"no Irish " ad in Oz

Dudess

Xavi6 wrote: »

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

That's simply incorrect.

Ultimately it's not, he doesn't have to hire an Irish person if he doesn't want to.

Dudess wrote: »

Bit dismissive to call it internet outrage, and I presume your "Irish people are good at" whatever doesn't apply to you, even though you're also Irish.
It's a discussion forum, an incident of discrimination against Irish people is being discussed as is fitting with the medium. Irish people aren't unreasonable for finding this objectionable. And you've obviously missed the significant number of simpering "Oh yeah it's fine to discriminate against Irish people" comments - from Irish people.

What else is it then? As I said already, it's one bloke on the other side of the world. It's not going to be 'knock on the door' outrage is it?

And I never said I had a problem with it being discussed because that falls under the remit of what I said - Irish people are good at shouting from the rooftops about things that offend them. Case in point right here.

Are other nationalities not? Is there something wrong with it? Actually the self loathing inferiority complex rubbish seems more prevalent among Irish people than other nationalities.

And Irish people talking about "the Irish" as if they're the other, displays a staggering lack of basic self awareness.

BWatson, if someone put up a sign saying "No northern Ireland Protestants" I have my doubts you'd be upset at people spreading the word and making their anger known.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

Is that not a bit of a generalisation?

Not at all, Northern Ireland is in fact the most racist place on earth by the most reputable study I can find, which is why anytime these threads arise the nod squad shows up in force.

You delightful characters up there have made us all so proud.

Doc Ruby

Xavi6 wrote: »

Liveline's about to start, you sound like one of Joe's cronies so maybe give him a shout.

So I take it you support racism then?

steddyeddy

sunflower27 wrote: »

You have facts to back this up?

I'd be happy to read them.

Up until the 1970s the government in oz practiced the abduction of aboriginal children from their families to be raised as whites. Aborigines still face much racisim to this day. In 2008 the prime minister ken russel apologised for this in parliment. The abduction of aboriginal children was referred to as the stolen generation.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,998067,00.html

From time magazine:

When the welfare officers came to take three-year-old Archie Roach from his tin-lined house in Framlingham in southeastern Australia, they told his mother they were escorting him to a picnic. His aunt tried to scare them off with a gun, but it wasn't loaded. Institutionalized in a Melbourne orphanage, young Archie was told his family had died in a fire. His minders tried to force his hair straight, breaking comb teeth in his frizzy curls. It was a vain attempt by whites to make an Aboriginal child more like them. It didn't work, and the combs weren't the only casualties

Under a government policy that ran from 1910 to, unbelievably, 1971, as many as 1 in 10 of all Aboriginal children were removed from their families in an effort to "civilize" them by assimilation into white society. Their story of suffering, abuse, and lost identity--long Australia's dirty secret--is finally forcing itself out. It's an uncomfortable development for many Australians,

Oz has a lot to answer for.

Dudess

In fairness Doc, you're being pretty intolerant towards people from N.I.

Nesta99

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs095.snc4/36092_466934054324_576764324_6263427_5746207_n.jpg

Xavi6

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Xavi6 wrote: »

Liveline's about to start, you sound like one of Joe's cronies so maybe give him a shout.

So I take it you support racism then?

Not getting uptight about something doesn't mean you support it.

Even the not so bright should know that.

sunflower27

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Good thing I got a screenshot then.



His contact details are already posted north, south, east and west on the internet.

I shall be sending them and the screenshot of his advert to media outlets in both Ireland and in Australia - hopefully by shining a light on bottom feeding mouth breathers like this the next guy will think twice before going for it, and who knows, maybe cause that minority of Aussies who hold similar views to re-examine them and discover the greivous error of their ways.

Wow. This has really got to you, and I don't blame you - but it is one fool, remember. is it really worth the effort when there are so many other things that could benefit from your time and effort.

As said, one idiot makes a ridiculous comment, keep it in perspective.

Dudess

guitarzero wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

Learn what political correctness means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

Problem?

Political correctness is a system of tiptoe-ing around so you don't offend people. Not discriminating against people hardly falls under that description.
Your post I referred to is like a Stewart Lee piss-take.

ash23

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why would they hire an Irish person then sack them because they're Irish?

Here, have a rolleyes back for not thinking that analogy through - :rolleyes:

Why would they not hire an Irish person because they're Irish? Bigotry doesn't make sense so therefore might very well hire an Irish person and then fire them because of an intolerance they developed to Irish people.

I thought the analogy through but you didn't answer the question. Would you be as willing to shrug it off and say it was their call if it happened to you?

lucylu

angry kitten wrote: »

Damn it, the ad was removed when I looked a minute ago, ah well I'll just have to be morally outraged anyway. Personally I'd rather our hard drinking Gaa idiots were exported, less of them here then. I've noticed some of my neighbours offspring who are in their mid 20's taking off to Australia and America for a few months of getting wasted(Job hunting) then back home again to mommy and daddy to get pissed on the dole money at weekends.

our hard drinking Gaa idiots dont call their mothers Mommy

steddyeddy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not getting uptight about something doesn't mean you support it.

Even the not so bright should know that.

If more people in oz got uptight about it the country wouldnt be such a laughing stock when it cames to treatment of other races.

Doc Ruby

Dudess wrote: »

In fairness Doc, you're being pretty intolerant towards people from N.I.

Would you mind telling me how pointing out the facts is intolerant. If its intolerant to not tolerate racism then yes I suppose I'm intolerant. Most people would find that attitude tolerable.

sunflower27

I'm personally more inclined to think of the Irish people that have gone over there and secured fair and just employment than to focus on one idiot that is probably very much regretting his stupidity

Bad Panda

dlofnep wrote: »

He can't discriminate based on their nationality. Therefore, he is obliged by law to give an unbiased hearing to everyone regardless of their nationality.

What is the point in this? Who's to say he did or did not give an unbiased hearing? How can you prove he was biased if he simply refused to hire an Irish person based on (bad experiences?) because of their nationality??

What you're simply saying here really is - don't advertise your prejudice.

dlofnep

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not getting uptight about something doesn't mean you support it.

Even the not so bright should know that.

You supported his right (which doesn't actually exist) to discriminate if he desires, because it is his business. Therefore, you support prejudice.

starch4ser

In fairness, if i was running a business, the last people i'd employ would be Irish people.

ash23

starch4ser wrote: »

In fairness, if i was running a business, the last people i'd employ would be Irish people.

Good job all the multi-national companies based here don't share that view!!

sunflower27

steddyeddy wrote: »

Up until the 1970s the government in oz practiced the abduction of aboriginal children from their families to be raised as whites. Aborigines still face much racisim to this day. In 2008 the prime minister ken russel apologised for this in parliment. The abduction of aboriginal children was referred to as the stolen generation.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,998067,00.html

From time magazine:

Oz has a lot to answer for.

I am well aware of this, I studied in school. Are we going to persecute a country for the actions of its Government? I think looking at the state of many people living in Ireland at the moment, the Government here has plenty to answer for.

Are you aware that the rate of suicide in Ireland is the highest it has ever been in the history of the State?

m83

This is just one guy. He doesn't represent Australia as a whole. He's clearly been burnt by the preceding Irish lads. If anyone should get a flogging it's them, for giving us a bad name.

I worked in Oz for two years and found being Irish works in your favour.

This world has gone too PC. How lame. I'm off to get cover from the social media sh1tstorm that is to follow.

jc84

at least the man is being honest and not wasting anyone's time, if he doesn't want irish people then he doesn't want them, it's up to him who he employs, i don't see the big deal, there used to be signs like this up on building sites in the uk years ago if i'm not mistaken, and i've heard that it's the same in poland

Cee-Jay-Cee

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm sure there are more than enough local Aussies that do the exact same thing.

I dont honestly think so, having been to australia i dont think they do act the same way as some of the clowns we have here and who are now over there.

dlofnep wrote: »

It's no excuse to condemn an entire nationality of people, based on the actions of a few

Its one person expressing his views based on past experiences (probably) and i dont blame him. Its not like the entire country has come out together to condemn the irish although saying that, if the numbers of irish continuing to arrive in australia continues at the current rate that could well happen!

Doc Ruby

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not getting uptight about something doesn't mean you support it.

Even the not so bright should know that.

Can I get a yes or a no then.

steddyeddy

starch4ser wrote: »

In fairness, if i was running a business, the last people i'd employ would be Irish people.

I dont think I would discriminate on a person based on nationality or race. The first thing I would look at is their qaulifications for the job.

karma_

m83 wrote: »

This is just one guy. He doesn't represent Australia as a whole. He's clearly been burnt by the preceding Irish lads. If anyone should get a flogging it's them, for giving us a bad name.

I worked in Oz for two years and found being Irish works in your favour.

This world has gone too PC. How lame. I'm off to get cover from the social media sh1tstorm that is to follow.

Yeah, it's lame to oppose racism.

Fúck, this thread is depressing.

dlofnep

Bad Panda wrote: »

What is the point in this?

The point is to ensure that discrimination/prejudice is not permissible in employment selection. I thought that much was obvious.

Bad Panda wrote: »

Who's to say he did or did not give an unbiased hearing?

His sign stating 'NO IRISH' is a big indicator.

Bad Panda wrote: »

How can you prove he was biased if he simply refused to hire an Irish person based on (bad experiences?) because of their nationality??

I stated he was being discriminatory. He proved it himself when he wrote an advert for an employment opportunity, appending in capital letters that Irish need nor apply.

Christ, the hoops people are willing to jump through to try and justify discrimination. :rolleyes:

Bad Panda wrote: »

What you're simply saying here really is - don't advertise your prejudice.

No, what I'm saying here is don't foster discrimination at all.

Bad Panda

dlofnep wrote: »

The point is to ensure that discrimination/prejudice is not permissible in employment selection. I thought that much was obvious.



His sign stating 'NO IRISH' is a big indicator.



I stated he was being discriminatory. He proved it himself when he wrote an advert for an employment opportunity, appending in capital letters that Irish need nor apply.

Christ, the hoops people are willing to jump through to try and justify discrimination. :rolleyes:



No, what I'm saying here is don't foster discrimination at all.

Congratulations. You've completely failed to interpret the hypothetical context of my post based on your previous one.

steddyeddy

sunflower27 wrote: »

I am well aware of this, I studied in school. Are we going to persecute a country for the actions of its Government? I think looking at the state of many people living in Ireland at the moment, the Government here has plenty to answer for.

Are you aware that the rate of suicide in Ireland is the highest it has ever been in the history of the State?

Indeed they do and if you read through my previous posts I am the first to mention the Irish state's treatment of children.

Im not tarring the whole country but I was right in saying that government backed racisim existed in oz until the 1970s. According to a survey of native austrailians 3 out of 4 of them experience racisim in their daily lives.

UglyBolloxFace

To all of you who are defending his actions ('if he doesn't want to hire Irish then that's okay, he doesn't have to') I ask you this - would you feel the same if he said he didn't want to hire any black people?



Nope, didn't fucking think so.

dlofnep

I'm amused at the people who feel that it is beyond the pale to address discrimination in 2012. It's this apathy that allowed racism and bigotry to foster for centuries. Every single incident should be confronted. No exceptions. And I most certainly won't have my nationality prejudged before my skill-set and experience.

dlofnep

Bad Panda wrote: »

Congratulations. You've completely failed to interpret the hypothetical context of my post based on your previous one.

If you want people to interpret your posters in a way that is not obvious, then formulate them better.

KeithAFC

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Would you mind telling me how pointing out the facts is intolerant. If its intolerant to not tolerate racism then yes I suppose I'm intolerant. Most people would find that attitude tolerable.

You ever been to N.I? That poll seems a bit far fetched.

keithclancy

In fairness I've never seen any ADs for Ghost parties in Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFof-Xwdh2s

sunflower27

steddyeddy wrote: »

Indeed they do and if you read through my previous posts I am the first to mention the Irish state's treatment of children.

Im not tarring the whole country but I was right in saying that government backed racisim existed in oz until the 1970s. According to a survey of native austrailians 3 out of 4 of them experience racisim in their daily lives.

Thousands of Irish people have gone to Australia and secured work. We are talking about one guy here and this thread has progressed to treatment of Aboriginals - something I personally find deplorable.

Look back on any nation's history and you will see shocking and unfair statistics. Australia is no different, nor is Ireland. It happened and can't be changed, but it doesn't mean that most people agree and support the actions of their governments.

What this guy did was 100% wrong and I am not denying that - how could I?, but put it in perspective.

I am sure there have been similar incidents here (although possibly not brought to the attention of the media) and it obviously doesn't represent the thoughts of the majority of the Irish population.

It is unfortunate that racism exists in every country.

listermint

Xavi, i have to say im pretty shocked at your attitude of thinking that allowing this sort of intolerance is okay.

In fact im more than shocked, As an Australian born citizen i am sure you are fully aware of the intolerant attitude such as that displayed by the the owner of the original advert is in huge part contributory to the state of the aboriginal population in Australia today.

Having personally frequented various 'state sponsored' and national gallery exhibitions on both coasts of Australia in relation to the Aboriginal history both ancient and current / modern, it is with complete disdain that i view your attitude.

Its more than sickening to believe that someone can single out a whole nation /race of people and deride them publicy as has been done here by the original advert. And the fact that you think this is acceptable in modern society just because this plank pays tax bills and runs a business.

You should be ashamed to be a moderator of an australian forum with that attitude.


ITS NOT UNDERSTANDABLE

AND

ITS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

You ever been to N.I? That poll seems a bit far fetched.

Yeah I'll be taking the research over the anecdote there. And I have indeed been to NI, used to live there for a few years in fact. Nice place and nice people for the most part in my experience, shame it had to let itself down so badly.

I mean you do realise that being the most racist place on earth is a bad thing, right?

irishmover

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/advert-that-says-no-irish-need-apply-for-bricklayer-job-in-australia-sparks-outrage-3047010.html

Martin Walker

*NEWSFLASH*
Racism is worldwide!:rolleyes:

But seriously the amount of Irish in Perth now is becoming a joke.
Alot of them are letting us down a bucketful. Drunkin, anti-social scumbags.

By the way in Northen Ireland i dont think we are racist...... we just hate everyone.:P

steddyeddy

sunflower27 wrote: »

Thousands of Irish people have gone to Australia and secured work. We are talking about one guy here and this thread has progressed to treatment of Aboriginals - something I personally find deplorable.

Look back on any nation's history and you will see shocking and unfair statistics. Australia is no different, nor is Ireland. It happened and can't be changed, but it doesn't mean that most people agree and support the actions of their governments.

What this guy did was 100% wrong and I am not denying that - how could I?, but put it in perspective.

I am sure there have been similar incidents here (although possibly not brought to the attention of the media) and it obviously doesn't represent the thoughts of the majority of the Irish population.

It is unfortunate that racism exists in every country.

It does indeed my reference to the treatment of the aboriginal people was mentioned as that as is indicitive of the attitude which led to discrimination of those people.

Xavi's attitude also reminds me of the attitude which led to the mistreatment of those people. I dont think all of austrailia is racist but I think we need to cut down this attitude whenever and wherever we find it.

KeithAFC

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Yeah I'll be taking the research over the anecdote there. And I have indeed been to NI, used to live there for a few years in fact. Nice place and nice people for the most part in my experience, shame it had to let itself down so badly.

I mean you do realise that being the most racist place on earth is a bad thing, right?

Plenty of people give money to charities which involves Africa etc. I don't see this poll telling us that.

Xavi6

ash23 wrote: »

Why would they not hire an Irish person because they're Irish? Bigotry doesn't make sense so therefore might very well hire an Irish person and then fire them because of an intolerance they developed to Irish people.

I thought the analogy through but you didn't answer the question. Would you be as willing to shrug it off and say it was their call if it happened to you?

The analogy makes absolutely no sense. You would not be hired as a nationality then fired because of it.

dlofnep wrote: »

You supported his right (which doesn't actually exist) to discriminate if he desires, because it is his business. Therefore, you support prejudice.

I didn't support it, I said I understand why he did it for his business.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Can I get a yes or a no then.

It can't be put much clearer than "Not getting uptight about something doesn't mean you support it" but I'll give you three options which might help you further -

1. No I'm not a supporter of racism; I understand, having lived here for so long, why someone would say 'No Irish' however.

2. Yes I'm a massive racist and I recently started supporting Liverpool.

3. I'm trolling because it's 10 o'clock at night and I've nothing better to do.

listermint wrote: »

Xavi, i have to say im pretty shocked at your attitude of thinking that allowing this sort of intolerance is okay.

In fact im more than shocked, As an Australian born citizen i am sure you are fully aware of the intolerant attitude such as that displayed by the the owner of the original advert is in huge part contributory to the state of the aboriginal population in Australia today.

Having personally frequented various 'state sponsored' and national gallery exhibitions on both coasts of Australia in relation to the Aboriginal history both ancient and current / modern, it is with complete disdain that i view your attitude.

Its more than sickening to believe that someone can single out a whole nation /race of people and deride them publicy as has been done here by the original advert. And the fact that you think this is acceptable in modern society just because this plank pays tax bills and runs a business.

You should be ashamed to be a moderator of an australian forum with that attitude.


ITS NOT UNDERSTANDABLE

AND

ITS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Your outrage is admirable. However, I've not supported his actions. I said I can understand why he would do it based on the possibility of negative experiences.

If you and others can't see the fundamental difference then that's your problem.

Come say hi in the Aussie Rules forum sometime, we welcome everyone.

Doc Ruby

irishmover wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/advert-that-says-no-irish-need-apply-for-bricklayer-job-in-australia-sparks-outrage-3047010.html

Hey, that's one email saved. And they even took their own screenshot too.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Plenty of people give money to charities which involves Africa etc. I don't see this poll telling us that.

Okay Keith, maybe you can organise your own reviewed research and surprise us all. Until such time you and your buddies are doing themselves no favours by coming into threads like these defending open racism. Alright?

sunflower27

steddyeddy wrote: »

It does indeed my reference to the treatment of the aboriginal people was mentioned as that as is indicitive of the attitude which led to discrimination of those people.

Xavi's attitude also reminds me of the attitude which led to the mistreatment of those people. I dont think all of austrailia is racist but I think we need to cut down this attitude whenever and wherever we find it.

The fact this story is making international news highlights how far the world has moved on. People are rightly outraged.

It was one guy though - and plenty of Irish people have emigrated to Australia and been welcomed. I don't recall a similar story like this in Australia in recent times at all. It is far from commonplace and I think that needs to be highlighted as well.

Again, perspective.

Doc Ruby

Xavi6 wrote: »

1. No I'm not a support of racism; I understand, having lived here for so long, why someone would say 'No Irish'.

2. Yes I'm a massive racist and I recently started supporting Liverpool.

3. I'm trolling because it's 10 o'clock at night and I've nothing better to do.

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer out of you. You came into the thread to defend a racist, now you won't say clearly whether or not you support racism.

That would raise anyone's eyebrow my friend.

listermint

Xavi6 wrote: »

Your outrage is admirable. However, I've not supported his actions or anything of a racist nature. I said I can understand why he would do it based on the possibility of negative experiences.

If you and others can't see the fundamental difference then that's your problem.

Come say hi in the Aussie Rules forum sometime, we welcome everyone.

And here is the fundamental problem, You should never be able to 'understand' why someone would single out an entire nation for ridicule.

Its not acceptable Xavi today or ever, its just not. Understanding his attitude is par of the course for wider acceptance of it. Which is the reason why there is laws in place that make this sort of public declaration illegal in the first place.

This lads attitude needs to be stamped out totally from the get go. not 'understood' as you put it. And backing up the 'understanding' with examples is worse.

I suggest you stop while you arent ahead.

Doc Ruby

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer out of you. You came into the thread to defend a racist, now you won't say clearly whether or not you support racism.

That would raise anyone's eyebrow my friend.

Originally Posted by Xavi6
1. No I'm not a support of racism; I understand, having lived here for so long, why someone would say 'No Irish'.

2. Yes I'm a massive racist and I recently started supporting Liverpool.

3. I'm trolling because it's 10 o'clock at night and I've nothing better to do.

?

listermint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Ruby
Why is it so hard to get a straight answer out of you. You came into the thread to defend a racist, now you won't say clearly whether or not you support racism.

That would raise anyone's eyebrow my friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavi6
1. No I'm not a support of racism; I understand, having lived here for so long, why someone would say 'No Irish'.

2. Yes I'm a massive racist and I recently started supporting Liverpool.

3. I'm trolling because it's 10 o'clock at night and I've nothing better to do.
?

conflict in terms!!!

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

conflict in terms!!!

What? No it isnt. Understanding something doesn't mean you agree with it.

Xavi6

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer out of you. You came into the thread to defend a racist, now you won't say clearly whether or not you support racism.

That would raise anyone's eyebrow my friend.

Look, I gave you a straight answer twice - understanding does not mean supporting.

listermint wrote: »

And here is the fundamental problem, You should never be able to 'understand' why someone would single out an entire nation for ridicule.

Its not acceptable Xavi today or ever, its just not. Understanding his attitude is par of the course for wider acceptance of it. Which is the reason why there is laws in place that make this sort of public declaration illegal in the first place.

This lads attitude needs to be stamped out totally from the get go. not 'understood' as you put it. And backing up the 'understanding' with examples is worse.

I suggest you stop while you arent ahead.

I can understand abortion, doesn't mean I support it. I can understand why this guy would say 'No Irish' if he's had bad experiences.

It's basic human rationale to dismiss things you've had a bad experience with, whether it's people, products or services.

Putting yourself in someone else's shoes for a second to understand them is a far more open minded attitude then getting out the pitch forks asap.

listermint

runawaybishop wrote: »

What? No it isnt. Understanding something doesn't mean you agree with it.

He is making excuses for it. Actual excuses for it.

Its tantamount to accepting it as a reasonable attitude..

Your move.