National Children's Hospital

SeaSide

From the Herald

"Now new proposals have come forward including a site submitted by a group of farmers in north Dublin."

http://www.herald.ie/news/hospital-group-spend-115k-on-fees-and-meals-3045287.html

Anyone heard anything about this?

Would prefer a hospital over a sewage works myself

robertpatterson

Would the patients not complainabout the smell (sorry couldnt help myself)

Cardinal Richelieu

SeaSide wrote: »

From the Herald

"Now new proposals have come forward including a site submitted by a group of farmers in north Dublin."

http://www.herald.ie/news/hospital-group-spend-115k-on-fees-and-meals-3045287.html

Anyone heard anything about this?

Would prefer a hospital over a sewage works myself

Yes it was in the Irish Times earlier in the week and on the RTE news. I think now every council area in Dublin has made a claim to the new Children Hospital.:mad: Imagine the outrage if Reilly gives the OK to a hospital near his constituency.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/childrens-hospital-can-be-built-in-four-years-3041662.html

Madpaddy79

As there are no hospitals in NCD as it stands, why would there be outrage? Only section of Dublin without a hospital. Think it would be a very suitable location, m1 / m50 links nearby. Plus the land is pretty much worthless, so they could get a good deal on price.

Littlehorny

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

As there are no hospitals in NCD as it stands, why would there be outrage? Only section of Dublin without a hospital. Think it would be a very suitable location, m1 / m50 links nearby. Plus the land is pretty much worthless, so they could get a good deal on price.

I thought i read these farmers are donating about 30 from their 200 acre farm but they will still own the land, must be a way they can make more money off the deal in the long term.

The Hill Billy

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

As there are no hospitals in NCD as it stands, why would there be outrage? Only section of Dublin without a hospital. Think it would be a very suitable location, m1 / m50 links nearby. Plus the land is pretty much worthless, so they could get a good deal on price.

What you say is true. But there may be "Outrage" over what some will perceive as favoritism on the part of the Minister for Health by locating a hospital in his constituency.

Zagato

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

As there are no hospitals in NCD as it stands, why would there be outrage? Only section of Dublin without a hospital. Think it would be a very suitable location, m1 / m50 links nearby. Plus the land is pretty much worthless, so they could get a good deal on price.

What you say is true. But there may be "Outrage" over what some will perceive as favoritism on the part of the Minister for Health by locating a hospital in his constituency.

Co-locating a hospital, that is, so he'd have to build an adult hospital too. To be fair I think at minimum NCD could do with a maternity hospital (Dublin needs 4th one anyway) and probably an adult hospital too. But I can't see it happening.

Madpaddy79

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

As there are no hospitals in NCD as it stands, why would there be outrage? Only section of Dublin without a hospital. Think it would be a very suitable location, m1 / m50 links nearby. Plus the land is pretty much worthless, so they could get a good deal on price.

What you say is true. But there may be "Outrage" over what some will perceive as favoritism on the part of the Minister for Health by locating a hospital in his constituency.

Sure doesn't every politician look after their own first. ( most under the radar ). Isnt that why they are voted in. As op say, maternity required, general hospital required, with correct planning this can all
be added at a future date.

Perception aside, NCD is a good location compared to original site and would be greatly welcomed be the people of NCD.

Dr Reilly should make a stand ( if he meets objection ) and bring it to NCD.

robertpatterson

Yeah if only Dr Reilly knew someone who owned nursing homes hed be able to put the hospital in beside them as well;)

Cardinal Richelieu

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

As there are no hospitals in NCD as it stands, why would there be outrage? Only section of Dublin without a hospital. Think it would be a very suitable location, m1 / m50 links nearby. Plus the land is pretty much worthless, so they could get a good deal on price.

St Ita Hospital which will be upgraded to the Central Mental Hospital in the future.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/mental-hospital-moving-to-portrane-3033117.html

€ 750 million Teaching Hospital for planned for the Belcamp site, last time I heard it was been pushed hard by FCC but then again they thought the Metro North was going to be built beside the site.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/masterplan-for-belcamp-site-high-council-priority-2476738.html

So add in then the Childrens Hospital into the same catchment area, its going to be a hard sell for Reilly to explain why 3 major hospitals sprang up in his backyard since he became Minister of Health. Reminds voters of the bad old decentralisation days of FF when every Minister suddenly decentralised a part of his ministery to his constituency or spent a substantial amount of his budget there. Yes we all known DCN is under resourced with Hospitals but I doubt the Southsiders, West Dubs and South Greater Dublin(Kildare, Wicklow) will pay attention to the fine details such as that.

golfwallah

At the end of the day, the Minister will have to weight up all the facts and then make a decision to do what he thinks is right in the best interest of most of Irish citizens, children in particular.

That's his job, that's what we elect Governments for - to get the job done - not to try to be populist to any subsections of the community - North, South or West of Dublin.

A tough job - I wish him all the best - no matter what he does, he will be a loser in some peoples' eyes.

Madpaddy79

Ah but st Ita's is over 100 years old, being replaced by a smaller facility,

Don't think belcamp is considered to be north county Dublin. Dublin city north maybe.

Doubt he would meet to much resistance there.

RobFowl

Zagato wrote: »

Co-locating a hospital, that is, so he'd have to build an adult hospital too. To be fair I think at minimum NCD could do with a maternity hospital (Dublin needs 4th one anyway) and probably an adult hospital too. But I can't see it happening.

Dublin needs more hospitals like a hole in the head. What we needs are less but better organised and run ones....

Meshel

I personally think the childrens hospital should be on a site that has plenty of room for ALL the services required on ONE site, this way we can be super efficient in all areas of care & research. If NCD happens to be the best option then why not. We have vast areas of open space which could be developed & best of all we are close to M1 / M50 for transport links. Just my thought anyway.

Dizzyblonde

I read that they want the new children's hospital to be central, so I don't think they'll build it in the north county.

LeoB

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Imagine the outrage if Reilly gives the OK to a hospital near his constituency.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/childrens-hospital-can-be-built-in-four-years-3041662.html[/QUOTE]

His neck is well thick enough to withstand any outrage.

The Hill Billy wrote: »

What you say is true. But there may be "Outrage" over what some will perceive as favoritism on the part of the Minister for Health by locating a hospital in his constituency.

Didnt show any favourtism when Rush Garda Station was being given the kiss of death by Minister Shatter.

There is plenty of room for a hospital In N.C.D.but I would have no faith in this goverment to deliver anything. This whole episode over the childrens hospital is scandelous. It must be one of the worst decisions ever made to turn down the green field site at Newlands cross, to keep a few consultants happy. It had everything for all the people especially ease of access with Luas, mainline rail, motorways and ample parking.

I agree with Robfoul on this in the context of providing a better service for everyone not just the wealthy who go the private clinics that have sprung up over the last 10years.

I am not sure we have many sites in N.C.D that would fit the criteria possibly only around the outside of the M50 near Ballymun or Finglas exit.

Zagato

LeoB wrote: »

I agree with Robfoul on this in the context of providing a better service for everyone not just the wealthy who go the private clinics that have sprung up over the last 10years.

I am not sure we have many sites in N.C.D that would fit the criteria possibly only around the outside of the M50 near Ballymun or Finglas exit.

Wouldn't go to any of those clinics to have my toe nail removed.

I agree around the N2 or Ballymun/M50 junction would be good sites for access. If I was to pick an existing adult hospital to Co locate it with, Blanchardstown probably has the best access, but they sold all their land a few years back (and this is a NCD forum)

It's important to remember the idea that this should be a National referral centre, and not your local paediatric hospital.

james2006

The fact that the government is now considering 11 possible sites - some which are Nama-owned) including the Elm Park site in Booterstown is a brilliant idea.

For anyone who doesn't know how large Elm Park is : It's a huge site with five or six huge state of the art office blocks. While there are a few tenants in each block, (Allianz, and a few residential tenants, the vast majority of the entire site is a ghost development.

Here's an idea of how large each of the five or six blocks are. They are surrounded by a vast portion of land which would give the government the option of even more development within the site (which wouldn't be needed however). There is already sufficient development on the site.

http://www.let.ie/commercial-property/Block-HQ3-Elm-Park-Offices-Dublin-4-Co-Dublin/79279

Development within the five office blocks had been abandoned at the very final stages of completion - they just all need to be properly fitted out, which of course provides a "blank slate" for the developers of the new hospital.

It was reported that the Government will be spending up to 200 million euro building the new hospital. It would save the Governemnt so much money if they chose this site.


It meets all of the criteria need to be eligible for the National Childrens Hospital.


1. Co -Location with a teaching hospital - it is situated within walking distance of St. Vincents Hospital

2. Transport Links - The site is situated along the N11. The Dart is easily accessible also.

3. Although there would be construction noise (for the interiors of the blocks), this site is situated away from most residential areas, the noise impact would be very low.

It's a no-brainer to choose this site. If the government decides on a greenfield site, or the Mater hospital (or even the Coombe hospital), they will have missed a great opportunity to save the taxpayer millions.

There is no need to build anything from scratch if this site is chosen. The development is ready to go in regards to the building phase, the interior of the blocks just need to be developed more. - its basically a skeleton interior currently.

Although the Government would have to buy the development from the developer- it would be at a reduced cost and nowhere near the 200 million euro foreseen cost.

Cardinal Richelieu

james2006 wrote: »

The fact that the government is now considering 11 possible sites - some which are Nama-owned) including the Elm Park site in Booterstown is a brilliant idea.

For anyone who doesn't know how large Elm Park is : It's a huge site with five or six huge state of the art office blocks. While there are a few tenants in each block, (Allianz, and a few residential tenants, the vast majority of the entire site is a ghost development.

Here's an idea of how large each of the five or six blocks are. They are surrounded by a vast portion of land which would give the government the option of even more development within the site (which wouldn't be needed however). There is already sufficient development on the site.

http://www.let.ie/commercial-property/Block-HQ3-Elm-Park-Offices-Dublin-4-Co-Dublin/79279

Development within the five office blocks had been abandoned at the very final stages of completion - they just all need to be properly fitted out, which of course provides a "blank slate" for the developers of the new hospital.

It was reported that the Government will be spending up to 200 million euro building the new hospital. It would save the Governemnt so much money if they chose this site.


It meets all of the criteria need to be eligible for the National Childrens Hospital.


1. Co -Location with a teaching hospital - it is situated within walking distance of St. Vincents Hospital

2. Transport Links - The site is situated along the N11. The Dart is easily accessible also.

3. Although there would be construction noise (for the interiors of the blocks), this site is situated away from most residential areas, the noise impact would be very low.

It's a no-brainer to choose this site. If the government decides on a greenfield site, or the Mater hospital (or even the Coombe hospital), they will have missed a great opportunity to save the taxpayer millions.

There is no need to build anything from scratch if this site is chosen. The development is ready to go in regards to the building phase, the interior of the blocks just need to be developed more. - its basically a skeleton interior currently.

Although the Government would have to buy the development from the developer- it would be at a reduced cost and nowhere near the 200 million euro foreseen cost.

Its not exactly related to NCD but you do know were Elm Park is located? Near the Merrion Gates one of Dublin busiest Junctions so your good transport links don't really work out when you create Dublin largest daily traffic jam.

Also have they not sold any apartments at all? I would be peeved if someone started to turn my apartment block into a hospital.

LeoB

james2006 wrote: »

The fact that the government is now considering 11 possible sites - some which are Nama-owned) including the Elm Park site in Booterstown is a brilliant idea.

For anyone who doesn't know how large Elm Park is : It's a huge site with five or six huge state of the art office blocks. While there are a few tenants in each block, (Allianz, and a few residential tenants, the vast majority of the entire site is a ghost development. .

This a crazy suggestion. Access would be a nightmare. Have you driven the M.50 at rush hour? As I stated earlier IMO this hospital should be built outside the M50 where access is easier for everyone.

james2006 wrote: »

Development within the five office blocks had been abandoned at the very final stages of completion - they just all need to be properly fitted out, which of course provides a "blank slate" for the developers of the new hospital..

I would say A blank slate for....... Consultants nd cronies of Minister Reilly

james2006 wrote: »

It was reported that the Government will be spending up to 200 million euro building the new hospital. It would save the Governemnt so much money if they chose this site.

It meets all of the criteria need to be eligible for the National Childrens Hospital.

1. Co -Location with a teaching hospital - it is situated within walking distance of St. Vincents Hospital

2. Transport Links - The site is situated along the N11. The Dart is easily accessible also.

It's a no-brainer to choose this site. If the government decides on a greenfield site, or the Mater hospital (or even the Coombe hospital), they will have missed a great opportunity to save the taxpayer millions.

There is no need to build anything from scratch if this site is chosen. The development is ready to go in regards to the building phase, the interior of the blocks just need to be developed more. - its basically a skeleton interior currently.

Although the Government would have to buy the development from the developer- it would be at a reduced cost and nowhere near the 200 million euro foreseen cost.

It would not be a National childrens hospital on this site more like a national joke.
They will not build it for €200 million. It will cost more by the time they fck this up
Its would be a disaster for the people if this site was choosen
The taxpayer will be saved money in the long term by keeping it outside the M.50. People will aready have paid toll on the way to Dublin without the West link and then car parking fees.
James Connolly hospital has ample room for parking is on the main rd to North west, easily accessible from N.2, N3, N4 M.50 Oh and the N11. It is also easily accessible fro where the major population growth has been in the last 10 - 15 years West and North Dublin Dublin, Kildare, Meath and Louth.

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Its not exactly related to NCD but you do know were Elm Park is located? Near the Merrion Gates one of Dublin busiest Junctions so your good transport links don't really work out when you create Dublin largest daily traffic jam.

Also have they not sold any apartments at all? I would be peeved if someone started to turn my apartment block into a hospital.

Grand spot to buy an apartment if you could walk to work:)

Its realted to us ok. Imagine trying to get from Balbriggan or Drogheada to ElmPark in Rush hour traffic

There is a good opportunity for politicans to do the right thing in the best interests of the people not their ego's or constituancies.

james2006

In reply to "Leo B". I think you'll find that my suggestion for the Elm Park location is based on common sense and logical thinking.

As I've said in my previous post above, this site is more or less a blank slate upon which the hospital developers can start on straight away - no need for huge exterior construction - it would cut down on the time frame of 2016, which seems to have been given as the government deadline for building the hospital.

Your argument that there would be "huge traffic jams" would apply to the building of any hospital - this country is known for having poorly thought out road systems - so regardless of where the hospital is built - you can't please all of the people all of the time - you will always find someone who is against building it in any location whatsoever. My point is - your traffic argument isn't really valid because in this case - that coast road at the merrion gates is grand for traffic.

james2006

And also - does the M50 traffic tolling system expect people who have hospital emergencies to pay the toll, to travel from north to south dublin? Seems a bit ridiculous to me. :eek:

james2006

Does anyone know all of the possible sites for the hospital
As far as I know, the only sites which have been reported on, are:

1. A greenfield site near Newlands Cross, (South Dublin) - if this location is selected the developer will pay for the entire hospital development himself - saving the tax payer millions.

2. A site at the Coombe Hospital

3. Elm Park - in Booterstown (South Dublin)

4. Thornton Hall (North Dublin)

5. James' Hospital

6. A site on the Mater Hospital |(North Dublin)

Also a number of Nama - owned properties throughoout Dublin, does anyone know the entire 11 sites? so we can all make a fully informed discussion about this.

LeoB

james2006 wrote: »

In reply to "Leo B". I think you'll find that my suggestion for the Elm Park location is based on common sense and logical thinking. .

Sorry I simply dont see the logic in building it there

james2006 wrote: »

As I've said in my previous post above, this site is more or less a blank slate upon which the hospital developers can start on straight away - no need for huge exterior construction - it would cut down on the time frame of 2016, which seems to have been given as the government deadline for building the hospital..

James Connolly has a lot of infrastructure in place. And I only say that location for accessibility reasons. If it were on Naas Rd (further from me) I would accept it and the building timeframe is irrevialnt there appears little will here to get things done

james2006 wrote: »

Your argument that there would be "huge traffic jams" would apply to the building of any hospital - this country is known for having poorly thought out road systems - so regardless of where the hospital is built - you can't please all of the people all of the time - you will always find someone who is against building it in any location whatsoever. My point is - your traffic argument isn't really valid because in this case - that coast road at the merrion gates is grand for traffic.

But placing this hospital in Elm Park will please only a handful of people and majority will be "dumped" on again

Not just traffic jams but in general access would be very difficult for the vast majority of people attending this facility.

My traffic argument is all the more valid when you consider the coast Rd is of little use to anyone coming from the West

james2006 wrote: »

And also - does the M50 traffic tolling system expect people who have hospital emergencies to pay the toll, to travel from north to south dublin? Seems a bit ridiculous to me. :eek:

Nobody will try to go through the city at rush hour and No I would expect that anyone who has a letter from the hospital would not pay toll no matter what direction they are travelling. People travelling up from say Galway, Mayo or Cork Or Kerry will have incurred a substantial fuel cost and to expect them to pay a toll would in my opinion be wrong. I live in North County Dublin and would not have a problem paying the toll to get to Naas Rd but I dont have the cost the country people would have. I would also suggest that car parking would be a max of €2 for anyone on business in the hospital

LeoB

james2006 wrote: »

Does anyone know all of the possible sites for the hospital
As far as I know, the only sites which have been reported on, are:

1. A greenfield site near Newlands Cross, (South Dublin) - if this location is selected the developer will pay for the entire hospital development himself - saving the tax payer millions.

2. A site at the Coombe Hospital

3. Elm Park - in Booterstown (South Dublin)

4. Thornton Hall (North Dublin)

5. James' Hospital

6. A site on the Mater Hospital |(North Dublin)

Also a number of Nama - owned properties throughoout Dublin, does anyone know the entire 11 sites? so we can all make a fully informed discussion about this.

Greenfield site at Newlands Cross Is this not the logical site? For everyone. I will gladly pay the toll to get here there is huge access available around here, Bus Eireann, Irish Rail, Luas and a massive road network.

Coombe hospital access
Elm Park.......
Thornton hall close to airport and N.2 but is that enough?
James Hospital. Another city site with difficult access a lot of the time.
Mater Hospital. Bertie is no longer Taoiseach and one of the most ridiculous proposal put forward on any development in this country

Only a view mind you

james2006

The locating of the NCD anywhere in Dublin will be inconvenient to peopel living outside of Dublin.

More important than anything else, the key issues should be accesibility.

To make it less inconvenient for those living inside, and especially outside, of Dublin.
To make sure there is currently sufficient infrastructure to facilitate easy access directly to the hospital.

Based on the currently reported locations, let's evaluate them based on their accessibility.

1. A greenfield site near Newlands Cross, (South Dublin) - if this location is selected the developer will pay for the entire hospital development himself - saving the tax payer millions.

(On the Naas Road
15 minutes from the Red Cow Luas stop
5 minutes from the M50
Would be very convenient for the vast majority of people.)

2. A site at the Coombe Hospital (10 minutes from Luas stop, very limited parking.)

3. Elm Park - in Booterstown (South Dublin)
(Coast road - main secondary road, very accessible, underground car park, 5 minutes from DART line.)

4. Thornton Hall (North Dublin) (Metro North - scrapped)
(poor accesibility, no train station. In the middle of nowhere)

5. James' Hospital
(It has been reported that this area is already highly congested.)

6. A site on the Mater Hospital |(North Dublin)
Dublin City Centre is already notoriously congested with traffic every single day. While there are transport links, it definitely seems like an unsuitable site. Even An Bord Plannala agree.

7. Tallaght Hospital
(10 minutes from Luas
Near the M50
Near the Naas Road
Easy accessibilty for people coming from the South of Ireland.)

On a sidenote, is Beaumont Hospital in consideration also?

Cardinal Richelieu

james2006 wrote: »

Your argument that there would be "huge traffic jams" would apply to the building of any hospital - this country is known for having poorly thought out road systems - so regardless of where the hospital is built - you can't please all of the people all of the time - you will always find someone who is against building it in any location whatsoever. My point is - your traffic argument isn't really valid because in this case - that coast road at the merrion gates is grand for traffic.

Do you drive? Is this midnight driving time your basing this on? Have you ever communted on that road? It only takes a concert in the O2 to turn it into one long traffic jam.

james2006 wrote: »

And also - does the M50 traffic tolling system expect people who have hospital emergencies to pay the toll, to travel from north to south dublin? Seems a bit ridiculous to me. :eek:

Soooo your expecting northsiders to drive through the traffic maze of town or force them to use the bottleneck that is the Eastlink Toll Bridge if you locate in Elm Park.

james2006 wrote: »

1. A greenfield site near Newlands Cross, (South Dublin) - if this location is selected the developer will pay for the entire hospital development himself - saving the tax payer millions.

And who would that developer be? The same guy that handed over his Art collection to NAMA late last year?

Finally this thread is going way off having a connection with DCN, perhaps you should post your thoughts on possible locations of the Hospital in this forum,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=887

Beasty

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Finally this thread is going way off having a connection with DCN, perhaps you should post your thoughts on possible locations of the Hospital in this forum,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=887

Agreed, can we keep this thread to the DCN aspects, but please also leave the modding to the mods. If you think the thread is heading off topic, report a post or PM the mods.

Thanks

Beasty

LeoB

I really dont think we have a great site in DCN unless it is built along Collinstown lane just off the M50 beside the Airport but no Luas, rail and no sign of metro north in next 10 years. Only other places for ease of access is N.2 near Finglas.

I cant see any point in building anywhere inside the M.50.

Unless James wants it in Lusk!! James Reilly that is:)

james2006

Firstly, what does "DCN" refer to. Anything I've talked about here is directly related to the thread title!! The location of the National Children's Hospital is the key issue here- Beasty - and whoever else has a complaint about whether a post is irrelevant - who do you think you are? I made very relevant points if you care to read my previous posts!! :mad:

Beasty

james2006 wrote: »

Firstly, what does "DCN" refer to. Anything I've talked about here is directly related to the thread title!! The location of the National Children's Hospital is the key issue here- Beasty - and whoever else has a complaint about whether a post is irrelevant - who do you think you are? I made very relevant points if you care to read my previous posts!! :mad:

If you have a problem with my (or anyone else's) posts, report them, or PM the Mods. Do not question mod decisions in-thread

This is the Dublin County North (or DCN) forum. Only post here if it's relevant to DCN. The wider question of other possible locations is more relevant to other forums, such as the one mentioned by Cardinal Richelieu