New Rival business using my Business Name

James Doyle123

Hi all New to this site but hoping to maybe get some help on this problem

I have been running my business under my CRO registered business for nearly two years, I have competitors like every business but last Sat I had a customer in my shop and they asked had I opened a new shop in the next town over, I said I hadnt so left it at that but then more and more people were saying it. I found out that they competitor took my business name and added centre to it and have started trading,

I have tried to contact the owner but couldnt, I then got a call from a private number (the owner) calling to see what was wrong with me , I told him my concerns but he didnt care and treatened me if I ever approched his store again or talk to his employees. he claimed he never heard of my business and it didnt show up under a google search yet i'm #1 when you search for my business name on google.ie or #2 on google.com

The name he is running his business under isnt registered with the CRO and he says he doesnt have to, even though i did and every other business has to,

So my question to the users of this site is there anything I can do to get them to change there name, I dont care about the competition its the name I have the problem with, or are there any other options oopen to me.

I have made a appointment with my lawyer but it will be two weeks before I can see him. So any help would be great.

I am certain this person was fully awear that I had a similar name and they are using my business's good name to generate business for themselves. I havent been able to find anything online about this new business so it appears they arent even trying to promote themselves.

thanks

antoinolachtnai

You need to see a lawyer much sooner than in two weeks. Time is of the essence here. You must not be seen to have accepted his use of the name. You really need to have a solicitor's letter at the very least on the road to him by Monday.

Make sure you have photographs of the problematic signage and advertising and if possible a receipt to show that he is offering similar services under your name. Also if you can produce ads, fliers, etc. that would help. Try to keep the names of some people who were confused by the name, that might help later.

You need to get your solicitor to tell you the legal options, but this is not an easy path if the other guy decides to be a stick in the mud. But I think it is important for you to protect your brand and the value of your company's goodwill.

Nuttzz

Sounds like a case of "Passing off" your solicitor should be able to remedy this pretty quickly

James Doyle123

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You need to see a lawyer much sooner than in two weeks. Time is of the essence here. You must not be seen to have accepted his use of the name. You really need to have a solicitor's letter at the very least on the road to him by Monday.

Make sure you have photographs of the problematic signage and advertising and if possible a receipt to show that he is offering similar services under your name. Also if you can produce ads, fliers, etc. that would help. Try to keep the names of some people who were confused by the name, that might help later.

You need to get your solicitor to tell you the legal options, but this is not an easy path if the other guy decides to be a stick in the mud. But I think it is important for you to protect your brand and the value of your company's goodwill.

Thanks for the replies So I am right to be pissed of he cant see why Im annoyed that the name are similar. I have a video of the shop front and a scan of his flyer But im looking for another ssoliticitr right now bad time to look at lunch on a friday

Any more info or suggestion thanks again

Axwell

The names being similar isn't enough - its the type of business that is the issue and will be what your case will be based on more so. If you are both trading as the same type of business and the same name then you definitely have a case of him 'passing off' as your business. If he is in a completely different sector but with the same business name then your case wont be as strong. You should get legal advice on it as soon as you can and proceed from there.

tricky D

As he is not yet CRO registered, that fact might enhance your ability to secure trademark rights and the protections that that affords. Not a lawyer, so that advice might be less than the best. Talk to a lawyer and have a search around this forum for threads which have covered this already.

James Doyle123

tricky D wrote: »

As he is not yet CRO registered, that fact might enhance your ability to secure trademark rights and the protections that that affords. Not a lawyer, so that advice might be less than the best. Talk to a lawyer and have a search around this forum for threads which have covered this already.

Just back from post office where I sent off my form to reg his buiness name as my own.

We both do exsactly the same business so he has no excuse any normal business person checks the competition before they startup.

I know every business in every town around my home town that does the same work as me and we all get on ok and share info and tips but its the name is my problem

MOH

If he's trading under a name other than his own name then he should have registered a business name.

There's no protection for business names , so you having the name registered isn't going to prevent him registering the same name anyway. That's assuming you're just using a registered business name, and not a registered company.

On the other hand, if he's nearby in the same line if business and it looks like he's deliberately registered a similar name to yours to benefit from the confusion, then you should talk to a solicitor.

James Doyle123

Heres a quick update

Spoke to lawyer today and theres not much I can do, he recomended getting a trademark.

He said I could get an injuction but that will cost appox 10k and if I lose I will have to pay for his loss of earnings and costs.

I think I wil get a trade mark and see what I can do after and look at costs.

I am considering placing an ad in the paper to let people know we are not assoc. but am I not just advertising that the services I provide are now availible closer to my customers ??

antoinolachtnai

How would getting a trademark help anything? You would still need to get an injunction.

He is about right about the money though.

If you aren't going to court, you are going to be looking at basically writing off your old brand.

Maybe the most cost-effective thing to do is to write off the old brand and start again?

Either way, this is going to end up costing you a lot of money.

James Doyle123

Not righting off my brand the competitor is using it cause its good and would be hard to replace it something as good

antoinolachtnai

It is good because you have invested your sweat and tears in building up its reputation. Now this other guy is going to make a mess of the whole thing and destroy the value you have built.

Swampy

Websitewise as far as I know if you are a limited company there is a protection as far as the .ie domain goes. However if it's just an individual with rbn's there's no protection about getting a very similar .ie domain.

I could be wrong on this. Perhaps someone else knows..

mickoneill30

James Doyle123 wrote: »

Heres a quick update

Spoke to lawyer today and theres not much I can do, he recomended getting a trademark.

He said I could get an injuction but that will cost appox 10k and if I lose I will have to pay for his loss of earnings and costs.

I think I wil get a trade mark and see what I can do after and look at costs.

I am considering placing an ad in the paper to let people know we are not assoc. but am I not just advertising that the services I provide are now availible closer to my customers ??

I don't get that. You said he's not registered with the CRO and your lawyer said there's nothing you can do. How is that possible? What's the point of CRO if somebody can open a business without being registered with them.

This link has the requirements.
http://www.cro.ie/ena/business-registration-business-name.aspx
It's pretty black and white. I thought it was anyway.

I was registering a business name recently and they were refusing unique names because they were too similar to names already registered. I wasn't doing anything dodgy. I was just trying to get a unique name. For example if there was a company called CompanyName Networks then I couldn't register CompanyName Design. I would have thought that CompanyName Centre was a lot more generic.

bogwalrus

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I don't get that. You said he's not registered with the CRO and your lawyer said there's nothing you can do. How is that possible? What's the point of CRO if somebody can open a business without being registered with them.

This link has the requirements.
http://www.cro.ie/ena/business-registration-business-name.aspx
It's pretty black and white. I thought it was anyway.

I was registering a business name recently and they were refusing unique names because they were too similar to names already registered. I wasn't doing anything dodgy. I was just trying to get a unique name. For example if there was a company called CompanyName Networks then I couldn't register CompanyName Design. I would have thought that CompanyName Centre was a lot more generic.

I dont think this is right. I know a few businesses that have registered their names and found other people in Ireland with the same name. Off the top of my head i know around 3 places in cork county called "aromas" that have been in business for at least 2 years. Id say similar places called aroma in dublin etc?

JD Dublin

James Doyle123 wrote: »

Not righting off my brand the competitor is using it cause its good and would be hard to replace it something as good

Get cracking then and get your solicitor to get cracking too.

If you deal with professionals that are not passionate about what they do, then you will get this reaction of 'sure what can I do about it'. You may need to change solicitors, in other words.

I take it there are others relying on you to fight your corner - partner / spouse, children, even your parents? Are employees relying on you for a wage?

When I started in business I had someone run the rule over me as even though I was in a completely different business, I was using a very similar name.

Anyway, I would get an injunction to prevent this guy from taking your livelihood - no-one else can do this for you.

As for the costs, unfortunatley you will have to face these - unless you are prepared to take action yourself. I have initiated legal action myself about 8 times in the last year - I never had to carry out the threat coz people in this country are terrified of being brought to court.

PM me if you want any tips or help - or at the worst go to your local court house and ask the district court clerks office how to get an injunction against this person who is robbing you and your family.

bogwalrus

bogwalrus wrote: »

I dont think this is right. I know a few businesses that have registered their names and found other people in Ireland with the same name. Off the top of my head i know around 3 places in cork county called "aromas" that have been in business for at least 2 years. Id say similar places called aroma in dublin etc?

If you want to protect a business name you have to register a limited company. If your a sole trader theres no protection.

JD Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to protect a business name you have to register a limited company. If your a sole trader theres no protection.

El Rifle this is not strictly true - you can take a 'passing off' action or take out an injunction against another business. The name is protected in the limited company format - that is more or less it.

My understanding is that, if you have it registered in the first place as a limited company, then the CRO office wont register it as a trading name if a new sole trader goes in requesting it. Eg. I cant go in and register Supervalue as my trading name.
In this case where its too late to do that, from a legal perspective it would be hard to win a case with an injunction if both are just sole traders, and at the very least before you started a case you would need to get a limited company registered to help your build your case.
I would personally launch an all out marketing blitz against this guy, name and shame, talk to everyone that walks in his door and make sure they dont buy anything from him. The best form of defence is an all out attack

JD Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

My understanding is that, if you have it registered in the first place as a limited company, then the CRO office wont register it as a trading name if a new sole trader goes in requesting it. Eg. I cant go in and register Supervalue as my trading name. - ***you are probably correct in this
In this case where its too late to do that, from a legal perspective it would be hard to win a case with an injunction if both are just sole traders, and at the very least before you started a case you would need to get a limited company registered to help your build your case. - ****I dont think you are correct in this, the legal status of the business makes no difference - you can be a partnership, sole trader or limited company - you still have rights
I would personally launch an all out marketing blitz against this guy, name and shame, talk to everyone that walks in his door and make sure they dont buy anything from him. The best form of defence is an all out attack - ****probably the best route. The other businessperson will look like the $%^anker ihe is, and people will say 'fair play to you, you don't have take this sort of crap'. Use it as an excuse to contact all past customers - I can tell you the Euros10,000 you could waste on legal fees will go a hell of a long way to promote your business

Good luck

The Corinthian

I'd probably look to reporting him for running an unregistered business. Then he'll likely get a call telling him he has to register the business name - or else. When he goes to do so, he'll find you've already done so and he'll then be forced to register under a different name.

antoinolachtnai

You should try that, but there is no problem with registering a business name for a name that is already registered. That is all it is - a registration -. It gives no priority whatsoever. The clerk may refuse to register a name for fear of confusion, but you can appeal this decision.

bogwalrus

Deleted User wrote: »

My understanding is that, if you have it registered in the first place as a limited company, then the CRO office wont register it as a trading name if a new sole trader goes in requesting it. Eg. I cant go in and register Supervalue as my trading name.
In this case where its too late to do that, from a legal perspective it would be hard to win a case with an injunction if both are just sole traders, and at the very least before you started a case you would need to get a limited company registered to help your build your case.
I would personally launch an all out marketing blitz against this guy, name and shame, talk to everyone that walks in his door and make sure they dont buy anything from him. The best form of defence is an all out attack

I think it is the trademark where you will have the issue regarding using the name supervalue. I think You can register the name supervalue with the cro but will most likely encounter super value lawyers if you engage in the supermarket trade and have a logo that looks similar etc.

mlumley

A friend of mine had a busines on line making handmade soap etc. She traded under the name of Naked Soap. She was advised to trademark the name. She didnt. Result, someone else registered the name as a trademark. She was told then to stop trading under that name. Trade mark is the way to go.

jimoc

One of the things that this guy is doing is taking business away from you by trying to pass his business off as yours.
Why not park a car outside his business and put a big sign in the window that basically states that the business is not associated in any way with your business?

hugebogtotter

jimoc wrote: »

One of the things that this guy is doing is taking business away from you by trying to pass his business off as yours.
Why not park a car outside his business and put a big sign in the window that basically states that the business is not associated in any way with your business?

Or why don't you just focus on your own business and do it better than the opposition. If this guy is as irresponsible as it sounds you got nothing to worry about in the long run.
If you allow your focus to be dragged into external matters such as this your own business will probably suffer. Just my thoughts.