Meath GAA discussion thread

Hammer Archer

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Like I said above, seems once we get one monkey off our backs we find a new one.

Did I read that Jack Regan is playing as a sweeper????

Looks like we'll now have to beat Down in Ballycran in order to make the final. Don't think we've ever beaten them there.

CrabRevolution

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Did I read that Jack Regan is playing as a sweeper????

Looks like we'll now have to beat Down in Ballycran in order to make the final. Don't think we've ever beaten them there.

The chronicle says Healy was playing as a sweeper. We mightn't have to beat Down. I'm assuming Donegal will lose every game, and Down will win all of theirs. If we beat Armagh (which we should, but who knows if we will) plus if Wicklow win their next 3 games. It'll have ourselves, Mayo and Wicklow on 6 points after 5 games. It'll go down to score difference for 2nd place.

Hopefully we rack up a huge score against Donegal.

paul0103

Jack Regan did play as a sweeper for most of the second half, played as a traditional half back for the first half (although I think he actually started corner back!)

Mayo had a huge breeze in the first half and put up 15 or so points, but Meath weren't at the races at all. Meath had 1-3 at half time. Some very bad decision making playing into the breeze, there were times when Meath had all their players in their own half, yet still attempted to clear long ball straight to several free Mayo players.

Second half carried on pretty much the same for Meath, I think the management have to take a small bit of the blame to though. Mayo moved their best forward, Feeney, to play sweeper, so while Meath had the huge wind he mopped up every long puck out and pass. Jack Regan was left sweeping in the Meath half back line, but was completely out of the game. With a wind like that surely we should have had our best forward playing in the forwards, and give Mayo's sweeper something to worry about. He eventually moved up with about 10 minutes to go, but Meath were running out of time by then.

Overall though a very bad performance from Meath, but Mayo were a lot better than I expected them to be, very sharp and their touch was very good. Keith Higgins was named to play centre forward, he didn't seem to be there at all though.

Hammer Archer

Team for Sunday.

Meath (FL Div 2 V Cavan): Paddy O'Rourke; Donal Keogan, Conor McGill, Mickey Burke; Brian Power, Padraic Harnan, Darragh Smyth; Harry Rooney, Donnacha Tobin; Sean Tobin, Cillian O'Sullivan, Graham Reilly; Eamon Wallace, Michael Newman, Donal Lenihan.

Tobin makes his first appearance of the season as yet another makeshift midfielder to partner Harry Rooney.

Green_Tae

That midfield looks just a little under-powered to me and it's difficult not to consider the difference a player like Menton or Dalton would make at wing-back. As things stand there's a lot resting on Harnan to establish himself as a top-class centre-back. I think he has what it takes but the half-back line is the launch-pad for so many counter-attacks at this level that it is essential we get real quality at 5 and 7 - that is, footballers who can attack. This is where James McEntee's absence may be felt.

Meath Centre Forward

That's probably close to the strongest team Meath will be able to put out this year. James McEntee (u21s) and Bryan McMahon (injured) seem to be the only two unavailable. I'd have McEntee ahead of Tobin and McMahon ahead of Lenihan.

I agree about midfield. It's very weak looking even with Micko taking a gamble on Tobin. Rooney is not improving fast enough. He struggles to stick with the pace of the game and does not make any use of possession. I'd have Tormey and Tobin midfied long term.

Harnan is having a good year so far. Probably the best player after Keogan. Let's hope he can keep on improving.

Green_Tae

Rooney's a hell of a fielder though.

Meath Centre Forward

Green Tae wrote: »

Rooney's a hell of a fielder though.

He is at times. He makes some spectacular catches. But I think his contribution outside of kick-outs is poor. I think he's a good trier. Maybe he'll prove me wrong eventually. He's probably best of what's available in the county at the moment.

mushykeogh

Im presuming the Armagh result suits us?

iDave

Another day of shame
Another big lead squandered.
What the hell is going on???

mattser

Pathetic

dixiefly

OMG that was horrendous.

How did Mick look at Donnacha Tobin in midfield and then at wing forward for 74 minutes? It was Tobin's first game of the year, he didnt even line out for his club last weekend and what does MOD do? Puts him straight in at midfield!! A fit Donnacha is a great footballer but he was directly responsible for a number of Cavan scores today.

MOD seems to have a liking for the nice light backs that go missing when the pressure is on. He must have brought on 4 wing back substitutes yet left off Douglas who showed a bit of metal in the O'Byrne Cup. If I was him I would go back to the hurlers at this stage, to be wing back option number 6 on that squad must be pretty galling.

Lenihan once again was scoreless though he did have a few nice touches but now is the time to try someone else and that's not James Battersby. I would bring Ruari O'Coillean and /or Daire Rowe straight in to the team for the Galway team.

Once again Keoghan was very god but we were opened up the middle time and time again and McGill does not seem the answer at full back.

Regarding Paddy o'Rourke's sending off I missed it as we were making our way out of the stand at that stage. It is of course unforgivable but it must be noted that he made several point blank saves during the game and, after Keoghan, was one of our better players.

tanko

iDave wrote: »

Another day of shame
Another big lead squandered.
What the hell is going on???

Is Mick o Dowd the Meath manager this year?

mushykeogh

mushykeogh wrote: »

Im presuming the Armagh result suits us?

Im presuming it doesn't matter a fiddlers pluck now!

Hammer Archer

5 teams on 1 win and 2 losses now. And we've played all but one of them. And we've only one home game remaining and that's against Tyrone. Not looking promising.
Depressingly unsurprised at the latest second half collapse. And once again MOD seems clueless as to how to stop a slide. Bringing on Battersby just beggars belief. Even worse was the constant high balls played into him and Lenehan when they're the two smallest players on the team.
Wallace and Keogan were the only two players to come out with any credit. Paddy would have too had he not been sent off yet again (is this his third red card in a Meath jersey?).

I can't remember a time where I was more apathetic about going to games. Not going to spend yet another Sunday travelling to an away game just to see another awful performance next week.

iDave

It's pretty bad that average teams like Westmeath, Laois and Cavan can not bother turning up for the first half against us and still get a result.

Meath Centre Forward

The reality is underage results in the last 7-8 years have indicated Meath would fall behind teams like Westmeath and Cavan. That's probably what's happening now at senior level.

The frustrating thing for me is there were some great moments in the first half, like Westmeath, where you would say to yourself, we look good.

It's such a pity the team is mentally flawed. I personally find it hard to be too harsh on Mick O'Dowd after games likethis. First of all they pre-date him. Coyle, O'Brien and Banty presided over similar calamities. Secondly I can't see what he is supposed to do. When Cavan got the goal, everyone bar Keogan and Harnan went into hiding. They did not want to take on the responsibility of having possession of the ball.. What can Micko do? He can't substitute them all. So many of the players are flawed, e.g. O'Rourke, Burke, Rooney, Reilly, Newman, Tobin, etc the usual suspects. None of them have any experience of winning anything at underage. They are still good players. They are the best of what's in the county. They show glimpes of what they can do like the first half. But they can produce second halves like today. It's in their heads now that they throw away leads.

dixiefly

Meath Centre Forward wrote: »

The reality is underage results in the last 7-8 years have indicated Meath would fall behind teams like Westmeath and Cavan. That's probably what's happening now at senior level.

The frustrating thing for me is there were some great moments in the first half, like Westmeath, where you would say to yourself, we look good.

It's such a pity the team is mentally flawed. I personally find it hard to be too harsh on Mick O'Dowd after games likethis. First of all they pre-date him. Coyle, O'Brien and Banty presided over similar calamities. Secondly I can't see what he is supposed to do. When Cavan got the goal, everyone bar Keogan and Harnan went into hiding. They did not want to take on the responsibility of having possession of the ball.. What can Micko do? He can't substitute them all. So many of the players are flawed, e.g. O'Rourke, Burke, Rooney, Reilly, Newman, Tobin, etc the usual suspects. None of them have any experience of winning anything at underage. They are still good players. They are the best of what's in the county. They show glimpes of what they can do like the first half. But they can produce second halves like today. It's in their heads now that they throw away leads.

I take your point but how can he defend watching Donnacha Tobin for 74 minutes considering the guy hasnt even played with the club or the county this year? no attempt to cover the full back line when our full back was being roasted? Our forwards were mostly ineffectual, then why not pull one off and put a defender right in front of the full back. I could see MOD on the sideline during the 2nd half, just standing there with his arms folded. He brought on 3 wing back subs yet Alan Douglas that has a bit of a physical presence was left sitting on the bench when this debacle was continuing.

I agree that the problems precede MOD but he made it clear that he believed he was on the right track when looking for an extra year. We cant just give up by concluding that we dont have the talent, we need a manager that will get the best out of the talent we have. We were never world beaters at underage level anyway.

Meath Centre Forward

I would argue that Micko is getting the best out of the talent, give or take, at least up until the end of the League last year. It's fallen apart for him since. To illustrate this, compare the number of Meath players in action in the QF's and SF's of the Sigerson Cup and compare with Cavan. Even the promising players which I would acknowledge Meath have are low on stock even in comparison with Cavan. To finish third in two consecutive Division Two's was a decent result.

Fair enough Alan Douglas should have been brought on. But O'Brien and Banty both looked at him and didn't want him. He was on an u21 team hammered by Westmeath in 2010. His very presence on the panel is a sign to me, that Micko have little or nothing to pick from. He's a good player for Trim and an excellent hurler but you would think at 27, his chance would have passed.

Hammer Archer

I can't understand how Douglas can't get a game. Even when two of our half backs got injured, he wasn't considered. Also don't know why he won't give Cian O'Brien a go in midfield given he's the only other recognised midfielder in the squad as far as I know. He's played in challenge matches so why not try him in a competitive game.

Another thing I noticed was that when we ran forward with the ball, all supporting players just seemed to run ahead of the player in possession meaning their markers were able to crowd around the man with the ball and dispossess him. When I played u13 we were told to spread out ahead of the player with the ball dragging your marker out of the way.

So incredibly depressing at the moment. Probably another loss to Dublin coming up with the U21s on Wednesday.

Green_Tae

iDave wrote: »

It's pretty bad that average teams like Westmeath, Laois and Cavan can not bother turning up for the first half against us and still get a result.

The county board have a lot to answer for here. We are not lacking in good footballers. We have been competitive at underage level despite what people claim. St. Pats continue to produce quality. Cavan and Fermanagh are not great teams. They certainly don't have better footballers than us.

CrabRevolution

Underage hasn't been great though. I know people love bringing up the 2012 minor team, but they still didn't win anything despite several attempts. The last Meath minor teams to win Leinster were 2006 and 2008. We got a large number of players from those teams e.g. Reilly, Newman, Tormey, O'Rourke, Carroll etc. But all of those players are now in their mid to late 20s and are unlikely to suddenly step up another level. If these lads (who have won at underage) haven't exactly led us to much success, how can we expect the lads coming after them to be an improvement?

The whole St. Pats success==Meath success is fallacy too. St. Pats won their first all Ireland in 2000, and in the next few years won 2 more all Irelands and 7 more Leinsters. If anything Meath have been getting worse since then. While I know some like to think of them as the football equivalent of St. Kierans in Kilkenny, they aren't.

I think the slight upturn we had under Coyle and O'Brien hid the fact we simply don't have a selection of top players anymore. We fell off the bike after the 2001 AI final and haven't really gotten back on since, the odd fantastic performance against Dublin, Mayo or Tyrone aside.

How was yesterday any different when we lost 1-16 to 0-07 to Cavan in 2003? Or losing to Tipp in 2010? Losing to Westmeath in 2008 for the first time in 40 years? Getting Hammered at home by Louth in 2012? People like to blame everything O'Dowd (not that he's faultless) but our problems go much deeper.

CrabRevolution

Just looking back at some old results, and have a question for anyone interested.

This applies to the league only.

What team did Meath beat in 1981 and 2006, but never beat in the 15 matches they played under Sean Boylan?

Hammer Archer

I think what's grating for most Meath fans isn't the loss in itself (we lost quite a few times to Cavan in the 2000s), but the complete capitulation in the second half which was almost a carbon copy of past year's Westmeath game. In the past, even when we weren't great, we still possessed the typical never say die attitude synonymous with Meath. It meant that no matter how far we were behind, we still thought there was a chance.

Now, it's the complete opposite. No matter how far we are ahead, every team knows there's a good chance of a capitulation from us to let them back into it. We saw it yesterday, against Westmeath, against Laois last season and (to an extent) against Kildare in 2014. You could see it in the players once Cavan got their goal. Their heads dropped and we were never going to win it after that. It's the mental fragility that really annoys me as I do believe we have a half decent panel of players. Better than we had in the mid 2000s anyway.

And was it Derry that Boylan never could beat?

CrabRevolution

Yup, Derry. 9 losses and 6 draws in their 15 league meetings.

The sole championship meeting went our way though.

rpurfield

Between a couple of things going on at home I didn't make it over yesterday and I'm glad I didn't. It's beyond a joke at this stage, there's not one game in the last four or so years where we kicked scores consistently for 70 minutes. To suffer a turnaround like that at home in a local derby is unforgivable though. We are miles behind in terms of what's come through over the last 15 or so years, but even at that you'd think we could find players that would at least have the pride in themselves not to go into hiding when things go tough.

At this stage I'd rather see a chunk of the money thrown away on the senior team year after year reinvested in full time coaches to get things kick started at underage.

Rock Lesnar

Iv'e been to all the games so far and i taught the fermanagh game could'nt be topped but sunday beat it comfortably.

I find myself saying the same things as i did last year, we pack the defense, try and break, but the forwards who drop back, are not quick enough to get up the field, at a couple of stages on sunday, i saw Donal Keoghan breaking from defense and was out pacing some of the forwards who had dropped back.

Iv'e never been a fan of mick o'dowd, i don't think his way of playing suits the players, and the players need blaming to, they should'nt need motivation from the sideline, when things are going against them, they give in to easily, i'll still go to the games but the way things are looking, this season is going to be a real struggle

Green_Tae

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Underage hasn't been great though. I know people love bringing up the 2012 minor team, but they still didn't win anything despite several attempts. The last Meath minor teams to win Leinster were 2006 and 2008. We got a large number of players from those teams e.g. Reilly, Newman, Tormey, O'Rourke, Carroll etc.

If the bulk of our team is made up of provinical winners from '06, '08 and '12's All-Ireland finalists then logic suggests that we should be performing far better.

I would endorse everything that's been said by the posters above. It's the manner of defeat that's so depressing. Four years now and no notable improvements. Ultimately the buck stops with the county board. I really think we have to look at a change come end of season.

Hibbeler

Do the U-21s have any chance of restoring some of the pride which the seniors have lost tonight?

Again I totally agree with the above sentiments. It's not the mere fact of losing to Cavan or Westmeath and a few other notable poor performances in the last few years but it is the manner of the defeats and how once the going gets tough our players seem to go into exile.

Now it is true that we currently do not have the players to compete fully with Dublin or challenge the latter stages of the championship in August, the blame for that lies in our negligence in developing youth players while other counties raced ahead.

But I think that it is clear that we have good enough players that we should not be collapsing against teams like Cavan or Westmeath, in fact we should be good enough that we should be comfortable in Div 2 and not in relegation trouble, whatever about anything else after that. The problem there is clearly that the management team either does not know or is unwilling to do what is necessary to get the best out of the players we have and getting them to compete for the all important 70mins.

I've nothing against MOD or the management team but they've had 3 and a bit years and we've seen little sign of improvement apart from the odd good performance. Certainly there has been no consistency to speak of. It is time for a change on this front imo.

rpurfield

Hibbeler wrote: »

I've nothing against MOD or the management team but they've had 3 and a bit years and we've seen little sign of improvement apart from the odd good performance. Certainly there has been no consistency to speak of. It is time for a change on this front imo.

Just on this, there is a real danger MOD is now going to leave us where he found us, in Division 3. That would leave him no option but to go at the end of the year if you ask me.