Africa.

Some more on the story and on Invisible Children can be found at the following blogs.

http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com.nyud.net/

http://www.wrongingrights.com/2009/03/worst-idea-ever.html

http://ilto.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/the-visible-problem-with-invisible-children/

America sent in 100 "advisers" Basically CIA and SOG teams.

Turns out Uganda has oil reserves no less than 2.5 billion barrels.


Don't want to sound cynical here but given America's track record in killing people for oil, its hard not to be.




Further reading: http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com.nyud.net/

amacachi

Don't want to sound cynical here but given America's track record in killing people for oil, its hard not to be.

It's not the oil, it's the cobalt they're after.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

cobalt invented gayness?

amacachi

Exactly.

dfx-

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

the power of social media would bew amazing if anything were actually done about this

you'll all have forgotten about kony by this time next week and even if america did decide to invade and put him on trial/kill him you'd all be out protesting against us imperialism

le shrug

Interview in 2007 with Unicef at a camp trying to rehabilitate his victims. He's been at it for a lot longer than Facebook or boards and probably will be longer than facebook will be around..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz2GXyrED3c

1.7m through the camps then according to that:eek:

WindSock

Uganda, eh? Send in an army of poo poo eaters to flush him out in disgust. Not a drop of blood shed!

Gummy Panda

Didn't we contribute to a Uganda aid program and their government used some of the money to buy a fighter jet for naval warfare? Which makes sense since Uganda is land locked.

No way will I help fund their army

Duggy747

I know of Kony and his shenanigens in Uganda but I haven't watched the video yet. I've seen it plastered around Facebook where my stomach churns when I see some people fire up their part-time activism again. "Go social media. Fight the power!!"................for fùck sake.

I guess it's good to get people's attention of Kony / Uganda, be it of a 30 minute viral video to finally care what goes on down in Africa beyond "Sure, it's full of hungry people"...........though knowing some it'll be forgotten about fairly quickly.

Intentions are probably good, but I'm wary of IC's methods for solving things like armed intervention and high support for the military.

JCDUB

Some perspective:

The number of Kony's victims according to this campaign: 30,000

People living with HIV/AIDS in Uganda: 1.2m

Children orphaned by HIV/AIDS in Uganda: 1.2m

I know where I'll be donating.

CrazyRabbit

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Anybody got a tl:dw version of the video? Not really arsed committing half an hour to watch it.

Some asshole causing terror in multiple adjacent countries. He has no agenda or goal other than to simply keep himself in power.

He has abducted 30,000+ children. All of the girls are kept as sex slaves and 'wives' for this soldiers. All of the boys are forced to join his army and then mutilate, torture and kill the 'enemy'. Any who disobey are killed.

And he's being doing this for 20 years.

Take the time to watch the video....it's really worth it.

Cardinal Richelieu

Kony has been around years and covered in most of the reputable media extensively, I am amazed frankly at the level ignorance of the Twitter and Facebook generation about this guy and his crimes. Its like they are the first to uncover his crimes and must tell the rest of the world to stop him.

Adamisconfused

Sharrow wrote: »

http://whitthef.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/kony-2012/

I wonder if that is true that they're actually funding the Ugandan army, a country that has the same "President" for twenty six years, with the latest election results being disputed by the EU.

It only takes a cursory search to find multiple reports about the alleged, and not so alleged, atrocities committed by Ugandan forces.

Supporting one side over the other is certainly a murky decision to make and not as clear-cut as that video makes out. I wouldn't want my money funding the lesser of two evils as it is still supporting some form of evil at the end of the day.

Dudess

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

the power of social media would bew amazing if anything were actually done about this

you'll all have forgotten about kony by this time next week and even if america did decide to invade and put him on trial/kill him you'd all be out protesting against us imperialism

le shrug

While I don't agree with the "you all" stuff - logically that would include you - I agree that there's such a double standard all right.

Saw a piece on this guy on Geldof In Africa a few years back - terrifying stuff.

Jaafa

Adamisconfused wrote: »

I wonder if that is true that they're actually funding the Ugandan army, a country that has the same "President" for twenty six years, with the latest election results being disputed by the EU.

It only takes a cursory search to find multiple reports about the alleged, and not so alleged, atrocities committed by Ugandan forces.

Supporting one side over the other is certainly a murky decision to make and not as clear-cut as that video makes out. I wouldn't want my money funding the lesser of two evils as it is still supporting some form of evil at the end of the day.

Well partly thanks to their lobbying, 100 US advisers were sent to Uganda to help train and arm the military there.

Shanotheslayer

Only heard of this today. Very shocking.

In work, we're only allowed wear black T shirts with no brand names or writing.

Going to go in and ask them can we wear a black T shirt with 'Kony 2012' on it, to spread the word about it.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

to spread the word about arming the ugandan army to wage a war outside its borders?

danslevent

This is from 2006

http://ilto.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/the-visible-problem-with-invisible-children/

cloptrop

I have no intention of watchi ng a 30 min video to be told to hate someone. I could hate them in 2 sentences though if someone summarized it .

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

child soldiers
child "brides"

df1985

Absolutely disgusting what hes done, no argument there, but surely Africa in general has far bigger issues than this-HIV being number one.

Call me a cynic but I think this will be forgotten about in no time. from what i see on facebbok people are geting sucked into the hype, will share the video but will do absolutely nothing else.

Id be gladly proved wrong and if it does work hopefully similar campaigns are started for other issues.

joolsveer

This site seems to give a different story than the video. I would like to gather as much information as I can about this campaign before making up my mind if I should support it.

http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/post/18890947431/we-got-trouble

cloptrop

So he is some ugandan leader using child soilders and dabblling in a bit of paedophilia, can I vote at their next general election , if so I will vote against him , but something tells me there is very little I can do.

Herb Powell

I find it hilarious that "Stop at nothing" has become their motto, when they're stopping at the easiest part.

WatchWolf

cloptrop wrote: »

I have no intention of watchi ng a 30 min video to be told to hate someone. I could hate them in 2 sentences though if someone summarized it .

It isn't necessarily telling you to hate him, it's more suggesting things that you can do to help stop his reign.

God...

Herb Powell wrote: »

I find it hilarious that "Stop at nothing" has become their motto, when they're stopping at the easiest part.

Sorry I might be brain farting but what do you mean???