Landlord coming to stay without permission

daltonmd

RoverJames wrote: »

You should pay the last months rent, end of story. all of your problems are stemming from this I expect. Folks are making out the landlord to be some sort of nutter, the chap just wants his rent which he is entitled to.

You are also entitled to your deposit, withholding the rent in lieu of the deposit is simply not on.

If a non registered, non tax paying landlord has blatantly disregarded the rules and regulations regarding a tenancy, then he may not demand that the tenant abide to the same rules and regulations.

He holds no high moral ground.

No matter what the situation is - no landlord has a right to bully, threaten and harass a tenant.

Victor

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Also, got text hinting at threats to myself should I not pay the last months rent.

Keep all texts. If possible, download them to a computer / include them in an e-mail to yourself.

gurramok

Threats from no matter what source, go straight to your Garda station now. Texts are evidence, do not delete them from your phone but I do believe mobile companies can provide evidence in any court case if it came to the worst.

Builderfromhell

This thread seems to have generated much interest so i thought I'd keep those interested up to date.

Community welfare Officer rang me today and told me that as they are paying me rent allowance every week and I have witheld last months rent in lieu of getting deposit back they have to cancel rent allowance and I have to pay back rent paid for this month.
I explained to CWO why I had reason to believe landlord who owes money here and has absconded to the UK is unlikely to pay deposit back.
I also pointed out that I need the deposit back in order to be able to pay deposit on new house. CWO told me they can pay the deposit but I need to pay the months rent irrespective of whether I am likely to get deposit back.

So, my thinking is the bullying and harrasment has worked.

The landlord gets his last months rent and gets to keep the deposit.
The tax payer pays my deposit for my next house.

I have already reported landlord to PRTP but will not report to other government agencies (polluting septic tank, revenue, et.).
Have to report texts and email to local gardai in case anything still happens.

tara73

Builderfromhell wrote: »

This thread seems to have generated much interest so i thought I'd keep those interested up to date.

Community welfare Officer rang me today and told me that as they are paying me rent allowance every week and I have witheld last months rent in lieu of getting deposit back they have to cancel rent allowance and I have to pay back rent paid for this month.
I explained to CWO why I had reason to believe landlord who owes money here and has absconded to the UK is unlikely to pay deposit back.
I also pointed out that I need the deposit back in order to be able to pay deposit on new house. CWO told me they can pay the deposit but I need to pay the months rent irrespective of whether I am likely to get deposit back.

So, my thinking is the bullying and harrasment has worked.

The landlord gets his last months rent and gets to keep the deposit.
The tax payer pays my deposit for my next house.

I have already reported landlord to PRTP but will not report to other government agencies (polluting septic tank, revenue, et.).
Have to report texts and email to local gardai in case anything still happens.

how come the cwo is reacting to a guy calling them about the issue????? I always read here and also thought it's illegal for the cwo to listen and especially acting to a guy who's calling via phone about a rent allowance candidat.
how do they know he's right and it's the landlord and not a random guy anyway???

ProudDUB

Was thinking the very same thing. I thought that there were all kinds of data protection rules/laws in places where CWO's and Dept of SW workers in general will only speak to the claimant in question, & not a third party even though he may have a valid interest in what is going on. There are loads of posts on here from landlords who have RSA tenants who are out rent because is a problem with the RSA payments to the tenants. They are at their wits end coz when they call up to see what is going on, the CWO's refuse to talk to them about their tenant, stating data protection laws.

I call the Dept of SW quite often on behalf of 2 family members who are incapacitated. They can't call themselves. The amount of hoops that I have to jump through to get to talk to someone (even when I have my relations sitting beside me & available via speaker phone) is unreal. If I was the OP, I'd be wanting to talk to the CWO's supervisor. I would be raising all kinds of hell as to their letting this cowboy dictate to them things that will impact your life. That is bull$hit imo.

Victor

ProudDUB wrote: »

Was thinking the very same thing. I thought that there were all kinds of data protection rules/laws in places where CWO's and Dept of SW workers in general will only speak to the claimant in question, & not a third party even though he may have a valid interest in what is going on. There are loads of posts on here from landlords who have RSA tenants who are out rent because is a problem with the RSA payments to the tenants. They are at their wits end coz when they call up to see what is going on, the CWO's refuse to talk to them about their tenant, stating data protection laws.

There is a difference between the CWO receiving information and acting on it and the CWO giving information to a landlord.

Builderfromhell

Just to clarify.
In the first instance the CWO stopped the rent allowance based on complaint from landlord.
In the second instance the CWO rang me asking what the story was. I told him that I was witholding rent in lieu of deposit which I had every reason to believe I wasn't going to get paid. So, based on my information the CWO said he could not continue to pay RA to me if I was not paying LL. The deposit was not his concern.
It was only when I told him that I needed the deposit back in order to pay for the new house that he suggested the HSE would pay the deposit as I had never asked for a deposit from them before.

The CWO did tell me that if I left this house with rent owed, even if deposit was kept by LL, then no RA would be paid to me for new house.

I will now pay the last months rent and have no expectation of getting deposit back. The LL will have enough strife trying to get a new tenant.

In the interest of justice no RA should be paid to any tenant of this house until the LL has paid back the deposit. I read that 'Threshold' have been trying to get deposit paid to an independent body by tenants and paid back to tenants less any deductions for damages etc. at end on tenancy.m seems an admirable idea.

Bigcheeze

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I read that 'Threshold' have been trying to get deposit paid to an independent body by tenants and paid back to tenants less any deductions for damages etc. at end on tenancy.m seems an admirable idea.

Exactly, it should never be in the hands of landlord as it's not their money. It's in the interests of tenants and the good landlords to have this system.

Builderfromhell

Landlord rang me twice late last night. Didn't answer call as I prefer written texts and emails in case I need legal proof in future.

Landlord has threatened to alert new landlord that I am a problem tenant so that I will not be accepted as a tenant.

I wonder is there any legal action I can take against him for this harassment even though he lives in the UK.

Have already decided that I have to pay rent or CWO will not pay any more rent allowance. CWO will pay new deposit.

Don't expect deposit back from landlord and am not inclined to deep clean the place as I did in my last place. I'll just tidy it up as normal.

PS ; House didn't come with bin as LL used to burn his rubbish in back garden. Maybe I should leave my rubbish in back garden now ratehr than burn it.

zef

Hi OP ,
Does your current LL know your future LL?
It's a pity it has to work out the way it does, but if you play it by the book looks like the cwo will give you a new deposit.
Yes its unfortunate your current LL gets to keep it, if indeed he does in the end.
If it were me, I'd give the place a good clean, just so you can leave with a guiltless conscience. Give him nothing to talk about. Good luck.

Victor

Builderfromhell wrote: »

PS ; House didn't come with bin as LL used to burn his rubbish in back garden. Maybe I should leave my rubbish in back garden now ratehr than burn it.

Remember you are better than him.

Make sure to take photos as you leave.

WoollyRedHat

The guy sounds like a little ****, and is trying to intimidate you becaue he thinks he will get away with it. If I were you, I'd beat him at his own game and report all this to whoever regulates landlords in the coutnry. Don't mention this to him though obviously. Furthermore, try and ignore all contact with him as much as possible and when you get the chance, block his number

I don't see how he will warn future landlords about you, unless you tell him, so don't listen to his crap, he seems like a very petty and beligerent individual.

odds_on

Victor wrote: »

Remember you are better than him.

Make sure to take photos as you leave.

I agree with Victor. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Leave the property as clean as you can. Pay the rent up to date. If the landlord with-holds your deposit and you feel it is unjustified (I can't remember if there is mention of a detailed entry inventory), you can bring a claim to the PRTB for the with-holding of the deposit; you can also claim for damages such as stress, inconvenience, upset, anxiety etc. in relation to a with-held deposit.

However, if you have not kept to the letter of the law, this can be held against you.

CricketDude

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Just to clarify.
In the first instance the CWO stopped the rent allowance based on complaint from landlord.
In the second instance the CWO rang me asking what the story was. I told him that I was witholding rent in lieu of deposit which I had every reason to believe I wasn't going to get paid. So, based on my information the CWO said he could not continue to pay RA to me if I was not paying LL. The deposit was not his concern.
It was only when I told him that I needed the deposit back in order to pay for the new house that he suggested the HSE would pay the deposit as I had never asked for a deposit from them before.

The CWO did tell me that if I left this house with rent owed, even if deposit was kept by LL, then no RA would be paid to me for new house.

I will now pay the last months rent and have no expectation of getting deposit back. The LL will have enough strife trying to get a new tenant.

In the interest of justice no RA should be paid to any tenant of this house until the LL has paid back the deposit. I read that 'Threshold' have been trying to get deposit paid to an independent body by tenants and paid back to tenants less any deductions for damages etc. at end on tenancy.m seems an admirable idea.

Dont take the CWOs word that they'll give you the deposit for your next place. They are notorious for promising things to get rid of you and then saying something like "Im not allowed by my superiors to give that to you now."

Builderfromhell

Landlord sent me email telling me he is coming in two weeks.
I replied telling him that I have sought legal advice.

Plan to have moved by the time he gets here but not looking forward to him arriving while I am doing last minute cleaning.

If I were him I'd arrive a week later and avoid a possible confrontation.

Will likely have people helping me move and clean up so they will act as witnesses to any unfortunate events.

Zamboni

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Landlord sent me email telling me he is coming in two weeks.
I replied telling him that I have sought legal advice.

Plan to have moved by the time he gets here but not looking forward to him arriving while I am doing last minute cleaning.

If I were him I'd arrive a week later and avoid a possible confrontation.

Will likely have people helping me move and clean up so they will act as witnesses to any unfortunate events.

Did you pay him the last months rent yet as instructed by your CWO?

daltonmd

Builderfromhell wrote: »

This thread seems to have generated much interest so i thought I'd keep those interested up to date.

Community welfare Officer rang me today and told me that as they are paying me rent allowance every week and I have witheld last months rent in lieu of getting deposit back they have to cancel rent allowance and I have to pay back rent paid for this month.
I explained to CWO why I had reason to believe landlord who owes money here and has absconded to the UK is unlikely to pay deposit back.
I also pointed out that I need the deposit back in order to be able to pay deposit on new house. CWO told me they can pay the deposit but I need to pay the months rent irrespective of whether I am likely to get deposit back.

So, my thinking is the bullying and harrasment has worked.

The landlord gets his last months rent and gets to keep the deposit.
The tax payer pays my deposit for my next house.

I have already reported landlord to PRTP but will not report to other government agencies (polluting septic tank, revenue, et.).
Have to report texts and email to local gardai in case anything still happens.

He may have won in the short term but he is on a short repreive - you will get the deposit from the CWO, you didn't pay the last months rent, so this can be the months rent in advance, so the reality is you are not losing out financially, stresswise - well that's another matter altogether.

Try to look for something on RAS; Make sure you dot the I's and X the T's on your next rental - everything is great going into a rental , not so good when you are coming out!!

Best of luck with everything and thanks for keeping is updated. Much appreciated.

BostonB

Builderfromhell wrote: »

...The simplest solution seemed to be to withold the last months rent....

Thats not legal though which is why the CWO couldn't go along with it. I also probably breaks the conditions of the scheme.

Retention of deposits is a big problem. They really should have a regulated third party looking after it. Likewise tenants not paying the last money rent and leaving damage behind them isn't unusual either. Looking at PRTB disputes retention of the deposit seems like the most common issue by a long way.

daltonmd

BostonB wrote: »

Thats not legal though which is why the CWO couldn't go along with it. I also probably breaks the conditions of the scheme.

Retention of deposits is a big problem. They really should have a regulated third party looking after it. Likewise tenants not paying the last money rent and leaving damage behind them isn't unusual either. Looking at PRTB disputes retention of the deposit seems like the most common issue by a long way.

Retentions of deposits is a big problem - normally reserved for landlords.

BostonB

So true its worth repeating.

But what problem does it cause Landlords?

daltonmd

BostonB wrote: »

So true its worth repeating.

But what problem does it cause Landlords?

I would have thought it was obvious? If a tenant withoulds the last months rent it's usually for reason.

Normally when tenants are driven to do this then it means that they are not secure in getting their deposit back (in escrow is the logical thing to do) and even in doing this the landlord is at risk to pay for o/s bills and cleaning costs.

runawaybishop

daltonmd wrote: »

I would have thought it was obvious? If a tenant withoulds the last months rent it's usually for reason.

Normally when tenants are driven to do this then it means that they are not secure in getting their deposit back (in escrow is the logical thing to do) and even in doing this the landlord is at risk to pay for o/s bills and cleaning costs.

2 wrongs make a right is it?

BostonB

daltonmd wrote: »

I would have thought it was obvious? If a tenant withoulds the last months rent it's usually for reason.

Normally when tenants are driven to do this then it means that they are not secure in getting their deposit back (in escrow is the logical thing to do) and even in doing this the landlord is at risk to pay for o/s bills and cleaning costs.

That's not retention of deposit. That's non payment of rent.

Its before the LL has retained the deposit. So its not 2 wrongs, its 1 wrong.

Even if the LL had no intention of retaining the deposit, doing this will escalate any fears they have about the condition the property will be left in. Also its illegal so you'll be on the wrong side of the PRTB and RA. If a dispute subsequently arises the tenant will be seen to have initiated it. There's bad tenants and bad LL's. So just as there's LL who'll retain the deposit for no good reason there are tenants who'll not pay rent for no good reason too. Solution is a 3rd party holding the deposits, and inspecting the properties when a tenant leaves.

That said, sometimes there's prior history that might force your hand. Its not always black and white in the real world.

someuser905

rule 1 of renting: never pay the last months rent

quietsailor

someuser905 wrote: »

rule 1 of renting: never pay the last months rent

Rule 1 of renting for LLs - take tenants to PRTB who don't pay the last months rent and don't give them back any deposit. Make next tenant pay 2 months rent as deposit.

See how easily it gets sh***y. I posted a reply to a similar person a few months back with links as well. I'll try to find it. Basically it said - On the continent the LLs demand anything from 3-6 months rent IN ADVANCE.

So if you keep the stupidity that you posted as your "rule" that's the direction you'll drive the Irish rental market in.

quietsailor

someuser905 wrote: »

rule 1 of renting: never pay the last months rent

Rule 1 of renting for LLs - take tenants to PRTB who don't pay last months rent and don't give back deposit. Make next tenant pay 2 months rent as deposit.

See how easily it gets sh***y. I posted a reply to a similar person a few months back with links as well old thread - post#40. Basically it said - On the continent the LLs demand anything from 3-6 months rent IN ADVANCE.

So if you keep the stupidity that you posted as your "rule" that's the direction you'll drive the Irish rental market in.

the_syco

I know one or two people whose rent is twice their rent; I dare say this wil stop people using their deposit as the last month.

someuser905

quietsailor wrote: »

Rule 1 of renting for LLs - take tenants to PRTB who don't pay the last months rent and don't give them back any deposit. Make next tenant pay 2 months rent as deposit.

See how easily it gets sh***y. I posted a reply to a similar person a few months back with links as well. I'll try to find it. Basically it said - On the continent the LLs demand anything from 3-6 months rent IN ADVANCE.

So if you keep the stupidity that you posted as your "rule" that's the direction you'll drive the Irish rental market in.

quietsailor wrote: »

Rule 1 of renting for LLs - take tenants to PRTB who don't pay last months rent and don't give back deposit. Make next tenant pay 2 months rent as deposit.

See how easily it gets sh***y. I posted a reply to a similar person a few months back with links as well old thread - post#40. Basically it said - On the continent the LLs demand anything from 3-6 months rent IN ADVANCE.

So if you keep the stupidity that you posted as your "rule" that's the direction you'll drive the Irish rental market in.

rule 1 of posting: don't double post

Victor

someuser905 wrote: »

rule 1 of posting: don't double post

Rule 0: Don't be a back seat mod.

Folks, lay off the sniping