Application sent back - Question on shooter numbers.

wexfordman

Hi,

This is a bit of a mad one. Have submitted my application for .243 rifle for deer hunting with the following details:-

1) NWPS deer hunting licence
2) Permission from 3 landowners ammounting to 300 acres to shoot deer on.
3) Folio numbers, addresses, contact numbers for all the farmers
5) Gunclub membership card.
6) Existing shotgun licence details7
7) Letter outlining need for licence what it is being used for, experience with firearms etc.

The application has come back with a query, the gardai want to know the other people who have permission to shoot on the above lands.

Now as far as I can see, the nwps have ensured that the lands are adequate to shoot on from the persepctive of deer hunting etc, so not sure what the gardai need to know for, and how they could even judge.

Secondly, It does not seem very plausable that I can approach my landowners and ask them for a list of people who they have given permission to shoot on also ? It seems like an invasion of privacy on my part, and not somehting that I beleive they would be happy to provide.

In any case, it is a bit odd that the gardai would expect a farmer to give me a list of people with firearms ?

Any advice apprecaited ?

Cass

Have never even heard of that one before let alone been asked for it.

I would make an appointment to see the FO. Go in (with your application, and paperwork), and explain to him that as the NPWS have issued the license they deem the grounds satisfactory for you to shoot on along with whomever else they granted a license to shoot on the same grounds.

You mention that you supplied your membership number from your gun club. Do they use the same grounds also? If so approach the club secretary, ask him for a letter from the club stating something along the lines of;

To whom it may concern,

Mr "Wexfordman" is a current member of "your gun club", and along with the other "X amount" of members in the club has permission to use these lands. To the best of the clubs knowledge this is the total amount of persons using the lands for game shooting.

Now this is only a quick thought of the top of my head. erhaps sit down, think it out, and reword it as appropriate.

Have this letter, but do not hand it over until you have spoken to the FO. This is not being "sneaky2, but no need to hand it over until you see if a talk/chat will suffice. Explain to him that all club members have permission, and there is possibly a few people outside of the club that the land owner has given individual sporting rights to however when you approached the farmer/landowner he was unable to give you a definite number. If he insists on a letter then produce it, and see it that satisfies him/her.

Ask him why this figure is needed. Explain that the majority of shooting involves game such as pheasant, and the usual vermin control, otherwise the NPWS would not have issued the deer license.

As sad above this is the first i have heard of this being asked. The responsibility of the NPWS is to determine this, not the Gardai, and the club itself usually regulates the amount of members depeding on the lands available to them. However as the Gardai issue the licenses having all the paperwork, etc that you have is not a guarantee of getting a license.


Go speak to your FO, be polite, answer any questions as detailsed as you can, and above all rememeber no matter how annoying, frustrating or unfair this may seem you are relying on them to issue the license.

4gun

you have no idea who or how many others shoot on the farmers land,
anyone could call to the farmer and as to shoot at any time, as the farmer may be good enough to grant any one who asks permission
you may do likewise in another area as you are not confined to your origional 300 acres

you could always go back and say that the farmer refused to give you such information in order to protect the other lads privacy.

would you like if the farmer passed your name on to some stranger??
it seems like a ridiculous request

juice1304

Why not just ring the FPU and have them straighten it all out that is their job after all. Very nice chaps, i was told by them if i had anymore trouble with my application to ring them and they'd have a word.

wexfordman

juice1304 wrote: »

Why not just ring the FPU and have them straighten it all out that is their job after all. Very nice chaps, i was told by them if i had anymore trouble with my application to ring them and they'd have a word.

Hi Guys,


Juice, can you tell me do the FPU take general calls like this, and would they adress the issue itself or give general advice ?

thanks for the responses so far. To clarify a few points, firstly the lands I have permission for are not part of the lands of my local gun club (no deer in my gun club area). THe reason I presented my GC membership was to show history, experience, insurance etc, to show I am a long term shooter etc.

been speaking to a number of organisations, the nargc for a start, and they say that I cannot provide this info as I am simply not able to. It is unreasonable for me to request a list of names off of landowners, and prob illegal, and certainly not good for a joe soap like myself to be given a list of names and addresses of firearms holders!

The approach they recommended was to refuse this information, and request a meeting with the super. Further local enquiries, this super is new, and is anti firearms apparrantly, a couple of similar issues have occurred localy apparantly.

Based on this, my concern now is also perhaps if the super contacts the landowners directly himself, he may in fact "deter" them from giving further permissiones etc, or may leave them with the impression that its just not worth the hassle!! I think I prob should not have given hiim the info inthe first place as the nwps cert was suffeceint apparrantly!

So, the question is, do I approach this hand in cap manner, or do I be strict about what I am prepared to do! In theory he cannot refuse my licence without valid reason, and I dont think he will have a valid reason ?

Then again, if i piss this guy off, it could go badly for me in ways that I am not aware of ?

Jonty

Surely if NWPS deem the land overpopulated with deer that should be good enough.

wexfordman

Jonty wrote: »

Surely if NWPS deem the land overpopulated with deer that should be good enough.

You would think so wouldn't you ;-(

Not sure I'd I should say this to te super though!

Plan in visiting the landowners this weekend and see if I can get an indication of how many shooters of any they have on the land! Will give this info to the super to try and give the idea I've at least worked with him on it, but can't do much more than that!

Will see how it goes

Cass

I would make an appointment with the Super, and sit down, and speak with him before doing anything. Explain the info he wants is nigh on impossible to get, will not be 100% accurate, and would be breaking confidences of other agreements between the land owners, and others shooting on the land (ala - firearm owners, names, etc).

Do nothing until you speak to him. That could save you alot of grief, and it may possibly be unnecessary to have to try and get the names, details originally asked for.

As i said in my first post i find this very strange, and have never heard of this exact request before.

No6

Why not give them the folio numbers and the name of the NPWS ranger or the office number which have issued your deer licence, You do not have and in fairness should not have this information but the NPWS do.

Half-cocked

The Gardai in south Co Dublin were at this a few years back, they even had a form for the land owner to fill in detailing everyone who had permission to shoot on their property. I sent a copy to the NARGC and a while later the Gardai stopped handing out the form to applicants.

Jonty

Another case of "ah sure we'll make it up as we go along!"

wexfordman

Jonty wrote: »

Another case of "ah sure we'll make it up as we go along!"

Well just to update! I contacted the nargc about this at the time and they said to politely refuse to provide the info which I did in writing saying that is was impossible for me to do so! This was followed by a visit from my firearms officer (a very helpful
And supportive chap btw who is a keen shooter himself) who said that he had been told to contact and speak to the landowners himself! He did that while I was there and all was okay!

That was about 3 weeks ago and I believe a decision is due by the 7th of this month (in fact was hoping to have heard already)

Such a pain in the ass system tbh but anyone advise me of anything I should do now to follow up, I have a sneaking feeling its bit going to be granted by the 7th!

A mate is also applying via the same super and he has not been asked to provide this info yet but he was asked to submit a doctors letter stating that a sound modifier would protect his ears (which was not the reason he applied for ye sound modifier in ye first place anyway)

No consistency at all it seems!

patdahat

Give them a ring and ask them what's the story that they havent got back yet and they were supposed to, dont get laxy daisy about it keep rining until you get an answer, worst case youll be told wait until the 7th.

juice1304

I always make sure i ring if they have'nt got in contact with me as with my first application they took eight months because it was forgoten about after ringing i had it within a week.

wexfordman

juice1304 wrote: »

I always make sure i ring if they have'nt got in contact with me as with my first application they took eight months because it was forgoten about after ringing i had it within a week.

Yeah, will give them a ring later and see how it is going!

On a related topic, went out to some of my landowners over the weekend to get some permission letters signed for next seasons deer licence from the npws! One of the landowners was one the Garda contacted to get information about and he was really pissed off with me! Said the Garda asked him loads of questions about other shooters on his land, numbers, names etc, asked him about his own firearms and why he didn't just shoot the deer himself etc!

As I said he was really pissed off with me over it and was reluctant to sign a new letter! Managed to convince him and was really opologetic to him but was really touch and go!

I'm really pissed off with this and it's the feckin superintendents fault for being so intrusive, I was afraid something like this might happen! I'm now on very shaky ground with this landowner and it's a great spot, but overall this does not bode well for shooters in general if Garda enquiries are starting to piss off landowners!

The guy actually said he wasn't going to give permission to any other shooters as a result of this and might not give it to me again!

wexfordman

Well git licence approved last Thursday on the day the application was due to expire!

Got the approval letter in the post today and went straight to the po to pay the licence fee do hope it will arrive soon and I can collect my new gun:-)

The approval letter had no restrictions listed but also did not list any limitations with regards ammunition numbers etc! It also did not mention a sound moderator which I applied for in the application, dies this mean it was not granted ?
Regards
Eamon

juice1304

Well done on the new gun, you won't know if you got the mod or what your ammo limit is untill you get the licence.

Witcher

wexfordman wrote: »

The approval letter had no restrictions listed but also did not list any limitations with regards ammunition numbers etc! It also did not mention a sound moderator which I applied for in the application, dies this mean it was not granted

You won't know how much ammunition you can have or whether you got the moderator until the actual licence arrives:)

wexfordman

Blay wrote: »

wexfordman wrote: »

The approval letter had no restrictions listed but also did not list any limitations with regards ammunition numbers etc! It also did not mention a sound moderator which I applied for in the application, dies this mean it was not granted

You won't know how much ammunition you can have or whether you got the moderator until the actual licence arrives:)

Thanks,

Rang the fo and asked and they said moderator had been approved :-) will have to wait and see about the ammunition limit though!

Anyone know or recommend a moderator for Remington 700 .243 ? Any ideas of price (including threading etc)

wexfordman

wexfordman wrote: »

Blay wrote: »

wexfordman wrote: »

The approval letter had no restrictions listed but also did not list any limitations with regards ammunition numbers etc! It also did not mention a sound moderator which I applied for in the application, dies this mean it was not granted

You won't know how much ammunition you can have or whether you got the moderator until the actual licence arrives:)

Thanks,

Rang the fo and asked and they said moderator had been approved :-) will have to wait and see about the ammunition limit though!

Anyone know or recommend a moderator for Remington 700 .243 ? Any ideas of price (including threading etc)

Mmm, git the licence today! It has an "s" on it! Does that mean it is certified for a moderator ? It does not mention a scope ? Does it have to refer to a scope also, as I apoliced with a scope in the form!

Jonty

The whole "scope" thing on an application does not refer to a normal optical scope. Its for a NV scope. The form isn't clear on this and a lot of people tick this box and actually shouldn't.