So is Brendan Rodgers the real deal?

Neil3030

Many managers have taken their clubs up from The Championship and initially looked good; Phil Brown, Roberto Di Matteo, Ian Holloway, etc., but ultimately their bubble burst, whether it was due to a novel approach being found out, better players leaving, managerial bust ups or whatever other reason.

Swansea look to be different though, as their system isn't built around one or two star players, nor is it an ambitious style which will soon be found out; they keep the ball on the ground and look to play nice stuff when in possession, and they supplement this with good organisation and defensive unity when they are not. Simple, but so far very effective.

As we approach the middle of March, you would imagine their dip, were it to happen, would already have set in. Further, their win today brings them to 36 points, a tally which should, barring the most horrendous of calamities, see them survive to play in the Premiership next season, which unto itself is an incredible achievement.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers kicks on from this. For example, I dare say Swansea could lose their better players and Rodgers would know exactly where and how to replace them. He is also showing a few other qualities which could really stand to him; for instance, he speaks Spanish and is learning Italian. This shows he's no fool and has a good deal of foresight in preparing for effective communication with a multicultural squad. Whether any of this translates to more football related intelligence, we will have to wait and see.

P.S. I could just as easily have made this thread about Lambert, by the way.

Paul Tergat

Coyle is a god example of how things can change very quickly.

Not saying they are the same but it can turn next season

Neil3030

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Coyle is a god example of how things can change very quickly.

Not saying they are the same but it can turn next season

Yeah that's true alright; I'd completely forgotten about Coyle.

kryogen

Far too early to call with BR.

Impossible to say if he is the real deal at this moment in time, he hasn't been outstanding in his time at Reading from what I remember but he is doing a brilliant, beyond brilliant actually, job at Swansea and fair play to him

Paully D

Nope, he's just flavour of the month. They'll struggle big time next season IMO.

You look at the teams who could come up from the Championship this year (West Ham, Southampton, for example) and they're going to make the PL much tougher next year.

There's loads of managers who have had a good season in the Premier League, get raved about and then fade off into the sunset.

Fair play they've had a great season, but knowing football these days they'll be struggling by Christmas and he'll get the sack.

To be honest I'll be amazed if Swansea are a PL club and Rodgers is a PL manager in 2 years time, such is the nature of the game.

opr

From what I have read Swansea isn't just something that happened overnight or since Brendan Rodgers took over the club. They have been consistently promoting a certain football philosophy for years. They have promoted this throughout the club, through the age groups and at all levels.

They have hired managers who believe in the philosophy and have carried on those ideas.

From Taylor

Taylor said: "At Swansea the whole club is set up in the same way as Barcelona. We have basically mimicked their way of doing things. The last three managers have had the same idea of how the game should be played and it is working.

I have read many articles that suggest lots of the praise for how the club has developed should be given to Roberto Martinez.

http://www.haugstadfootball.net/?p=425

Opr

KeithAFC

Yes. Average managers don't get their teams playing that brand of football which involves passing and retaining possession. Plus building a solid back 4 .

Laois_Man

Like Coyle when he was at Burnley, I think Rodgers will get snapped up by some more established or regular Premier League club. Someone like Villa who could sack McLeish by next Christmas, Everton who could lose Moyes, Bolton, blackburn if they survive etc. I can totally see him getting a job like that - maybe even as soon as this Summer. Altho I accept his star could dip if second season syndrome kicks in next season!

EdenHazard

It's all luck anyway, its whether he gets lucky and gets a job next where he can establish and grow his reputation further. Bad managers for me tend to be the ex pros who think they know it all, the likes of Mourinho, Wenger(did he play pro for a bit i dunno.) Rodgers and yes AVB definetly know the game inside out but wouldn't be as lucky when it comes to appointments as some big ex pro would be. Mourinho took it, AVB didn't.

JPA

I think it's too early to judge.
He inherited a good philosophy at Swansea and it has carried on but he had little success at his other clubs.

legendary.xix

Reading weren't built around one or two stars and played decent stuff in the Premier across the water a few years back. It didn't stop their slide in the second season. They should be safe this season, next season will be interesting to see if they can carry it on. The club itself has been building for this prior to Rodgers arrival, that is not to take away from what he has done.

kryogen

Rodgers inherited a team that knew how to play good football from Martinez, the philosophy worked very well for him too once he added a big of defensive solidity to it. As evidenced this season with the 10 pl clean sheets.

I think he will leave Swansea before the end of next season, the manner of that I don't know yet

Seaneh

Swansea have been developing, since Kenny Jacket was manager, a style of football that focused on retaining possession.

Jacket had players like Leon Britton, Daren Pratly, Ronerto Martinez, Alan Tate, Gary Monk, Lee Trundle, Andy Robinson, and others, he got them playing attractive possession based football and did a lot of positive stuff for the club.

Martinez devoloped from that, as did Paulo Sousa, Rodgers brought it even further and developed players like Jazz Richards, Joe Allen. Resigning Britton, Bringing in Williams, Taylor, Sinclear, Dyer, etc.


It's been a very gradual thing over a long time and I think Swansea will continue to progress.

Mikeyt086

Rogers does look a good manager alright but I would expect Paul Lambert to manage at the top. Just how classy he was as a player and got to experience different leagues, he is perfectly suited to top-tier management. Doing a brilliant job with, to be honest, some poor players at Norwich aside from the likes of Holt, Hoolihan, Pilkington.

dsmythy

You need at least two good seasons at the top league before even getting the consideration of your brilliance or otherwise. The 2nd season has to be better than the 1st for a start.

Orando Broom

a lot of the problem with managers often stems from the owners expectations. Rogers is so far successful at Swansea because everybody at the club in in sync with a philosophy.

At United Ferguson rules the roost, to an extent chairmen and owners have bowed and bent to his will. Like it or loathe it Ferguson is a results driven guy and as a result his philosophy is a philosophy the money men are happy to buy in to.

Chelsea's owner it seems is a buffoon who has no concept of the game of football, he sees Barcelona and cannot fathom why it can't be replicated. He has made no effort to actually replicate barca, only to demand that the team win like Barca.

football as a business is inherently stupid, when you see the same old tired dunces getting jobs, the same lazy, ineffectual players get big money contracts from desperate clubs needing a 'star' to bring them success. In many other business environments you would be only as good as your last job. There are no levels of accountability in the business and thus good managers can get shafted. I always recall Mike Walker's move to everton as the epitomy of the cautionary tale for managers. He was found out big time at a troubled club that needed real leadership.

mike65

Bump, 3-0 away win today. By all accounts Fulham were lucky to get nil.

the realpigiron

Swansea have been brilliant. Keeping the ball and keeping it simple is Rodgers' motto and it has worked a treat. The big test for Swansea will be their second season in the premier league.

corcaigh07

If there was any justice, liverpool would have lost to Swansea at home. Rodgers has been excellent but they have been blessed to have their last 3 managers play in a particular way. they have also replaced key players very well, Pratley and Jason Scotland were their best players in the Championship but players like Allen and Graham have been even better. Vorm also was a very shrewd purchase.

If Swansea can survive or match this season next season, then I think BR merits all the praise he can get. I think they can. However they will probably get relegated eventually, hard to survive when your resources and stadium are so small.

kevohmsford

Rodgers has done really well but should be judged next season. He has his team playing very well. The second season for a promoted club is always crucial.

dreamers75

he was given time to change the club and team. This time thing doesnt happen in the top 4.

yes he is the real deal, decent coach but moving to a big club without gaurantee of time is pointless.

Leiva

Rogers is very good no doubting that . but I will hold judgement on if he is one of the new generation of football managers for another season or so .

My caution stems from the fact that I seen Owen Coyle in a similar light but now have my doubts .

PHB

I like Rogers a lot. The big question is can he make the right purchases in the summer. If he shows some guile by getting in decent players from around Europe instead of the usual, let's buy an English lad who had one good season in the PL 4 years ago philosophy, he could do well.

St.Spodo

If he can implement his brand of football with continued success (3 or 4 years), I'd say he's the real deal. We've seen Owen Coyle play great football and he was linked with big jobs with Bolton at the start of last season, but they've since lost 24 from 28 games. We'll see how good Rodgers really is in the next few seasons.

Gringo180

Give him another year then judge him, I seem to remember Reading flying in there first season in the Prem Lge a few years back, and were playing some great ball...... The following season they were relegated.

Paully D

I notice Rodgers keeps banging on about the same thing in his post match interviews - ''had lots of possession, knocked it around well, played wonderfully'' etc.

I don't know why the media keep going on about having lots of possession as if it wins you football matches. Stoke are the best example of that I suppose as until recently they never had more possession in a Premier League game and have done very well.

Teams are starting to press them a lot higher up the pitch now and you can see it's making it a lot harder for them. I feel they're guilty of overdoing it a lot to be honest. They play some nice football but the majority of it is in their own half.

Other sides will take interest in their better players (Vorm, Sigurdsson will attract a lot of attention from clubs as he's only on loan, Spurs may want to keep Caulker next season as Gallas will probably be off, Sinclair and Graham will attract attention from established sides such as Stoke and Fulham) and they may struggle to keep hold of them.

I still think they're in for a huge, huge battle to stay up next season, especially when they could well have to compete with the likes of West Ham, Southampton and Reading for signings.

Rekop dog

Think Lambert has done an even better job with Norwich considering where they where when he took over. So shrewd with his team selections and game changing substitutions. Has played several different styles this season depending on opposition. Very impressive operator imo.

JPA

Paully D wrote: »

I notice Rodgers keeps banging on about the same thing in his post match interviews - ''had lots of possession, knocked it around well, played wonderfully'' etc.

I don't know why the media keep going on about having lots of possession as if it wins you football matches. Stoke are the best example of that I suppose as until recently they never had more possession in a Premier League game and have done very well.

Teams are starting to press them a lot higher up the pitch now and you can see it's making it a lot harder for them. I feel they're guilty of overdoing it a lot to be honest. They play some nice football but the majority of it is in their own half.

Other sides will take interest in their better players (Vorm, Sigurdsson will attract a lot of attention from clubs as he's only on loan, Spurs may want to keep Caulker next season as Gallas will probably be off, Sinclair and Graham will attract attention from established sides such as Stoke and Fulham) and they may struggle to keep hold of them.

I still think they're in for a huge, huge battle to stay up next season, especially when they could well have to compete with the likes of West Ham, Southampton and Reading for signings.

I don't really know how they can be criticised. Rodgers has comfortably kept them in the league with a championship standard squad. Yes, they might struggle more next season as teams will learn how to handle them.

But the media go on about possession etc because it is an attractive style of football and that is what people want to see.

plasmaguy

Next season will prove if he's the real deal or not. It just takes one bad run of results for managers like Rodgers to come under pressure.

I reckon he should take a bigger job if offered.

There are plenty of examples of the next big thing in management staying too long at the one club and their reputation suffering.

counterlock

Rekop dog wrote: »

Think Lambert has done an even better job with Norwich considering where they where when he took over. So shrewd with his team selections and game changing substitutions. Has played several different styles this season depending on opposition. Very impressive operator imo.

I agree with you on this. The system - if you can call it that, that Swansea use, has been there before Rodgers so he gets a lot of credit for it. Norwich are level with Swansea at the moment having been extremely unlucky against Newcastle, Wigan, Stoke and United over the past 4/5 weeks.

Its conceivable that Norwich will not lose any players at the end of the year, whereas Swansea are likely to lose two or three. They look better prepared for survival next year.

LuckyLloyd

Remember George Burley and Ipswich?

For me, what Lambert and Rodgers have achieved already should justify Championship clubs taking a flyer on them for quite some time to come. But next season will be a big litmus test as to their suitability for jobs further up the footballing ladder. Everything about next season is different. There is an automatic expectation to avoid the drop; you are no longer a surprise package that other clubs will expect an easy three points from; their scouts / coaching staff will have more information to draw on when preparing to play you; and you are now looking to buy a different class of player.

If Swansea are comfortably away from the dropzone this time next season and still playing with such swagger then bigger clubs should be taking note - and the same for Lambert obviously.

And even if that doesn't happen, and they are in the relegation mire for much of next year if doesn't mean that they are bad managers or have done a bad job. Their achievments to date speak for themselves.

astrofool

counterlock wrote: »

I agree with you on this. The system - if you can call it that, that Swansea use, has been there before Rodgers so he gets a lot of credit for it. Norwich are level with Swansea at the moment having been extremely unlucky against Newcastle, Wigan, Stoke and United over the past 4/5 weeks.

Its conceivable that Norwich will not lose any players at the end of the year, whereas Swansea are likely to lose two or three. They look better prepared for survival next year.

Norwich are a bigger club, and have been up before in the last few seasons, giving them time to establish themselves slowly, and spend a lot more money than Swansea have had.

Swansea started near the bottom of the league, and have worked their way up.

Pro. F

I think Rodgers should get a lot of credit for how he has Swansea playing. He's obviously been lucky to find himself at a very sensible club that have set themselves up for long term success and effective football. And he is building on the work that had already been started there. But it can't be denied that he has the team well organised and working extremely hard and that to me makes it look like he is doing more than merely carrying on with what Martinez and the others were doing before.

I don't think that even relegation next season would necessarily prove that he is any less of a manager than he looks right now. A lot of the future judgement of him should depend on what players they can keep and what budget they have in the summer. By the start of next season their squad could be completely gutted. It would be great if they could keep the squad together or at least manage to replace the players sold properly. Then Rodgers could be judged fairly.

It will be a tricky move for him if he ever moves to another club. The general distrust of ''pretty'' football in Britain means that he probably won't get as long as other managers would to prove himself. And on top of that, whatever club he ended up at would more than likely need a major overhaul before he could implement his style of football.

Paully D wrote: »

I notice Rodgers keeps banging on about the same thing in his post match interviews - ''had lots of possession, knocked it around well, played wonderfully'' etc.

I don't know why the media keep going on about having lots of possession as if it wins you football matches. Stoke are the best example of that I suppose as until recently they never had more possession in a Premier League game and have done very well.

Stoke have spent huge money in recent years. Comparing the money spent at Stoke and Swansea and their respective league positions is just more proof that possession football is more effective than traditional English fight-ball.

dsmythy

Pro. F wrote: »

Stoke have spent huge money in recent years. Comparing the money spent at Stoke and Swansea and their respective league positions is just more proof that possession football is more effective than traditional English fight-ball.

I wouldn't base it on one season. If Swansea can stay in the Premier League next season and still match Stoke in the league then maybe there could be truth in it.

Pro. F

dsmythy wrote: »

I wouldn't base it on one season. If Swansea can stay in the Premier League next season and still match Stoke in the league then maybe there could be truth in it.

I think if Swansea could do what you describe then it would be more definitive proof all right. But I would say that this season alone still lends a good bit of weight to the argument.

Beefy78

Swansea were on an upward curve playing this way before Brendan Rodgers and will be after he leaves. Kenny Jackett was the one who established the style of play and then Sousa took it forward.

I'm a big fan of how Swansea do things. Southend had a fair few tussles with them as we were both going through the bottom two divisions. They got a new ground and it really helped to kick them on from there.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Paully D wrote: »

I notice Rodgers keeps banging on about the same thing in his post match interviews - ''had lots of possession, knocked it around well, played wonderfully'' etc.

I don't know why the media keep going on about having lots of possession as if it wins you football matches. Stoke are the best example of that I suppose as until recently they never had more possession in a Premier League game and have done very well.

Teams are starting to press them a lot higher up the pitch now and you can see it's making it a lot harder for them. I feel they're guilty of overdoing it a lot to be honest. They play some nice football but the majority of it is in their own half.

Other sides will take interest in their better players (Vorm, Sigurdsson will attract a lot of attention from clubs as he's only on loan, Spurs may want to keep Caulker next season as Gallas will probably be off, Sinclair and Graham will attract attention from established sides such as Stoke and Fulham) and they may struggle to keep hold of them.

I still think they're in for a huge, huge battle to stay up next season, especially when they could well have to compete with the likes of West Ham, Southampton and Reading for signings.

Almost certainly, he's one of our best youth prospects. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go on to claim a starting place next season.

Hollister11

Paully D wrote: »

Nope, he's just flavour of the month. They'll struggle big time next season IMO.

You look at the teams who could come up from the Championship this year (West Ham, Southampton, for example) and they're going to make the PL much tougher next year.

There's loads of managers who have had a good season in the Premier League, get raved about and then fade off into the sunset.

Fair play they've had a great season, but knowing football these days they'll be struggling by Christmas and he'll get the sack.

To be honest I'll be amazed if Swansea are a PL club and Rodgers is a PL manager in 2 years time, such is the nature of the game.

I know it's an old thread but the difference 2 years makes!! Runners up in the PL.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Paully D wrote: »

To be honest I'll be amazed if Swansea are a PL club and Rodgers is a PL manager in 2 years time, such is the nature of the game.

Amazing.

Paully D

I certainly won't be refered to as a sage or similar any time soon :pac:

I was talking about it in a few threads towards the end of the season about how I had got Rodgers completely wrong. Looking back, I guess a lot of it stemmed from seeing plenty of managers enter the Premier League, do well at the beginning and then get the chop and fade away.

Certainly not anywhere near the first or last time I'll be miles off.

In fairness the majority had their doubts about whether he had the capabilities of running a big club.

Certainly proved me wrong so far.

glued

He's shown himself to be a good manager last season but that's one season. Next year if Liverpool finish 5th/6th then he's heading the other way again. The fact that he made that Liverpool side into title contenders would make me believe that he is a very talented manager.

My one concern for him is that he's not consolidating a Champions League spot with CL players. He seems to me shopping in the same player market that he would of any other season.

glued

glued wrote: »

He's shown himself to be a good manager last season but that's one season. Next year if Liverpool finish 5th/6th then he's heading the other way again. The fact that he made that Liverpool side into title contenders would make me believe that he is a very talented manager.

My one concern for him is that he's not consolidating a Champions League spot with CL players. He seems to me shopping in the same player market that he would of any other season.

The transfer window is only open 11 days so I'll reserve judgement on that for a while yet

K-9

glued wrote: »

He's shown himself to be a good manager last season but that's one season. Next year if Liverpool finish 5th/6th then he's heading the other way again. The fact that he made that Liverpool side into title contenders would make me believe that he is a very talented manager.

My one concern for him is that he's not consolidating a Champions League spot with CL players. He seems to me shopping in the same player market that he would of any other season.

Yeah, funny reading the thread with posters worrying about that difficult second season! Never got the chance at Swansea but made a pretty good go at it with Liverpool!

The worry would be his transfer record, whether himself or committee bought, Coutinho and Sturridge the only ones as undoubted successes. Mignolet (reports the club expected more development from him), Allen and maybe Sakho (not played that often) as reasonably good, the rest not that exciting at all.

Paully D

K-9 wrote: »

The worry would be his transfer record, whether himself or committee bought, Coutinho and Sturridge the only ones as undoubted successes. Mignolet (reports the club expected more development from him), Allen and maybe Sakho (not played that often) as reasonably good, the rest not that exciting at all.

That would certainly be the one question mark I'd still have over him. Howeverm with my record of comment of Rodgers I'm sure Liverpool fans will be safe in the knowledge that all of his signings from now on to prove to be a success! :pac:

I posted the below a few weeks ago when it was being discussed in the transfer thread:

......the jury is still out on some of his buys due to their age, though I don't think he has got a whole lot of value in terms of transfers to date.

According to Transfer League, since he has come to the club he has purchased the following:

Sakho - £18m
Allen - £15m
Sturridge - £12m
Borini - £10m
Mignolet - £10m
Coutinho - £8.5m
Aspas - £7m
Ilori - £7m
Alberto - £6.8m
Assaidi - £2.3m
Yesil - £1m
Ibe - £500,000
Toure - Free

~ £100m in two seasons.

In the undoubted success category I'd have - Sturridge, Coutinho, Toure (a more than good free signing), and I'd personally put Mignolet here too though I can understand why some might not.

In the "jury's still out" category I'd have - Sakho, Borini, Ilori, Assaidi, Ibe and Yesil. Sakho, Borini and Assaidi are good players (to different degrees) who have done well elsewhere, but their contribution to Liverpool as of yet is in question. I can't say I know anything about Ilori (other than that he barely played for Granada last year), Ibe (other than he played a bit for Birmingham) or Yesil (other than that he has been decimated by injury).

In the "miss" category I'd have - Allen (I'm sure some will disagree with me on that one), Aspas, Alberto, all (quite) expensive misses IMO.

That said, I don't think he's gotten a whole lot of value as of yet. Sturridge, Coutinho and Toure would be the only signings that I personally would point to at present and say "yeah, good signing at a good price." I have Mignolet in my success category but at £10m it's what I'd expect. Sakho may prove to be an excellent signing but at £18m it's the same, it's what I'd expect.

I think this will be a big transfer window coming up for him in terms of general perception about his ability in the transfer market. If Suarez goes there should be a hell of a lot of cash to play around with and the owners don't seem scared to let him have a crack with money.

This transfer window will be the acid test for him IMO. Plenty of money to spend and both being able and needing to attract lots of players due to the Champions League.

Muahahaha

rarnes1 wrote: »

In fairness the majority had their doubts about whether he had the capabilities of running a big club.

Certainly proved me wrong so far.

I wasn't jumping up and down with excitement when he was appointed Liverpool manager because I think most people recognised that the job was a step up for him and people were unsure if he could handle it.

Brendan Rodgers is perhaps the most exciting young manager in Europe right now. The players clearly love playing for him and his passion for the game is unquestioned.

He is still learning, although he is one of the most tactically astute managers in the league his inexperience at the top level showed this season when he sent the team raging out to beat Chelsea when a draw was all that was required. He'll have learnt from that lesson hopefully.

Next season is going to be very interesting for Rodgers. With Liverpool being back in the Champions League and United being out of it there is now a battle of the big 5 to secure the top four Champions League spots. In the scheme of things it is a battle of the youth and exuberance of Rodgers vs the old dogs of Pellegrini, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Wenger. Rodgers is very much a new kid on the block here but he'll still relish taking on managers who have far more top level experience than he does.

K-9

Paully D wrote: »

That would certainly be the one question mark I'd still have over him. Howeverm with my record of comment of Rodgers I'm sure Liverpool fans will be safe in the knowledge that all of his signings from now on to prove to be a success! :pac:

I posted the below a few weeks ago when it was being discussed in the transfer thread:

The overall picture is the club was mostly shopping in the £6-12 Million player category. Alberto and Illori are still too early to say, can't be written off yet, Aspas a bit of a punt, Mignolet fine, Sturridge and Coutinho spectacular successes and well Borini, you know as much about him as anybody else! For me he was extremely unlucky with injuries and could prove a decent squad option, personally I don't see much more.

If you can get 50% of your signings classed as decent to excellent, that's pretty good going, I'd say he's not far off that. It's too early to call Sakho and personally I think Allen will do well, again injuries were a factor.

The 2 loan signings were hit and miss, Sahin could be put down to Rodgers, Cissokho did ok.[/quote]

This transfer window will be the acid test for him IMO. Plenty of money to spend and both being able and needing to attract lots of players due to the Champions League.

Within the constraints of the club policy, albeit less so than previous seasons. This is where the cult of the manager comes in, he can only do so much. The club seemed to have went for Sanchez but what can you do? Also the overall transfer policy is going for potential or unpolished gems which is risky compared to the Chelseas and Citys of this world.

Time will tell, he's proved himself capable of the step up to a club with top 4 aspirations, showed he's an excellent coach, adaptive and creative with systems and the resources available to him, all characteristics of a quality manager. The test now is he can he step up to a whole other level, retain top 4 status after losing arguably one of the best players in the world.

For me, we could well be back to what was expected of him last season, a genuine top 4 challenge and rebuild from there. If he can deliver top 4 after losing Suarez he's a proven top, top manager! :cool: