Child Neglect?

LegacyUser

i know a child who is being severely neglected - he is fed and dressed, but has little or no stimulation or interaction from anyone other than his mother. He is almost 4, is not toilet trained and is still spoon fed because his mother is too lazy to go through the process of teaching him to eat. his mother is a family member and is not in touch with any social services - she works and is not on welfare so there is no need for the government to be in touch with her at all.
through my own job, i spoke to a social worker, without giving names, and told her the childs daily routine, which includes being put in a playpen in front of the tv for hours per day(the mother works odd hours, and the granny minds the child for a few hours each morning). the social worker told me that this is definitely a child protection issue and that i owe it to the child to make an official complaint.
i am desperately torn between what i know is the right thing to do, and the fall out i will suffer if i report this situation. it will be obvious it is me who reports the situation, because there is only one other person who would be in the house often enough to see the situation (the granny). to say i would be 'thrown to the lions' (with violence) if i reported this situation would be an understatement, and while i dont want to bring this upon myself, my heart is breaking for that child every tiime i see him.
wat wud u do?

Orion

It's a tough situation you're in. When you say "with violence" do you mean that you would be in physical danger? Can I ask your age too?

Complaints can be made anonymously but if is possible as you say that you can be identified based on the details. You should speak to a social worker in the HSE and get advise on this. There must be processes in place for these types of situations.

Big Bag of Chips

Have you tried talking to the granny, or the mother?

Have you suggested things to do with the child, like a walk, the park, colouring etc? Are you available during the day, could yoy ring and suggest to meet them somewhere to get them out of the house?

At 4 there are certain things a child should be doing... but I have a 6 year old, who often times I still spoon feed.. just to get him to eat!

Are there any underlying issues with the child? A mother shouldn't have to "teach" a child to feed themselves, its something that happens. And feeding them yourself because you're too "lazy" to teach them, doesn't make sense, because it takes a lot more effort and time to sit there feeding them, rather than letting them get on with it themselves.

Are their underlying problems with the mother? Is she, for whatever reason trying to keep the "baby", or is she just clueless as to what she should or shouldn't be doing.

Contact the local PHN. She may be able to come out for a visit, the child should have had developmental checks at different stages to make sure their development is within "normal" range.

I don't really know if what you describe is neglect, or is it something else... a parent who can't cope, or doesn't understand.. I'm not sure really.

But I think first step should be the Public Health Nurse.

LegacyUser

im 27. i already spoke to the social worker who did say there were processes in place, but that due to the nature of the complaint I would have to make, it would be very obvious it came from someone who had been in the home regularly. the mother would be approached by a social worker, giving her details of the complaint and would then have to 'defend' the situation.

the situation is very, very hard to put into words tho. she doesn't drink, do drugs. the child looks well (although he is tiny, because his food is still mushed up) and has no obvious signs of neglect if you passed him by on the street.

but he sits in the playpen day in, day out, in front of the tv, with toys around him. he gets taken out to be fed - she still spoon feeds him. I have always known how wrong this situation is but it really hit home when i recently handed him a biscuit - the child really couldn't feed it to himself - he had difficulty picking it up off the table and it was obvious he wasn't used to eating stuff from his hand. i have a child myself who was weaned and holding liga from 6 months old.
the granny isn't going to report this situation either.
when i said violence, i meant that yes, i probably would be physically attacked. there is a boyfriend in the picture, who is not the childs dad - and he has already attacked people who he though fancied this girl. i really dont want to get on their bad side.

Orion

Food mashed up won't make him tiny. As long as he is getting proper food it doesn't matter from a nourishment perspective how it's presented. I'm not sure this is neglect at all - as Big Bag of Chips said it could just be lack of education/understanding.

If you can you should speak to the mother and tell her your concerns. Ask her to speak to the PHN who can advise in a non-judgemental manner. Or look up parent&toddler groups in the area. This could possibly all be solved with a little tlc.

eviltwin

Give Barnardos a call....they will give you practical advice if you know the family well and give you info on who to call if you decide to go further.

LegacyUser

i have already said that i spoke to a social worker, giving her as much detail as I could (im not posting everything here) and she told me it was a definite case of neglect.

how on earth do you think 'a little tlc' can fix a problem like this????

she has a 4yr old who she leaves in a playpen all day while she sits in the other room smoking - she's done this from the start - and you think 'a little tlc' is going to fix that??

Jerry Jordan

i wouldnt hesitate i would report the family member. I would report my own sister if it came to it. Your an adult sure ur frightened but imagine how much more frightened and suffering the child is.

Ayla

OP, I understand you're concerned for your own physical well-being, which I can definitely appreciate. However, the child's state is, in my opinion, the primary concern here.

This situation as you described it reminds me of the very recent news in which a mother was charged with neglecting her children (they couldn't feed themselves, they couldn't interact with others, etc). Everyone's been knocking around how this could have happened - why didn't anyone report the mother? Well, now you have the power to stop this happening to another child.

I'm sorry that it may come at risk to yourself, but if I were you I would have to report it - I couldn't live with the guilt of knowledge otherwise.

Best of luck with it.

Daffodil.d

Hi, I think you should speak to the mother or Granny first. It sounds like the child isn't meeting developmental milestones like fine motor skills such as picking up a biscuit and I don't know if you have kids yourself but when children are around one they start tryin to grab the spoon to feed themselves. Its strange that this isn't happening. It sounds to me like the mother is nervous as opposed to lazy. The Phn should have seen this a long time ago. If you ring social services, there is no going back.Maybe suggest to The mother that she see her phn.

LegacyUser

ok, this is my sister, altho im sure some of you have guessed by now.
she IS lazy. there is nothing wrong with the child (mentally) and the fact that he can't hold a biscuit is because she shovels food into him to keep her house clean. she doesn't want him making a mess, so (in her eyes) it's easier to feed him this way!
i agree that it sounds similar to that story recently (which was horrendous), but it is all so subtle - the boy is rarely outside, so the neighbours wouldn't even know this is happening. he is not in creche (although she has been offered a place for him).

the reason she does all of this is because she wants to spend her time in the other room with her boyfriend (who is a complete moron). she works nights, but gets home at 5am - my mam stays there monday to friday overnight, but goes home about 11am when my sister gets up to start the day.
my mam wont report her. i have had stand up arguments with both of them about this issue but they are in complete denial that there is any neglect.
it was only when i spoke to the social worker that things really hit home for me.

Ayla

unregistered wrote: »

He is almost 4, is not toilet trained and is still spoon fed ...
the social worker told me that this is definitely a child protection issue and that i owe it to the child to make an official complaint.

OP, this is the part of your post that struck me the strongest. If an independent social worker thinks it's a child protection issue, then it is. From what you've said, I imagine that the mother either can't or won't contact her PHN (maybe she sees nothing wrong with the state of her child, either through lack of experience/education or because she just doesn't care). Her own mother is sitting there contributing to this, so she would hardly think anything's wrong. By suggesting the PHN/etc, you're already putting yourself in the physically dangerous situation you're fearing, and there's no guarantee that she'll even take up your suggestion.

By the age of 4 most children will be well comfortable using utensils and the toilet. If the child has a developmental disorder than that needs to be diagnosed & sorted ASAP. If the mother has a parenting disorder that needs to be sorted faster. The child deserves that.

Edit: sorry, crossed posts with your last post here. Since it's already an issue with your family but your best efforts have not helped, I would go to the higher-ups. Maybe your sis needs some fear put into her.

Won't the little dude be starting school shortly? He'll have awful trouble with the packed lunch Starting school can be awful for lots of kids without the added difficulty of not being toilet trained or able to have your grub at 11am break.

Can he walk properly and talk a bit?

How come your Mum hasn't given the little lad a normal breakfast like bread and cereal that he eats himself? Your mum presumably did that with you and your sister. If your Mum cops on there is scope to sort this.

your sister sounds a selfish yoke.

MrsGoose

You know what you have to do, so do it. A child is suffering and you're worried about your own hide. Apologies if I sound harsh but your niece or nephew needs help and as you appear to be the only sensible adult in your family it's up to you to provide that help. Maybe Barnardos is the way to go from a practical advice point of view.

If the child is lacking so many basic skills how was this missed at milestone assesments? What's going to happen when the child starts school. At the age of 4 surely they're starting shortly in either pre school or primary school. Will the school accept the child if it's not toilet trained?

It's obvious the parents need help, it's a priority that the child gets the help it's needs. I think you need to just bite the bullet and do the right thing.

Jerry Jordan

Report her OP. The child is worth ten of her. Are u in a position to offer the child a home if it comes to it?

Zulu

It's simple (though not necessarily easy) really, who do you love more - your sister or your nephew?

If you do nothing, do you think he'll thank you for it in 15 years time?
In 15 years time, when his life is a total mess, will you be proud you prevented a falling out between you and your sister?
Will it be worth it?

Look, you'll have to live with yourself; you'll have to watch the consequences as your nephew grew up.

So you can either act now, & have been the person who tried to stop it, or you can sit back and watch it happen. ...and frankly, doing the latter is simply being complicit in the neglect.

I hope for your nephews sake, and for your own sake, you find the strength to do the right thing.

clappyhappy

Hi,what a horrible situation for both you and ur nephew. If I was in ur place I would contact a PHN and explain the whole thing and ask if she/he could send out an appointment for a development check up,this may seem routine and may not set of alarm bells,then its up to the PHN to see if there are issues. Maybe speaking to ur doctor he/she could help you arranging it. It would be a terrible shame if this was allowed to continue,it would effect the child for the rest of his life. It also sounds as though he is getting no exercise if he isn't allowed out. Poor kid,but that is what I would do, best of luck.

LegacyUser

thank you all for your replies. i have been holding this issue in for so long, and have been going almost mad myself with the worry about my nephew, and the possible fall-out for me if I say anything. The milestones, that someone mentioned only happen up to the 18 months period. Up to that point, he was hitting most milestones - he walks and talks and as i said, there is nothing 'obvious' to an outsider (other than he looks like a 2yr old) and he's not in a creche, so nothing has been spotted by neighbours.
dont start me on her use of FB to update her status about her 'wonderful son' - he is the most beautiful child and i am so sad about this issue.

to answer another question, i love my nephew more than my sister. My mother and her are as thick as two short planks - im sorry if that sounds harsh, speaking like that about my own family - but it's the truth. it drives me insane the way they behave. my sister has my mum told to mash up his food (sometimes, she still feeds him babyfood for convenience) so that's why she doesn't hand him a crust of bread in the mornings.
i have a child myself and i know how wrong this all is.
zulu, your post hit home the most, thanks. but thanks to all of you.

sometimes, when you hold things inside, you almost have yourself convinced that YOU are the one in the wrong and that they are all right (particularly when 'they' continuously try to convince you of it!). Im glad i wrote this post now.

This situation is going on in a beautiful home in a nice estate in northside dublin. my sister is well-liked and has a decent job and a decent enough salary (enough that she's not eligible for social welfare payments anyway), and NO-ONE would guess that this madness is taking place.
Thanks.

upinthesky

maybe you could suggest the free pre school places and get him in there he is the right age and there might be places left im sure if there is something up they will figure it out?

that's if your afraid to report it

Ayla

Liasar816: any preschool/montessori place won't accept the boy if he's not toilet trained (as far as I know), and even if they did, I wouldn't think that fair on the child...going from where he is now to a room full of kids who are lightyears beyond him as far as development goes...that wouldn't really help him psychologically. I know where you're coming from with this suggestion, but I wouldn't think it the best for the child in question.

Clappyhappy's suggestion of contacting the PHN & arranging for a health check isn't a bad thought...if, of course, the mother takes the child. But, if she doesn't (repeatedly misses appoints/etc) then I would think that should trigger an automatic report to the social worker. It's a way for the OP to get out of directly reporting the sister while getting the same result.

LegacyUser

I've just left a message for the phn in my sisters area.
thanks again.

Big Bag of Chips

There is a developmental check at about 2.5 and at 4 also.

At the 9 month check the the nurse would have checked if your nephew could pick up building blocks. At the 2.5 year one, they check if they can build a tower of blocks. At the 4 year one they check if kids know their colours.

Can your nephew easily pick up toys? If not, (and I'm assuming he has the same difficulty as you mentioned about the biscuit) then that is a fine motor problem and he may need occupational therapy to help improve it.

I'll repeat, rather than social services, your first call should be to the public health nurse. She can asses the child and see if his development is below what it should be. She can refer him for OT, and she would also be better trained, and better positioned to call whether this is neglect or not. And she will then report it if she thinks it's necessary.

I'd step back from reporting her to social services for the moment. I probably sound harsh, but you are coming across a bit rough on your sister, and rather than finding ways to help... like calling the PHN, you are looking for ways to get her in trouble.. like reporting her to Social Services.

Only you can make the final decision, but personally I'd go the PHN route first. If after that it needs to go further, then its down to the PHN.

LegacyUser

While it does sound like the child in question is neglected. I would also suspect that the child has development delay as most 4 year olds would not be content to sit in a playpen watching TV. There may be a physical/mental reason why he can't pick up the food or do the normal things a 4 year old can do.

Now before anyone slates me, I should know because I have a 4 year old with global development delay which means delayed in all areas. My child has great difficulty with eating food and has a lot of sensory issues and physcial issues.

I think if you ring the PHN she can arrange to assess the child to make sure it is not more than an issue of neglect. Of course it also sounds like the mother is not helping matters.

I agree with Big Bag of Chips. The little child needs to be assessed and maybe even started on early intervention with OT, Physio maybe speech and langugage also.

Jerry Jordan

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

There is a developmental check at about 2.5 and at 4 also.

At the 9 month check the the nurse would have checked if your nephew could pick up building blocks. At the 2.5 year one, they check if they can build a tower of blocks. At the 4 year one they check if kids know their colours.

Can your nephew easily pick up toys? If not, (and I'm assuming he has the same difficulty as you mentioned about the biscuit) then that is a fine motor problem and he may need occupational therapy to help improve it.

I'll repeat, rather than social services, your first call should be to the public health nurse. She can asses the child and see if his development is below what it should be. She can refer him for OT, and she would also be better trained, and better positioned to call whether this is neglect or not. And she will then report it if she thinks it's necessary.

I'd step back from reporting her to social services for the moment. I probably sound harsh, but you are coming across a bit rough on your sister, and rather than finding ways to help... like calling the PHN, you are looking for ways to get her in trouble.. like reporting her to Social Services.

Only you can make the final decision, but personally I'd go the PHN route first. If after that it needs to go further, then its down to the PHN.

The mopther is an adult and knows right from wrong. OP you are not harsh to contact social services. You are dead right if you do. The fact the mother has let this happen and not had a health check herself for the child shows just how little she cares. OP i hope you all get the help you need

LegacyUser

Op again.

he does have developmental delay because (at my insistence) she had him assessed last year. he wasn't born with developmental delay however - I can't remember the exact wording of the diagnosis, but the main reason he is delayed is because of his 'environment'. But they came up with this assessment, suggested she send him to creche etc, and left her to it. Needless to say, after getting that letter, she still didn't send him to creche.

bigbagofchips, you are so wrong in saying that my only motive is to get my sister into trouble here. The reason I haven't reported her to anyone to date is exactly because I DONT want to get her into trouble. I do what I can for my nephew but she is reluctant to even let him come out with me and my child anymore.
Im waiting a call back from the phn.

Lola92

OP you have done the right thing to report the situation to the PHN but I would suggest that you get in touch with barnardos also. They can really help in a situation like this and you don't need a referral to contact them about their services, any family member can do it.

PHN's have a very heavy workload and you don't know how long it might take for them to come around and assess the situation. God love the kid stuck in front of a screen all day not being able to run around and play

I would try to encourage you to take the kid out and about with your own family if at all possible, maybe to the park on a Saturday? This way he would at least be getting some amount of proper interaction.

Jerry Jordan

Lola92 wrote: »

OP you have done the right thing to report the situation to the PHN but I would suggest that you get in touch with barnardos also. They can really help in a situation like this and you don't need a referral to contact them about their services, any family member can do it.

PHN's have a very heavy workload and you don't know how long it might take for them to come around and assess the situation. God love the kid stuck in front of a screen all day not being able to run around and play

I would try to encourage you to take the kid out and about with your own family if at all possible, maybe to the park on a Saturday? This way he would at least be getting some amount of proper interaction.

OP its obvious you have no motive, bar love so pay no attention to such comments. Please contact social services. She doesnt deserve to have a child . and i dont care if she has mental issues or had a hard life etc. The child deserves proper care . Dont let this go on another weekend.

shot2go

it sounds to me that there is more to this, if the child has difficulty picking up a biscuit. i have a SN child and the younger they get help the better.
i have a child off similar age that is in early intervention and a SN preschool, the difference it has made to his life and ours is amazing.

i would not report her to social services, i would however ask the public health nurse to visit her and tell her what your concerned about.

LegacyUser

I am not sure what you mean by 'it sounds to me that there is more to this,' shotogo?

the child has been assessed in temple street - there has been no diagnosis of a physical or mental disability - no ADD, no ADHD, no Autism, no Aspergers - he doesn't even come close to a borderline diagnosis on any of the above. he is on a waiting list for speech therapy as a result of this assessment - but that's it.

the reason he can barely hold a biscuit is because she spoon feeds him (sometimes in the playpen) and has never handed him a biscuit to chew on.

the only 'more to this' that there is, are further details on her wanting him to 'stay a baby' that i don't want to go into her for fear of identifying myself.

I rang barnardos already.

they were very helpful, but barnardos don't just knock on someones door 'on-spec' so to speak, so it would be obvious that they would have a report about her.
The phn on the other hand, could drop in and could use the pending speech therapy appointment as her excuse.

what i haven't said here already is that apart from the fall-out for me if she found out I reported her to anyone, is that she would not let me see the child ever again, and then what use would i be to him????
so i can't possibly go down the route of her figuring out that it was me who intervened.

Daffodil.d

Op, you're not out to get anyone into trouble. You have come onto this forum and asked other parents advice because this is a stressful decision. If this situation goes as far as you having to contact social services (hopefully it won't), you can be confident that you didn't make the decision lightly and have explored several avenues first. Best of luck.

implausible

Is she is that lazy and interested in spending time with her boyfriend, would she not be delighted to let you take him for a few hours every week? While you are pondering on contacting social services and/or waiting for action, you could do something practical like taking him out of the house for a few hours, getting him a few books and reading with him or if you got him for a few days, toilet-training him so he will be fit for primary school and not kept at home for another year?