Buying a house 2012

Lenny

killers1 wrote: »

Lenny just a couple of points...

1) your existing loan offer dated 7th Oct will be valid to drawdown in 2012 or first week in Jan so should be sufficient.
2) the contracts that you sign your solicitor will put a clause in to say its subject to mortgage approval and drawdown which means that if the vendor came back and had a closing date of March on it and if for any reason you couldn't get the mortgage approval at that stage your full deposit would be refunded...
3) so long as you close on the current valid loan offer there is no possibility of the bank coming back looking for further income docs etc. your file has left the underwriters dept when the loan offer issued and is now with completions dept who just tick the boxes as the loan offer conditions are satisfied.

ok thanks for clearing it up. the part in bold is always standard on signing?
I think my broker is more worried than I am ringing looking for an update & feeling that no progress has been made.
Has made a few references to my partner. and how the bank could come back and ask for me doc's

killers1

Lenny wrote: »

ok thanks for clearing it up. the part in bold is always standard on signing?
I think my broker is more worried than I am ringing looking for an update & feeling that no progress has been made.
Has made a few references to my partner. and how the bank could come back and ask for me doc's

I'd suggest you ask your broker to start liasing with your solicitor. I'll be speaking to your solicitor tomorrow about other cases and don't mind mentioning it for you if you want.

Dubchick81

Our loan offer was valid for 6 months.. After all the messing around with the first house we were sale agreed on the came n went n we hadn't yet found a house we liked.. But it was just a case of keeping the bank (Bank of Ireland) updated that we were still looking and still wanted the mortgage.. They weren't too pushed on the time frame and all they needed when we did find a house we wanted to buy was some new up to date payslips.. I'm a FTB so not really clued in but I'd imagine most banks would be the same?!

dove2011

oh my wows continue- just spoke to solicitor he is sending the cheque request form the 4th time to AIB- the first time they ignored it and struck off my mortgage, 2nd & 3th time they just lost the fax copy + the hard copy. He is now hoping to send it to a generic email in AIB - let hope they are up to date with technology. Then a call from the local branch- the direct debit mandate that they provided me is no longer accepted in AIB HQ so I have to fill up my 3rd DD mandate and give it to them. I no longer have any respect for AIB... I would be dismissed automatically if I dealt with a customer in the hotel I work. So once more I had to reschedule all my plans for moving in.

Kristinew

sorry to hear that dove2011, at the beginning of my application aib were very helpful and now any time i need info its like getting blood from a stone. i dont understand what the delay is trying to draw down on the mortgage. but ive been trying for 2 weeks and am still none the wiser as to whats happening. can get anyone to call me back. hopefully someone will start working in aib and clear the backlog for us.

engineermike

Hi,
Lots of concerns and issues for the many posters in the forum, last minute hurdles and problems from vendors, agents, receivers, other professionals to the banks.
One further pitfall i've observed in a couple of cases over the last while relates to the constant flux in stress testing of mortgages by the banks.
Last minute phone calls from your lender - due to the recent interest hikes we have to drop your loan offer by " €xx,xxx" -
So something to be aware of if your suffering delays in the conveyancing process guys.
mike f :rolleyes:

Grover81

It's been a long old trek...

Background info: we're both first-time buyers and have been saving over the last 4 years constantly to drum up enough for a deposit on a house.

Went sale agreed on a house 1st October after about 4/5 weeks of bidding. In terms of savings we have enough to cover the deposit and about 40% extra on top of that.

We had an loan offer all set to go from BoI who told us we were very much on the ball with all the paper work: joint bank account statements, current account statements, loan statements, credit card statements, photocopies of ID, proof of address etc. and this was all before we even had pre-approval. We've a great credit history - no overdrafts, charges for late payments on c.cards etc., both in full-time employment (him on permanent me on long-term contract which they were happy with)

Then queue the delays: issues over the leasehold and freehold, negotiation over the outcome of the structural survey (which we got 5K knocked off - yay), which delayed the whole process. Then issues over life assurance due to my diabetes. But finally all sorted. Signed contracts with solicitor, paid the remainder of the deposit, left in outstanding documents (more account statements and updated payslips - even though they have consistent bank statement from start of 2011 till now) to the bank and signed off on the loan offer at the start of this week.

Now the bank are coming back saying that there's potential issues re. evidence of savings (adding everything up it seems that we're 1.5K short in terms of pure savings (i.e. savings contained in designated savings accounts), even though we've more than twice that available in my AIB account (kept there to avoid banking fees) and an outstanding credit union loan of 4K which the loan offer wanted evidence of it being closed (which it isn't and which we never claimed to have been closed). The person handling the application in the local branch has changed about 4 times, due to staff leaving, being replaced, transferred etc. Just when we thought all was nearing closing.

It really is a mammoth test of nerves and endurance.

Everything's been sent into the underwriters and we're now crossing everything that they don't suddenly withdraw their offer. If they're able to use their brains, it should be pretty clear that we're a sound investment for them, financially, even if there are one or two things that aren't exactly as mentioned in the conditions of the loan offer.

tommyh1977

Grover81 wrote: »

It really is a mammoth test of nerves and endurance.

I couldn't have described it better myself. We had a son who had major life saving open heart surgery at 9 weeks old, I don't think we found that as stressful as buying this house. See my post a few back, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. Best of luck to you.

SNNUS

Never would have dreamed that buying a property would be so stressful!!!

killers1

Grover81 wrote: »

It's been a long old trek...

Background info: we're both first-time buyers and have been saving over the last 4 years constantly to drum up enough for a deposit on a house.

Went sale agreed on a house 1st October after about 4/5 weeks of bidding. In terms of savings we have enough to cover the deposit and about 40% extra on top of that.

We had an loan offer all set to go from BoI who told us we were very much on the ball with all the paper work: joint bank account statements, current account statements, loan statements, credit card statements, photocopies of ID, proof of address etc. and this was all before we even had pre-approval. We've a great credit history - no overdrafts, charges for late payments on c.cards etc., both in full-time employment (him on permanent me on long-term contract which they were happy with)

Then queue the delays: issues over the leasehold and freehold, negotiation over the outcome of the structural survey (which we got 5K knocked off - yay), which delayed the whole process. Then issues over life assurance due to my diabetes. But finally all sorted. Signed contracts with solicitor, paid the remainder of the deposit, left in outstanding documents (more account statements and updated payslips - even though they have consistent bank statement from start of 2011 till now) to the bank and signed off on the loan offer at the start of this week.

Now the bank are coming back saying that there's potential issues re. evidence of savings (adding everything up it seems that we're 1.5K short in terms of pure savings (i.e. savings contained in designated savings accounts), even though we've more than twice that available in my AIB account (kept there to avoid banking fees) and an outstanding credit union loan of 4K which the loan offer wanted evidence of it being closed (which it isn't and which we never claimed to have been closed). The person handling the application in the local branch has changed about 4 times, due to staff leaving, being replaced, transferred etc. Just when we thought all was nearing closing.

It really is a mammoth test of nerves and endurance.

Everything's been sent into the underwriters and we're now crossing everything that they don't suddenly withdraw their offer. If they're able to use their brains, it should be pretty clear that we're a sound investment for them, financially, even if there are one or two things that aren't exactly as mentioned in the conditions of the loan offer.

I've a lot of sympathy for you. Your mortgage advisor/broker should be the point of contact that brings you through the whole process, pushing it forward and explaining everything as you go along. By the sounds of it they haven't explained the loan offer very well. It looks as though the loan was approved on the basis that your CU loan is repaid prior to cheque issue. To satisfy this condition you'll need to repay the CU loan and provide a statement showing it has been repaid. Where they are saying your 1.5k short in 'pure savings' this doesn't make sense. Maybe you are short showing €1.5k of the balance of funds to complete the purchase?

I know it's a stressful process, even more so nowadays with additional variables like receivership/NE sales/loan offers expiring/ approval amounts being reduced etc but if anyone is lost in the process please feel free to send me a PM and I'll be happy to point you in the right direction or explain any issues you're encountering.

Grover81

killers1 wrote: »

I've a lot of sympathy for you. Your mortgage advisor/broker should be the point of contact that brings you through the whole process, pushing it forward and explaining everything as you go along. By the sounds of it they haven't explained the loan offer very well. It looks as though the loan was approved on the basis that your CU loan is repaid prior to cheque issue. To satisfy this condition you'll need to repay the CU loan and provide a statement showing it has been repaid. Where they are saying your 1.5k short in 'pure savings' this doesn't make sense. Maybe you are short showing €1.5k of the balance of funds to complete the purchase?

I know it's a stressful process, even more so nowadays with additional variables like receivership/NE sales/loan offers expiring/ approval amounts being reduced etc but if anyone is lost in the process please feel free to send me a PM and I'll be happy to point you in the right direction or explain any issues you're encountering.

Thanks for the words of support Killers.

That's the fear re. the CU loan. We could actually pay it off if necessary using our own savings, but then of course this would reduce our overall savings amount.

The funds required for the purchase - i.e. the 10% amounts to €34,300. We have €33,845 in joint savings, together with €8,300 in my savings and €5,000 in my partners CU, against which the loan was taken out (4K still outstanding). So all in all, we have more than enough funds to complete the purchase (incl. covering the associated legal fees etc.). I also have stated to the orginal mortgage advisor we were dealing with that I have 3K in my current account that was trasferred previously from savings to avoid banking fees, so that too is available. When I say 'pure savings' I mean that they probably won't include the 3K in their calculations of evidence of savings.

We've been given a 5K loan/gift from my partners parents too just this last week towards the house. I guess if we have to we could also use this to pay off the CU loan if the bank refuse to relase funds without clearing the loan.

We've signed the contracts and paid the deposit in full, so if BOI refuse to issue the cheque at this stage I don't know what we'll do.

So how strictly will they adhere to the conditions of the loan offer - how flexible are they likely to be given that everything is else is up to scratch and say the only thing outstanding is the CU loan? What is so frustrating is that we have such a consistent financial history over the last 4 years and a simple CU car loan (which we're can show we're paying back regularly) may ruin everything.

killers1

Grover81 wrote: »

Thanks for the words of support Killers.

That's the fear re. the CU loan. We could actually pay it off if necessary using our own savings, but then of course this would reduce our overall savings amount.

The funds required for the purchase - i.e. the 10% amounts to €34,300. We have €33,845 in joint savings, together with €8,300 in my savings and €5,000 in my partners CU, against which the loan was taken out (4K still outstanding). So all in all, we have more than enough funds to complete the purchase (incl. covering the associated legal fees etc.). I also have stated to the orginal mortgage advisor we were dealing with that I have 3K in my current account that was trasferred previously from savings to avoid banking fees, so that too is available. When I say 'pure savings' I mean that they probably won't include the 3K in their calculations of evidence of savings.

We've been given a 5K loan/gift from my partners parents too just this last week towards the house. I guess if we have to we could also use this to pay off the CU loan if the bank refuse to relase funds without clearing the loan.

We've signed the contracts and paid the deposit in full, so if BOI refuse to issue the cheque at this stage I don't know what we'll do.

So how strictly will they adhere to the conditions of the loan offer - how flexible are they likely to be given that everything is else is up to scratch and say the only thing outstanding is the CU loan? What is so frustrating is that we have such a consistent financial history over the last 4 years and a simple CU car loan (which we're can show we're paying back regularly) may ruin everything.

Hi Grover81,
I don't see how the CU loan can possibly ruin everything if you are borrowing 90% of the purchase price as you have substantial savings left over to repay it? or are you putting all your savings towards the purchase? The loan offer conditions are set in stone and any request for them to waive this condition will need approval from the underwriter and a new legal pack to be issued without that condition noted on it. They would generally only look for a loan to be repaid if your salaries weren't sufficient to service the stressed mortgage repayments + the CU loan repayment at the same time or if you didn't have an existing proven repayment capacity for the 2 loan repayments combined.

Grover81

killers1 wrote: »

Hi Grover81,
I don't see how the CU loan can possibly ruin everything if you are borrowing 90% of the purchase price as you have substantial savings left over to repay it? or are you putting all your savings towards the purchase? The loan offer conditions are set in stone and any request for them to waive this condition will need approval from the underwriter and a new legal pack to be issued without that condition noted on it. They would generally only look for a loan to be repaid if your salaries weren't sufficient to service the stressed mortgage repayments + the CU loan repayment at the same time or if you didn't have an existing proven repayment capacity for the 2 loan repayments combined.

Well all in all, we'll be left over with about €8-€9K in savings once the house is purchased (incl. deposit, stamp duty + legal fees).

In terms of salaries, together we've a combined annual salary of €74K. We passed the original stress test of a 2% mortgage interest rate increase. We've been renting together for 7 years, and for the last two the rent has been €1,100 plus weve been saving €600 jointly per month, saving additional funds seperately (about €100 each per month) and paying €200-€250 a month off the CU loan, so that should be evidence enough that we'll be capable of making the mortgage repayments and also repaying the loan.

If they do have to issue a new legal pack it will obviously delay things even further and the fear is we won't be able to draw down before the end of the year to avail of the MIR.

Dubchick81

The only queries that held up our mortgage application was the unsteady pattern of my partners savings also.. Not that I had loans coming from all over the place from car loan to bank loan to credit card etc... Once we explained everything and showed statements it was all fine tho.. Hoping our cheque is sent to our solicitor today as we're due to close on Monday.. Praying for no last minute hiccups...

killers1

Grover81 wrote: »

Well all in all, we'll be left over with about €8-€9K in savings once the house is purchased (incl. deposit, stamp duty + legal fees).

In terms of salaries, together we've a combined annual salary of €74K. We passed the original stress test of a 2% mortgage interest rate increase. We've been renting together for 7 years, and for the last two the rent has been €1,100 plus weve been saving €600 jointly per month, saving additional funds seperately (about €100 each per month) and paying €200-€250 a month off the CU loan, so that should be evidence enough that we'll be capable of making the mortgage repayments and also repaying the loan.

If they do have to issue a new legal pack it will obviously delay things even further and the fear is we won't be able to draw down before the end of the year to avail of the MIR.

Rather than delay things trying to have a new loan offer issued and the CU loan condition removed you'd be better off repaying it from your savings and providing a statement showing it has been repaid. You'll still be free to borrow from the CU in the future if needs be. BOI loan cheques will need to issue by around the 14th Dec to ensure you qualify for MIR.

manster

Got the keys of my second house there last week. Sold my first inside 3 weeks in June. Priced to sell as i needed funds to buy. Then went sale agreed on a house in a better area, one that I couldn't afford in the boom 7 years earlier.

Not all rosy, as i had to go renting for 3 months. Also lost my tracker mortgage, then variable rate increased twice. Then was gazumped after going sale agreed in July. Could find nothing even close to what i felt i lost for 2 months. Out of the blue, i received a phone call in September from the estate agent - the guy who gazumped me didn't have the deposit. Jumped in with my previous offer and was accepted.

Only advice I'd offer is expect stress, expect upheaval but this will pass and don't forget you are buying at the lowest house prices in decades so keep looking forward.

Grover81

killers1 wrote: »

Rather than delay things trying to have a new loan offer issued and the CU loan condition removed you'd be better off repaying it from your savings and providing a statement showing it has been repaid. You'll still be free to borrow from the CU in the future if needs be. BOI loan cheques will need to issue by around the 14th Dec to ensure you qualify for MIR.

Thanks for the advice Killers. Think I'll follow up with BOI and tell em that we can pay off the CU loan and provide evidence of such. We may use the money we got as a loan from my partners parents to pay it off - if thats the case do we also need to supply them with a letter stating that it is a gift to prove where the money came from to pay off the loan?

Grover81

Dubchick81 wrote: »

Hoping our cheque is sent to our solicitor today as we're due to close on Monday.. Praying for no last minute hiccups...

Best of luck Dubchick!

Kristinew

Solicitor received funds this morning and has just closed the sale. Collecting keys on my way home from work. Wasnt expecting it to happen so suddenly. My solicitor was fantastic thankfully, banks were slow processing the application. stress level were at an all time high for last couple of months. When i bought the house i didnt know anything about the MIR and it has made it a little sweeter now that i will get it. all the stress and uncertaintly will be worth it when i turn the key of my own house, soon to be made my home

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer questions and give advise, This tread has been my bible for the last few months and gave me a greater understanding of the process.

congrats to everyone who has purchased in 2012 and i wish all of those still waiting to close the very best of luck.

Dubchick81

Grover81 wrote: »

Best of luck Dubchick!

Thank you
Well, My solicitor has received the cheque from my bank but is in the High Court all day.. So closing will go ahead on Monday as planned.. So fricken excited....
As has just been said, thank you so much to everyone for their help and advice. As a FTB we didn't have a clue of the process and what was normal and what was not.. maHOOsive thanks to Killers1 for his guidance

Kristinew wrote: »

Solicitor received funds this morning and has just closed the sale. Collecting keys on my way home from work. Wasnt expecting it to happen so suddenly. My solicitor was fantastic thankfully, banks were slow processing the application. stress level were at an all time high for last couple of months. When i bought the house i didnt know anything about the MIR and it has made it a little sweeter now that i will get it. all the stress and uncertaintly will be worth it when i turn the key of my own house, soon to be made my home

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer questions and give advise, This tread has been my bible for the last few months and gave me a greater understanding of the process.

congrats to everyone who has purchased in 2012 and i wish all of those still waiting to close the very best of luck.

Woohooo.. Congratz.. Enjoy the first weekend in your new home

Fearsneachta in Poland

We are at the stage where solicitor is going to look for drawdown of mortgage on Monday. Does anybody know what happens during this process. Do banks look for more wage slips, bank statements etc? (AIB Bank)

killers1

Fearsneachta in Poland wrote: »

We are at the stage where solicitor is going to look for drawdown of mortgage on Monday. Does anybody know what happens during this process. Do banks look for more wage slips, bank statements etc? (AIB Bank)

Have all loan offer conditions been complied with? Is the only item now o/s the solicitor cheque requisition form? If so, the solicitor sends the request for funds to the bank. They double check everything that was sent in to satisfy the loan offer conditions i.e. life cover, home ins, DD mandate etc. The funds generally arrive in your solicitors client a/c 48 hours after the requisition is received or on whatever date they have specified that the want the funds.

Fearsneachta in Poland

killers1 wrote: »

Have all loan offer conditions been complied with? Is the only item now o/s the solicitor cheque requisition form? If so, the solicitor sends the request for funds to the bank. They double check everything that was sent in to satisfy the loan offer conditions i.e. life cover, home ins, DD mandate etc. The funds generally arrive in your solicitors client a/c 48 hours after the requisition is received or on whatever date they have specified that the want the funds.

Thanks Killers. Yes all the loan offer conditions have been complied with. Thats great news, I thought that they would look for up to date statements again.

killers1

Fearsneachta in Poland wrote: »

Thanks Killers. Yes all the loan offer conditions have been complied with. Thats great news, I thought that they would look for up to date statements again.

No, all the underwriting requirements are asked for pre-loan offer with AIB so definitely no more bank statements, income docs etc. If its only cheque req o/s you're done & dusted from the mortgage point of view..

fergiesfolly

Is anyone else reading this thread, dumbfounded by the lack of information people buying property are given by those, in the property industry.
Do the banks, estate agents, solicitors not have this information readily available for those entering the process.
Should the whole process,from start to finish, not be layed out for the prospective buyers to follow in an easily accessable manner, that doesn't leave them confused and stressed out.
It seems totally ridiculous that home buyers have to trawl the internet, scraping whatever nuggets of information from threads like this one. Although, thank god theres people like Killers1 willing to lend a hand.
Fair play to all those entering the fray. I'm afraid I'd be a basket case by the end of the whole thing.

Grover81

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Is anyone else reading this thread, dumbfounded by the lack of information people buying property are given by those, in the property industry.
Do the banks, estate agents, solicitors not have this information readily available for those entering the process.
Should the whole process,from start to finish, not be layed out for the prospective buyers to follow in an easily accessable manner, that doesn't leave them confused and stressed out.
It seems totally ridiculous that home buyers have to trawl the internet, scraping whatever nuggets of information from threads like this one. Although, thank god theres people like Killers1 willing to lend a hand.
Fair play to all those entering the fray. I'm afraid I'd be a basket case by the end of the whole thing.

Completely agree. A straightforward step-by-step guide as to each of the processes, with explanations of what all the legalease means. So at least its easy to keep up with what's going on. I had to stop people (brokers/solicitors/mortgage advisors) so many times to ask them what they meant (I'd never heard of things like conveyancing, draw-down, requisition, fire policy, underwriting, escrow, the principal) - ask the dumb questions so to speak. But I guess thats why people charge for these types of services.

Even if everything goes 100% smoothly and there are absolutely no hiccups or delays and you do everything by the book it's a stressful situation, and I think a lot of it is not exactly knowing what is going on behind the scenes. Having the information there would really help relieve some of this and add some transparency to the whole thing.

fergiesfolly

Is that the point of all the secrecy and confusion then?
If we're kept in the dark without the neccessary knolledge to understand the process, we're happy(less happy,more willing!) to pay over large sums of money to have other people sort through the jumble of red tape and legal mumbo jumbo.

TheDriver

I started a thread to say thanks to killers1 for all his help to everyone here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056815202
lets show our appreciation to an excellent professional who gives his advice so freely.

blueballfc

Hi there, long time follower of this thread and up until recently did not have a reason to post .I am a fist time buyer and so gone sale agreed survey done and contracts drawn up closing date 11thdec. So all seems to be in order. There are a few things left that after trawling through this thread cant seem to find.
1)this is a receivership sale - properties sold as seen. Snag list will be done after sign of contracts- is this normal?
2) Condition 36 has been removed from the contract and my solicitor has advised me to contact the surveyor ??
3) surveyor has advised me that it is the solicitor that is looking after adherence to planning
4) Neither the power or the gas is connected how is responsible for this?
5) We have not gotten a full copy of the planing documents for this, do I have to get a copy of these myself ?
6) Is there any chance of closing this by the end of the year ? For FTB
7) I am missing anything beside the above before signing contracts.?? Thanks so much- great thread btw

killers1

blueballfc wrote: »

Hi there, long time follower of this thread and up until recently did not have a reason to post .I am a fist time buyer and so gone sale agreed survey done and contracts drawn up closing date 11thdec. So all seems to be in order. There are a few things left that after trawling through this thread cant seem to find.
1)this is a receivership sale - properties sold as seen. Snag list will be done after sign of contracts- is this normal?
2) Condition 36 has been removed from the contract and my solicitor has advised me to contact the surveyor ??
3) surveyor has advised me that it is the solicitor that is looking after adherence to planning
4) Neither the power or the gas is connected how is responsible for this?
5) We have not gotten a full copy of the planing documents for this, do I have to get a copy of these myself ?
6) Is there any chance of closing this by the end of the year ? For FTB
7) I am missing anything beside the above before signing contracts.?? Thanks so much- great thread btw

Sounds like you're threading a bit of a minefield here....In relation to youre questions;

1. If you are buying the property 'as is' who is going to carry out the snag list repairs? Is it the builder or is it your responsibility? Generally in the case of a new build you would sign contracts prior to the snag being done and the contract is subject to the builder providing a completed property to your satisfaction i.e. repairing all items listed on the snag. If you are buying 'as is' are they still going to repair or not?
2. I'd be very very wary of this... If there are planning issues you will run into difficulties if you ever look to sell the property in the future. You're solicitor should be resisting this effort to remove the condition. I don't see why your solicitor would refer you back to the surveyor (I'd have concerns about your solicitor TBH... See here;

http://conveyancinghandbook.lawsociety.ie/Chap12/12-27.pdf

3. Surveyor is correct and your solicitor should be battling the vendor solicitor during the pre-contract enquiries on this issue

4. If there has been no connection you can arrange yourself. Just ensure that builders haven't been using power for tools etc and if so check meter for any reading and phone it in to ESB when you get keys.

5. Planning documents should form part of the contracts and whilst you can search for copies yourself I'd be referring you back to condition 36 and making the vendors solicitor responsible for obtaining same.

6. In view of the stage that you're at with everything I would say most likely not.

7. I would have a serious conversation with your solicitor to see if it is worth pursuing this property unless the solicitor on the other side is going to put condition 36 back in and the builder etc is going to carry out the snag repairs.

Proceed with caution on this one is my best advice to you....