Leap Card agents charging transaction fees

Dravokivich

cdebru wrote: »

Payzone are the only provider that a retailer can use. There are if course other options for consumers but payzone have a monopoly as regards providing the the service to retailers.

So again why is a state body allowed to create a monopoly and prevent other providers from offering this service?

But the issue isn't with commission. It's with charges to the retailer for Credit/Debit/Laser card transactions.

cdebru

Dravokivich wrote: »

But the issue isn't with commission. It's with charges to the retailer for Credit/Debit/Laser card transactions.

The issue is that commisions from payzone are so low that they don't cover the cost of providing the service.

Machine rental, line rental, broadband, wages, electricity, bank commision, and debit/credit card charges etc. In fact a leap card top up paid by debit/credit card would actually cost the retailer more than the commission earned.

Dravokivich

cdebru wrote: »

The issue is that commisions from payzone are so low that they don't cover the cost of providing the service.

Machine rental, line rental, broadband, wages, electricity, bank commision, and debit/credit card charges etc. In fact a leap card top up paid by debit/credit card would actually cost the retailer more than the commission earned.

I've only seem them surcharge when it comes to using cards. I've even been asked whether I was paying by Cash or Card.

markpb

cdebru wrote: »

So again why is a state body allowed to create a monopoly and prevent other providers from offering this service?

The state has exclusive contracts with eFlow to toll the M50, M50CL to maintain it, Kellys to provide recovery services on it, Energia to provide lighting services on it. It also has an exclusive contract with Applus to provide the NCT system, with An Post to provide NTMA state savings and DSP payments and a wide variety of other exclusive contracts.

There are lots of reasons why the state only lets one company provide a service. It can be be due to technical complexity (having lots of networks integrate with the Leap backoffice would be time consuming. They could get a better rate from the company if they offer an exclusive contract. Sometimes it's because it's easier to deal with a single company than multiple companies.

dowlingm

It's wrong to say that payzone won't cover it so "the other choices are the retailer or the consumer". Leap should tell its retailers that it will refund the retailer the payzone transaction costs as well as providing the retailer with a margin on all fare purchases but any further surcharges and the retailer gets delisted as a Leap vendor.

The consumer should get their fare at a predictable cost, the retailer gets enough to make it worth their while, payzone get their transaction fee. If Leap can't make the remaining sum work then they shouldn't use this method to get people to buy fares.

Am a bit shocked that these systems are still requiring multiple dedicated PSTN lines for transactions from retailers. The technology is there to create secure IP networks using existing infrastructure but routed separately from the public internet - we use one variant called MPLS to connect our various offices - and the government, ISPs, banks, retail associations and payments companies should combine to get something like that rolled out to make e-payments cheaper for the economy.

cdebru

markpb wrote: »

The state has exclusive contracts with eFlow to toll the M50, M50CL to maintain it, Kellys to provide recovery services on it, Energia to provide lighting services on it. It also has an exclusive contract with Applus to provide the NCT system, with An Post to provide NTMA state savings and DSP payments and a wide variety of other exclusive contracts.

There are lots of reasons why the state only lets one company provide a service. It can be be due to technical complexity (having lots of networks integrate with the Leap backoffice would be time consuming. They could get a better rate from the company if they offer an exclusive contract. Sometimes it's because it's easier to deal with a single company than multiple companies.

All the major Mobile phone companies all manage to deal with the various payment services companies, leap card top ups can't be anymore complicated than mobile phone top ups.

Limiting the payment service is different to most of the examples you listed, which should be fairly obvious motorists don't individually have to pay for the lights on the M50 so there is no comparison there.
Restricting the payment service to one private company reduces the availibility of top up outlets to the consumer, it also means that there is no competition in the provision to retailers and leads to issues like the surcharge.

What it would be more akin to would be say revenue insisting that the property tax could only be paid in Bank of Ireland that direct debits from other banks would not be allowed. ( which BTW payzone also have the contract for that as well so thats the M50 tolls, leap card and the LPT all payzone exclusives. Oh and there is a 75 cent charge for each installment paid through payzone on the LPT).

markpb

cdebru wrote: »

leap card top ups can't be anymore complicated than mobile phone top ups.

Based on what? Have you implemented many contactless transit systems in your career?

What it would be more akin to would be say revenue insisting that the property tax could only be paid in Bank of Ireland that direct debits from other banks would not be allowed. ( which BTW payzone also have the contract for that as well so thats the M50 tolls, leap card and the LPT all payzone exclusives. Oh and there is a 75 cent charge for each installment paid through payzone on the LPT).

LPT is not exclusive to Payzone. You can pay it online, through your salary, by An Post and by Payzone. The only one that doesn't carry a surcharge is the salary deduction.

Also you can pay the M50 toll through Payzone retail, online by card, by direct debit (I think) or using any of the tag operators in the state (listed on this website).

Dravokivich

markpb wrote: »

Based on what? Have you implemented many contactless transit systems in your career?

I don't think he's referring to wanting a top up immediately available to the card when purchasing online. He's discussing from the perspective of "Point of Sale." As with this, the credit is written to the card at the time of purchase.

Anyhow cdebru, the NTA would have needed to tender that service out. I doubt they would want to involve multiple partners as it's easier to minimise any security risks with fewer involved. Particularly since so much can go wrong with a smart card if/when the encryption is cracked. It'll also be a lot harder for Change Management when tickets eventually get rolled out. If there were to be multiple POS partners, it'll have to be written specifically for the codebase per device type / environment, along with being tested over multiple device types / environments per partner.

People complain that there's been too little for too long, it'd take longer with more Partners.

Weyhey

In Eurospar on Hanover St today and was told I could only pay for leapcard top ups by cash. Shop assistant said it was a payzone rule.

I explained I have been topping up my leapcard by laser there for weeks no problem but he didn't care and kept pointing to the payzone machine.

Won't be shopping there no more either.

AlekSmart

Weyhey wrote: »

In Eurospar on Hanover St today and was told I could only pay for leapcard top ups by cash. Shop assistant said it was a Payzone rule.

I explained I have been topping up my leapcard by laser there for weeks no problem but he didn't care and kept pointing to the payzone machine.

Won't be shopping there no more either.

I too have heard some of my regular passengers recently giving-out about this.

Leap really need to look again at it's singular association with PayZone,as they appear to be operating a somewhat disjointed service re Leapcard.

The situation whereby not ALL Payzone outlets handle LeapCard is an immediate Negative and I believe it to be unsustainable.

grainne whale

Avoid Spar in Parliament St. as well, I was asked to pay 50c in order to top up my Leap card by €10 cash - I refused and topped up at Easons in Heuston.

Dravokivich

AlekSmart wrote: »

I too have heard some of my regular passengers recently giving-out about this.

Leap really need to look again at it's singular association with PayZone,as they appear to be operating a somewhat disjointed service re Leapcard.

The situation whereby not ALL Payzone outlets handle LeapCard is an immediate Negative and I believe it to be unsustainable.

The issue isn't Payzone. It's some retailers who "provide" the service available through Payzone.

You never hear people complain of the positive experience, so take it for what it is.

"Cowboys Ted!" as Dougal exclaims while slamming the door hard enough to pull it from it's hinges.

Edit:
only just noticed that this thread had just been bumped up from a just over a year ago

bg07

grainne whale wrote: »

Avoid Spar in Parliament St. as well, I was asked to pay 50c in order to top up my Leap card by €10 cash - I refused and topped up at Easons in Heuston.

If you are at Heuston anyway would it not be easiest to top it up in the Irish rail or Luas ticket machines? No risk of additional charges at them.

grainne whale

I would generally top it up at Eason's especially if I'm buying a paper/magazine. I also top up at Centra in Celbridge who by the do NOT charge a fee as well.

Vahevala

Email Payzone directly and give the name/address of the shop, they will investigate.