Grandparents - hit a wall Cork County

snoops

Hi all - looking for some ideas as planning a day off next week to do some research and really want to spend the day wisely.

I am trying to track down my maternal family, having traced my paternal to the 1700s!

So far I'm not having much luck. From the 1901 census and family lore my Great Grandmother was living in Blarney St, Cork in one room of a two roomed house. She was 30 and already a widow. I know she had 5 kids, all but 2 were already in the USA. My grandmother and her oldest son were still with her.

I have my Grandmothers birth cert, she was born in Cork City, naming my Great grandad as a labourer and from the census my Great Grandmother is from Cork County and was 30 in 1901 so I know the year of her birth within a year or 2.

Here's my first problem - I don't know anything else apart from a very tentivate suggestion of a connection to Ovens (but we have been through the church records with no result)
My second is both Great Grandmother and Father's surname is Murphy - Julia and Denis.

Any suggestions as to how I can begin to investigate?

thanks all
S

shanew

snoops wrote: »

.....
I have my Grandmothers birth cert, she was born in Cork City, naming my Great grandad as a labourer and from the census my Great Grandmother is from Cork County and was 30 in 1901 so I know the year of her birth within a year or 2.
.....
both Great Grandmother and Father's surname is Murphy - Julia and Denis.
...

I'd start with a search for the marriage in civil records on the online BMD Index (or Ancestry if you have access). Even though the surname is very common, having both the bride and groom with the same surname would reduce the possibilities quite a bit. A marriage cert would give you details on their fathers, which should help narrow down possible births - although with a common surname like Murphy there may be a few possible matches. Sometimes father's occupation, or place of residence at time of marriage, or even names of witnesses can help confirm a possible birth cert.

You can usually narrow down the date range for the marriage search using the year of birth of the eldest child at one end, and Julia's 17th birthday at the other...


Shane

Ponster

snoops wrote: »

From the 1901 census and family lore my Great Grandmother was living in Blarney St, Cork in one room of a two roomed house. She was 30 and already a widow. I know she had 5 kids, all but 2 were already in the USA. My grandmother and her oldest son were still with her.

Can you link to this please? I wasn't able to find it.

familyseeker

Hi Snoops, are you sure of your details? I found a Julia Murphy @ 136.2 Blarney Street, Cork - widowed with two children - but she is 38 years old not 30. The children are William age 16 & Julia age 6. Is this the correct family?

If so, that puts her birth date c 1863 give or take. I found two marriages on the Ancestry site of Julia Murphy and Denis Murphy in Cork:

3rd Qtr (Jul/Aug/Sep) 1881, Vol 5 page 90
and
3rd Qtr 1883, Vol 5, Page 93.

I didn't check outside Cork City, there may be more Denis & Julia Murphy marriages in other areas of Cork county.

Do you know the ages of her other children? It might give a clue as to the general date of her marriage.

Ponster

familyseeker wrote: »

Hi Snoops, are you sure of your details?

I had pretty much found the same records. Names that match up but dates that seem 'out'.

snoops

Hi both

thanks a mil for this info.

Yes this is them .. sorry the 30 was a typo..

They are both from County Cork and I'm not sure they would have married in the city which is probably why i'm having so many problems.

I do know that Julia and the rest of the family William, Catherine and Mary (and one other) were born in the city and have mailed the Cathedral looking for Baptisimal records and perhaps a link to Julia/Denis marriage cert if such a thing exists.

Have also emailed the local school, built in the mid 1800s as William attended and thinkign they might have a registration doc.

Also tried the cemetry in case a broad search would be possible for Denis death between 1895 and 1901 but they can't do that.

S

pinkypinky

I presume you have checked on irishgenealogy.ie's Cork records?

snoops

I have a question

I have my Grand Mothers Birth Cert and when I enter her DOB, parent Julia and Denis I can't find her on the Index

Her DOB is 8/8/1894 Julia Murphy

Why would that be? I suppose as they may not have recorded her parents on the Index. There are 3 for the correct time period.

They certainly like to reuse the names don't they:)

S

shanew

The extracted records only cover up to about 1880, and BMD Index doesn't include parents names so you will not find a result that way.

search for just the name and the year and registration district...

see : https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Ajulia~%20%2Bsurname%3Amurphy~%20%2Bbirth_place%3ACork~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1894-1894&collection_id=1408347

should be one of those....



Shane

snoops

pinkypinky wrote: »

I presume you have checked on irishgenealogy.ie's Cork records?

yup - every dbase I can find on line

shanew - thanks .. checking here but I don't have the district for my great grandparents and luckily I have my grandmothers I was just trying to see if I could identify her easily .. but noooo

its hard when you don't know where the ggrands are from.

thanks a mil for all your help -

Ponster

True, but based on your Grandmothers DoB you can come up with a good estimation to her parents marriage. There can't have been that many Denis and Julia Murphys marrying each other

snoops

True - I will continue the search .. thanks for all the advice

Coolnabacky1873

You might know already but there are various digitized directories for cork on www.corkpastandpresent.ie

blue banana

snoops wrote: »

I do know that Julia and the rest of the family William, Catherine and Mary (and one other) were born in the city and have mailed the Cathedral looking for Baptisimal records and perhaps a link to Julia/Denis marriage cert if such a thing exists.

S

An alphabetical index of the North Cathedral records (Baptisms and Marriages) are available for consultation in Cork County Library, Carrigrohane Road, if you wanted to look for the records yoursef.

snoops

blue banana wrote: »

An alphabetical index of the North Cathedral records (Baptisms and Marriages) are available for consultation in Cork County Library, Carrigrohane Road, if you wanted to look for the records yoursef.

thanks a mil blue banana - this I didn't know. We're off to Cork for the conference at the end of March. It might be worth going down earlier and paying a visit if the Cathedral hasn't got back to me by then.

dido2

Snoops
I've seen that register and it's indexed both with the Bride and Grooms name

Heres a link to the library they also have old newspapers, http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/web/Cork%20County%20Council/Departments/Library%20%26%20Arts%20Service/Find%20Your%20Local%20Library/County%20Library
the Examiner is there not sure what else but you can book a microfilm reader if you want to look at them...
I found Death Notices for some family members which helped me figure out if they were widowed or not when they died which then helped me narrow down when their spouses died too, plus gave other info like in the case of my GF that his own father was still alive too when my GF died

snoops

Off to cork in the morning!!

Will update you all with my digging. Would love to get to the library .. sounds like a plan

Thanks all

Edit : Trip didn;t happen. Will go on the 30th instead .. suspense is killing me

snoops

Ok update from surveying the parish records and a huge thanks to Ovens Parish for their amazing assistance.

Didn't find my G Grandmother BUT found my G G Aunt and my G G Uncle!! Very exciting as we have identified positively the area that the family are from and have their parents details now too (my G G Grandparents)

Strangly tho he was born in 1860 and she in 1865 there was no record of my G Grandmother in 1863 .. any ideas as to why she might be missing from the baptisimal records?

Still no information about my G Grandfather although we did learn an interesting snippet that might help some people here when doing research. There is a naming convention in Cork which was extensively used in my family on both sides so I'd say it's fairly consistant across the county. Some even say its used elsewhere too

First born son named after his father's father
Second born son named after his mother's father
Third born son named after his father
Fourth born son named after his father's oldest brother
Fifth born son named after his father's 2nd oldest brother
or his mother's oldest brother


First born daughter named after her mother's mother
Second born daughter named after her father's mother
Third born daughter named after her mother
Fourth born daughter named after her mother's oldest sister
Fifth born daughter named after her mother's 2nd oldest sister
or her father's oldest sister

This holds true for 3 generations on both maternal and paternal side of my family.

I also found Baptisimal records and birth date details for my Great Uncle and Great Aunts who emigrated to the USA in the late 1800s.

A very productive trip to Cork.

S

pinkypinky

That sounds like a very productive trip - well done.

That naming convention is country wide, and very handy!

snoops

Ladies and gents, further digging is getting me a hint of my g grandads death record which is amazing as we don't know where he was buried. Can I just get this from Birth, deaths and marriages in Dublin if I have the familysearch index details?

thanks for your help?

dido2

If your in Dublin then yes you can go in and get it, if your not you order via post by downloading the form from the GRO website..

I'm not sure how it works with other Births, Deaths and Marriages offices but I've been to the cork one and even though I've had the right info as such they couldn't give me the birth cert without the mother maiden name but I could order them via the GRO...

shanew

The index details on the FamilySearch website come from the National Index and registers created by GRO head office - so these references will work fine in the research room in Dublin, or fro orders from Roscommon.

Regional registration offices generally use their local copies of the registers rather than the National copies, so the FamilySearch Index (or GRO index books) doesnt apply to them.


Shane

snoops

Got the cert but it says this man died in the workhouse.

I'm really hoping this isnt him ..

Edited .. Any of you Cork Lads know where Mannix Arch is/was? I'm thinking if its near Mannix Lane its near Blarney St and therefore the signs are that this could be my Boy.

pedroeibar1

I realise that this thread is 2 years old and that the OP has not been around since then.....weird that I came across it on a Google search for info on Mannix Lane FWIW I’ve been told it is long gone, it was on the west side of Fair Lane and had an arched entrance, known locally as Ahern’s Arch. The Ahern family were victuallers in Fair Lane since the early 1800’s and lived in the house on Fair Lane/ Mannix Lane corner. Fair Lane is now known as Wolfe Tone Street. There is an Ahern/Henry Ford family connection through an Ahern that went to Dearborn in the mid 1800’s. One of my projects, taking it in small bites, the many of the early records in the Cathedral microfilm in the NLI were written by a spider using a quill.:(

Jellybaby1

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

.......One of my projects, taking it in small bites, the many of the early records in the Cathedral microfilm in the NLI were written by a spider using a quill.

I laughed when I read that. But I'm really sorry, its not funny at all. I've almost gone blind trying to read NLI microfilms.

snoops

Still lurking .. and still not found my guy. Things got a bit busy but haven’t forgotten about him ..

Hermy

Welcome back snoops.

Where are you at with your search now?

Have you made any progress since?

pinkypinky

It's funny to see how we searched 10 years ago. With the (nearly) full historic records on irishgenealogy.ie and the transcribed parish records from the NLI, a lot more can be achieved.