The Israeli central south is again under attack

Brown Bomber

BlaasForRafa,

You stated:

Al-Qaisi planned the highway attacks last year that killed 8 israelis, did he or anyone else think that it would go unforgotten or unpunished? He planned atacks on Israel and he paid the price for it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=77554846

You have since ignored every question I have asked of you based on your statement.

1. You can prove this then?
2. Is this you advocating extra-judicial execution?
3. Have you no respect for the principles of justice and due process?
4. Are you aware that the bombed his home? That five other members of his household were injured in the attack?
5. Could you please answer the question, do you advocate the use of extra-judicial executions?
6. I take it you have proof of this? This is the second time of asking. You are aware of the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty"?
7. So you are also in favour of punishing an entire household, through home destruction, injury and death for the alleged crimes of a single member of the household?

Any answers would be appreciated. Especially anything dealing with evidence/proof regarding your premise which in your view justifies indiscriminate killing.

Jaafa

The Israeli wrote: »

153 or more rockets have been exploded in Israel since Friday. (I couldn't understand if this is the total number of rockets launched or the ones that hit the ground).
Iron Dome has intercepted 51 rockets - rockets that without it would have hit populated areas as it intercepts only rockets that are about to hit populated areas.
A few of them have slipped through and luckily have just caused injuries and property damage.

There is an estimation that the Islamic Jihad isn't accountable to Hamas and gets encouraged by Iran to continue fire until it achieves notable achievements, which means - death toll.
There are now talks about launching a ground attack if the intensive and unprecedented fire continues.

And while these various groups continue with their largely pointless retaliatory attacks, Israel has managed to increase the death toll to 26, including a 15 year old boy. 3 Israeli's have been injured.

In the mean time Hamas is trying to establish a truce between these factions and Israel.

He quoted Islamic Jihad sources who said that the Egyptians, at the behest of Hamas - the Palestinian faction that governs the Gaza Strip - were trying to establish an informal truce between Israel and Palestinian groups.

It's clear to me who's trying to escalate the situation. I admire the people of south Korea who under far more serious aggression (corvette sunk, with 46 crew killed) showed the up-most restraint in not responding, and thus gained the support of everyone but the aggressors. If only Israel could take such a stance in the face of these largely ineffective and harmless rockets (which they provoked rightly or wrongly).

RichieC

Jaafa wrote: »

It's clear to me who's trying to escalate the situation. I admire the people of south Korea who under far more serious aggression (corvette sunk, with 46 crew killed) showed the up-most restraint in not responding, and thus gained the support of everyone but the aggressors. If only Israel could take such a stance in the face of these largely ineffective and harmless rockets (which they provoked rightly or wrongly).

Israel profits from being able to say everyone hates them.

The Israeli

Jaafa wrote: »

And while these various groups continue with their largely pointless retaliatory attacks, Israel has managed to increase the death toll to 26, including a 15 year old boy. 3 Israeli's have been injured.

In the mean time Hamas is trying to establish a truce between these factions and Israel.

You have included the dead terrorists in the death toll - how nice.
Accordingly to your source and if I'm not mistaken, there are 3 dead civilians out of the 25 dead.
Every innocent life that is lost is a tragedy.

Hamas tries to establish truce aided by Egypt because it loses public support with every passing day it stays not involved.

It's clear to me who's trying to escalate the situation. I admire the people of south Korea who under far more serious aggression (corvette sunk, with 46 crew killed) showed the up-most restraint in not responding, and thus gained the support of everyone but the aggressors. If only Israel could take such a stance in the face of these largely ineffective and harmless rockets (which they provoked rightly or wrongly).

North Korea doesn't have an aim of striking South Korea from the face of the earth. They don't declare it night and day. Also, North Korea targeted a military vessel and not civilians, and also - south Korea is probably very cautious with North Korea.. A conflict with North Korea could lead to very bad results for it.

Learning from the past experience no reaction to terrorists leads to increased actions from them, and the opposite.

RichieC

The Israeli wrote: »

North Korea doesn't have an aim of striking South Korea from the face of the earth. They don't declare it night and day. Also, North Korea targeted a military vessel and not civilians, and also - south Korea is probably very cautious with North Korea.. A conflict with North Korea could lead to very bad results for it.

Learning from the past experience no reaction to terrorists leads to increased actions from them, and the opposite.

The DMZ is the most heavily militarised place on earth.

wes

The Israeli wrote: »

Learning from the past experience no reaction to terrorists leads to increased actions from them, and the opposite.

Israel kicked off the latest round of violence after violating the informal truce, and the reason presented contained a fairly blatant lie as well. The current violence is something that Israel chose to start, and not any Palestinian groups.

Mr.Micro

wes wrote: »

Israel kicked off the latest round of violence after violating the informal truce, and the reason presented contained a fairly blatant lie as well. The current violence is something that Israel chose to start, and not any Palestinian groups.

Possibly to cause a distraction from something else.

Its been a good weekend for mass murder, the poor children,women and men in Afghanistan, the poor people in Syria, the people in Gaza, and the people in Israel.

Jaafa

Hamas tries to establish truce aided by Egypt because it loses public support with every passing day it stays not involved.

So even when trying to establish peace, Hamas has nefarious motives? Couldn't be they want to stop the senseless killing?

This is the reality of the situation.

1.Israel starts the conflict, it attacks and kills a man they claim is a terrorist, along with 15 other people they claim are terrorists.
2.Some factions in Gaza respond by firing missiles that kill no one and cause minimal damage, as they always do.
3.Israel attacks again killing 10 more people who they claim are terrorists.
4. Some factions launch more rockets that do nothing.
5.???? Want to have a guess what this will be?

Does that look like appropriate use of force to you? Does that look like any sort of restraint? Note the use of they here, means without proof.

North Korea doesn't have an aim of striking South Korea from the face of the earth.

Educate yourself.

Carlos Orange

The Israeli wrote: »

PRC is a recognized terror organization.

Who recognises it? I don't see it listed on the US FTO for instance.

Carlos Orange

The Israeli wrote: »

Also, North Korea targeted a military vessel and not civilians, and also - south Korea is probably very cautious with North Korea.. A conflict with North Korea could lead to very bad results for it.

Are you saying Israel doesn't need to be cautious because in practice there is little risk of a bad outcome?

The Israeli

psinno wrote: »

Are you saying Israel doesn't need to be cautious because in practice there is little risk of a bad outcome?

It should be always a consideration of course - cost vs. results.

p.s. with people's life everyone should be cautious, and not only Israel.

The Israeli

Jaafa wrote: »

So even when trying to establish peace, Hamas has nefarious motives? Couldn't be they want to stop the senseless killing?

This is the reality of the situation.

1.Israel starts the conflict, it attacks and kills a man they claim is a terrorist, along with 15 other people they claim are terrorists.
2.Some factions in Gaza respond by firing missiles that kill no one and cause minimal damage, as they always do.
3.Israel attacks again killing 10 more people who they claim are terrorists.
4. Some factions launch more rockets that do nothing.
5.???? Want to have a guess what this will be?

Does that look like appropriate use of force to you? Does that look like any sort of restraint? Note the use of they here, means without proof.

Educate yourself.

Funny, hamas wants to stop senseless killing? The same Hamas that does senseless killing from time to time? whatever you think..

1) Yes, we are all making that up...
2) Why? Because there are no studies in those areas, because people sit in bomb shelters, people don't crowd, because millions are being spent on air defense systems.
3) That's right. why is the figure 10 ? but ok.. whatever
4) you are repeating yourself
5) no


An Arabic source based in London might answer on some of your points.
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=28824

Jaafa

The Israeli wrote: »

1) Yes, we are all making that up...

Seem like it to me. Unless you want to provide some proof?

Funny, hamas wants to stop senseless killing? The same Hamas that does senseless killing from time to time? whatever you think..

Yeah weird that isn't it? Why would Hamas want to stop the airstrikes that are killing the Palestinians that elected them, and which they cannot respond to in any meaningful way.

Nah much more likely they enjoy watching their own people die, you know for the support or whatever. They're senseless barbarians of course, no capabilities for logical thinking at all.

Duiske

Jaafa wrote: »

And while these various groups continue with their largely pointless retaliatory attacks, Israel has managed to increase the death toll to 26, including a 15 year old boy. 3 Israeli's have been injured.

This piece in the Irish Times tonight puts the number of Palestinians killed since Friday at 80, and of these, most were civilians. 8 Israeli's listed as wounded.

At least 80 Palestinians, mostly civilians, and eight Israelis have been wounded since the violence began on Friday.

"I am gravely concerned at the latest escalation between Gaza and Israel and once again civilians are paying a terrible price," Mr Ban told a special meeting of the UN Security Council on the "Arab Spring" uprisings.

Foghladh

Duiske wrote: »

This piece in the Irish Times tonight puts the number of Palestinians killed since Friday at 80, and of these, most were civilians. 8 Israeli's listed as wounded.

That article lists 80 Palestinians and 8 Israelis as wounded. It doesn't mention a death toll

Jaafa

Duiske wrote: »

This piece in the Irish Times tonight puts the number of Palestinians killed since Friday at 80, and of these, most were civilians. 8 Israeli's listed as wounded.

The figure is accurate, but that's the number wounded and killed, not just killed. You've misread.

Jaafa

A truce has been accepted. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/03/13/uk-palestinians-israel-idUKBRE82907T20120313

(Reuters) - Israel and militant factions in the Gaza Strip have agreed to an Egyptian-brokered truce to end four days of cross-border violence in which 25 Palestinians have been killed, a senior Egyptian security official told Reuters on Tuesday.

Brown Bomber

Duiske wrote: »

This piece in the Irish Times tonight puts the number of Palestinians killed since Friday at 80, and of these, most were civilians. 8 Israeli's listed as wounded.

The Israelis have been using the horrific attack in Eilat by Egyptian Bedouin to kill Gazans since August. They killed 25 in the immediate aftermath including a three-year-old "terrorist".

This is the account of two of the IDF's victims, two "terrorist" children, both cousins, 12 and 14 who were out playing when they where struck by a missile from an Israeli drone. One lost both his hands and all the flesh from his knee up to his waist. Sadly the younger of the two never woke from his coma.

Warning Distressing content

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxMdU9OAEAI

A truce has been accepted. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...82907T20120313
(Reuters) - Israel and militant factions in the Gaza Strip have agreed to an Egyptian-brokered truce to end four days of cross-border violence in which 25 Palestinians have been killed, a senior Egyptian security official told Reuters on Tuesday.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm delighted! For the Israeli, his countrymen and their inconveniencs and all the Gazan's who won't needlessly die.

Border-Rat

80 Palestinians killed in 1 week? When will Netenyahoo get the Assad treatment? Or do leaders with friends like Ruport Murdoch and the Tory Government of the UK need not worry about such things?

Some day Israel will really get whats coming to it. As I get older I really do buy into that theory more and more - what goes around comes around.

The Israeli

Border-Rat wrote: »

80 Palestinians killed in 1 week? When will Netenyahoo get the Assad treatment? Or do leaders with friends like Ruport Murdoch and the Tory Government of the UK need not worry about such things?

Some day Israel will really get whats coming to it. As I get older I really do buy into that theory more and more - what goes around comes around.

That is bordering with stupidity or blinding hatred. Go on. Don't let facts confuse you.

Brown Bomber

The Israeli wrote: »

That is bordering with stupidity or blinding hatred. Go on. Don't let facts confuse you.

May I ask what emotions you feel when you see that handless 14-year-old child scream in agony from his hospital bed because of an Israeli missile?

The Israeli

Brown Bomber wrote: »

May I ask what emotions you feel when you see that handless 14-year-old child scream in agony from his hospital bed because of an Israeli missile?

The same that I would feel for a handles 14-year-old child scream in agony from his hospital bed because of a Palestinian missile.

The Israeli

geeman wrote: »

White people are indifferent to the demise of brown people because they've been brainwashed by the mainstream media.

Example: Israel tells Europe and America that they need to embrace multiculturism. However, Israel has strived to eliminate it, quoting the current prime minister, Netanyahu:

The reason for that is to keep a Jewish majority in Israel, as it's clear that if it will change that will be the end of Israel. Every pragmatic person knows that.
That's why the two states solution is the only one that's possible.

Brown Bomber

The Israeli wrote: »

The same that I would feel for a handles 14-year-old child scream in agony from his hospital bed because of a Palestinian missile.

Which is what emotion exactly? Is it outrage? I feel outraged. FOr what it's worth I do appreciate it is different for you on the inside looking out and that recent traumatic history of of the Jewish people entitles them to a degree of paranaioa over security.

And can it really be the same? from your perspective that is. Surely you feel shame to know a drone has fired a missile into two children playing, maiming one and killing the other in your name?

Brown Bomber

geeman wrote: »

Take for example this Israeli/American in Sweden

To be fair there is anti-semitism in Sweden. Jews were essentially run out of Malmo. I live in Sweden and there are pockets of far-right BNP types and also a large immigrant population from Muslim majority lands which aren't de-facto anti-Israel of course but isn't ideal if your part of a tiny Jewish minority I'd suspect.

JustinDee

Jaafa wrote: »

Yeah weird that isn't it? Why would Hamas want to stop the airstrikes that are killing the Palestinians that elected them, and which they cannot respond to in any meaningful way

Whatever about the "they started it . . . no, they started it" sanctimonious bilge in this thread, please give over with the 'Hamas run Gaza democratically' line.
The Hamas regime is most certainly not democratic. Not even in the slightest measure. Tell us when the still-overdue elections will be run. Where are the opposition that would contest them? Are opposition allowed to stand? Where are those who disappeared during the purges reported by Jeremy Bowen and Jon Snow in 2008 and 2009?

Carlos Orange

The Israeli wrote: »

The reason for that is to keep a Jewish majority in Israel, as it's clear that if it will change that will be the end of Israel. Every pragmatic person knows that.
That's why the two states solution is the only one that's possible.

2 state solution is never going to happen. Best case scenario is something like Indian reservations in the US except without Israeli citizenship. Otherwise something worse.

Brown Bomber

JustinDee wrote: »

Whatever about the "they started it . . . no, they started it" sanctimonious bilge in this thread, please give over with the 'Hamas run Gaza democratically' line.

Strawman. He never said "Hamas run Gaza democratically". He said that Hamas were democratically elected and therefore have a vested interest in protecting the citizens of Gaza. This was in response to doubts raised over Hamas' sincerity regarding their overtures towards a ceasefire. Hamas' genuine openess towards a ceasefire was played out in the proceeding hours with them actually declaring a ceasefire with Israel.

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Strawman. He never said "Hamas run Gaza democratically". He said that Hamas were democratically elected and therefore have a vested interest in protecting the citizens of Gaza. This was in response to doubts raised over Hamas' sincerity regarding their overtures towards a ceasefire. Hamas' genuine openess towards a ceasefire was played out in the proceeding hours with them actually declaring a ceasefire with Israel.

It isn't a "strawman"...
It is nothing more than calling up someone on a tilted view, such as the above with your comment mentioning "genuine openness" about Hamas. There is nothing "genuinely open" about Hamas.
Nothing they do actually justifies how their regime runs Gaza with an iron fist either.

Far too tilted.

The Israeli

psinno wrote: »

2 state solution is never going to happen. Best case scenario is something like Indian reservations in the US except without Israeli citizenship. Otherwise something worse.

It's weird that you are saying that because there is a wide consensus about it in Israel. The question is not if, but what lands will be included and some other conditions.

Your idea of Indian reservations is absurd since already the Palestinians have autonomic territories that are completely separated from Israel.
You are here to fight. I see...

The Israeli

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Which is what emotion exactly? Is it outrage? I feel outraged. FOr what it's worth I do appreciate it is different for you on the inside looking out and that recent traumatic history of of the Jewish people entitles them to a degree of paranaioa over security.

And can it really be the same? from your perspective that is. Surely you feel shame to know a drone has fired a missile into two children playing, maiming one and killing the other in your name?

If a drone has fired a missile into two children playing, because it has missed or because these children came to a launching site minutes after a rocket had been fired from there and by that imitated the behavior of terrorist who return to fire rockets as it happens often, I feel sorrow for them. yes.

It wasn't aimed at them. People are people. They didn't deserve it.
I blame the terror organizations for firing rockets from civilian areas knowingly for their own selfish protection.
They don't care about lives. Are you outraged at of them too?
I hate the situation they put Israel in forcing it to choose between the safety of its children and the safety of the children in Gaza, and the way they EARN political strength and recognition from good people like you (maybe) by these low and vile actions.

I also hate that Israeli people get hit by rockets which has only one mission - killing and wounding them.

Corner a wounded animal, expect to be bitten.

Carlos Orange

The Israeli wrote: »

It's weird that you are saying that because there is a wide consensus about it in Israel. The question is not if, but what lands will be included and some other conditions.

Your idea of Indian reservations is absurd since already the Palestinians have autonomic territories that are completely separated from Israel.
You are here to fight. I see...

It wouldn't be an exact parallel because they never are. Indians have full citizenship now but they didn't 100 years ago. Palestine would be more like an Indian reservation 150 years ago.

For now Israel will probably keep with the status quo and see how far it can push it.

Then again what do I know. It is just something I read about or listen to people discuss on the Internet.

RichieC

psinno wrote: »

It wouldn't be an exact parallel because they never are. Indians have full citizenship now but they didn't 100 years ago. Palestine would be more like an Indian reservation 150 years ago.

For now Israel will probably keep with the status quo and see how far it can push it.

Then again what do I know. It is just something I read about or listen to people discuss on the Internet.

A war with Iran will allow Israel to push its borders further under the fog of war and use security concerns as an excuse.

Eggy Baby!

If the American government had a conscience, they'd cut all military aid to Israel. Its support for Israel is a demeaning action..Israel is one of the most militarised countries on Earth; but of course they say; "We are surrounded by enemies who want to destroy us blah blah" and the Americans are pulled hook line and sinker for it.

And the Americans criticised the Russians for their "heavy-handed, bullying" response to Georgia whereas when Israel commits these war crimes it doesn't bat an eyelid..

Really we need to end this disaster now.

BlaasForRafa

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Strawman. He never said "Hamas run Gaza democratically". He said that Hamas were democratically elected and therefore have a vested interest in protecting the citizens of Gaza. This was in response to doubts raised over Hamas' sincerity regarding their overtures towards a ceasefire. Hamas' genuine openess towards a ceasefire was played out in the proceeding hours with them actually declaring a ceasefire with Israel.

Hamas huff and puff for the media but I'd say they're not too bothered about the current Israeli strikes. It is Islamic Jihad and PRC terrorists that are being targeted, not Hamas so while they have to shakes their fists and make some "damn israeli" comments its not their people that are being targeted.

BlaasForRafa

RichieC wrote: »

A war with Iran will allow Israel to push its borders further under the fog of war and use security concerns as an excuse.

And where exactly would they push their borders? Israel already had the whole Sinai and gave it back, where do you think Israel wants to push its borders, Atlantis?

RichieC

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And where exactly would they push their borders? Israel already had the whole Sinai and gave it back, where do you think Israel wants to push its borders, Atlantis?

to completely encompass the zionist settlements in the west bank.

The Israeli

To all the ones who advice not to react to rockets fired on Israel. The life from within and the pure luck they depend on in occasions.

Qassam rockets launched to a cheerful music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCZFEBWTN_o

Rockets hit Israel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRz3nHwgjHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds0I0L1aGIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vnSm2pRcbg

Even with the Iron Dome - is it normal to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNNUmiJ5QvI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y39fsXAUKQ

BlaasForRafa

RichieC wrote: »

to completely encompass the zionist settlements in the west bank.

That dosen't make any sense, the settlements don't compose a contiguous area, in order to incorporate them all into the territory of Israel the whole west bank would need to be annexed. If you're claiming that Israel wants to do that then don't be surprised when no-one takes you seriously.

RichieC

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

That dosen't make any sense, the settlements don't compose a contiguous area, in order to incorporate them all into the territory of Israel the whole west bank would need to be annexed. If you're claiming that Israel wants to do that then don't be surprised when no-one takes you seriously.

The expansion of Israeli territory has long been the Zionist agenda. If you refuse to see reality than I say to you, do not be surprised when no one takes you seriously.

wes

The Israeli wrote: »

To all the ones who advice not to react to rockets fired on Israel. The life from within and the pure luck they depend on in occasions.

What are you talking about. You changing your story now:

The Israeli wrote: »

The missiles attacks had started after IDF killed the secretary general of PRC. PRC is a recognized terror organization.

Sorry, but you kind of wrecking your own credibility, when you are being inconsistent with what you said earlier on.

Israel was not reacting to rocket attacks, they kicked off the latest round of violence, and as I pointed out the reasons offered were based on a lie. All that death and destruction on both sides for no reason at all. You are happy to ignore the fact that Israel chose to kick off this violence for no good reason.

Jaafa

The Israeli wrote: »

Rocket attack videos

Really? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to show how terrifying these rocket attacks are, how damaging they are?

Would you like me to put up videos of entire neighborhoods reduced to rubble, multistory apartment complexes crumbling under airstrikes, white phosphorus landing on top of hospitals, the streets lined with bodies? Shall we see how they compare? Are they comparable?

The Israeli

Jaafa wrote: »

Really? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to show how terrifying these rocket attacks are, how damaging they are?

Would you like me to put up videos of entire neighborhoods reduced to rubble, multistory apartment complexes crumbling under airstrikes, white phosphorus landing on top of hospitals, the streets lined with bodies? Shall we see how they compare? Are they comparable?

I'm saying that if they launch these terror attacks on our population, we react. They can't go unpunished. Of course, IDF does everything it can to reduce the Palestinian innocents casualties as I described before (These are tragedies and I have no joy in that), but don't think that any government in the world can tolerate this.

No rockets on Israeli cities + no terror attacks inside of Israel = no anti terror air strikes on Gaza = No casualties on their side.

That's the equation.

The Israeli

wes wrote: »

What are you talking about. You changing your story now:


Sorry, but you kind of wrecking your own credibility, when you are being inconsistent with what you said earlier on.

Israel was not reacting to rocket attacks, they kicked off the latest round of violence, and as I pointed out the reasons offered were based on a lie. All that death and destruction on both sides for no reason at all. You are happy to ignore the fact that Israel chose to kick off this violence for no good reason.

Good. Israel killed a militant who is responsible for Israeli deaths, they reacted by launching rockets on population, we strike them back.
Better? I didn't think you need that chewed up and digested for you to understand..

Jaafa

The Israeli wrote: »

I'm saying that if they launch these terror attacks on our population, we react. They can't go unpunished. Of course, IDF does everything it can to reduce the Palestinian innocents casualties as I described before (These are tragedies and I have no joy in that), but don't think that any government in the world can tolerate this.

No rockets on Israeli cities + no terror attacks inside of Israel = no anti terror air strikes on Gaza = No casualties on their side.

That's the equation.

If that's the equation then why did Israel start this round of killing, by bombing Gaza? You have provided no proof that the man killed had anything to do with the terror attack on Israel. Would you like to show some now?

BlaasForRafa

Jaafa wrote: »

Really? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to show how terrifying these rocket attacks are, how damaging they are?

Would you like me to put up videos of entire neighborhoods reduced to rubble, multistory apartment complexes crumbling under airstrikes, white phosphorus landing on top of hospitals, the streets lined with bodies? Shall we see how they compare? Are they comparable?

What about this, what about that?

One of the tactics that anti-Israeli posters try and use is the "oh well the rockets aren't very effective" gambit. Because the weapons aren't as effective as Israeli ones it somehow makes it not so bad. They gloss over the intent of the rocket firers, their intent is not to land in scrubland and explode harmlessly, their intent is to land in populated areas and kill/injure as many people as possible and there is no attempt by the firers to differentiate between civilians and military.

wes

The Israeli wrote: »

Good.

So you approve of all the pointless violence. Good to know.

The Israeli wrote: »

Israel killed a militant who is responsible for Israeli deaths,

Well considering the crime he was accused was actually carried out by someone else, and as such we have established that Israel was lieing, and as such they broke the informal ceasefire. So what you are saying you reserve the right to violence, regardless of a ceasefire or not.

The Israeli wrote: »

they reacted by launching rockets on population,

Deplorable action by Palestinian groups, but it was caused by your government breaking the ceasefire.

The Israeli wrote: »

we strike them back.

Killing and injuring civilians as your country always does. Perhaps sticking to the cease fire would have been better, avoid all the death and destruction.

Also, if you have a right to retaliate so does the other guy. You can't play the victim card after breaking the cease fire. Your country chose violence, and got violence in return.

Basically, you think you have an unlimited right to attack Palestinians and kill and maim militant and civilian alike (sorry but I don't believe the old IDF lie, of them not targetting civilians, the numbers and past statement by Israeli leaders clearly show up this blatant lie), but then claim to be victim, when you are on the recieving end of retaliation again to maim IDF and civilian alike. The only way for the violence to stop, is for both sides to stop it. You can't expect for the Palestinians to cease all violence, while your country engage in violence itself.

The Israeli wrote: »

Better? I didn't think you need that chewed up and digested for you to understand..

Considering that you were clearly suggesting that Israel was engaging in retaliation earlier, and not you know breaking an informal ceasefire and hence kicking off pointless violence, and are now back tracking.....

Jaafa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

What about this, what about that?

One of the tactics that anti-Israeli posters try and use is the "oh well the rockets aren't very effective" gambit. Because the weapons aren't as effective as Israeli ones it somehow makes it not so bad. They gloss over the intent of the rocket firers, their intent is not to land in scrubland and explode harmlessly, their intent is to land in populated areas and kill/injure as many people as possible and there is no attempt by the firers to differentiate between civilians and military.

This comes back to my point of there being a reason why both attempted murder and manslaughter carry the same punishment in law.

While the intent of the rockets is deplorable, what is most important is their results.

Even if we take that those that fire rockets are attempted murders(i.e try to kill people but rarely ever do), and the IDF only ever kill innocents as a result of manslaughter(i.e don't try to kill people but almost always do), the punishment should be the same, regardless of intent. This is not the case however.

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

Well considering the crime he was accused was actually carried out by someone else, and as such we have established that Israel was lieing, and as such they broke the informal ceasefire. So what you are saying you reserve the right to violence, regardless of a ceasefire or not.

Deplorable action by Palestinian groups, but it was caused by your government breaking the ceasefire.

Considering that you were clearly suggesting that Israel was engaging in retaliation earlier, and not you know breaking an informal ceasefire and hence kicking off pointless violence, and are now back tracking.....

There is a ceasefire with Hamas but afaik there has never been a ceasefire between Israel and the Islamic Jihad and PRC. IJ and PRC have been involved in attacks on Israel for ages while Hamas has been quiet.

Iirc hamas hasn't been targeted in this latest flashpoint and to date Hamas fighters don't seem to be involved in the latest rocket attacks.