England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

totallegend

Alright lads, any chance we could go back on topic?

Was on Paddy Power last night, England are three point favourites on the handicap, sounds about right to me after the performance they put in last weekend, but I think we can do it and here's how:

1) Ben Morgan needs to be stopped first time; in a back row with Croft and Robshaw, Morgan is the only one with the power to break tackles and hurt Ireland in close. If our back-row can hit him hard first-up, then a big part of England's game will be nullified, and luckily for us Heaslip and Ferris have been defensively excellent this year.

2) Manu Tuilagi; as above, can't be allowed get a head of steam up and this is why we need to see the sort of defensive line speed that we saw against France (and why the drift defence of the Wales game will sink us).

3) Forward power; it's rare enough that an Irish front-row has the potential to dominate their English counterparts, but we have been very solid in the scrum so far and Corbisiero/Hartley/Cole is not a vintage unit. We need to back ourselves in attacking positions, try to get a wheel on and open up the field for Heaslip and Reddan.

4) Pace on the game; this England team is inexperienced as a unit, we need to exploit the lack of game time they've had together, that means keeping the tempo up, taking the quick taps if it's on, keeping the ball alive as much as possible. If we go for territory and set-pieces, it gives England time to get their defensive structure back in place, but maybe if we keep it mobile, the gaps will open up for us.

I'd say Ireland by 5-7 points.

irishbucsfan

Quite obvious that anyone who thinks our players aren't at the top of the game are in a clear minority. They're quite easy to ignore.

I think we have clearly underachieved though. The fact we are 4th in terms of 6 nations success definitely shows that. Hopefully we see a big change that results in players performing to their fullest potential, which they clearly have not done for a while.

leftleg

teednab-el wrote: »

Never knew they had a pair with all the Slams they left after them in the 2000's. That's a typical stuck up Irish supporter response from you. Ah yeah Ireland have been a great team, we should be proud.

[Evil Troll - deep & grumbling]
I am a troll and I live in a hole,
...da da da...
It's under a bridge where I charge the toll.
I save the money,
To spend on beer.
And the local people,
They live in fear!

[Lovely Trolletts - very squeaky]
He is a troll and he lives in a hole,
It's not much, but he's only a troll!
He wastes his money,
On rum and beer,
The local people,
They stay well clear!!!

[Evil Troll - deep & grumbling]
I am a troll and I love to growl
...da da da...
Yeah, a big yell or a terrible howl
One thing, they say,
I yell more than most.
At the break of day,
Way before your toast.

ITS ENGLAND V IRELAND ON PADDY'S DAY!!!
C'MON THE BOYS IN GREEN; SHOW US THE WAY!!!

PS my son is 3 tomorrow; make him and his father deliriously happy!!:D

OldRio

totallegend wrote: »

Alright lads, any chance we could go back on topic?

Was on Paddy Power last night, England are three point favourites on the handicap, sounds about right to me after the performance they put in last weekend, but I think we can do it and here's how:

1) Ben Morgan needs to be stopped first time; in a back row with Croft and Robshaw, Morgan is the only one with the power to break tackles and hurt Ireland in close. If our back-row can hit him hard first-up, then a big part of England's game will be nullified, and luckily for us Heaslip and Ferris have been defensively excellent this year.

2) Manu Tuilagi; as above, can't be allowed get a head of steam up and this is why we need to see the sort of defensive line speed that we saw against France (and why the drift defence of the Wales game will sink us).

3) Forward power; it's rare enough that an Irish front-row has the potential to dominate their English counterparts, but we have been very solid in the scrum so far and Corbisiero/Hartley/Cole is not a vintage unit. We need to back ourselves in attacking positions, try to get a wheel on and open up the field for Heaslip and Reddan.

4) Pace on the game; this England team is inexperienced as a unit, we need to exploit the lack of game time they've had together, that means keeping the tempo up, taking the quick taps if it's on, keeping the ball alive as much as possible. If we go for territory and set-pieces, it gives England time to get their defensive structure back in place, but maybe if we keep it mobile, the gaps will open up for us.

I'd say Ireland by 5-7 points.

Great post.
I wonder, just wonder if we put pressure and points on them, they might not have the experience to come back at us.
Gut feeling and all that but Ireland by 10 points.

Fishooks12

Like Irishbucasfan said above, stopping Morgan and Tualagi will be crucial but singling out big ball carriers and threats is something Kidney does very well by in large so I think we'll do this

After that it's hard to see how England will win the game without their two best ball carriers when the simple fact is we have 4 or 5 ball carriers capable of getting over the gainline if they concentrate on stopping Ferris and SOB

Scrum will be an area we should be looking to dominate and hopefully Ross and Healy can continue in that vein of form because there's nothing sweeter than seeing Dan Coles bewildered face after conceding a penalty in the tight

A proper rushed line defence will hurt Tuilagi's impact.

However, Farrell has shown pretty good awareness, so Kearney will need to be on his toes for the chips through.

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate that people feel the need to insult players to critically assess them.

It renders their posts almost unreadable.

I've had a go at plenty of players, managers etc solely for the reason that in my estimation they are underperforming / not good enough / makeing too many mistakes etc.

But simply calling a team callous etc is a waste of everyone's time. If you want decent debate / discussion of things, you've got to realise that there's manners and etiquette involved.

eg
"Conor Murray is ****e" - causes the average poster to skip through, the Conor fans to take exception, and the thread to go to muck
"Conor Murray isn't the right man to play the gameplan that we've seen give us the best results in the past 3 years. We need someone snappier, and we need to realise that taking risks isn't necessarily a bad thing. Of course there will be times when they don't work out. But this low risk, no reward game that we've been trying hasn't garnered results. Murray's strengths don't lie in a quick game with few breaks in play. He's not the fastest scrum half (decision making wise) and his instincts look to be curbed by a conservative approach that has been fostered through the ages at his club. We've seen them trying to turn this around recently, and we're going to see Murray growing into a new gameplan in coming years, but at the moment, he's not the right man". - This kind of opinion can actually be discussed etc.

So.... You're saying he's ****e then?








Just kidding...

Fishooks12

Deleted User wrote: »

A proper rushed line defence will hurt Tuilagi's impact.

However, Farrell has shown pretty good awareness, so Kearney will need to be on his toes for the chips through.

And Reddan Bowe and Trimble to an extent!

One would think that Kidney will have this stressed if we are adopting the blitz defense again though

.ak

Fishooks12 wrote: »

And Reddan Bowe and Trimble to an extent!

One would think that Kidney will have this stressed if we are adopting the blitz defense again though

TBH If he hasn't I'll be disappointed, and I think we'd lose.

Fishooks12

.ak wrote: »

TBH If he hasn't I'll be disappointed, and I think we'd lose.

Can't see us standing a chance if we don't but I think he finally learned his lesson in the opener! Only took him two losses to Wales!"

irishbucsfan

I think there'll be a lot of aggression in the defense in the first half and it'll be a close low scoring first half.

Not sure how it'll go once TOL and ROG come on for Reddan and DArcy. The final 30 minutes we'll lose rhythm but I wouldn't put it past a last minute ROG drop goal.

It'll all come down to our superiority in the forwards in the second half imo. Hopefully.

totallegend

Deleted User wrote: »

A proper rushed line defence will hurt Tuilagi's impact.

However, Farrell has shown pretty good awareness, so Kearney will need to be on his toes for the chips through.

Good point; the downfall of the rush defence is often the chip over the top so I think Reddan has a role to play here. He's not the most aggressive tackler but he is quick and has a good awareness of the game, so maybe there's a "sweeper" role he could play, to sit behind the defensive line.

fitz

As in previous games, I reckon we'll be dominant for the periods of the game that we employ the rush defence, and we'll cough up points for any periods we employ the drift.

I hope we don't do what we did against France, build a lead then try to sit on it.
If we get ahead, we need to stick with what's working and not change tack at half time to try and defend our way to a win. If we give the likes of Tuilagi space to build up momentum, we're asking for trouble.

I feel the same as usual - if we play to our potential, I think we can win comprehensively. My confidence levels on the team being given instructions to play in a manner that allows that potential to be realised however, are low. Nervous about this game. Could go either way.

Lelantos

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Like Irishbucasfan said above, stopping Morgan and Tualagi will be crucial but singling out big ball carriers and threats is something Kidney does very well by in large so I think we'll do this

After that it's hard to see how England will win the game without their two best ball carriers when the simple fact is we have 4 or 5 ball carriers capable of getting over the gainline if they concentrate on stopping Ferris and SOB

Scrum will be an area we should be looking to dominate and hopefully Ross and Healy can continue in that vein of form because there's nothing sweeter than seeing Dan Coles bewildered face after conceding a penalty in the tight

Just a thought, but should the English not be worried about how to stop our backs?! Kearney in great attacking form, Earls making great darts thu the middle, Bowe in the tryscoring form of his life, think the English are living more in fear than we are personally.

Fishooks12

Lelantos wrote: »

Just a thought, but should the English not be worried about how to stop our backs?! Kearney in great attacking form, Earls making great darts thu the middle, Bowe in the tryscoring form of his life, think the English are living more in fear than we are personally.

I agree, we have far more game breakers

They have Healy, Heaslip, Ferris, Sean O Brien all to worry about in our pack, all world class ball carriers when on form. They simply don't have that kind of ball carrying talent in the pack

cork exile in london

i think the chap morgan is serious ball carier in there pack. croft is quick but ferris should muller him.

snow mad

Fishooks12 wrote: »

This guy has been posting nothing but negativity without any real fact to back up his claims for the last few weeks

He even said Sexton couldn't kick a while back :rolleyes:

Ah i think you will find i only signed up this wk. :rolleyes: Even though i am a munster fan i am also a sexton fan and i dont think you will be able to find any post of mine even related to Sexton

totallegend

cork exile in london wrote: »

i think the chap morgan is serious ball carier in there pack. croft is quick but ferris should muller him.

Croft is a bit of a luxury player IMO, wonderful when he gets a bit of open space because he is blindingly quick for a forward, but when it comes to the hard work required of a 6, he's not in the same league as Ferris, Lydiate or Dusautoir. Croft is a good line-out option for them, so we'll need Heaslip to be getting up in the air and competing at the tail.

Fishooks12

snow mad wrote: »

Ah i think you will find i only signed up this wk. :rolleyes: Even though i am a munster fan i am also a sexton fan and i dont think you will be able to find any post of mine even related to Sexton

Sorry? I was on about teenebulb not you

snow mad

I think if we can keep a high intensity and line speed up for the first half we should be in a fairly commanding position at half time but this english team may not crumble under the pressure i think they have shown some fairly good character in this 6n the scotland france games and nearly clenching the draw in the wales game.

for me it will come down to us having the legs in the 2nd half. I think best will only play about 50 mins as will darcy but lets hope its Mcfadden that replaces darcy if o gara if going to see any game time it should be for sexton after say 65mins if there is to be changes to the back row i would like to see O Brien to go 8 and O Mahony to 7

snow mad

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Sorry? I was on about teenebulb not you

Sorry jumped the gun a bit. realised after i posted

JRant

snow mad wrote: »

I think if we can keep a high intensity and line speed up for the first half we should be in a fairly commanding position at half time but this english team may not crumble under the pressure i think they have shown some fairly good character in this 6n the scotland france games and nearly clenching the draw in the wales game.

for me it will come down to us having the legs in the 2nd half. I think best will only play about 50 mins as will darcy but lets hope its Mcfadden that replaces darcy if o gara if going to see any game time it should be for sexton after say 65mins if there is to be changes to the back row i would like to see O Brien to go 8 and O Mahony to 7

We haven't played a high intensity game for 80 mins this year and I don't see that changing.
ROG and TOL will come on around the 50-55 min mark along with POM for SOB, barring injury to either Ferris or Heaslip. Like last week it wont matter how we're playing at the time. If we're down by a score or two DK could be justified in doing this however last week the team was just starting to click when he emptied the bench for no apparent reason.
England are a good team, make no mistake about it, and at home they should have enough to beat us if we revert to type from the past 2-3 seasons.

Lelantos

JRant wrote: »

We haven't played a high intensity game for 80 mins this year and I don't see that changing.
ROG and TOL will come on around the 50-55 min mark along with POM for SOB, barring injury to either Ferris or Heaslip. Like last week it wont matter how we're playing at the time. If we're down by a score or two DK could be justified in doing this however last week the team was just starting to click when he emptied the bench for no apparent reason.
England are a good team, make no mistake about it, and at home they should have enough to beat us if we revert to type from the past 2-3 seasons.

4 games in 4 weeks is an apparent reason, that & Best, Sexton, Ferris are all carrying knocks of various degrees thru the 6n, players need to be nursed thru & given breaks when needed.

Tox56

Lelantos wrote: »

4 games in 4 weeks is an apparent reason, that & Best, Sexton, Ferris are all carrying knocks of various degrees thru the 6n, players need to be nursed thru & given breaks when needed.

Then why did he keep Sexton on the field when he brought O'Gara on?

nerd69

Tox56 wrote: »

Then why did he keep Sexton on the field when he brought O'Gara on?

darcys older he needs a rest more than sexton

Tox56

nerd69 wrote: »

darcys older he needs a rest more than sexton

The post I was responding to said Sexton was carrying a knock and needed to be nursed through.

If you want to rest D'Arcy, bring on McFadden.

roycon

i can feel it in my veins that sean obrien is going to be doling out boshes left right and centre and win man of the match. hon ta **** ireland

Lelantos

Tox56 wrote: »

Then why did he keep Sexton on the field when he brought O'Gara on?

I said thru the 6n, you know as well as i do that he had a leg strain & was nursed over the first game or 2, Fez has a slight shoulder injury, but Best is the one that cant last 80 mins, 50-55 mins & he has to come off. DK seems to like the idea of having 2 kickers on & playing Sexton @12

nerd69

Tox56 wrote: »

The post I was responding to said Sexton was carrying a knock and needed to be nursed through.

If you want to rest D'Arcy, bring on McFadden.

fair enough didnt realise sexton was carrying a knock aswell.
i think they want to see if the sexton o gara combo works. dont see the point personally i would have understood it when sextons kicking was off but hes kicking very well at the moment. the distribution would improve but o garas a liability in defense. all in all i think your right mcfaddens more interesting a prospect.

JRant

Lelantos wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

We haven't played a high intensity game for 80 mins this year and I don't see that changing.
ROG and TOL will come on around the 50-55 min mark along with POM for SOB, barring injury to either Ferris or Heaslip. Like last week it wont matter how we're playing at the time. If we're down by a score or two DK could be justified in doing this however last week the team was just starting to click when he emptied the bench for no apparent reason.
England are a good team, make no mistake about it, and at home they should have enough to beat us if we revert to type from the past 2-3 seasons.

4 games in 4 weeks is an apparent reason, that & Best, Sexton, Ferris are all carrying knocks of various degrees thru the 6n, players need to be nursed thru & given breaks when needed.

Well thats just plain wrong I'm afraid. Sexton and Ferris have played almost every minute so far. There was no reason for those changes in the context of how they were made.