Luke Ming Flanagan is the new Jackie Healy-Rae

rossie1977

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Ming has no influence whatsoever on what happens to Roscommon hospital beyond shrieking about it to anyone who will listen. I've no problem with people doing what they say they will do, the blame really lies with the voters who put him in.

not sure what your point is here, roscommon hospital was the big issue for local voters here last year, everyone and their grandmother (including enda kenny) promised that if they were elected the A+E would stay open

once the election finished only ming (and later naughten after ming forced him) fought to keep the facility open, where exactly does the blame lie with the voters??

Monty Burnz

mikom wrote: »

So shift the Irish people off the bogs their families worked for decades to salve the conscience of the Dutch and Germans who have none.
Up next........ Irlander, stop cutting down ash for your hurleys.

Yeah, you're right. Yerra cut them all down and destroy the ecosystem entirely. Take that, Fritz! The joke's on you!

Monty Burnz

rossie1977 wrote: »

once the election finished only ming (and later naughten after ming forced him) fought to keep the facility open, where exactly does the blame lie with the voters??

They voted for a man who was never going to have the influence to fulfil the promises he made. Was Ming fooling them, or were they fooling themselves?

goat2

ming the bog man,
ray for the road.

walrusgumble

Monty Burnz wrote: »

He was elected to the national legislature. His job is to shape national legislation - not get involved in local bog issues. This is exactly the sort of moronic politics that led to the bubble and the crash.

In what lead to the bubble and crash?, you mean getting involved in rezoning and planning permission (which should be local)? So the Parliament can wash its hands, blame local government?

This bog issue started as a EU initiative. It is for the National Parliament, or Ministers to deal with this at EU level, not Local Council etc. If Ireland breach EU rules, it is for IRISH PARLIAMENT who is answerable to EU, not council. It is IRISH PARLIAMENT, or Minister for Environment and Local Government who deals with the compensation schemes.


Turf is / was an important source of fuel in Ireland. This is a national issue. Decisions in Europe were taking without considering the consequences of people. As a member of Parliament, TD's like Ming are entitled to raise the issue.

Would there have been such concerns for Environment, if the fuel was Oil or Gas, and the Countries being Germany, UK and France? Would there feck

Since when does a county council represent a region or even a Province such as Connacht (where the ban mostly effects)

So long as it is not in my garden , I don't care....yeah?

As for Turf Cutting destroying the environment, your having a laugh (compared to other activities) I hope you run out of oil or gas, or coal, see what the attitude would be.

walrusgumble

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

TDs engaging in parish pump politics and not looking at the bigger picture have a lot to do with the country being in the shambles it is now.

The bogs form part of Ireland's Natural minerals and Resources. The very few that we actually have. It is something that is suppose to be protected by the Constitution (of course, EU law is supreme)

You realise what Bord na Mona do? and what the ESB are doing in the Bog of Allen? Course you do. What percentage of the National Energy Grid is the result of peat? (genuine question)


I hope the Dubliner's remind themselves of this when they are trying to seek water from Lough Ree and other lakes in the rest of the country (hey, some of the defenses are unfair, it should be shared, but bloody charge them for it)

The issue with Greyhound Rubbish in Dublin is getting a fair bit of attention (complaining about a plan that is implemented every where else). No doubt Dubs want the TD's to step in.
This is an national issue.

Monty Burnz

walrusgumble wrote: »

In what was did it lead to the bubble and crash?, you mean getting involved in rezoning and planning permission (which should be local)? So the Parliament can wash its hands, blame local government?

No. I'm referring to the tendency of Irish 'national' politicians to focus on local issues and going to funerals and arranging social welfare claims and grants and that sort of nonsense in order to ensure their own re-election. This leaves them with only a tiny amount of time and probably even less interest in managing the country - which is what their job is supposed to be; either directly legislating if part of the government, or providing intelligent opposition if not.

What do you reckon Jackie Healy-Rae understood about bond spreads or CFDs when he was marching around fixing potholes in Kerry? And yet his vote was essential to FFailure as they marched us to ruin.

Do you take my point?

My name is URL

It's a pity we don't live in a perfect and ideal world, where people make the right choices all of the time; and base their decisions for doing so on fully altruistic and unselfish reasons.

Monty, can you honestly say that you have never voted for somebody because you felt that they or their policies could go towards improving or conserving your own personal circumstances, rather than that of the collective well-being of the country and its citizens?

harney

Monty Burnz wrote: »

and going to funerals and arranging social welfare claims and grants and that sort of nonsense in order to ensure their own re-election.
Do you take my point?

Just to stop this point, at least in Mings case

Ming: “I never have attended funerals of people I haven’t met or I have no connection with. In 2004 I topped the poll in my local electoral area and five years later I increased my vote by 50%. I did not attend one funeral, bar my mother’s, unfortunately.”

walrusgumble

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yeah, that's kind of my point. I've no problem with special interest groups lobbying to destroy our environment 'because their forefathers did', but I don't understand why a national legislator is wrapped up in this when our country is teetering on the edge of collapse for the last 3 or 4 years and for the next few years to come.

Well, since this is an EU law Instrument, it is for the Irish National Parliament, not town council, not county council, to transpose the EU legislation into Irish law. It is for the IRISH Parliament to appoint officers to ensure that these rules are enforced.


You want areas that don't even have decent broadband (just an example, not every town is so well off) , to be properly financed in order to get tanks, pipes etc to fit homes (that are possibly older than the State- well, that might be a bit far fetched) to install oil and gas based fuel systems?

Or what about the millions to be paid for fuel subsidies to the elderly at winter, when probably a skip across their field, they could have paid a few hundred to get a decent supply of turf instead.



Ming, by the way has not complained about some bogs being reserved, he is complaining on behalf of people who are in trouble, about the severity of the bans, complete ban. It is utterly disproportionate (ok, 10 years were given for it to get in shape)


How many people have had to deal with oil companies refusing to come down to your rural home because the order you want is small, or because the roads to your home are not suited for the oil lorry?


I can't think of anyone sane enough to want to keep cutting turf for the passion or the tradition. Rural folk are not that backward.

Great, miserable days in the bog, back breaking days turning turf, getting bit my midgets, needing to take 3 showers to get the muck out of your hair, waiting days for it to stop peeing rain so you can bring home the turf.

It is necessary it certainly ain't a luxury for many, and its cost effective for those people.

JoeGil

I remember seeing him to the fore of the Roscommon hospital protest. Very parochial sort of stuff. A few more of these and he will be up there with JHR.

Downlinz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

No. I'm referring to the tendency of Irish 'national' politicians to focus on local issues and going to funerals and arranging social welfare claims and grants and that sort of nonsense in order to ensure their own re-election. This leaves them with only a tiny amount of time and probably even less interest in managing the country - which is what their job is supposed to be; either directly legislating if part of the government, or providing intelligent opposition if not.

What do you reckon Jackie Healy-Rae understood about bond spreads or CFDs when he was marching around fixing potholes in Kerry? And yet his vote was essential to FFailure as they marched us to ruin.

Do you take my point?

Nothing shows you're an unbiased contributor to the conversation than marching out the propaganda wordplay from your catalog.

walrusgumble

Monty Burnz wrote: »

No. I'm referring to the tendency of Irish 'national' politicians to focus on local issues and going to funerals and arranging social welfare claims and grants and that sort of nonsense in order to ensure their own re-election. This leaves them with only a tiny amount of time and probably even less interest in managing the country - which is what their job is supposed to be; either directly legislating if part of the government, or providing intelligent opposition if not.

What do you reckon Jackie Healy-Rae understood about bond spreads or CFDs when he was marching around fixing potholes in Kerry? And yet his vote was essential to FFailure as they marched us to ruin.

Do you take my point?

I take your point about Politicians.

But I completely don't accept that Ming's activities regarding the bog is some cynical way of getting the votes, or some parish pump politics stuff. The problem with Ming is, its a little too late to reserve the EU legislation, says alot for the TD's in the region at the time.

If anything, this bog issue should actually be a matter for an Member of the European Parliament or Irish Commissioner (well, maybe not Commissioner, due to the need to be seen as Independent at all times)

It is rather unfair for Ming to be compared to JHR, at this time.

Monty Burnz

My name is URL wrote: »

Monty, can you honestly say that you have never voted for somebody because you felt that they or their policies could go towards improving or conserving your own personal circumstances, rather than that of the collective well-being of the country and its citizens?

Yes, I can. I'd rather raise everybody's living standards by 5% than just my own by 10%.

Monty Burnz

harney wrote: »

Just to stop this point, at least in Mings case

Ming: “I never have attended funerals of people I haven’t met or I have no connection with. In 2004 I topped the poll in my local electoral area and five years later I increased my vote by 50%. I did not attend one funeral, bar my mother’s, unfortunately.”

Kudos to Ming on that. I wish the rest of our TDs could say the same.

Monty Burnz

Downlinz wrote: »

Nothing shows you're an unbiased contributor to the conversation than marching out the propaganda wordplay from your catalog.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at there (you may need to work on your wordplay) but I'll make no apology for reminding people of how FFailure put us where we are today. People forget too soon and will be laying the blame on Labour and FG shortly.

Monty Burnz

walrusgumble wrote: »

I take your point about Politicians.

But I completely don't accept that Ming's activities regarding the bog is some cynical way of getting the votes, or some parish pump politics stuff. The problem with Ming is, its a little too late to reserve the EU legislation, says alot for the TD's in the region at the time.

If anything, this bog issue should actually be a matter for an Member of the European Parliament or Irish Commissioner (well, maybe not Commissioner, due to the need to be seen as Independent at all times)

It is rather unfair for Ming to be compared to JHR, at this time.

I take your point.

walrusgumble

JoeGil wrote: »

I remember seeing him to the fore of the Roscommon hospital protest. Very parochial sort of stuff. A few more of these and he will be up there with JHR.

How is it Parochial? I take it that you are aware of what was promised. FG made it a national issue

That hospital covers a large hinterland, covering Mid - South Roscommon and parts of East Galway. The nearest hospital is Ballinasloe, that place is up to its eye balls already (covering East Galway, most of Roscommon, South Westmeath (well use too), small parts of Offaly). Ok, its not far, but not much good if you had a car crash or you were stabbed. Maybe if you had family who died but might have survived if certain hospitals were open (that argument can be made with any place - and I am being realistic about the economy)

The now Fine Gael Minister for Health and Now Taoiseach, specifically pointed out that Roscommon would not be closed and in doing so told them how great they were as oppose to FF. Hence, their man, Denis Naughten got back into the Dáil. FG allowed Roscommon to be a national issue. People like Ming tried to put them accountable for it.

It is one thing to close a hospital, (partially) due to economic matters, it is another to make it an agenda in your party's national policy.

Oh but sure, if it was a Dublin Hospital, that would never happen, because Dublin is the central universe of Ireland (hey your probably from down the country, so I am not really picking on Dublin - love to see a Mayo hospital get closed, doubt Enda would have been allowed back into Mayo)

Andy-Pandy

Board na Mona cut a whole lot more bog each year than a few farmers can ever do. Limit what they can cut, and let them only cut it by hand. The few that do cut turf in the bog take bugger all when compared to the mechanised operation enployed by Bord na mona. Ive a lot of time for Ming, he sticks by his promises, which in my opinion is a good trait, even if i dont always agree with them, at least he doesnt flip flop on them to appease whom ever it is that need appeasing at the time.

On a side note, i respect a man who smokes some weed a hell of a lot more than someone who blindly follows every law of the land.

nacho libre

walrusgumble wrote: »

I can't think of anyone sane enough to want to keep cutting turf for the passion or the tradition. Rural folk are not that backward.

Great, miserable days in the bog, back breaking days turning turf, getting bit my midgets, needing to take 3 showers to get the muck out of your hair, waiting days for it to stop peeing rain so you can bring home the turf.

I know people who love it. There is one man, 85- years-old, who seems to at his happiest footing turf in a bog on a fine summers day.

walrusgumble

nacho libre wrote: »

I know people who love it. There is one man, 85- years-old, who seems to at his happiest footing turf in a bog on a fine summers day.

Hey, from 12-16 years, I made a load of money helping people with bogs. It keep me in sweets and smokes those summers. I won't complain. Better than working in a supermarket or indoors. Ran a mile when it came to my families turf of course... oh the rows

Farmer's Tan. Great.

That man sounds like my grandfather. He had years supplies stacked like Hadrian's Wall in the gardens, sadly a bit of it is rotten now.

Monty Burnz

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Board na Mona cut a whole lot more bog each year than a few farmers can ever do.

Once more...raised bogs versus normal bogs. I've posted an article about this several times already.

flanders1979

The turf cutting issue affects many people in many different counties. That gombeen from Kilgarvan only cares about South Kerry and lining his own pockets.

steddyeddy

First of Ill say that turfcutting Is an old tradition which is very important to some people. Wheter its right or wrong the people who do it have every right to be represented by their td on the issue.

On the laws of the land point. I would have zero repsect for a politician unquestionably followed any laws made by other people whatever the morality or point of that law may be.

oppenheimer1

thebigbiffo wrote: »

obviously your urban way of life is not being enroached upon :rolleyes:...pesky TD's standing up for their constituents - how dare they!

Exactly, how dare they. They are national politicians elected to a national parliament to legislate for the entire country. They are not there to fight for concessions for their own constituents to the detriment of everyone else.

dxhound2005

I didn't read through all the thread, maybe someone has mentioned this before. I wonder did Luke do some sort of deal with the Government behind the scenes, maybe agreeing to tone down his opposition to the Household Charge. It just looks a bit too easy for him the way they withdrew their amendment.

oppenheimer1

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

The protected bogs were "protected" about 10 years ago. For decades beforehand people cut them. Its not like they just rolled into them last year and started to hack them to bits FFS. Stop them cutting turf and what happens then? Should they burn the furniture to heat their homes instead? If they could afford an alternate believe me most would have done it long ago. Spending weeks on end try to dry out and transport turf home is a royal pain in the ass.

For decades beforehand people didn't roll into raised bogs with track machines and exploit them wholesale, they cut the turf by hand.

These people have been offered adequate compensation and have no genuine grounds for complaint.

redzerologhlen

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

The protected bogs were "protected" about 10 years ago. For decades beforehand people cut them. Its not like they just rolled into them last year and started to hack them to bits FFS. Stop them cutting turf and what happens then? Should they burn the furniture to heat their homes instead? If they could afford an alternate believe me most would have done it long ago. Spending weeks on end try to dry out and transport turf home is a royal pain in the ass.

For decades beforehand people didn't roll into raised bogs with track machines and exploit them wholesale, they cut the turf by hand.

These people have been offered adequate compensation and have no genuine grounds for complaint.

I wouldn't say it's adequate tbh but it is all the one now anyway, the people affected had no say in any of it and it's easy talk until you are in the same situation.

K-9

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Turf cutting nonsense! It may seem like a culchie, bog trotter non issue to you but its a pretty big in his constituency. You are talking about stopping people from cutting turf to heat their homes. Something that they, their fathers and their Grandfathers have done for decades. These are people with feck all money to start with. The sort who the celtic tiger never touched. The sort without oil heating (or the means/money to install it). The sort who if they are stopped from cutting turf do what exactly to heat their homes in winter?? Buy coal? With what money? The pittance that is being offer by the Gov/EU? Nobody else is speaking up on their behalf so why the hell would Luke not do so?

What percentage of bog does it affect?

There wasn't. Simply as.

How much compensation was offered?

StupidLikeAFox

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Once more...raised bogs versus normal bogs. I've posted an article about this several times already.

In fairness that article is an opinion piece by an environmental editor, its not exactly impartial.

It is a fact that turf cutting is a way of life for a lot of people, so they should be allowed to have a voice whether you agree with them or not. Ming is the PRO of the turf cutters association, why are you surprised he is pushing this issue?