Are some Degree's overrated?

Dudess

There's nothing wrong with education for education's sake. Or just studying something you like. I don't understand viewing universities as preparation grounds for the workplace across the board - they're not, and they don't claim to be. If you view a degree as purely a means of getting a job, do engineering or business instead of doing arts and then moaning about not being able to get a job. Arts is an education, which is hardly a bad thing, it doesn't purport to be a training course.

And if a person does engineering and hates it, drops out to do arts, and enjoys the arts course, then surely the latter is more valuable to them as an individual than the practical course they despised.

If you find fault with college or see it as a scam or whatever other hyperbole, drop out. If you have a degree and view it as a waste of time, perhaps view it differently - as something it's better to have than not to have. And do a training course or practical postgrad or an internship instead of blaming the degree for not getting you the job.

pragmatic1

Depends on the degree. If its a technical degree like one of the science disciplines, good luck trying to get by with rote learning.

Oh and your degree will get harder each year. My last year was infinitely more difficult than anything I've experienced in the workplace.

milehip1

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Am I the only one who appears to think that degrees these days are overrated?????

I don't know about overrated, but I've met quite a few graduates with an overrated opinion of themselves and their ideals.

Dudess

GombeanMan wrote: »

Unless it's in a STEM related area and not some micky mouse course, College is a scam. This devaluation of college has been going on ever since access to education was widened. Widen the access, introduce the riff raff. Quality declines. It's a money spinner really.

If by riff-raff you mean spoilt kids with an inflated sense of entitlement who take college completely for granted, I'm with ya there.

I've a degree, cert and postgrad and I worked jobs afterwards for which I didn't need those qualifications - but so what? I enjoyed what I studied and I had a great time. Now I'm in a job I love which doesn't require them, but having them definitely increased my chances of getting the job as they have a good deal of relevance to it.
Some organisations pay according to qualifications too, and they don't have to be quals in a specific discipline.

Stavro Mueller

Yes. Especially if you emerge from college unable to tell the difference between degrees and and degree's.

Herb Powell

There are no shiit degrees, just shiit people
/controversial

GombeanMan

Dudess wrote: »

If by riff-raff you mean spoilt kids with an inflated sense of entitlement who take college completely for granted, I'm with ya there.

I forgot to add traditional subjects like Arts, Lit, the classical subjects. There are too many BS courses out there though. A degree in Breastfeeding for instance. http://www.beds.ac.uk/howtoapply/courses/undergraduate/breastfeeding-counselling2

Jess16

The only people who usually knock degrees are those who don't have one

Agricola

Dudess wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with education for education's sake. Or just studying something you like. I don't understand viewing universities as preparation grounds for the workplace across the board - they're not, and they don't claim to be. If you view a degree as purely a means of getting a job, do engineering or business instead of doing arts and then moaning about not being able to get a job. Arts is an education, which is hardly a bad thing, it doesn't purport to be a training course.

Exactly. The Times had a postgrad supplement the other day which gave mini-bios of a few students in different colleges around the country. One guy said he went straight into a job after the leaving and then a decade later regretted it. He decided to do Spanish and....I forgot what it was, but the thing was he had to choose a 3rd subject so chose classical civilisation. After getting his degree, he liked the classics so much he went onto to do a masters in it and if he gets on ok, will attempt a phd. He doesnt view any of this as a means to a job (hes probably comfortable) he just loves the subject matter and learning for its own sake. If he got the Phd, he could take on a lecturing position obviously.

Of course, relatively few people are in such a privileged position, but its nice to dream of doing something like that I think.

Sindri

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

What about McDonalds university of hamburgerology ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bps-xbo8wnA

http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/content/wallpapers/characters/Classic-Ralph_1024.jpg

opinion guy

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

I think University should be about teaching people not only what to think,

Ehhhhh....NOOOOO
Religion is for teaching people what to think, not university. That's the exact opposite of what they should be doing. Universities should be encouraging students to confront orthodoxy and challenge dogma. There is too much conformity in education.

but how to think and apply what is learned.

Yeah that's more like it.

Steven81 wrote: »

i agree with you, sone people from my class never turned up all year, came in last few weeks, got notes , studied like mad and got good grades.

Er ...the smart people ? Odds are they are bored by the syllabus.

Should bring in some continuous assessments.

True - but to a point. Continuous assessments becomes busywork if you over do it.

Sonnenblumen

Dudess wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with education for education's sake. Or just studying something you like. I don't understand viewing universities as preparation grounds for the workplace across the board - they're not, and they don't claim to be. If you view a degree as purely a means of getting a job, do engineering or business instead of doing arts and then moaning about not being able to get a job. Arts is an education, which is hardly a bad thing, it doesn't purport to be a training course.

And if a person does engineering and hates it, drops out to do arts, and enjoys the arts course, then surely the latter is more valuable to them as an individual than the practical course they despised.

If you find fault with college or see it as a scam or whatever other hyperbole, drop out. If you have a degree and view it as a waste of time, perhaps view it differently - as something it's better to have than not to have. And do a training course or practical postgrad or an internship instead of blaming the degree for not getting you the job.

If Third level institutions are not helping students enhance career prospects then they are failling the students. If not what are they doing? The Irish educational system is results based especially from Secondary level onwards and this hardly ends at Third level?

Seanchai

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Are some Degree's overrated?

Degrees.

opinion guy

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

If Third level institutions are not helping students enhance career prospects then they are failling the students. If not what are they doing? The Irish educational system is results based especially from Secondary level onwards and this hardly ends at Third level?

What about the pursuit of knowledge for knowledges sake ?

Far too much research and higher education is tailored towards 5 years plans etc etc. Its bascially turning into engineering knowledge. The creativity is being sucked out of it. There are a subgroup of people who work better as free thinkers and come up with original creative stuff that may not be useful for a longtime - they are increasingly being squashed out of the system.

Seanchai

lividduck wrote: »

It depends, one supposes, on whether it has been conferred by a College of some repute , TCD for example , or a factory, UCD for example!:D

Or the one which teaches students the wrong place to locate a punctuation mark? A very important mark indeed when the poster in question is trying to look down on others for not being "educated". :rolleyes:

steddyeddy

happyman81 wrote: »

A stereotype driven by ignorance, mainly. In reality, it depends on what you are studying, and the reputation of the department. For example, Economics is my field and UCD is by far the best in the country for Economics. UCC has the best Microbiology department in Ireland, perhaps Europe, and on and on.

Indeed UCD's conway institute also has a fantastic reputation worldwide. This trinty = better tosh should have died out years ago.

Dudess

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

If Third level institutions are not helping students enhance career prospects then they are failling the students. If not what are they doing?

Educating them. The career prospects angle might be true of institutes of technology and some university faculties, but of many university faculties, it is not the key aim at all.
I don't think it's something to which a blanket outlook can be applied anyway - different degrees have different uses and meanings to individuals.

steddyeddy

paky wrote: »

college is an absolute joke and a waste of time. i study law and have on average 3 hours of lectures a day. we get very little continuous assessment, 1 assignment per module averaging at 1500 words or so. the only time i pick up a book or read a case is two weeks before an exam. theres absolutely no incentive to learn whatsoever. you would be better off staying at home

As I said before in science Im in at 9 am, have lectures and usually finish with a lab or two which brings me up to six or seven o clock. Then in order to have a chance of good grades im in the library until ten aswell as a lot of other science students. The workload for all courses isnt the same. Even as regards law some people do a sh1t load of reading to further their knowledge on the subject.

Mardy Bum

steddyeddy wrote: »

Indeed UCD's conway institute also has a fantastic reputation worldwide. This trinty = better tosh should have died out years ago.

The people who perpetuate that sort of crap are generally first years who don't know any better about how a university works, any other college student really should know better.

steddyeddy

Dudess wrote: »

Educating them. The career prospects angle might be true of institutes of technology and some university faculties, but of many university faculties, it is not the key aim at all.
I don't think it's something to which a blanket outlook can be applied anyway - different degrees have different uses and meanings to individuals.

Well said. My lecturer today was telling me that industry is creating closer ties with universities and as a result understanding science wont be as big a concern as pushing students towards industry. His wording was "Ireland doesnt have the balls to fight it".

partyatmygaff

paky wrote: »

college is an absolute joke and a waste of time. i study law and have on average 3 hours of lectures a day. we get very little continuous assessment, 1 assignment per module averaging at 1500 words or so. the only time i pick up a book or read a case is two weeks before an exam. theres absolutely no incentive to learn whatsoever. you would be better off staying at home

Speak for yourself...

Some courses (Particularly courses that lead to a professional degree like Medicine, Pharmacy or Dentistry) have pretty intense workloads. 9-6PM days (With attendance checks in the majority of classes), challenging practical exams and a constant stream of assignments.

steddyeddy

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The people who perpetuate that sort of crap are generally first years who don't know any better about how a university works, any other college student really should know better.

I was at a party talking to a girl who did zoology in trinity. The way she was lecturering me about trinity being better than ucd really highlighted the fact that to her her degree wasnt about learning, it was about the status she attached to trinity.

steddyeddy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Speak for yourself...

Some courses (Particularly courses that lead to a professional degree like Medicine, Pharmacy or Dentistry) have pretty intense workloads. 9-6PM days (With attendance checks in the majority of classes), challenging practical exams and a constant stream of assignments.

Dont leave out the sciences! Im lucky if I see the light of day during the week and I wouldnt want to imagine a physicists workload!

Mardy Bum

steddyeddy wrote: »

I was at a party talking to a girl who did zoology in trinity. The way she was lecturering me about trinity being better than ucd really highlighted the fact that to her her degree wasnt about learning, it was about the status she attached to trinity.

I think Trinity's architecture means more to some of its students than its actual educational facilities and teaching staff.

Hande hoche!

Trinity bashing thread?

Satts

"The third degree", now there was a good degree if ever I saw one.

Seanchai

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Trinity bashing thread?

Sorry; let's all just ignore the superiority complex of the illiterates who initiated this by proclaiming TCD to be superior to UCD and the like. If we respond to such idiocy and conceit it's "Trinity bashing", it appears.

steddyeddy

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Trinity bashing thread?

Not at all. I was just responding to someone perpetuating the stereotype that trinity students are snobbish towards other universities. Were doing trinity a favour by setting him straight!

Jimoslimos

vamos! wrote: »

And Arts never work for multinationals? What about the language graduates and the economics graduates... both BAs in some unis

You misunderstand the point I was making, I was referring to those with degrees in the Classics, ancient Greek civilisation, etc. and I say that as a science graduate studying for an MSc.

Agricola wrote: »

Exactly. The Times had a postgrad supplement the other day which gave mini-bios of a few students in different colleges around the country. One guy said he went straight into a job after the leaving and then a decade later regretted it. He decided to do Spanish and....I forgot what it was, but the thing was he had to choose a 3rd subject so chose classical civilisation. After getting his degree, he liked the classics so much he went onto to do a masters in it and if he gets on ok, will attempt a phd. He doesnt view any of this as a means to a job (hes probably comfortable) he just loves the subject matter and learning for its own sake. If he got the Phd, he could take on a lecturing position obviously.

Exactly what I was taking about. I'd hate to see the day where subjects like that are shelved in favour of what Google wants.

Hande hoche!

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not at all. I was just responding to someone perpetuating the stereotype that trinity students are snobbish towards other universities. Were doing trinity a favour by setting him straight!

Fair enough. Would agree with you that a considerable amount of Trinity students suffer from Rectal Cranial Inversion.

John Doe1

Trinity college dublin

Academic Ranking of World Universities 2010

201-300 globally and 1st in Ireland.[10]

QS World University Rankings 2011
65th overall globally, 21st in Europe and 1st in Ireland.[9]

Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2011
117th globally and 1st in Ireland.[8]

Hande hoche!

John Doe1 wrote: »

Trinity college dublin

Academic Ranking of World Universities 2010

201-300 globally and 1st in Ireland.[10]

QS World University Rankings 2011
65th overall globally, 21st in Europe and 1st in Ireland.[9]

Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2011
117th globally and 1st in Ireland.[8]

Dropped out of the top fifty recently enough.

XxMCRxBabyxX

paky wrote: »

college is an absolute joke and a waste of time. i study law and have on average 3 hours of lectures a day. we get very little continuous assessment, 1 assignment per module averaging at 1500 words or so. the only time i pick up a book or read a case is two weeks before an exam. theres absolutely no incentive to learn whatsoever. you would be better off staying at home

Have we been doing completely different degrees?! Because I do law (and history) and my course is nothing like that!

steddyeddy

John Doe1 wrote: »

Trinity college dublin

Academic Ranking of World Universities 2010

201-300 globally and 1st in Ireland.[10]

QS World University Rankings 2011
65th overall globally, 21st in Europe and 1st in Ireland.[9]

Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2011
117th globally and 1st in Ireland.[8]

Have you got thought on your own about their contributions to science, economics ect or are you copy and paste all the way?

randylonghorn

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Depends on the degree. If its a technical degree like one of the science disciplines, good luck trying to get by with rote learning.

Tbh, I'd say you would survive better with rote learning in the sciences than in humanities, certainly if you're aiming for a decent grade rather than just scraping a pass.

GombeanMan wrote: »

A degree in Breastfeeding for instance. http://www.beds.ac.uk/howtoapply/courses/undergraduate/breastfeeding-counselling2

1. That's not a degree, it's a much shorter / lower level course.

2. There's been a lot of talk on this thread about linking courses to jobs; given that that course is linked to and driven by the British National Childcare Trust / healthcare sector, one presumes a need is perceived for people with some element of expertise in the area, and as such should be applauded by those who see third-level education as solely jobs training rather as an actual education.

Seanchai wrote: »

Sorry; let's all just ignore the superiority complex of the illiterates who initiated this by proclaiming TCD to be superior to UCD ...

Yes, why don't we do just that?

I find it usually works quite well; if you don't feed them, they tend to wander away with their tail between their legs.

John Doe1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Have you got thought on your own about their contributions to science, economics ect or are you copy and paste all the way?

Calm down son.

I was just trying to show that trinity has an illustrious reputation in academia regardless of all this anti-trinity bollocks

randylonghorn

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You misunderstand the point I was making, I was referring to those with degrees in the Classics, ancient Greek civilisation, etc. and I say that as a science graduate studying for an MSc.

Exactly what I was taking about. I'd hate to see the day where subjects like that are shelved in favour of what Google wants.

In fairness, Google in my experience have a much broader approach to what they see as a useful education / degree than many employers.

I know someone who walked straight into a damn good job with Google straight from college, and she had an MA in Russian Literature!

I'm sure the fact that she spoke fluent Russian was a bonus, but the emphasis in the screening process seemed to be much more on her ability to think, research, communicate and work effectively in a team rather than on which specific discipline her qualification was in.

And it's those abilities which are exactly what any university course should be instilling and honing as core transferable skills, regardless of actual discipline.

shootermacg

Degrees, are they important? Lets just say a 1H degree tells the employer you have more potential than say someone with a 2nd class honors degree (perish the thought).
It also tells them you analysed the course content and approached it in a manner that ended up with you getting the good result.
The degree itself defines the field you will be working in, the grade gives the employer an idea of your potential in that field.
I can safely say I've never lost out to a lower grade when going for a job...ever, I would also say you can negotiate a higher salary rate with a better degree.

steddyeddy

randylonghorn wrote: »

Tbh, I'd say you would survive better with rote learning in the sciences than in humanities, certainly if you're aiming for a decent grade rather than just scraping a pass.

1. That's not a degree, it's a much shorter / lower level course.

2. There's been a lot of talk on this thread about linking courses to jobs; given that that course is linked to and driven by the British National Childcare Trust / healthcare sector, one presumes a need is perceived for people with some element of expertise in the area, and as such should be applauded by those who see third-level education as solely jobs training rather as an actual education.

Yes, why don't we do just that?

I find it usually works quite well; if you don't feed them, they tend to wander away with their tail between their legs.

If your aiming for a decent grade in science (I can only speak for the chemical biologies) learning by rote would be a silly way to go about it. You need to understand scientific principles to do well in science.

Jimoslimos

randylonghorn wrote: »

In fairness, Google in my experience have a much broader approach to what they see as a useful education / degree than many employers.

Yeah, I just plucked Google out as a multinational example, and I'm not surprised. I know quite a few people in my field (science) who've gone onto completely unrelated careers without a primary degree in their new area.

steddyeddy

John Doe1 wrote: »

Calm down son.

I was just trying to show that trinity has an illustrious reputation in academia regardless of all this anti-trinity bollocks

Im not anti trinity at all I just dont think being a student there automatically gives the prestige some thinks it does. That prestige comes with an understanding of the subject you are studying and only that. Not the collection of bricks and mortar that makes the university you happen to attend.

kowloon

John Doe1 wrote: »

Trinity college dublin

Academic Ranking of World Universities 2010

201-300 globally and 1st in Ireland.[10]

QS World University Rankings 2011
65th overall globally, 21st in Europe and 1st in Ireland.[9]

Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2011
117th globally and 1st in Ireland.[8]

What are the criteria for ranking? I don't think the ranking reflects all that much on the quality of undergrad degrees.

randylonghorn

steddyeddy wrote: »

If your aiming for a decent grade in science (I can only speak for the chemical biologies) learning by rote would be a silly way to go about it. You need to understand scientific principles to do well in science.

I agree, I may have worded it badly. My point was more that given that in most of the the humanities disciplines (leaving aside law, for example) there tends to very little in the way of uncontested "fact", while you can learn off a few core theories and regurgitate them in an exam, that will only take you so far; what examiners are looking for, certainly for a good grade, is the ability to apply, to interrogate and to critically analyse the material. This is even more true in essays and CA, where broad reading and the ability to synthesise, analyse, formulate a personal viewpoint and back it up comprehensively is paramount.

kowloon wrote: »

What are the criteria for ranking? I don't think the ranking reflects all that much on the quality of undergrad degrees.

It doesn't; that's only one factor, and one which imho is somewhat superficially evaluated.

Research funding; international profile / perception of the college; staff publications; online presence (recently); there are a long list of criteria for those rankings, many of which have SFA to do with how well Johnny / Mary in first year will be taught ...

Chuck Stone

Dudess wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with education for education's sake.

It depends who's paying for it.

If it is education for education's sake at the expense of someone else then there is everything wrong with it.

Resources are finite - human desires are infinite.

There's no such thing as a free lunch...

...etcetera.

randylonghorn

Most of the great scientific discoveries of history came about in an "education for education's sake / research for the sake of pure research / in the pursuit of knowledge rather than profit" environment ...

And many of those discoveries created or revolutionised whole industries.

Chuck Stone

randylonghorn wrote: »

Most of the great scientific discoveries of history came about in an "education for education's sake / research for the sake of pure research / in the pursuit of knowledge rather than profit" environment ...

And many of those discoveries created or revolutionised whole industries.

Most?

Inventions and discoveries come from the minds of human beings. Systems (like our systems of education) are a creation of man - man's ideas don't come about because of systems.

[Jackass]

Degree (1st or 2.1) in Economics is bare minimum you could scrape past on in the industry. A masters in Finance is essential for any medium to high ranking finance jobs, just to understand the markets and software alone...

Depends on the industry.

randylonghorn

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Most?

Inventions and discoveries come from the minds of human beings. Systems (like our systems of education) are a creation of man - man's ideas don't come about because of systems.

I think you missed my point.

Ofc inventions and discoveries come from the minds of human beings, not from systems or from buildings or from the scent of the cherry trees on an Oxford spring day!

What I was referring to was the environment in which those human beings worked, environments where pure research was valued for its own sake, where people could explore avenues which would have been considered not worth the economic risk in a purely commercial environment.

And ofc some of those endeavours led to dead ends ... but others changed the world as it then was.

Chuck Stone

randylonghorn wrote: »

I think you missed my point.

What is your point?

Sindri

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What is your point?

That is a long and gruesome tale.

At the age of seven you see, randy, feeling rather randy, decided to sexual gratify himself with a pencil sharpener.


They say they heard the screams of pleasure pain all the way over to 'ol Maud Gonne's house.

Shame really . And from that day, unable to partake in the act of coitus due to the deadly sharp point his penis now takes, he has been obsessed with a fantasy that he is really porn star.

And now you know. Use that information wisely!