6 years jail for garlic scam

gizmo555

Pal wrote: »

Rubbish.
He was caught with one truck.
about €50k worth of garlic.

He owned up to the ongoing scam which customs had no knowledge of.

110% wrong . . .

gizmo555 wrote: »

Read the report on the court case.

Revenue Officer Denis Twohig said the scam was uncovered on October 9, 2007 when customs officers at Dublin Port investigated a container that was supposed to contain 18 tonnes of apples and two tonnes of garlic. When they looked inside they found 21 tonnes of garlic and no apples.

Following the find, Revenue officers began an investigation into previous imports by the company.

During a search of the headquarters, officers seized a series of emails between Begley and his garlic supplier in China which were exchanged over the course of four years.

The emails told the supplier to falsify the import documents to describe the shipments as apples rather than garlic.

He admitted it because he couldn't deny it - Revenue and Customs had caught him red handed . . .

Caliden

Rapists don't even get 6 years so why is this guy getting the book thrown at him?

Muilleann

Sentence was crazy in first place but is'nt first time Judge Nolan got things wrong.

dirtyden

Milk & Honey wrote: »

It would certainly not be enough to convict him. The labels on the boxes are hearsay. He could have forced them to produce a book of evidence showing that he knew all about the scam, that he intended it and that it was not a mistake by the Chinese. He could have contested all of the evidence at a trial. lastly, because it was a jury trial there was a risk that three or more jurors would have refused to convict anyway, given the nature of the offence.
The reality is that he had a sporting chance of getting off if he brazened it out. Many criminal defendants do.This is invariably recognised in a discount of sentence when there is a guilty plea and co-operation.

You need to get your facts correct. He was caught red handed so he owned up. He is not a hero he is a crook/thief/fraudster. His sentence was slightly harsh but people here suggesting that his cooperation was some kind of altruistic act really need to have a think. There was more than enough evidence to convict him as was pointed out previously on this thread and his fraud was massive.

Buddy97mm

This "gentleman" was caught red-handed attempting to defraud the State and, by consequence, every taxpayer and welfare recipient in the country. Admittedly, he co-operated with the prosecution and repaid the money involved.

However, he obtained a competitive advanatge by mis-declaring his garlic imports and the 1.6m involved would pay for a lot of nurses, SNAs, etc.

The notion that by co-operating and repaying the money involved renders it somehow ok, implies that that all criminal fraudsters, if caught, should only effectively get a slap on the wrist - by repaying the money (only after being caught), this criminal ulimately got an interest free loan from the State, which he would not have repaid had he not been caught.

Death and Taxes

Buddy97mm wrote: »

This "gentleman" was caught red-handed attempting to defraud the State and, by consequence, every taxpayer and welfare recipient in the country. Admittedly, he co-operated with the prosecution and repaid the money involved.

However, he obtained a competitive advanatge by mis-declaring his garlic imports and the 1.6m involved would pay for a lot of nurses, SNAs, etc.

The notion that by co-operating and repaying the money involved renders it somehow ok, implies that that all criminal fraudsters, if caught, should only effectively get a slap on the wrist - by repaying the money (only after being caught), this criminal ulimately got an interest free loan from the State, which he would not have repaid had he not been caught.

A few points.
Firstly I dont think anyone is saying what he did is ok, what people have an issue with was the absurd sentence he was hit with given all the circumstances.
Secondly, he did not get an interest free loan from the state as he was also hit with both interest and penalties on top of the amount of duty he evaded.
It does nobody any good either to misrepresent the reasons people are unhappy about the sentence or to misrepresent what the guy actually did.

Wibbs

Muilleann wrote: »

Sentence was crazy in first place but is'nt first time Judge Nolan got things wrong.

Quoted for truth. Nolan is a guy who has been in the spotlight for unreal "judgements" in the past. Fines instead of gaol time for sexual assault for example. A bloke (with four previous convictions for assault BTW) committed a violent sexual assualt avoided gaol on condition he pay 15,000 as compensation to the woman. This "judge" suspended the sentence of a man convicted of violently attacking three women again with the proviso he paid 12,000 as compensation. Another scumbag who sexually assaulted two of his nieces avoided a gaol after the judge reckoned publication of his name will be punishment enough.

Now no doubt some will witter on about "the law" and these bewigged balloonheads know their stuff and that they're restricted from harsher sentencing blah bloody blah, but I'm quite sure in the case of assault they have the option of handing down Gaol time, but instead this hammerhead hands out fines? I mean, what the jumping fúck? Garlic man is just another example of the long list of utter daftness coming from what passes for the Irish judiciary.

Milk & Honey

dirtyden wrote: »

You need to get your facts correct. He was caught red handed so he owned up. He is not a hero he is a crook/thief/fraudster. His sentence was slightly harsh but people here suggesting that his cooperation was some kind of altruistic act really need to have a think. There was more than enough evidence to convict him as was pointed out previously on this thread and his fraud was massive.

My facts are straight. Just because there was evidence to convict him does not mean he would have been convicted. He owned up and that should have been taken into account in mitigation. He pleaded guilty so he is obviously a crook but his motive in pleading guilty is less relevant than the fact that he did it. If people own up and still get the maximum sentence why wouldn't they simply say nothing and make the prosecution work as hard as possible and possibly get away completely with the offence.

All evidence can be challenged and it is well possible that some might have been excluded. There is no certainty in a court case.

The Road Runner

Just heard on the radio that the review for his sentencing will be held today. hopefully a bit of common sense will be shown

Dude111

Yes lets hope so.... This whole thing is stupid!!

Garlic?????

The Road Runner

it got defered

The Court of Criminal Appeal has deferred a decision on a new sentence for businessman Paul Begley, who was jailed for six years for failing to pay import duty on garlic.
The appeal court set aside the sentence last month, saying it was excessive.
Begley remained in custody pending further submissions today, and returned to prison after this morning's brief hearing.
Te court said it needed further time to consider an alternative sentence.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0204/366138-paul-begley-court/

AudreyHepburn

I've said it before but I'll say it again....this man broke the law. He is a thief and fraudster. I struggle to see what is so wrong about punishing him?

Six years may be a little excessive, although saying that there are huge amounts of money involved.

Do people feel this man is a hero for sticking his finger to the law? Do you really think he should go unpunished?

goat2

he imployed people, he did pay most of the vat on them anyway and paid his taxes,
he should never ever have been imprisoned, but asked to pay back this vat gradually over a couple yrs, he is important to alot of people he is an employer and they depend on him and his company for wages,
it is only garlic.

srsly78

goat2 wrote: »

it is only garlic.

You can't just let people flout customs laws because "it's only garlic". Otherwise next time it will be "only japanese automobiles" or similar. Yes the sentence was harsh, which has since been successfully appealed - but remember the whole point of the exercise is deterrence.

This caused a lot of headlines, people now realise importing stuff is serious business!

Lapin

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Do people feel this man is a hero for sticking his finger to the law?

Do you really think he should go unpunished?

No to the first question.

To the second question, I think he has been punished enough at this stage.
Today was particularly cruel.

fly_agaric

If people get away with frauds like this they distort the playing field for other businesses.

They cost jobs in companies run by honest people (in Ireland, we like to brand these sorts "mugs" and "soft touches" and opposed to our idols the "cute hoors" and "sly dogs" ).

They cost the state in evaded tax that of course has to be gotten from the hide of others who can't slither away so easily (the usual suspects - "PAYE" Patsy, people dependant on social welfare etc).

It is bad that Ireland's justice system has been so toothless in other cases of white collar "crime" (if you can call it that when it has not been punished) and inconsistent in sentencing but he did deserve to go to jail IMO.

dvpower

Dude111 wrote: »

Yes lets hope so.... This whole thing is stupid!!

Garlic?????

goat2 wrote: »

it is only garlic.

I love the way people think that the commodity he was dodging the duty on is important.

I can only imagine the outrage if he was jailed for dodging duty on the importation of cuddly toys.

Milk & Honey

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I've said it before but I'll say it again....this man broke the law. He is a thief and fraudster. I struggle to see what is so wrong about punishing him?

Six years may be a little excessive, although saying that there are huge amounts of money involved.

Do people feel this man is a hero for sticking his finger to the law? Do you really think he should go unpunished?

No one says he should go unpunished. The complaint is that the principles applicable in sentencing him were not applied.

goat2

just apples instead of garlic, a few cent at most between the two,
i will say it again, that man did pay taxes in this country, and anyway he did pay most of the vat on the things.
i really think it would have cost the country less if he had been given time to repay what he had not paid, and keep his business afloat,
he was caught doing it,
and he would not do it again due to being caught already,
and anyway there would have been bigger scrutiny on him after that,

there are people who have done worse, and they were not inside for twelve months,

goat2

srsly78 wrote: »

You can't just let people flout customs laws because "it's only garlic". Otherwise next time it will be "only japanese automobiles" or similar. Yes the sentence was harsh, which has since been successfully appealed - but remember the whole point of the exercise is deterrence.

This caused a lot of headlines, people now realise importing stuff is serious business!

i agree he broke the law,
but what i realise that when calling them apples, he did pay a certain amount of the vat, it is the remainder that evaded,
he has paid his taxes here,

goat2

did those who brought this horse meat through customs,
call it horsemeat or beef,

AudreyHepburn

goat2 wrote: »

he imployed people, he did pay most of the vat on them anyway and paid his taxes,
he should never ever have been imprisoned, but asked to pay back this vat gradually over a couple yrs, he is important to alot of people he is an employer and they depend on him and his company for wages,
it is only garlic.[/QUOTE]

So did Sean Quinn.

That has no baring on anything.

And if we bend the rules for him we will have to bend them for every thief and fraudster.

You break the law, you pay for it, end of.

FruitLover

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I struggle to see what is so wrong about punishing him?
...
Do you really think he should go unpunished?

You have missed the point spectacularly.

Prisons are for dangerous people who need to be locked away from the general populace. Rapists, murderers, people who commit vicious assault, etc. The prisons in our country are so overfilled as it is that judges have to give rapists suspended sentences and let hardcore scumbags out after 6 months just to have room to put the new scumbags in.

Nobody's saying it's right to let hustlers and scammers to get away scot-free — there should be some sort of punishment (and, if possible, remuneration for the state). But trying to pin a 6-year prison sentence on a tax-dodger when genuine scum with multiple previous violent convictions walk free weekly is fallacious. Every prison bed taken up by an illegal garlic merchant is a bed that should be occupied by a now liberated rapist or other violent thug. Which one would you rather bump into on the streets of your town/city at night??

Boombastic

How many years did Mick Wallace get for his tax evasion?

Dicky Pride

This country is shit. Pure and Simple.

There are no forward thinkers, only backward bottlers.

As is said above, jails are for dangerous criminals. In the case of this garlic smuggling man, he should be sentenced to 6 years of useful community service. Let him continue to make a living, but, for 6 years he is also to live a double life as an altruistic man of charity. If he is not willing to do it, then he should be forced.

I'm sick of seeing people who are not afraid of the guards, get off scot free with an attitude of "Sure what can we do" (seemingly nothing until they actually murder someone). But they come down heavy on the easy targets, the people that are law fearing, non trouble making. Thieves, aggressors and rapists get off with suspended sentences but people who struggle to pay bills get threatened with jail.

We see politicians claiming all kinds of expenses and benefits but seemingly do very little to help in the running of the country. Make no mistake about it. This country is shit, and it will continue to be shit until a something changes.

Bruthal

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You break the law, you pay for it, end of.

If he had got a 20 year sentence, would you still say that exact same thing, or is there a level thats too harsh?

How about when you break a speed limit law? Straight to the garda station and hand yourself in for punishment is it?

Or do the flawless law abiders of boards in reality not mind some laws in their daily life, but come on here to justify the sentences of others, while proclaiming that the law was broken, you pay for it...

goat2

i wonder how they got horsemeat through our borders,
without being caught,

mikom

goat2 wrote: »

i wonder how they got horsemeat through our borders,
without being caught,

Horsemosis?

uck51js9zml2yt

Boombastic wrote: »

How many years did Mick Wallace get for his tax evasion?

4 unles he gets out for doing a good job

The Road Runner

I have a feeling he wont go and do this again and i think the guy was punished enough at this stage, and i only say this in comparison to other jail terms people get. if we saw that right across the board people were getting sentances of this length for similar i would think well then he should see out his time. i dont even feel he was being made as an example to hold up and then forever more similar crimes will get the same time in jail. on its own it can be argued that 6 years may be fitting. but when you compare it, even to violent crimes, it is way over the top.

JohnOShock

.....reversed horsemosis! They'll find rat DNA in Polish burgers

Worztron

Why are many other tax evaders only named and shamed in newspapers and fined?

samsemtex

Austo77 wrote: »

Serves him right imo

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

So he knowingly broke the law and defrauded the state and people think its a harsh treatment , in my opinion its the same as someone defrauding welfare or revenue by outright lying to them.

The priggishness of people on this website is truly astounding. Looking at the people who thanked these posts too it seems that they are the exact same people who staunchly support the bank bailout and selling out of our country by the government. What a group of lads.