facebook & teachers &children

amtaxi

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Each school has a certain amount of autonomy and therefore sets their own policies as laid down by the Board of Management of that school usually with input from staff, parents, students etc. It would be impossible to have a blanket policy, particularly when you consider the move in many schools to teaching through digitised resources such as iPads.


Putting teacher/paedophile in the same sentence is scaremongering. It tars all teachers with the same brush unfairly.

Firstly, I wish to apologise for the sentence with teacher/paedophile - I had not written it to tar anyone - I realise the way I wrote it and what I actually meant is not the same - it was only to underline that we cannot recognise a child abuser - they are no "one" type. I have alot of respect for teachers and recognise that they can have very difficult jobs.

I am aware of schools moving to more digitised resources, which to me makes it even more important to have these policies in place. How are parents going to monitor internet usage on computers used for homework, carried in school bags. Our own school is switching to these from September.

Alot of posts have commented on parents responsibilities and yes I totally agree - but with these new resources, it will make it very difficult to monitor. I don't see the problem with having a blanket policy to say "you cannot communicate with students on facebook etc." How can this impact on teaching via ipads etc?

This is an issue for Dept of Education and their policies.

Hannah2011

hi all - just wanted to jump in here. I run a large youth group and the 'friends on fb' thing is a huge issue for us. While we're not 'friends' with the kids, there is a definite more friendly vibe with the kids as we mentor them.
We decided that facebook is such a huge part of peoples lives we will allow friendships on facebook - however the kids have to be aware that anything we see on facebook will be escalated if we feel it falls into the same categories it would during the club. The same rules apply.
I understand it can be scary for parents, but this is where education comes into play. I have picked up on bullying, truancy, underage drinking etc and report it every time. The kids are very aware that I will do this. I have heart to hearts with boys via chat who find it difficult to open up in person and can speak their feelings online easier. Again the kids are very aware that the content of each and every 'chat' message is saved and will/could be disclosed to a relevant third party if necessary.
It is hard to get the balance right, and I do add that our circumstances our different because of the nature of the youth group. If you are concerned about the interactions I would speak directly to the school and try and get the agenda raised and a policy put in place.
also - just to add, that all kids are added with a lot of info blocked from our leaders side, eg they cannot see personal messages or photos from the leader, this is for their protection.
Facebook and twitter etc are a way of life now and the main way that teenagers communicate. It is not necessary a negative thing. It just needs to be monitored appropriately and have guidelines in place.

syklops

I don't see the problem with having a blanket policy to say "you cannot communicate with students on facebook etc." How can this impact on teaching via ipads etc?

The problem is it is highly unworkable. Explicitly saying you cant befriend students on Facebook is fine, but what about the next big social site? What about Twitter? What about Google Plus. One might say it is easier to have a blanket ban and say "No interaction with students via the Internet", but then it means you cant send files to your class to view on their tablets and next thing you know teachers are back to photocopying pages from a book as handouts.

How are parents going to monitor internet usage on computers used for homework, carried in school bags. Our own school is switching to these from September.

Same way mothers and fathers have been keeping an eye things ever since they were using a different kind of tablet in school. By taking it out of the school bag and having a look at it. "Show me what you learnt today son".

We are at the cusp of a new era when it comes to education and learning. So many new technologies are working their way into the classroom. Homework diaries will soon be cloud-based. The phrase "I left my homework diary in school", will soon be eradicated. Lets try and not stifle the progress with shortsighted policies and blanket bans.

amtaxi

syklops wrote: »

The problem is it is highly unworkable. Explicitly saying you cant befriend students on Facebook is fine, but what about the next big social site? What about Twitter? What about Google Plus. One might say it is easier to have a blanket ban and say "No interaction with students via the Internet", but then it means you cant send files to your class to view on their tablets and next thing you know teachers are back to photocopying pages from a book as handouts.



Same way mothers and fathers have been keeping an eye things ever since they were using a different kind of tablet in school. By taking it out of the school bag and having a look at it. "Show me what you learnt today son".

We are at the cusp of a new era when it comes to education and learning. So many new technologies are working their way into the classroom. Homework diaries will soon be cloud-based. The phrase "I left my homework diary in school", will soon be eradicated. Lets try and not stifle the progress with shortsighted policies and blanket bans.

I'm all fine with using technology as a teaching tool - but there is a huge difference between this and sending private messages via facebook or other forms of media, anything communication done within the context of learning is fine - but I'm sorry I cannot link this to being "friends" on a personal page with a child on facebook.

I currently monitor my children's facebook usage by only allowing them to use it when they are beside me. I regurally check their messages etc. From September they will have their own laptops provided through the school (on a rent to buy basis), this will make it very difficult to monitor, I will no longer be able to sit beside them all the time while they use it and therefore will not be able to see "chat" conversations etc.

I don't see how having a policy that prevents teachers from being friends with children on facebook impedes the teaching process.

farmchoice

syklops wrote: »

You are being hysterical and this is the ridiculous part of your argument. A teacher has plenty of access to children in school. Why would a would be abuser risk being found out by sending messages on Facebook when he/she has physical access to the child in question? A would be abuser has 8+ hours during the day to 'groom' the child, plus afternoon activities etc.

An anonymous guy off the internet has nothing to lose and can be a bit more blase with what he/she writes to a child when they are starting to groom someone, but a teacher, even a paedophilic one would be very aware of the student retransmitting their message to one of all of their Friends. "Look what Mr Murphy said to me...". Where as in person the would be groomer can drop subtle hints, or suggestive words, and if the child takes it the 'wrong' way, he can retract it, or say "you misunderstood".

This is what I like about google plus, and facebook has started something similar, in that you can have circles. So you can post a picture of you with a pint in your hand on Friday night and show it to your friends and family, but your boss and AA sponsor dont see it as they are in different circles. Social media is very very new, and companies and organisations are just catching up.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. What a lot of people on this tread have been trying to say is that the argument that teachers would use facebook to ''groom '' kids is ridiculous, farcical in fact, and is akin to saying that fathers would use facebook to groom their own kids for sexual abuse.

Of all the people who might use facebook to engage in inapropreate behaviour with children teachers would be the least likely.
For a start why bother they have plenty of better access all day every day.
Then there is the fact of how incredibly incriminating it would be as they are using THEIR OWN page not some made up profile.

OP ihave no doub you are just interested in the children’s welfare but you are well over the top on this one.

By the way I don’t think it has been stated but was the teacher male or female?

syklops

amtaxi wrote: »

I'm all fine with using technology as a teaching tool - but there is a huge difference between this and sending private messages via facebook or other forms of media, anything communication done within the context of learning is fine - but I'm sorry I cannot link this to being "friends" on a personal page with a child on facebook.

In my opinion there are loads of potential benefits from children being 'friends' with their teachers, and a small number of fuzzy reasons why it would be a bad thing.

I currently monitor my children's facebook usage by only allowing them to use it when they are beside me. I regurally check their messages etc. From September they will have their own laptops provided through the school (on a rent to buy basis), this will make it very difficult to monitor, I will no longer be able to sit beside them all the time while they use it and therefore will not be able to see "chat" conversations etc.

This thread is starting to make sense.
On the one hand I would suggest you ask them for their passwords, so you can log in, and you will be able to see their conversations, but on the other hand, I also see that as a huge invasion of privacy. At some point you have to just educate them on the dangers and then trust them enough to come to you when they don't know what to do. I'm assuming your kids are over 13 as per Facebooks policy. At 13 you still don't allow them private chats with their friends?

I don't see how having a policy that prevents teachers from being friends with children on facebook impedes the teaching process.

School is not just about the teaching process its about kids growing up as healthily and as safely as possible and I think teachers having a little more insight into what is going on in kids lives can help them teach better. As another poster pointed out, facebook helped them identify bullying and under-age drinking. It might also be an easier medium for people to open up and communicate, when they are too shy to do so in class.

during the school day students dont spend any completely alone time with students because it sets them up for accusations of wrong doing. I can't think of a single time when i was in a room with a teacher and the door was closed

You never got grinds? Or a music lesson? Or just a friendly chat with a teacher? You never stayed behind after a lesson to clarify something?

CrazyRabbit

OP. Since you have clarified that the teacher is using their private Facebook profile, then I think it is innapropriate.

Would be a different story if it was a school Facebook profile.

I also get the impression that the teacher in question did not make the parents and/or the school aware of what they were doing. That raises alarm bells.

If everything is done out in the open, and parents are encouraged to keep an eye on their kids Facebook accounts, then it can be a very valuable tool.

Context is everything. So yes, I think the DoE should have guidelines on this, but I hope the guideline isn't an over-the-top "This is not allowed" response. It's stupid to ignore something which is a very big part of modern children's lives. That's more dangerous IMHO.

ppink

Is a teacher meant to be "friends" with their student though?

spurious

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Are you a danger to your current students?

No I am not, but I am definitely not leaving myself open to any allegation that I sent them messages etc.. To do otherwise would be incredibly stupid.

rainbowtrout

ppink wrote: »

Is a teacher meant to be "friends" with their student though?

No, they are adults and are in a position of trust and responsibility and something they say or do innocently can be misconstrued quite easily. Also an adult accepting a friend on facebook might attach a whole different meaning to it than a child. As spurious said in her earlier post, students need an explanation for the rejection as they really do see it as a rejection. They also might see it as acceptable then to contact their teacher through facebook if they are friends with them on it, which probably isn't appropriate either. Better to avoid the situation overall.

prettygurrly

syklops wrote: »

You never got grinds? Or a music lesson? Or just a friendly chat with a teacher? You never stayed behind after a lesson to clarify something?

No never had grinds, lucky me. However, if I was getting one to one tuition in my secondary school then all the doors have windows so anyone can look in, it's the same as having a door open or else there were large windows looking into the classroom. Staying after class would have meant that the rest of the class had left and the door would be open in that case too.

I had a child protection course with the HSE when I was 22, the policy was dont leave yourself open to accusation, leave the door open.

CrazyRabbit

spurious wrote: »

No I am not, but I am definitely not leaving myself open to any allegation that I sent them messages etc.. To do otherwise would be incredibly stupid.

Fair enough. But if everything was done out in the open, it shouldn't be a problem. Just never delete anything and you always have proof.

deisemum

I think teachers should protect themselves and not leave themselves in the position that they could be accused of something untoward or something innocent being miscontrued. All it needs is a rumour to start and there'll be people who'd prefer to believe the gossip than the truth and someone's reputation could be gone.

2 years ago an American school was caught spying on pupils via laptops that were provided for pupils to access school material. The school had and taken images of what pupils were doing in the so called privacy of their own bedrooms as evidence. There's a big lawsuit being taken against the school, principal and the school district board.

syklops

deisemum wrote: »

I think teachers should protect themselves and not leave themselves in the position that they could be accused of something untoward or something innocent being miscontrued. All it needs is a rumour to start and there'll be people who'd prefer to believe the gossip than the truth and someone's reputation could be gone.

2 years ago an American school was caught spying on pupils via laptops that were provided for pupils to access school material. The school had and taken images of what pupils were doing in the so called privacy of their own bedrooms as evidence. There's a big lawsuit being taken against the school, principal and the school district board.

Its funny, this thread was started with the intent of protecting children from teachers. Its interesting, its going more towards the protecting teachers from children route. A more pertinent subject in my opinion.

deisemum

syklops wrote: »

Its funny, this thread was started with the intent of protecting children from teachers. Its interesting, its going more towards the protecting teachers from children route. A more pertinent subject in my opinion.

Both should be protected.

syklops

deisemum wrote: »

Both should be protected.

Thats stating the obvious surely.

ppink

deisemum wrote: »

I think teachers should protect themselves and not leave themselves in the position that they could be accused of something untoward or something innocent being miscontrued. All it needs is a rumour to start and there'll be people who'd prefer to believe the gossip than the truth and someone's reputation could be gone.

.

I have been in the unfortunate position of having a teacher take aside a younger relative of mine and tell them details about me as a teenager..things I did, boys I was with etc. I do not know the teacher either and they are not the same age as me so all of what was reported back was gossip as opposed to fact.
*some* teachers out their need to pull their socks up and start acting in accordance with the position they are in and stop trying to be "friends" with young teenagers they are supposed to be teaching.

CrazyRabbit

syklops wrote: »

Its funny, this thread was started with the intent of protecting children from teachers. Its interesting, its going more towards the protecting teachers from children route. A more pertinent subject in my opinion.

And therein lies the real problem. A generation of teachers who are becoming more and more distanced from their students. Terrified to even talk to them in case anyone suspects something bad.
In our modern world, teachers often spend more time with kids that their working parents do. The impact of these cold, distanced teachers can be huge.

It's just Mass paranoia fueled by sensationalist media who care for nothing other than sales figures & ad revenue.

deisemum

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

And therein lies the real problem. A generation of teachers who are becoming more and more distanced from their students. Terrified to even talk to them in case anyone suspects something bad.
In our modern world, teachers often spend more time with kids that their working parents do. The impact of these cold, distanced teachers can be huge.

It's just Mass paranoia fueled by sensationalist media who care for nothing other than sales figures & ad revenue.

Sounds very much like school in the 60's and 70's when most teachers I came across were cold and distant.

CrazyRabbit

deisemum wrote: »

Sounds very much like school in the 60's and 70's when most teachers I came across were cold and distant.

I also had some bad teachers who didn't care (beaten regularly in Primary school), but I've also seen some really good teachers in the last 15 years who are great with their students. Really involved, constant contact with the parents, friendly with the pupils who in turn really respect and trust them.
I honestly think that teachers who are friendly with their students get more respect from them and the students then learn better from those teachers.
My math teacher in secondary school was brilliant. He was really nice to me and I paid so much more attention to him in class than any other teacher.

I fear this is disappearing. And this fear of Facebook/social media is part of that.

OakeyDokey

For me it wouldn't be a problem. If you trust the teachers to look after your children for so many hours in the day then I don't see what's wrong with being friends on Facebook. I used to be terrified at times walking into the classroom and I wouldn't want my child to feel frightened of their teachers I would much prefer I friendly relationship.

Also when you except people on Facebook you can put them into different lists and each list has different settings. So if the settings are in place then you can stop pictures from being seen by students and information.

It's really about how you use Facebook that makes it too personal.

cynder

http://www.thejournal.ie/teachers-facebook-twitter-pupils-social-media-rule-guidelines-schools-teaching-council-493064-Jun2012/

New guidelines, teachers can communicate with pupils via social networking (Facebook)


New code of conduct says teachers CAN interact with pupils on Facebook
5 hours ago 2,332 Views 13 Comments Share1 Tweet15

Image: THE CANADIAN PRESS/Adrian Wyld
A NEW CODE of conduct for teachers in Ireland says that it is acceptable for teachers to interact with pupils on social media, as long as the interaction is ‘appropriate’.
Guidelines drawn up by the Teaching Council says teachers should take care with any communication with students, including communication via electronic media such as e-mail, texting and social networking sites.
The guideline would seem to contradict earlier comments by Education Minister Ruairí Quinn who has said that it is not appropriate for teachers and students to interact on social media sites.
In March, the minister said that he could “find it difficult to envisage how, in the normal course of events, it would be appropriate for teachers or any other school staff to communicate with their pupils through social media websites”.
However the Council said that it recognises the benefit that can be gained from appropriate use of electronic communications and social media in the current learning environment.
The Council said it also accepts that “there is a balance to be struck between personal and professional interaction in what is ultimately the public forum of social media”.
The core values of respect, care, integrity and trust should inform the professional judgement of teachers in all that they do, including online communications with pupils/students, parents, colleagues and others in the school community.
The director of the Teaching council Tomás Ó Ruairc said that the publication of the new code of conduct was an important and positive development.
The new code of professional conduct for teachers sets out standards for competence, knowledge and kill for all registered teachers in the country.
Poll: Should teachers be on social media with students?

I am a friend

Its not the op's kids... The op heard of this teacher being friends with other kids.

Pebble on the Beach

Just new to Boards and browsing .... I find this thread interesting and can see how some people may have different opinions on the subject - on the one hand it could be beneficial for a teacher to have a facebook 'page' relating to a specific subject matter and somewhere where all pupils could receive information (the privacy on FB pages are always set to 'public' so there would be no danger of any 'innappropriate' communication between teacher/student taking place in private - assuming of course the 'private messages' was disabled) ................. BUT to have students as 'friends' on a personal profile page I think is a different story and crosses the professional line. A teacher has to keep some distance from his students and this does not necessarily mean that they are 'cold' and 'distant'.