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Pros and Cons of MacBooks...

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    #32
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Samsung are making some beauts these days the 9 series is amazing looking kit although a touch pricey:

    Series9_6x4.jpg


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    #33
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Dells have sunk an awful a lot in my estimation. They used to be a rock solid Business PC maker but they've turned to cheap, underpowered consumer muck in the last decade. I don't rate them at all any more.

    They still do business PCs worth a damn, ignore the Vostro/Inspiron cack and keep your eye on the Precision, Latitude & OptiPlex lines - they'll rarely steer you wrong (though the Latitude 21xx exercise in "netbook size & spec at mid-range laptop prices" was something they deserved a damn good kicking for).

    OP, if you're looking at buying in the US bear in mind that, if you need support for it, you may end up being told to go to a "local" (ie US) store. Apple aren't the greatest believer in international support provision, though it depends on your circumstances. (Also, their nonsensical attitude of insisting that on-site support is only available for desktops is the sort of thing that makes me want to go and do something unhygienic and impolite right on their stupid %^&*ing "Genius" bar, but that's another matter...)


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    #34
    Togepi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,813 ✭✭✭Togepi


    Thanks for all of your replies!

    For the record I'd happily buy a Windows laptop, I was just wondering what was so special about Macs. And now that it's been pointed out that SolidWorks doesn't work on Macs, I'll definitely have to go for a Windows laptop. Any suggestions are welcome! :)

    Also, which are the best makers of laptops? I never thought Samsung were any good, but they seem to be rated pretty highly in a few reviews I've read.


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    #35
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Fysh wrote: »
    keep your eye on the Precision, Latitude & OptiPlex lines - they'll rarely steer you wrong

    Agreed, they still do quality but at a price.

    In tough times manufacturers enter the race to the bottom and they're not the only ones to be blamed. If people want to buy cheap, provide for them or close your shop, simple as that.

    It's a bit silly to compare niche products such as Apple computers (with a market share hardly worth mentioning) to the rest of the pack.


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    #36
    Togepi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,813 ✭✭✭Togepi


    (I won't be buying unti next spring, if that makes a difference. And all going well I'll be buying from the US.)


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    #37
    Arciphel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭Arciphel


    In the ultra book area the MacBook Air is a lot better than any equivalent Win7 product at the moment. MacBook Pro I am not so sure. For a desktop I would go Win7 all the way (64bit). It all depends what you want.


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    #38
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Togepi wrote: »
    Thanks for all of your replies!

    For the record I'd happily buy a Windows laptop, I was just wondering what was so special about Macs. And now that it's been pointed out that SolidWorks doesn't work on Macs, I'll definitely have to go for a Windows laptop. Any suggestions are welcome! :)

    Also, which are the best makers of laptops? I never thought Samsung were any good, but they seem to be rated pretty highly in a few reviews I've read.

    Samsung
    Dell
    Acer
    Asus
    Lenova
    Toshiba
    HP

    All pretty good depending on the model


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    #39
    Togepi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,813 ✭✭✭Togepi


    Arciphel wrote: »
    In the ultra book area the MacBook Air is a lot better than any equivalent Win7 product at the moment. MacBook Pro I am not so sure. For a desktop I would go Win7 all the way (64bit). It all depends what you want.

    By the time I'm buying ultra books will probably have improved quite a bit though, surely? And I need to get Windows so Apple's out of the question now.


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    #40
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    profile.jpg


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    #41
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    If you're comparing a Macbook with that laptop that has seemingly the same spec but costs half the price then what you're doing is you're comparing a Toyota Carina with a BMW.
    The Carina may have the same size engine and the same break horsepower and it may have air-condition and a cd player too, same as the BMW, but yet its not quite the same car.
    I'm not saying one is better than the other, well it is of course, but the question is, is that 'better' worth it to you.

    I bought a pretty recent (about a year old) Macbook Pro lately - my first ever Mac - and I love the thing. Now from the fact I bought it second hand you can see I'm not too chuffed about the price tag myself. I could have got a brand new 'same spec' laptop for the same money, but after a couple of month the only regret I have is why didn't I get one earlier.
    But then I'm 'only' using it for coding and for general purpose as in email, inet, office, bit of this and that. Not sure if you can find an affordable Macbook if you're into high end gaming or other specialty stuff.

    I love the fact it has all the right things and it not only has them but it has them right if you know what I mean. I love all the little details, like the great keyboard and touchpad, the fantastic screen, the really long lasting battery, the single piece aluminum case, even the little magnetic power plug. I love the fact it has a UNIX underneath (OK, I concede you don't have to put Windows on your 'normal' laptop). I love the multi finger gestures and the keyboard shortcuts that are consistent across all the applications.

    I'm an IT professional and generally speaking it gives me that good feeling that you get from a quality tool compared to one from the DIY store. I'm pretty sure you can find similar from other manufacturers but you would;t be far away from the Mac price tag then either.


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    #42
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Boskowski wrote: »
    If you're comparing a Macbook with that laptop that has seemingly the same spec but costs half the price then what you're doing is you're comparing a Toyota Carina with a BMW.
    The Carina may have the same size engine and the same break horsepower and it may have air-condition and a cd player too, same as the BMW, but yet its not quite the same car.
    I'm not saying one is better than the other, well it is of course, but the question is, is that 'better' worth it to you.
    I bought a pretty recent (about a year old) Macbook Pro lately - my first ever Mac - and I love the thing. I could have got a brand new 'same spec' laptop for the same money, but the only regret I have is why didn't I get one earlier.
    But then I'm using it for coding and for general purpose as in email, inet, office. Not sure if you can find an affordable Macbook if you're into high end gaming or other specialty stuff.

    <snip>


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    #43
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Boskowski wrote: »
    If you're comparing a Macbook with that laptop that has seemingly the same spec but costs half the price then what you're doing is you're comparing a Toyota Carina with a BMW.
    The Carina may have the same size engine and the same break horsepower and it may have air-condition and a cd player too, same as the BMW, but yet its not quite the same car.
    I'm not saying one is better than the other, well it is of course, but the question is, is that 'better' worth it to you.
    I bought a pretty recent (about a year old) Macbook Pro lately - my first ever Mac - and I love the thing. I could have got a brand new 'same spec' laptop for the same money, but the only regret I have is why didn't I get one earlier.
    But then I'm using it for coding and for general purpose as in email, inet, office. Not sure if you can find an affordable Macbook if you're into high end gaming or other specialty stuff.

    Hey Grandad!!! You do realise the Toyota Carina stopped being sold here when it was replaced by the Avensis in 1997? :eek:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Carina


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    #44
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    fionny wrote: »
    Bull****_Dock_Icon_by_XakorXD.png

    Image linking 0, swear filter 1

    :D


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    #45
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Torqay wrote: »
    Image linking 0, swear filter 1

    :D

    Ya and that was the second one i tried :P I figured the message was there just the same.


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    #46
    yoyo
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭yoyo


    Just to remind folks not to post anything which may be considered trolling/abusive by other members. Cheers :)

    My Beer Glass collection site 🍺

    My Irish Callcards site



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    #47
    fionny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    I think what seals the deal between macs and windows is simple... the majority of companies develop primarily for windows, mac's are an after thought if that in alot of cases.

    If you compare like specs with likes specs its not comparing a toyota with a bmw its actually comparing like with like... the same processors made by the same company are inside the motherboards might be different but MB's will not make or break a system (provided you go with a reasonable manufacturer) .. the hard-drives are third party etc....

    the only REAL difference with macs is you have OSX (and its not strictly the only way of having this)

    Some people think its the dogs and many many more people dont see anything in it.

    I had a mac for a time an imac to be precise and it crashed more then the windows machine parked beside while only streaming music, instead of crashes they are call kernel panics.. and the effect is the same.


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    #48
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    Hey Grandad!!! You do realise the Toyota Carina stopped being sold here when it was replaced by the Avensis in 1997? :eek:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Carina

    :)

    I do know that. I choose the Carina because for me it's always going to be the epitome of the 'rattely sh1tbox' ;)


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    #49
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    So are you genuinely saying if you had two machines of similar spec one MacBook and one run of the mill laptop you d have no reason to go for the macbook provided the price tag is unimportant?

    And leave the Os out of it for the moment. You can run Macos on some non-apple laptops the same way you can run windows on a MacBook as we all know.

    And for the record I don't care about pissing contests. I have both a think pad and a MacBook and they're both good machines in their own right.


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    #50
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Boskowski wrote: »
    So are you genuinely saying if you had two machines of similar spec one MacBook and one run of the mill laptop you d have no reason to go for the macbook provided the price tag is unimportant?

    And leave the Os out of it for the moment. You can run Macos on some non-apple laptops the same way you can run windows on a MacBook as we all know.

    And for the record I don't care about pissing contests. I have both a think pad and a MacBook and they're both good machines in their own right.

    No you can't, you can only legally run it on Apple hardware


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    #51
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    No you can't, you can only legally run it on Apple hardware

    Not true, PearC is selling PCs from €599 with Mac OSX preinstalled. They also offer high-end machines with 6 Core Xeon processors, way beyond anything Apple has yet to offer


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    #52
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    Torqay wrote: »
    Not true, PearC is selling PCs from €699 with Mac OSX preinstalled.

    Note the word "legally" there. It is illegal to run MacOS except on Apple hardware.


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    #53
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Torqay wrote: »
    Not true, PearC is selling PCs from €699 with Mac OSX preinstalled.

    Its against the apple license agreement to run osx on non-apple hardware, you'll notice that discussions of hacintosh are not really allowed on the mac forum for this reason.

    Just because something is available doesn't make it legal, warez copy of software are a perfect example of this...available but again does not make them legal :)


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    #54
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Its against the apple license agreement to run osx on non-apple hardware, you'll notice that discussions of hacintosh are not really allowed on the mac forum for this reason

    PearC is not selling Hackintosh's and they're perfectly legitimate. No legal implications, ar least not within the EU.


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    #55
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    No you can't, you can only legally run it on Apple hardware

    Which means of course you can if you're not too hung up about the legal bit.

    We're into nitpicking now. I will not engage in a mac/non mac flame war just in case it's heading that way.


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    #56
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Torqay wrote: »
    Not true, PearC is selling PCs from €699 with Mac OSX preinstalled.

    There are other clones from China too, don't mean they're legit.

    Put OSX on non Apple hardware you're breaking the EULA. PearC only get around that because the company’s main argument is that since you can’t read the EULA before purchase, it’s not valid. It only stands in Germany and only until Apple crush them.


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    #57
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    Torqay wrote: »
    PearC is not selling Hackintosh's and they're perfectly legitimate.

    They most definitely are hackintoshes - a hackintosh is a non-Apple computer running the Apple OS.

    As for "perfectly legitimate," that's still up for debate. They're still relatively low-profile, so Apple hasn't hit them hard yet. Give it time.

    Also - would you really want some hardware that could stop working at any time after a software update that breaks whatever loophole the device is using?


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    #58
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    As for "perfectly legitimate," that's still up for debate. They're still relatively low-profile, so Apple hasn't hit them hard yet. Give it time.

    According to european laws Apple's EULA is void and Apple is well aware of it.

    And they most certainly have heard of them. PyStar, a US firm with a similar concept, has been shut down by Apple in no time. PearC has not even been contacted by Apple, never mind legally challenged.

    I believe the clause that voided the OSX Eula in the EU is this:
    Apple's EULA witch forbids their operating system to be installed on non-apple computers

    -ONLY APPLIES IF IT CAN BE SEEN BEFORE PURCHASE.


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    #59
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    Torqay wrote: »
    According to european laws Apple's EULA is void and Apple is well aware of it.

    And they most certainly have heard of them. PyStar, a US firm with a similar concept, has been shut down by Apple in no time. PearC has not even been contacted by Apple, never mind legally challenged.

    I believe the clause that voided the OSX Eula in the EU is this:

    You mean this one:
    http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx1073.pdf


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    #60
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Also - would you really want some hardware that could stop working at any time after a software update that breaks whatever loophole the device is using?

    The question is not if I want a PearC computer, just saying that that it isn't illegal.

    The story was making quite a few waves about 3 years ago and I haven't heard of any case where Apple "broke" any of these by machines by way of an update.


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    #61
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    You mean this one:
    http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx1073.pdf

    That's the very one and according to European law, any End User License Agreement ONLY APPLIES IF IT CAN BE SEEN BEFORE PURCHASE.

    If you buy the operating system in a shop, you don't see the EULA until you take it home and install it on your Mac, which is clearly AFTER the purchase and thus you are no longer bound by restrictions set out in the EULA.

    Or so the argumentation goes...

    Theoretically, any seller/retailer must make a hard copy of the EULA available to the customer prior to the purchase and demand it to be read and agreed to. And yes, Apple has been contacted re PearC by major newspapers and magazines and their only comment was that they would not comment.

    And it's not that Apple has been cut out from the profit entirely, PearC is selling legitimate copies of Mac OSX with their products.


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