England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

ironingbored

nerd69 wrote: »

to get a proven captain on the field

It's an experienced rugby player (Ferris, Heaslip, Kearney, Bowe) making decisions on the field.

They are hardly being asked to captain the space shuttle to Mars.

teednab-el

Fishooks12 wrote: »

snow mad wrote: »

and would you say new zealand teams over the years lack balls after all rwc's they have left behind them. some of the posts here make me sick if you dont like
irish team then dont watch them a team needs supporters not pessimists

This guy has been posting nothing but negativity without any real fact to back up his claims for the last few weeks

He even said Sexton couldn't kick a while back :rolleyes:

What I said about Ireland and them throwing away slams, is true and I have already posted my claims and facts as to why Ireland threw away at least 4 grand slams. Sexton cost us a triple crown in 2010 with his bad kicking but he's not as good as o Gara for place kicking but he is a better all round player. You can't accept that Ireland have underachieved.

totallegend

Lelantos wrote: »

Ok, take it as the 03/04 season was his big breakthru (Gatland had played him at 19, not afraid to give youth its chance) still thats 9 seasons, it just shows that the attrition & injury rate is quite high in certain postions, thats all.

2004-11 is eight seasons; he missed 2005 because of a hamstring strain fair enough but he missed 2008 because he broke his arm in seven places, not sure that counts as 'attrition'.

teednab-el

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate that people feel the need to insult players to critically assess them.

It renders their posts almost unreadable.

I've had a go at plenty of players, managers etc solely for the reason that in my estimation they are underperforming / not good enough / makeing too many mistakes etc.

But simply calling a team callous etc is a waste of everyone's time. If you want decent debate / discussion of things, you've got to realise that there's manners and etiquette involved.

eg
"Conor Murray is ****e" - causes the average poster to skip through, the Conor fans to take exception, and the thread to go to muck
"Conor Murray isn't the right man to play the gameplan that we've seen give us the best results in the past 3 years. We need someone snappier, and we need to realise that taking risks isn't necessarily a bad thing. Of course there will be times when they don't work out. But this low risk, no reward game that we've been trying hasn't garnered results. Murray's strengths don't lie in a quick game with few breaks in play. He's not the fastest scrum half (decision making wise) and his instincts look to be curbed by a conservative approach that has been fostered through the ages at his club. We've seen them trying to turn this around recently, and we're going to see Murray growing into a new gameplan in coming years, but at the moment, he's not the right man". - This kind of opinion can actually be discussed etc.

Here here

It's all to easy to come on and say something like "one grandslam with our golden generation, bunch of bottlers is all we are, happy to be losing and supporting bottlers"

Most of these posts aren't even backed up by any analysis other than a lazy cheap shot at the players as a whole

It's their job fishhooks. They are professionals not amateurs its whatvthey do for a living and I'm right to say they aren't doing a good job at winning international trophies. Cheap shot my sh**t Ireland are pathetic in the 6nations year in and out. Don't tell me 2nd place is good enough, if that's the way you think then that's fine but we are a sh*t rugby team full stop, if we weren't we would be winning titles like Wales do.

conor1979

teednab-el wrote: »

It's their job fishhooks. They are professionals not amateurs its whatvthey do for a living and I'm right to say they aren't doing a good job at winning international trophies.- just because they are professionals does not mean they are supermen or that it gaurantees a trophy!
Cheap shot my sh**t Ireland are pathetic in the 6nations year in and out. - Grand Slam 2009 and Triple Crowns aside of course!
Don't tell me 2nd place is good enough, if that's the way you think then that's fine but we are a sh*t rugby team full stop, if we weren't we would be winning titles like Wales do. - surely if we were ****e we would be winning the wooden spoon every year, not winning in cardiff the odd time, getting a draw in paris or winning in london three times out of the last four!:cool:

For a sport that is far from the most popular sport in the country and one that took a long time to come into the professional era I dont think we are doing too bad.

GerM

I wonder if someone who had never worked as an engineer but read the odd article and watched the box set of Extreme Engineering from Discovery turned around and told the top engineers and designers in the nation that they're "sh*t", would it be seen as a rational comment?

The company doesn't win every big contract they tendered for? "You're sh*t, you're useless, pathetic, you're supposed to be a professional".

Or, you know, the person would be talking absolute balls and making a fool of themselves and the professionals wouldn't take a blind bit of notice because they know a hell of a lot more is involved in their line of work than your average armchair fan pontificates on.

Annabella1

I have massive respect for every rugby player who gets an international cap especially in the modern game.they are not on hugh money comparing to equivalent sports but bring many people such enjoyment as well as giving Dublin a much needed tourist boost.I know a number of internationals who have had health problems after rugby and I wonder how the current crop will be in 20 yrs given the physicality of today's game.
So let's cheer on the lads tomorrow

CatFromHue

teednab-el wrote: »

It's their job fishhooks. They are professionals not amateurs its whatvthey do for a living and I'm right to say they aren't doing a good job at winning international trophies. Cheap shot my sh**t Ireland are pathetic in the 6nations year in and out. Don't tell me 2nd place is good enough, if that's the way you think then that's fine but we are a sh*t rugby team full stop, if we weren't we would be winning titles like Wales do.

Before this years tournament we had a win rate of 70% in the 6 Nations (42 wins in 60 games). This is the second highest of of all the teams in the 6 Nations, and only marginally behind France who have the highest win rate. Wales have a relatively poor 6 Nations history that's been punctuated by a few seasons where they have won Grand Slams. We have actually been consistently better than them over the history of the tournament, the 6 Nations that is. Over the last 3 tournaments (2011, 2010, 2009) Wales have finished fourth in every year. Ireland have finished third, second, and first in the same years.

We are not a sh*t team.

Strawberry Fields

I have us backed tomorrow at 11/8 and France to spoil the party at 12/5. After my success at Cheltenham expecting this to happen.

ScissorPaperRock

teednab-el wrote: »

It's their job fishhooks. They are professionals not amateurs its whatvthey do for a living and I'm right to say they aren't doing a good job at winning international trophies. Cheap shot my sh**t Ireland are pathetic in the 6nations year in and out. Don't tell me 2nd place is good enough, if that's the way you think then that's fine but we are a sh*t rugby team full stop, if we weren't we would be winning titles like Wales do.

The only question this raises for me is if you believe that Ireland have been and will continue to be so useless, why do you bother watching it? And why do you bother to post about it? I mean, personally speaking, if there was no sense of hope or belief that Ireland have a huge level of talent, and they can potentially achieve great things and do us proud then I think I would invest my support/interest/time in something else.

nerd69

teednab-el wrote: »

It's their job fishhooks. They are professionals not amateurs its whatvthey do for a living and I'm right to say they aren't doing a good job at winning international trophies. Cheap shot my sh**t Ireland are pathetic in the 6nations year in and out. Don't tell me 2nd place is good enough, if that's the way you think then that's fine but we are a sh*t rugby team full stop, if we weren't we would be winning titles like Wales do.

this reeks of trolling

DDC1990

First of all Happy St. Patricks day to you all.

Nothing more Irish then wanting to get one over on the English.

Today I support Healy, Best and Ross.
I support DOC, and Ryan.
I support Ferris, Heaslip and SOB
I support Redden and Sexton
I support D'Arcy and Earls
I support Trimble, Kearney and Bowe.
I support Cronin, Court, McCarthy, POM, TOL, ROG and McFadden.

Forget about provincial rivalry for the day. That will have its time over Easter.
Support the lads, fúck all the bitching and badmouthing, and moaning over selections and lack of success, and favourites and missed oppertunities.
We don't have a chance of winning this 6 Nations, but we can stop England winning it, and better yet, we have a chance to Beat England in Twickenham on St.Patricks Day.

Tomorrow we can have a big Post Mortum, and discuss where we went wrong and how if we had scored 4 more points we might have had a Grand Slam. But today lets keep it positive and patriotic for féck sake!

Beir Bua

Éire Abú

Otacon

Nice piece on Donnacha Ryan's career.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0317/1224313478764.html

rrpc

teednab-el wrote: »

What I said about Ireland and them throwing away slams, is true and I have already posted my claims and facts as to why Ireland threw away at least 4 grand slams. Sexton cost us a triple crown in 2010 with his bad kicking but he's not as good as o Gara for place kicking but he is a better all round player. You can't accept that Ireland have underachieved.

No, it's not true. Slams are extremely hard to win; since it became the 6N, it's just over 50% of tournaments result in a slam being won.

2000 - No slam
2001 - No slam
2002 - France slam with three home games (includes England and Ireland)
2003 - England slam with three home games (includes France)
2004 - France slam with three home games as above
2005 - Wales slam with two home games (England and Ireland)
2006 - No slam
2007 - No slam
2008 - Wales slam with three home games
2009 - Ireland Slam with two home games but they're France and England
2010 - France slam with three home games as above
2011 - No slam
2012 - Only Wales can slam now

It's generally accepted that Ireland's best chance to slam is in the odd years when we have both England and France at home. But we still have to win three away games including Wales and Scotland, traditionally difficult away games.

teednab-el

rrpc wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

What I said about Ireland and them throwing away slams, is true and I have already posted my claims and facts as to why Ireland threw away at least 4 grand slams. Sexton cost us a triple crown in 2010 with his bad kicking but he's not as good as o Gara for place kicking but he is a better all round player. You can't accept that Ireland have underachieved.

No, it's not true. Slams are extremely hard to win; since it became the 6N, it's just over 50% of tournaments result in a slam being won.

2000 - No slam
2001 - No slam
2002 - France slam with three home games (includes England and Ireland)
2003 - England slam with three home games (includes France)
2004 - France slam with three home games as above
2005 - Wales slam with two home games (England and Ireland)
2006 - No slam
2007 - No slam
2008 - Wales slam with three home games
2009 - Ireland Slam with two home games but they're France and England
2010 - France slam with three home games as above
2011 - No slam
2012 - Only Wales can slam now

It's generally accepted that Ireland's best chance to slam is in the odd years when we have both England and France at home. But we still have to win three away games including Wales and Scotland, traditionally difficult away games.

What you on about? Wales hadn't beaten Ireland in Cardiff only once in 20 years. Before 2003 we did find it difficult to beat Scotland in Murrayfield. Not anymore though.

eyeball kid

Lashing rain here in London at the moment. Think its suppose to stop later on. Hopefully doesn't turn into a mud bath.

bleg

RTE opening is embarrassing.

rrpc

teednab-el wrote: »

What you on about? Wales hadn't beaten Ireland in Cardiff only once in 20 years. Before 2003 we did find it difficult to beat Scotland in Murrayfield. Not anymore though.

Beating Wales in Cardiff has almost always been difficult, we won by a point in 2003 and by a missed kick in 2009. In between it's been honours even. We haven't had a great record against them at home either but since Gatland has taken over, Wales have beaten Ireland three out of the five last six nations matches and four out of the last six meetings in total.

Going back 20 years is misleading. Wales struggled with their structures in the early days of professionalism, but those days are gone. The national squad is now outperforming their 'provincial' squads.

dougieruggie

CatFromHue wrote: »

Before this years tournament we had a win rate of 70% in the 6 Nations (42 wins in 60 games). This is the second highest of of all the teams in the 6 Nations, and only marginally behind France who have the highest win rate. Wales have a relatively poor 6 Nations history that's been punctuated by a few seasons where they have won Grand Slams. We have actually been consistently better than them over the history of the tournament, the 6 Nations that is. Over the last 3 tournaments (2011, 2010, 2009) Wales have finished fourth in every year. Ireland have finished third, second, and first in the same years.

We are not a sh*t team.

Whose history would you prefer, ours or Wales?

Come off it

The_Kew_Tour

These people who laugh and cant accept Wales huge achievements in last number of years is laughable and just bitter.

dougieruggie

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

These people who laugh and cant accept Wales huge achievements in last number of years is laughable and just bitter.

Its pretty pathetic.

Ireland have never beaten NZ. We've won ONE Granslam in 60+years. Ireland have never gotten past the QF of the World Cup.

Wales must look at US and laugh.

mikedragon32

dougieruggie wrote: »

Its pretty pathetic.

Ireland have never beaten NZ. We've won ONE Granslam in 60+years. Ireland have never gotten past the QF of the World Cup.

Wales must look at US and laugh.

We get it... Now, unless you actually want to discuss the match today rather than pour scorn, it might be better for all concerned if you didn't post again on this thread.

Teferi

Getting excited for this...

dougieruggie

mikedragon32 wrote: »

We get it... Now, unless you actually want to discuss the match today rather than pour scorn, it might be better for all concerned if you didn't post again on this thread.

I'm not pouring scorn, I am responding to posters who seem to think that we have a better record than Wales which is untrue. The last 2 pages have been discussing this issue and I've no idea why you've decided to single me out all of a sudden. 'We get it' - stop trying to bully me off this forum.

but anyway,
of course I want to discuss the match today and will do so from here on in

LEIN

Who is the ref for this game?

bleg

Nigel Owens

teednab-el

rrpc wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

What you on about? Wales hadn't beaten Ireland in Cardiff only once in 20 years. Before 2003 we did find it difficult to beat Scotland in Murrayfield. Not anymore though.

Beating Wales in Cardiff has almost always been difficult, we won by a point in 2003 and by a missed kick in 2009. In between it's been honours even. We haven't had a great record against them at home either but since Gatland has taken over, Wales have beaten Ireland three out of the five last six nations matches and four out of the last six meetings in total.

Going back 20 years is misleading. Wales struggled with their structures in the early days of professionalism, but those days are gone. The national squad is now outperforming their 'provincial' squads.

Ireland v Wales 6 nations history

2000 Wales
2001 Ireland
2002 Ireland
2003 Ireland
2004 Ireland
2005 Wales
2006 Ireland
2007 Ireland
2008 Wales
2009 Ireland
2010 Ireland
2011 Wales
2012 Wales

8-5 to Ireland in wins.

There are a lot of posters on here who believe that Ireland have had a better record in Wales in the 6 nation's. How deluded are you to think that, look at the history books and you will be surprised. I would much prefer to have 3 grand slams ( wales will win today) under my belt than moral victories that have been always associated with Irish rugby teams.

dougieruggie

^ might need to edit that, I was just warned for going off topic.

LEIN

bleg wrote: »

Nigel Owens

I will say noting in fear of a hefty ban.

Benny Cake

DD9090 wrote: »

I will say noting in fear of a hefty ban.

Irish sides tend to fair ok with Owens, no?