facebook & teachers &children

amtaxi

Recently discovered that a member of staff in my childrens school is "Friends" with a large number of the children in school on facebook. They also communicate with the children via facebook.
Believing this is highly inappropriate (to put it mindly) I contacted the department of education and after much passing "from billy to jack" discovered that they have no policy regarding teachers communicating with children via social media or phone/text. - apparently it's up to each individual school what their policies are :eek:
I consider this to be a very serious child protection issue - have we learned nothing from our past mistakes.
How does everyone else feel about this?
Do you know what the policy is in your children's school?

cynder

My daughter tells me the principle stalks the kids pages looking for anything that they may say against the school or the teachers.



Personally i think its good the kids and the teachers get on.

banie01

Has this member of staff initiated or partaken in any inappropriate contact?
As facebook policy is that you must be at least 13 to join(Easily circumvented I know), I'm assuming your child is in Secondary school and has their own circle of friends outside your immediate inspection?
What makes this teachers contact more inappropriate than these?

Have you built a relationship of trust with your child where they will come to you and talk?
Have you equipped your child with the skills to protect themselves online?
Do you have access to their social network log ons? To keep tabs and are you their friend online?
I mean from actual predators now, not people working in their local school.

Not from employees of the Dept of Education who are likely using FB as a tool to interact with pupils?
Apart from this teacher having pupils as his 'friends' has there been any misconduct or innappropriateness on his part?

Because if there hasn't been, you seem to be totally over reacting and treating theis person as guilty of grooming!
While it may be ill advised of this teacher to have an FB presence available to his pupils, In the absence of an official policy nothing wrong has occured(Unless there is more to the story)
FB is currently the 'in' form of communication amongst teens and maybe this teacher feels there is an advantage to be gained if their pupils see them as 'human'?

amtaxi

If a teacher on facebook has 300 "friends" and 280 of these are children do you see anything wrong with this?
How do you recognise a paedophile? did you know that the majority of them try to place themselves in areas where they can be in contact with children?
how would you feel if you child made contact with a teacher/paedophile on facebook and arranged to meet without your knowledge?
How would you feel if something happened?
I'm not trying to be overdramatic but I feel we should protect our children as much as possible... convicted children molesters will admit to using facebook as a way of contacting children.
Finally should teachers not be communicating through the appropriate school channels or through parents

Moonbeam

Facebook is blocked to the majority of schools.
I don't find it appropriate that teachers are using it as a means of communication other then via the schools facebook page.

amtaxi

banie01 wrote: »

Has this member of staff initiated or partaken in any inappropriate contact?
As facebook policy is that you must be at least 13 to join(Easily circumvented I know)
But I'm going to assume your child is over 13?
Have you built a relationship of trust with your child where they will come to you and talk?
Have you equipped your child with the skills to protect themselves online?
Do you have access to their social network log ons? To keep tabs and are you their friend online?
I mean from actual predators now, not people working in their local school.

Not from employees of the Dept of Education who are likely using FB as a tool to interact with pupils?
Apart from this teacher having pupils as his 'friends' has there been any misconduct or innappropriateness on his part?

Because if there hasn't been, you seem to be totally over reacting and treating theis person as guilty of grooming!
A child is a person aged 18 and under.
My problem with this is that while this person may be of good character it is teaching children that's it's ok to communicate with someone in this position without their parents knowing.
Me personally I have my children's passwords and monitor regurally.
I am not concerned for my own children - but I do have an overall concern. I would consider myself to be very knowledgeable on the area of paedophiles and child grooming and this causes me a great deal of concern.

MrTsSnickers

It is up to parents to monitor their children's internet usage. By the way did you use the appropriate methods of complaint toward the school (i.e. speak to the staff member in question/year or class head/principal?) or did you just steam roll to the Dept? Schools have massive leeway over many areas of day to day running e.g. uniform, blocked sites in school, appropriate levels of communication i.e. social network sites etc.

If it's causing you that much concern. Go through the appropriate channels and make a complaint with the school. If you get no joy there, THEN go to the board of management, still no joy, Dept. of Education.

amtaxi

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

It is up to parents to monitor their children's internet usage. By the way did you use the appropriate methods of complaint toward the school (i.e. speak to the staff member in question/year or class head/principal?) or did you just steam roll to the Dept? Schools have massive leeway over many areas of day to day running e.g. uniform, blocked sites in school, appropriate levels of communication i.e. social network sites etc.

If it's causing you that much concern. Go through the appropriate channels and make a complaint with the school. If you get no joy there, THEN go to the board of management, still no joy, Dept. of Education.

Have gone through appropriate channels - still waiting for a reply - have been fobbed off because noone is available to meet me or too busy to take a phone call. I agree its a parents responsibility to monitor internet usage - but at the same time polices should be in place which protect our children

Hannibal Smith

To be fair, I think that's a bit 'funny'! Maybe the teacher has two pages, one for the pupils, and another for their own private friends? That could be why they only have the school kids on it? But I do think it's a bit strange that a teacher would be on a school kids FB page? I don't see it's any of the teacher's business what the students say on their FB pages about the school or otherwise? Unless it's to get a handle on some sort of cyber bullying or something? All the question marks!

amtaxi

The Irish sports council have a policy on communication with children - at least they are aware of potential risks

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Participation/Code_of_Ethics/Social_Media_Factsheet/

silverharp

I dont see the problem. do people have a low opinion of teachers that they should be treated as potential abusers?

... - have we learned nothing from our past mistakes.

erm yes, listen to your children and impart to them the skills to get on with life.

bearhugs

I'm a teacher, and while I get on well with the majority of the students I come into contact with on a daily basis, I would NEVER accept them or add them as friends on Facebook. I wouldn't like them to know my personal details, to see the photos I have on my account of my family etc., and to see photos others tag me in. I don't think it's healthy to allow students, as nice as they may be, that level of access into your life.

Any student who has ever added me on Facebook has been immediately reported for unwanted contact, and after the first few, I had students referring to it in class. So I put it to them that they wouldn't like me to be able to see the things posted on their pages, and vice versa.

I know in my school of over 50 staff, maybe a quarter have Facebook pages, and none will accept students. It really blurs the lines between professionalism and friendship. Your students are exactly that, not your friends. As to those who say teachers may use it for learning purposes, there are many sites very similar to Facebook used for that. I use one called edmodo, where I have set up a class group, and can give assignments, marks, share videos and the like. Parents can check in at any time and see what is being posted, and there is no chat or private mail function.

Old Perry

Are Teachers not garda vetted every year?, i cant see a need for a teacher to communicate with a student over social media but i also cant see any harm in it either, innocent till proven guilty and all, and if it was such a problem/stress a quick 'so you feel its appropriate....' to the teacher (or if your not so gutsy, the principle) would suffice?

amtaxi

@ silverharp
No I don't have a low opinion of teachers - in fact the complete opposite! What I mean by past mistakes is that it is not so long ago that someone may have asked do we have a low opinion of priests. Sex offenders do not come from a specific class, they do not have a specific job, they are not from a specific area - the facts are that one could be living next door to you, could be coaching your kids in GAA, could be the person you have a drink with every weekend - the fact is that until you know, you don't know. Most of the sporting organisations, youth clubs, scouts etc. in this country have now introduced policies covering this area, yet the area in which our children spend a large proportion of there time have zero policies. I agree with you that parents must try to equip their children with the necessary life skills to try to protect themselves, but unfortunately sometimes things go wrong. Personnally I can't understand why a teacher or a person in a similar position would wish to communicate and be "friends" with a child on facebook - teachers are not friends with their students - they are their teachers - and that doesnn't mean that they shouldn't have a good relationship with their students, of course they should, but it should be a professional one. My issue is not with teachers in general it's with the department of education, boards of management etc. having a social media policy is a protection for both the children and teachers. But above all these policies are to protect children, whose welfares come before all else.. "best interest of the child"

Old Perry

amtaxi wrote: »

@ silverharp
No I don't have a low opinion of teachers - in fact the complete opposite! What I mean by past mistakes is that it is not so long ago that someone may have asked do we have a low opinion of priests. Sex offenders do not come from a specific class, they do not have a specific job,

you may not have a low opinion of teachers but your basing your opinion of teachers on actions of people who all come from essentially a specific class, a specific job and background, a unique case.

amtaxi wrote: »

the facts are that one could be living next door to you, could be coaching your kids in GAA, could be the person you have a drink with every weekend

could be very true, but to be fair it is very very unlikely, are you really this suspicious of your neighbours, children's coaches or your own friends?

the fact is that until you know, you don't know. Most of the sporting organisations, youth clubs, scouts etc. in this country have now introduced policies covering this area, yet the area in which our children spend a large proportion of there time have zero policies. I agree with you that parents must try to equip their children with the necessary life skills to try to protect themselves, but unfortunately sometimes things go wrong. Personnally I can't understand why a teacher or a person in a similar position would wish to communicate and be "friends" with a child on facebook - teachers are not friends with their students - they are their teachers - and that doesnn't mean that they shouldn't have a good relationship with their students, of course they should, but it should be a professional one. My issue is not with teachers in general it's with the department of education, boards of management etc. having a social media policy is a protection for both the children and teachers. But above all these policies are to protect children, whose welfares come before all else.. "best interest of the child"

dont get me wrong im all for the best interests and well being of kids, but this 'professional' relationship concept is thrown round to much, many people im sure have an informal relationship with their manager/superior, and is it possible to have an informal relationship with a child. What about the other side of the coin?, what if the teacher was simply to inoffensive to ignore a friend request your kid sent without you knowing?
Teachers almost spend more time a day with children then their parents do, im sure they have a fairly close relationship, To imply that a teacher is indecent even immoral for just accepting a ''friends request with a child'' on facebook is wrong and if the teachers name were mentioned here im sure would be slanderous.

Edit!!: most of this post is mine (2nd,4th and 6th p/graphs + highlighted), the quoting went wrong.

amtaxi

I haven't mentioned the name of the person involved or the school for that matter - and I have no intention of doing so. My children are not "freinds" with this person on facebook. This issue came to my attention. I am involved in a number of areas on a voluntary basis with children and in each of these areas this would not be allowed to happen. I would consider myself to have a very good relationship with all of these children, but also would consider it to be highly inappropriate to be friends with them on facebook. In the case of the person in our school they have not only accepted friend request but also communicate with the children. Their relationship with the children is not informal, it is professional.

LadyMayBelle

Interesting article from the UK recently:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/23/teacher-misconduct-cases-facebook

In my opinion someting should be done; teachers are in professional relationship with parents and children and should decline requests and imo report them to the head; you wouldn't friend request your GP, your social worker, counsellor or a health visitor?

amtaxi

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

Interesting article from the UK recently:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/23/teacher-misconduct-cases-facebook

In my opinion someting should be done; teachers are in professional relationship with parents and children and should decline requests and imo report them to the head; you wouldn't friend request your GP, your social worker, counsellor or a health visitor?

This is my point exactly - thank you.

campo

I would not be in favour of this at all it may be all innocent but as a previous poster said what if this teacher gets tagged during a night out and his pupils can then see this teacher , I would defo have a word with him.

My young lad is also on FB and recently his football coach added him as a friend I questioned the coach on this and he told me that this is not his real account he just set it up so he could send them on the fixtures and trainging dates etc and to make them full more like a team, I was Ok with this but I still keep a eye on my sons FB activity and he can only use it in the sitting room when I am there basically looking over his shoulder

Old Perry

i didn mean to single you out there amtaxi, im neither a parent nor a teacher so my opinion could be different if i was in your situation. and i didn suggest you name the person in question, i simply suggested that if you had and then combined with the general feeling in the thread it would be very close to slanderous.

I was more shocked (by the general trend of the thread) & by how this is being blown out of proportion,this ''something should be done'' mentality suggests formal action should be taken which imo is not neccesary for something as harmless as the click of a button.

Whether kids are friends with teachers or not, facebook should still be monitored, imo anybody who thinks a teacher has a purely professional relationship with there pupils is fooling themselves. in that case adding a teacher as friend on facebook is in the end just a matter of personal preference for each parent i suppose.

wdmfapq4zs83hv

I wouldnt be comfortable with that. Its just a bit, well its a bit odd isnt it.

amtaxi

Old Perry wrote: »

i didn mean to single you out there amtaxi, im neither a parent nor a teacher so my opinion could be different if i was in your situation. and i didn suggest you name the person in question, i simply suggested that if you had and then combined with the general feeling in the thread it would be very close to slanderous.

I was more shocked (by the general trend of the thread) & by how this is being blown out of proportion,this ''something should be done'' mentality suggests formal action should be taken which imo is not neccesary for something as harmless as the click of a button.

Whether kids are friends with teachers or not, facebook should still be monitored, imo anybody who thinks a teacher has a purely professional relationship with there pupils is fooling themselves. in that case adding a teacher as friend on facebook is in the end just a matter of personal preference for each parent i suppose.

I don't feel I'm blowing this out of proportion. And yes I would like to see formal action- now with the teacher in question - with the policy makers. IMO this is a very basic policy which should be in place purely from a child protection perspective. I think the link to the guardian newspaper upholds this point. Yes parents need to monitor their childrens internet usage, but things do go wrong - is it not better to have safeguards in place. As for the professional relationships of teachers with children, I'm sure there are many good teachers in this country who pride themselves on how they conduct themselves. Being professional dosen't mean not being friendly with these children - but there is a big difference between that and being their "friends".

These safeguards are now in place in many areas. This happened because of what has happened in the past i.e. swimming coaches. These safeguards are there to protect, not to label anyone, not to say that teachers, sports coaches, youth club leaders etc are bad people.

I'm sure the parents of children who have suffered from child abuse now wish that similar policies were there to protect their children. I'm sure the parents of children in the Uk to which the Guardian refer think the same.

byhookorbycrook

Primary teacher here, have requests (verbally, i.e in school) from children to friend them,I tell them to come back when they are 18. HOWEVER,many of our teachers use PBworks to set up class wikis etc, post homework and assignments, would this also be objectionable so??

amtaxi

This is totally different to Facebook

Facebook = personal contact
PBworks= geared towards online learning

don't see a problem with it at all!

implausible

I find this thread a bit worrying as the OP seems to be focusing on child-protection issues, rather than the unprofessionalism of Facebook contact between a teacher and student. To me, it's inappropriate because of my own need for privacy and not because teachers are a danger to children.

Parents entrust their children to the care of Garda-vetted, trained professional adults, who are constantly in the company of their children, in the classroom, away on trips, giving first aid, one-on-one tuition and in disciplinary situations. I find the idea that a parent would trust a teacher in these circumstances but when the internet is mentioned, start scaremongering about paedophilia, nonsensical.

I don't accept students, past or present, as friends on Facebook. That is my choice. Some of my colleagues, however, do. That is their choice. There is a greater risk, in my opinion, of me getting abuse and inappropriate comments from a student, than there is of me 'grooming' one of my students online.

When you talk about grooming etc, you are conjuring up the sinister unknown paedophile who inveigles his way into a child's trust, not someone that they are looking at for several hours per day! Every child on Facebook has friends who are adult. Should uncles, cousins and neighbours be prevented from being Facebook friends with young people too?

The Lovely Muffin

If I had children and they were on Facebook, I wouldn't be too happy about them being friends with their teachers on a teachers personal page, however if there was an official page that was used solely for educational purposes I wouldn't have a problem with it.

When I was in college two of our tutors each had Facebook pages because it was easier for them to upload files (notes, word documents, videos etc) which we needed for our course.

The only reason both of those tutors did have Facebook pages was because they both lived in the countryside and didn't have access to broadband, only dial up, so it was easier for them to add the notes, documents, videos etc onto one page, rather than mass-emailing hundreds of students.

I know a teacher from a secondary school I attended is now friends with a lot of the students in the school and some students who were in my class. I personally see it as unprofessional, a teacher having students who they thought in the past and currently teach as friends on their personal Facebook pages, I don't see any need for it.

January

The Lovely Muffin wrote: »

If I had children and they were on Facebook, I wouldn't be too happy about them being friends with their teachers on a teachers personal page, however if there was an official page that was used solely for educational purposes I wouldn't have a problem with it.

When I was in college two of our tutors each had Facebook pages because it was easier for them to upload files (notes, word documents, videos etc) which we needed for our course.

The only reason both of those tutors did have Facebook pages was because they both lived in the countryside and didn't have access to broadband, only dial up, so it was easier for them to add the notes, documents, videos etc onto one page, rather than mass-emailing hundreds of students.

I know a teacher from a secondary school I attended is now friends with a lot of the students in the school and some students who were in my class. I personally see it as unprofessional, a teacher having students who they thought in the past and currently teach as friends on their personal Facebook pages, I don't see any need for it.

I agree with the current pupil thing but I have a teacher that used to teach me as a friend on my facebook page, she was a sub, and wasn't much older than me at the time (I was in 6th year and 18, she was fresh out of college, so she was 23), a lot of the students gave her grief because she was a sub and had a lot of different views than some of the students would have had.

There were 3/4 girls in the class that didn't give her grief and I was one, when she left she left cards for us with her email address on, and we emailed back and forth for a while, just asking how each other was and stuff, we friended each other on facebook eventually, but we do still talk a lot. She's a lovely woman and I'd class her as a good friend now.

Lola92

I am friends with some of my former teachers on fb but only from the time that I left school and was no longer a student of theirs.

I would see it as being very unprofessional to accept students as a friend on a teachers personal facebook page. It is really blurring the lines between friendship and a teacher/student relationship which should be maintained until the time they leave school IMO.

I would definitely approach the board of management and submit a formal request for a policy on online & social media behaviours to be drawn up (this could include online bullying etc. if it is not already being catered for in the current policies). The best way to do this might be through the parents council as a united front.

MariMel

Lola92 wrote: »

I would see it as being very unprofessional to accept students as a friend on a teachers personal facebook page. It is really blurring the lines between friendship and a teacher/student relationship which should be maintained until the time they leave school IMO.

I would definitely approach the board of management and submit a formal request for a policy on online & social media behaviours to be drawn up (this could include online bullying etc. if it is not already being catered for in the current policies). The best way to do this might be through the parents council as a united front.

I would agree with this idea to approach the school either directly in writing or via the parents council. It does blur the borders between the student/teacher relationship.

It is also good to hear of a parent actually being actively aware of who their childrens friends are. On a side note I accepted albeit very briefly, as a friend the 12yr old daughter of a friend as we had all gone to a concert the week before and she wanted to tag me in a photo from the night. I am nothing short of appalled at the overtly sexy images some of her friends had as their profile image....posing in next to nothing, with more flesh showing than is appropriate. To make matter worse I thought that i hoped they at least had a private profile....but no....none did, making all these 12yr old girls profile open for anyone at all to view their photos and access their pages.
Facebook when used properly offers you a choice of what any person, even those on your friends list can see. This too should be taught to those using social media and parents too should be aware of these.

CrazyRabbit

If you trust the teacher to look after the kids during school hours, then I don't see why they can't be trusted to have contact with the same kids via Facebook. It's not like it's been done subversively with anonymous accounts etc.

Facebook is a modern part of life now. For many kids, it's as natural as talking in the playground. And teachers like to pay attention to what's happening in the school playground. Teachers can use it to better understand the kids they teach, identify bullying or difficulties the children are having.

I would however hope that the teacher has 2 separate Facebook accounts, one for their private life and another school related account. The children don't need to be seeing the teachers private life.

So long as the parents of the children monitor their Facebook accounts, there is no danger and no reason to block this.

amtaxi

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Ah come on the OP is very over the top and shows how people are afraid of social media because of RTE Prime time type propaganda.

My reasoning behind my original post has nothing to with any sort of Tv propaganda. I have spent alot of time studying child protection and related issues and am well aware of what can happen if proper procedures are not put in place. I am far from being afraid of social media but do have an understanding of the potential dangers for children if it is not monitored properely. I have interviewed convicted rapists/sex offenders and unfortunately they have admitted to using social media, sports clubs etc to get access to potential victims.

As I previously stated any sports clubs, youth clubs, scouts etc. have these policies in place already and I find it incredible to discover that the department of education do not.

I don't have a problem with teachers being friends with ex students, afterall when they leave school they are adults. I do have a serious issue with an adult, who is suppossed to be a professional making contact with a child without their parents knowledge. How anyone could suggest that a teacher who 280 "friends" on facebook who are mainly children is acting appropriately is beyond me.

if you think I'm being over the top, fine. I hope that in the future that the policy is put in place because it's the appropriate thing to do and not as a reaction to something that has gone wrong.