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England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

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    #422
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Lelantos wrote: »
    I said thru the 6n, you know as well as i do that he had a leg strain & was nursed over the first game or 2, Fez has a slight shoulder injury, but Best is the one that cant last 80 mins, 50-55 mins & he has to come off. DK seems to like the idea of having 2 kickers on & playing Sexton @12

    Play McFadden at 12 and he has 2 kickers even if he takes Sexton off, arguably an even better kicker.


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    #423
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Tox56 wrote: »
    Then why did he keep Sexton on the field when he brought O'Gara on?
    I said thru the 6n, you know as well as i do that he had a leg strain & was nursed over the first game or 2, Fez has a slight shoulder injury, but Best is the one that cant last 80 mins, 50-55 mins & he has to come off. DK seems to like the idea of having 2 kickers on & playing Sexton @12

    With Best coming off at the 55 min mark DK feels he has to get the vice-captain on the pitch, hence the ridiculous reshuffle of our whole back line to fit ROG in.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #424
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    JRant wrote: »
    With Best coming off at the 55 min mark DK feels he has to get the vice-captain on the pitch, hence the ridiculous reshuffle of our whole back line to fit ROG in.

    i think ridiculous is a bit extreme it wouldn't be my first option but its not silly and at this level you cant just name anyone captain rog has experience so it makes sense.


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    #425
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    JRant wrote: »
    With Best coming off at the 55 min mark DK feels he has to get the vice-captain on the pitch, hence the ridiculous reshuffle of our whole back line to fit ROG in.
    Now who's being rediculous


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    #426
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    JRant wrote: »
    With Best coming off at the 55 min mark DK feels he has to get the vice-captain on the pitch, hence the ridiculous reshuffle of our whole back line to fit ROG in.

    Best came off at 55 because of a rib injury. Don't expect the same to happen again tomorrow

    He hasn't been subbed before 70 in any of the other games


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    #427
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Best came off at 55 because of a rib injury. Don't expect the same to happen again tomorrow

    He hasn't been subbed before 70 in any of the other games
    Best will be off before 60 mins tomorrow, that is pretty much certain,


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    #428
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Best will be off before 60 mins tomorrow, that is pretty much certain,

    How is it certain?

    He was being saved last week for this game, I expect him to be on with 5 to go if it's tight


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    #429
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    How is it certain?

    He was being saved last week for this game, I expect him to be on with 5 to go if it's tight
    He's still injured, if its tight after an hour, DK may leave him on, we shall see.


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    #430
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    nerd69 wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    With Best coming off at the 55 min mark DK feels he has to get the vice-captain on the pitch, hence the ridiculous reshuffle of our whole back line to fit ROG in.

    i think ridiculous is a bit extreme it wouldn't be my first option but its not silly and at this level you cant just name anyone captain rog has experience so it makes sense.

    It is ridiculous though. Your hooker gets injured so you change your halfbacks and centre!!! How does that make any sense at all?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #431
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    JRant wrote: »
    It is ridiculous though. Your hooker gets injured so you change your halfbacks and centre!!! How does that make any sense at all?

    to get a proven captain on the field


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    #432
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    hold on I'm just going to consult my all knowing crystal ball about what mysterious Declan will do with subs this weekend .............. and the crystal ball is stumped as well; literally the guy could do anything; hes mysterious Declan Kidney


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    #433
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Lelantos wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    With Best coming off at the 55 min mark DK feels he has to get the vice-captain on the pitch, hence the ridiculous reshuffle of our whole back line to fit ROG in.
    Now who's being rediculous

    Have you a point to make?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #434
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    nerd69 wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    It is ridiculous though. Your hooker gets injured so you change your halfbacks and centre!!! How does that make any sense at all?

    to get a proven captain on the field

    There were plenty of leaders on the field at the time though. We need to start getting away from this idea that you need 100 odd caps to be captain. Sure wasn't POM Munster captain a few times this season and he got hauled off despite putting in a decent shift.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #435
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    JRant wrote: »
    It is ridiculous though. Your hooker gets injured so you change your halfbacks and centre!!! How does that make any sense at all?
    What point are you making? Substituions are something that DK has been slow to make before, yet when he makes them, he gets criticised.
    I will say again, 4 games in 4 weeks is a lot at this level. D'arcy made his debut at 19 for Ireland, he's 32 now, and in that time he has only started 5 games against England (won all 5) Some players need to be protected & eased thru games more thamn others.


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    #436
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    JRant wrote: »
    There were plenty of leaders on the field at the time though. We need to start getting away from this idea that you need 100 odd caps to be captain. Sure wasn't POM Munster captain a few times this season and he got hauled off despite putting in a decent shift.

    im not saying i would have dont it im just saying thats why he did it
    he's experimenting with this partnership and changing things up thats what people want.

    Also no1 says you need 100 odd caps to be a captain but it was a close game and putting some1 whos not been a captain before making the decisions is silly experience matters in close games. who would you have given the armband because im a fan of pom but giving the armband to a man in his first cap is cheapening what should be a great honor.


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    #437
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Give it to Heaslip or Ferris.


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    #438
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Give it to Heaslip or Ferris.
    Sure, Ferris, Healy & Kearney have leadership abilities & could be considered for captain, Heaslip is best left to concentrate on his game at the moment & not have the added pressure of the captaincy on his shoulders.


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    #439
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Sure, Ferris, Healy & Kearney have leadership abilities & could be considered for captain, Heaslip is best left to concentrate on his game at the moment & not have the added pressure of the captaincy on his shoulders.

    Healy never stood out as a leader to me; hes an amazing player but most of the time hes the one getting pinged or dare i say it lazy running


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    #440
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    either way he could have done that but reshuffling the back line was not ridiculous


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    #441
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    I think people are reading too deeply into this. I don't believe ROG was brought on because Kidney wanted a "leader" on the field. He was brought on because, wether you agree or not, Kidney doesn't rate Mcfadden at 12 and would rather reshuffle the backline with Sexton at 12 & ROG at ten.


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    #442
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Lelantos wrote: »
    What point are you making? Substituions are something that DK has been slow to make before, yet when he makes them, he gets criticised.
    I will say again, 4 games in 4 weeks is a lot at this level. D'arcy made his debut at 19 for Ireland, he's 32 now, and in that time he has only started 5 games against England (won all 5) Some players need to be protected & eased thru games more thamn others.

    I've read this bit about five times now and still don't get it. Are you saying that D'Arcy is one of the players who needs to be eased through games? If so, what has him making his debut at 19 got to do with anything?


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    #443
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users Posts: 4,483 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    I just realised something - I mix soccer player Stephen Ireland up with Keith Earls. Anyone else have this problem. I have started to think of the two players in the same way, so Earls is not coming out of it too well! I have been impressed with Earls in the six nations, he's improved as a player, and has not been talking too much either, which is a good thing.


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    #444
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    totallegend wrote: »
    I've read this bit about five times now and still don't get it. Are you saying that D'Arcy is one of the players who needs to be eased through games? If so, what has him making his debut at 19 got to do with anything?
    D'arcy hasnt scored a competitive try in the 6n for 4 seasons or so, but as an inside cetre, thats not his job, its to make the hard firt few yards, put his body on the line & let others benefit from his work. His defensive abitities are top notch too, and yes, when you put your body on the line, you pick up knocks & injuries. My point is that he has played for Ireland for 13 years, almost completely first choice in that time, and yet, he has only played 5 times against england, injuries & strains take their toll & certain players have to be rested & wrapped in cotton wool at times.


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    #445
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    nerd69 wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    There were plenty of leaders on the field at the time though. We need to start getting away from this idea that you need 100 odd caps to be captain. Sure wasn't POM Munster captain a few times this season and he got hauled off despite putting in a decent shift.

    im not saying i would have dont it im just saying thats why he did it
    he's experimenting with this partnership and changing things up thats what people want.

    Also no1 says you need 100 odd caps to be a captain but it was a close game and putting some1 whos not been a captain before making the decisions is silly experience matters in close games. who would you have given the armband because im a fan of pom but giving the armband to a man in his first cap is cheapening what should be a great honor.
    Of course it's a great honour, never said it wasn't. Ferris or Heaslip I'd say, either would be fine with me. No way would I give it to ROG after the WC, what sort of captain would threaten to quit if not picked? Also, ROG is not the only player who can close out a tight game either.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #446
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    BoardsMember wrote: »
    I just realised something - I mix soccer player Stephen Ireland up with Keith Earls. Anyone else have this problem. I have started to think of the two players in the same way, so Earls is not coming out of it too well! I have been impressed with Earls in the six nations, he's improved as a player, and has not been talking too much either, which is a good thing.

    I've been impressed by Earls too, he really has improved. England will be his biggest test though, hasn't really come up against a decent 13 so far.

    Given the amount of time he has had to get it right, I still think there are other players who could have done just as well if not better given equal opportunity. However the man I thought was in prime position (Cave) is injured, so I am no longer too worried about Earls filling in there.

    Basically, unless Earls becomes a truly international class 13 (I don't think he will) I would rather see some others tried too.


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    #447
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Lelantos wrote: »
    totallegend wrote: »
    I've read this bit about five times now and still don't get it. Are you saying that D'Arcy is one of the players who needs to be eased through games? If so, what has him making his debut at 19 got to do with anything?
    D'arcy hasnt scored a competitive try in the 6n for 4 seasons or so, but as an inside cetre, thats not his job, its to make the hard firt few yards, put his body on the line & let others benefit from his work. His defensive abitities are top notch too, and yes, when you put your body on the line, you pick up knocks & injuries. My point is that he has played for Ireland for 13 years, almost completely first choice in that time, and yet, he has only played 5 times against england, injuries & strains take their toll & certain players have to be rested & wrapped in cotton wool at times.

    And the fact that a broken/shattered arm kept him out of the game for a long time and nearly ended his career.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #448
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    JRant wrote: »
    And the fact that a broken/shattered arm kept him out of the game for a long time and nearly ended his career.
    Yes indeed, that cost him a year out of the game, 5 games played out of a possible 12 against England, add that 1 for the broken arm & its still only 50%. Its not his fault of course, but i believe that if D'arcy was starting out in the pro game today, with the tailored fitness programes, specific regimes for certain bodytypes, he would maybe have played 10/12 perhaps.


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    #449
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    BoardsMember wrote: »
    I just realised something - I mix soccer player Stephen Ireland up with Keith Earls. Anyone else have this problem. I have started to think of the two players in the same way, so Earls is not coming out of it too well! I have been impressed with Earls in the six nations, he's improved as a player, and has not been talking too much either, which is a good thing.

    I don't understand the comparison :confused:


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    #450
    WeleaseWoderick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭WeleaseWoderick


    Lelantos wrote: »
    D'arcy hasnt scored a competitive try in the 6n for 4 seasons or so, but as an inside cetre, thats not his job, its to make the hard firt few yards, put his body on the line & let others benefit from his work. His defensive abitities are top notch too, and yes, when you put your body on the line, you pick up knocks & injuries. My point is that he has played for Ireland for 13 years, almost completely first choice in that time, and yet, he has only played 5 times against england, injuries & strains take their toll & certain players have to be rested & wrapped in cotton wool at times.

    He may have made his debut in 1999 but he wasn't first choice for Ireland in the centre until 2004. He only had 5 caps between 1999 and 2003.


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    #451
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    WeleaseWoderick wrote: »
    He may have made his debut in 1999 but he wasn't first choice for Ireland in the centre until 2004. He only had 5 caps between 1999 and 2003.
    Ok, take it as the 03/04 season was his big breakthru (Gatland had played him at 19, not afraid to give youth its chance) still thats 9 seasons, it just shows that the attrition & injury rate is quite high in certain postions, thats all.


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