Irish age of consent - Can I sleep with my new GF?

elpipe

Me and my 16 year old girlfriend from England are going to Ireland on vacation. I am 23 years old and in England I can legally have sex with her. But what happens in Ireland, can I be charged for rape?

Edit: Is there a difference if you are a tourist or if you live in Ireland?

Paulw

The age of consent is 17 in Ireland.

Tourist or not, the same law applies.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html

Procrastastudy

Expect some VERY different attitudes this side of the Irish Sea my fellow countryman

I'd wait until she's 18 before coming here as you will be seen a poor light showing her affection out and about!

Also whats the point in coming to Ireland if you aren't going to the pubs!

krd

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Also whats the point in coming to Ireland if you aren't going to the pubs!

Dutch Gold, a bit a hash,,,,maybe a few pills.


But I think since that big bust, there's a drought.....And the only people dealing are the garda....And they'd skin ya.

Procrastastudy

I'm sorry but Carling Black Label or Tennants Special Brew > Dutch Gold!

Jesus what big bust?! - my neigbours have gone missing!

nuac

Leaving aside all statutory provisions a 23 year old should not be sleeping with a 16 year old.

16 y.o. girls think they are mature enough to handle this. I have three daughters and I strongly disagree.

This would not happen under my roof

johnners2981

nuac wrote: »

Leaving aside all statutory provisions a 23 year old should not be sleeping with a 16 year old.

16 y.o. girls think they are mature enough to handle this. I have three daughters and I strongly disagree.

This would not happen under my roof

It's not under your roof

wmpdd3

I never knew the age of consent was 17 :0
Have a look in the maternity hospitals!

MrStuffins

nuac wrote: »

Leaving aside all statutory provisions a 23 year old should not be sleeping with a 16 year old.

16 y.o. girls think they are mature enough to handle this. I have three daughters and I strongly disagree.

This would not happen under my roof

A 16 year old IS mature enough to handle a sexual relationship.

Maybe your daughters aren't, but not all 16 year olds are your children.

smcgiff

elpipe wrote: »

Edit: Is there a difference if you are a tourist or if you live in Ireland?

My money is on the 16 yo being the mature one in the relationship.

carl.r

{SNIP}


MOD NOTE: User sitebanned as serial re-reg.

mikemac1

It doesn't matter if you're coming over as a tourist, the law applies to you too when you get here

MrStuffins

carl.r wrote: »

Dare I be so blunt here,
Many many underage people are having sex. Be it with other underage people or with people above the legal age. Its happening all around us. But its only an issue if he/she or the parents inform the Gardai.

16 is not 15, 14 or 13 in my book. That would be entering sick terrority.

Not true, the law is the law!

Procrastastudy

Different cultures have different attitudes. The one that previals in Ireland is 17. In some countries its as low as 14. Anyone in Ireland having sex with an underage girl deserves a few years in the joy.

The only exception to this is if they are around the same age or both under age.

Most people in their 20's and 30's dont switch the brain on when it comes to sex how do you expect a 16 year old to?!

MrStuffins

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Different cultures have different attitudes. The one that previals in Ireland is 17. In some countries its as low as 14. Anyone in Ireland having sex with an underage girl deserves a few years in the joy.

The only exception to this is if they are around the same age or both under age.

Most people in their 20's and 30's dont switch the brain on when it comes to sex how do you expect a 16 year old to?!

This is not true either. Now, you're the law student here so correct me if i'm wrong, but in the case where both participants are underage, it is the male who is at fault.

There was a court case regarding this very thing settled not so long ago in the Supreme Court.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is not true either. Now, you're the law student here so correct me if i'm wrong, but in the case where both participants are underage, it is the male who is at fault.

There was a court case regarding this very thing settled not so long ago in the Supreme Court.

Literally last week and was all over the newspaper. Unforgivable to be a law student and not know that case. It was part of the glut of judgments given before Macken J and Finnigan J retired.

Procrastastudy

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is not true either. Now, you're the law student here so correct me if i'm wrong, but in the case where both participants are underage, it is the male who is at fault.

There was a court case regarding this very thing settled not so long ago in the Supreme Court.

I was making an statement based on personal feelings and morality rather than the law, which apart from in the age it has chosen - is a stupid law.

GCDLawstudent

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I was making an statement based on personal feelings and morality rather than the law, which apart from in the age it has chosen - is a stupid law.

While I tend to agree re: the differentiation between men and women you were clearly making a statement as to the effect of the law.

MrStuffins

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I was making an statement based on personal feelings and morality rather than the law, which apart from in the age it has chosen - is a stupid law.

Well if you base it on morality, I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that the age is 17! 17, when not speaking about the actual law, seems a very arbitrary age to chose. If anything i'd have thought it was 18 as this is the age where we are considered to have become an adult, old enough to smoke, drink, vote etc.

In cases of "morality", I really think it should come down to the individual case. There's a hell of a difference between a couple where the man is a 20 and the girl an immature 16, than another couple where you've got an immature 20 year old man and a very mature 16 year old.

But as far as the law goes, 17 seems ok!

johnners2981

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is not true either. Now, you're the law student here so correct me if i'm wrong, but in the case where both participants are underage, it is the male who is at fault.

There was a court case regarding this very thing settled not so long ago in the Supreme Court.

I don't think this is fair at all, was it because of the circumstances in the case or is this judgement going to be applied in all similar cases?

Procrastastudy

Deleted User wrote: »

While I tend to agree re: the differentiation between men and women you were clearly making a statement as to the effect of the law.

I'm not sure how you get to that conclusion but I will admit I didn't choose my words well. It doesn't matter if it's a boy or a girl. The issue these days is STI and effects both parties in the same way.

That being said you will never stop teenagers having sex - what you can try and prevent is older an older party taking advantage of a younger vunreble party. There is a massive difference between a 16 year old and 18 year old and a 21 year old.

As to the other poster I would say that 18 is the better age as, although it is correct to say there are differing levels of maturity, this is the age of majority. The law should have the sexist element removed and address pragmaticly that teenagers have sex - it goes someway towards this even now.

full_irish

23 year old sleeping with a 16 year old?

Ever hear of 'half your age plus 7' you sick bastard?!

MrStuffins

johnners2981 wrote: »

I don't think this is fair at all, was it because of the circumstances in the case or is this judgement going to be applied in all similar cases?

The reason given was that the law apparently states that the girl is the vulnerable one in that situation because she can fall pregnant.

Absolute bullsh*t if you ask me!

gammygils

If she wants to & you want to just do it. Enjoy! Safely of course

Atlantis50

elpipe wrote: »

Me and my 16 year old girlfriend from England are going to Ireland on vacation. I am 23 years old and in England I can legally have sex with her. But what happens in Ireland, can I be charged for rape?

Edit: Is there a difference if you are a tourist or if you live in Ireland?

Legally you can't have sex with her while your in Ireland, but where did you plan on having sex? Outside a Garda (Police) station?

MyKeyG

Is it the school uniform OP? Because a lot of older girls are into that too:D

MrStuffins

gammygils wrote: »

If she wants to & you want to just do it. Enjoy! Safely of course

This is bad advice. If you do so, you will be commiting statuatory rape, breaking the law, and could end up in jail.

Procrastastudy

gammygils wrote: »

If she wants to & you want to just do it. Enjoy! Safely of course

I think this is refered to as the Gary Glitter argument... you want to be in my gang? No thanks.

blueythebear

The law aside...

A 23 year old is at a stage in life where they have finished college. A 16 year old may have just finished their Junior Cert. That's two people at VERY different stages of life and there is a huge difference in levels of maturity. I'm of the view that a 23 year old shouldn't be going out with a 16 year old. I'm not prudish or old fashioned, I just think that the gap at that stage of development is too large.

As to the law, the age of consent in Ireland is 17. If you have sex with her, you are breaking the law. However, unless you are caught in the act, it would be impossible to secure a conviction against you. So the only witnesses would be you and your girlfriend. However, what's to stop her making a complaint about you if you get into an argument and she wants to get back at you somehow? She is only a kid after all and may not necessarily realise the implications of what she's doing.

I'd suggest keeping it in your pants if you come over here. Better safe than sorry.

Plumpynuter

The minority report division of the Garda will burst in just before penetration. Its off to the Magdalene laundry's for her then and you will get a 30 year stretch cutting turf in the west.

We take this stuff very serious in the Republic of Ireland

syklops

However, what's to stop her making a complaint about you if you get into an argument and she wants to get back at you somehow? She is only a kid after all and may not necessarily realise the implications of what she's doing.

My 16 year old self is highly offended by that comment. Only a kid and may not realise the implications of shopping her boyfriend to the police? At 16? Come on.

NoQuarter

syklops wrote: »

My 16 year old self is highly offended by that comment. Only a kid and may not realise the implications of shopping her boyfriend to the police? At 16? Come on.

Well you are a kid in the eyes of the law for 2 more years. And I think it is fair to say that a 16 year old MAY not understand the full implications of making a complaint like that to the garda over here, ie that her boyfriend could get up to 5 years imprisonment.

I think the very fact that you took offence to that statement proves the point.

blueythebear

syklops wrote: »

My 16 year old self is highly offended by that comment. Only a kid and may not realise the implications of shopping her boyfriend to the police? At 16? Come on.

Maybe not. I've seen 16 year olds do dumber things. You may not be representative of all 16 year olds. It's not necessarily stupidity either that might lead her to shop her boyfriend to the police. She may feel hurt and want to get back at him whatever way she can.

A 16 year old girl might just think she's found the love of her life in a 23 year old, who might see the relationship as a bit of a lark. What if he breaks up with her or is with someone else? Fully grown adults can do crazy stuff when it comes to relationships so it stands to reason that a lovestruck 16 year old can react just as irrationally.

NoQuarter

For clarity sake I thought I would give a breakdown:



ANY person who engages in a sexual act (or attempts to) with a person under 17 is guilty of an offence.(5 years) Honest belief they were 17 is a defence, consent is not.

ANY person who engages in a sexual act (or attempts to) with a person under 15 is guilty of an offence. (Life sentence) Honest belief is a defence, consent is not. Honest belief is in relation to the child being 15 so if the honest belief was that the child was 15, they could still be liable under the previos offence.

Now the provision that causes all the hassle: A female child under the age of 17 years shall not be guilty of an offence under this Act by reason only of her engaging in an act of sexual intercourse.

So this means the following:

If the girl is over 17, she can be convicted of any of the above 2 offenced depending on the boys age.

If the girl is under 17, she cannot be convicted of any of the above offences.

If the boy is over 17, he can be convicted of any of the above offences depending on the girls age.

If the boy is under 17, he can only be convicted of the above offences if he is above the age of 12. And even if he is, if he is under 14, the DPP's consent is needed to bring the charges. So technically from 14 to 17 the boy is liable while the girl is not.



Doesnt really make sense to anyone but parliament drafted the legislation and the courts upheld it twice now so there must be something I'm missing! The pregnancy justification just doesnt sit well with me.

Marcusm

Plumpynuter wrote: »

The minority report division of the Garda will burst in just before penetration. Its off to the Magdalene laundry's for her then and you will get a 30 year stretch cutting turf in the west.

We take this stuff very serious in the Republic of Ireland

Someone's not read their PK Dick very well; it's the Pre Crime Division with a minority report indicating that one of the precogs has formed a different opinion to the others!!

Sorry to break into what was one of the wittier posts in the thread!.

MagicMarker

MrStuffins wrote: »

A 16 year old IS mature enough to handle a sexual relationship.

C'mon man you know it's not so black and white, some 16 year olds maybe yes, but some 16 year olds certainly no. Some 16 year olds are still very much children.

blueythebear

blueythebear wrote: »

A 16 year old may have just finished their Junior Cert.

Or they may be in their second year of uni.
Since we don't know the OP or his gf, I think we should stick to the legal side of it

blueythebear

bluewolf wrote: »

Or they may be in their second year of uni.
Since we don't know the OP or his gf, I think we should stick to the legal side of it

I take your point but it's maybe a little pedantic. If one could obtain a breakdown of 16 year olds in the Irish education system, I would respectfully suggest that at least 99% are in second level education. Of 23 year olds, I would also say that most have finished their undergrad. Therefore, a huge disparity in life experience.

This is not necessarily relevant to the legal side of it (never mind the fact that the legal side was addressed by my post and was also much more ably addressed by other posters) but it's still relevant. Just because something is not illegal, doesn't mean everyone thinks it's ok. A 50 year old man sleeping with a 17 year is theoretically ok but I don't think that I'd be the only one thinking that that's a bit creepy. Although I'm sure I'll have a different view when I'm 50...

johnnyskeleton

MrStuffins wrote: »

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Different cultures have different attitudes. The one that previals in Ireland is 17. In some countries its as low as 14. Anyone in Ireland having sex with an underage girl deserves a few years in the joy.

The only exception to this is if they are around the same age or both under age.

Most people in their 20's and 30's dont switch the brain on when it comes to sex how do you expect a 16 year old to?!

This is not true either. Now, you're the law student here so correct me if i'm wrong, but in the case where both participants are underage, it is the male who is at fault.

There was a court case regarding this very thing settled not so long ago in the Supreme Court.

Some Places do have such rules, or Romeo and Juliet clauses. Curiously, the more liberal us states don't have them butthe more conservative ones do.

We also have a modified version, but that only applies to sex offenders registration.

GombeanMan

bluewolf wrote: »

Or they may be in their second year of uni.
Since we don't know the OP or his gf, I think we should stick to the legal side of it

It's possible, but I highly doubt it. The vast majority of people sitting the Leaving Cert are 17-19 years of age. The age gap is too wide in my eyes. A 23 year old has different priorities to a 16 year old. 16 year olds are children FFS.

FreudianSlippers

OP asked and answered. We have no real need to judge the OP based on his relationship which is legal in his jurisdiction.