"no Irish " ad in Oz

Funglegunk

listermint wrote: »

Okay

So let me see , you can 'empathise' as in you personally believe that this guy has a valid arguement that Irish people are a pack of wasters.

Is that empathy?

Are sure if thats the case i can empathise with everyone who believes ALL australians are racists :rolleyes:

I think you're confusing empathy with sympathy.

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

Okay

So let me see , you can 'empathise' as in you personally believe that this guy has a valid arguement that Irish people are a pack of wasters.

Is that empathy?

Are sure if thats the case i can empathise with everyone who believes ALL australians are racists :rolleyes:

No, that is not what empathy means. Let me help you:

"the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another"

It does not mean "the understanding and immediate and unlimited agreements of another persons feelings or ideas"

Your entire premise is flawed. You need to stand back and reassess what it is you are trying to state.

UglyBolloxFace

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah, taking parts of a quote in isolation. Bravo.



I didn't address it because you seemed to have already answered it for everyone.

If he doesn't want to hire black people then he doesn't have to. If he doesn't want to hire gingers he doesn't have to. If he doesn't want to hire people born after 1990 he doesn't have to.

It's not necessarily right (and I've yet to say that what that guy did was 'right' btw), but if HE has HIS reasons then that's just how it is.

So have you caught me out or what?

There's a thing called the Law...it's there for a reason. To stop employers acting the prick, and people like you defending stuff like this.

listermint

Xavi6 wrote: »

As a wise man said just a few posts ago, "You are equating empathy with agreement. That is clearly flawed and a terrible argument". Can you not see the difference? Seriously?



You're right I wouldn't be impressed, but the idea is still the same - it's their business. What are you going to do? Kick up such a fuss that they change their mind? And even if they did would you want them to?



I'm not an After Hours moderator, I have no obligation to post here as a moderator in any capacity.

I'm also not going to bow to the masses because of some little title under my avatar on the internet. I have an opinion and I've given it. There are a few people here that have been able to comprehend what I'm saying, while others have effectively labelled me a racist (amusing really), guess that's the beauty of these discussion forums.

I haven't labelled you a racist on the contrary im taking your posts on face value.

I am however wondering if you think this guys ad was

- Acceptable
- Understandable
- Reasonable
- Racism

enlighten me.

Also enlighten me as to why Australia has in legislation made such advertisement illegal and the reasons behind this. (im sure you comprehend that)

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

I haven't labelled you a racist on the contrary im taking your posts on face value.

I am however wondering if you think this guys ad was

- Acceptable
- Understandable
- Reasonable
- Racism

enlighten me.

Also enlighten me as to why Australia has in legislation made such advertisement illegal and the reasons behind this. (im sure you comprehend that)

If you had read previous posts you would see this was already answered.

sunflower27

ash23 wrote: »

There are a few who think that it was reasonable enough. That's accepting it. I didn't say everyone was nor did I say it was going to result in a mass exile of Irish from Australia. That was your own exaggeration.

I'm merely saying the bloke was wrong to say it and has no right to discriminate based on nationality, whatever his experience with Irish employees prior to this. It shouldn't ever be acceptable to do it and particularly to be so stupidly blatant about it. Of course people should speak up against it.

Of course he was wrong and my exaggeration was to show how out of hand this is all becoming over ONE advert.

With all the talk of 'stamping this out' I have to ask do people really think his attitude is going to catch on?

One man made a stupid and ignorant mistake. ONE MAN.

Have Travellers not been treated the same here on home soil? Have they not been a discriminated minority group for decades?

Doc Ruby

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah, taking parts of a quote in isolation. Bravo.

You can add them back in if you like, it won't change the meaning. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Xavi6 wrote: »

What are you going to do? Kick up such a fuss that they change their mind? And even if they did would you want them to?

Yes and yes. I'm literally sitting here with my mouth open reading some of this stuff. What century did you people arrive from, I cannot believe attitudes like this still exist.

Doc Ruby

sunflower27 wrote: »

One man made a stupid and ignorant mistake. ONE MAN.

You really think this kind of thing happens in isolation, when we have xavi6 coming out with statements like he has.

ash23

sunflower27 wrote: »

Have Travellers not been treated the same here on home soil? Have they not been a discriminated minority group for decades?

Yes and I disagree with that too. However you might see a "private party" sign on a door of a pub, but you won't see "no travellers" sign.
Plus, you don't have to put things like nationality or ethnicity on a CV for those very reasons. Employers can't ask you about marital status or children etc.

Those things have all been put in place to prevent what that man did. And with good reason.

listermint

runawaybishop wrote: »

No, that is not what empathy means. Let me help you:

"the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another"

It does not mean "the understanding and immediate and unlimited agreements of another persons feelings or ideas"

Your entire premise is flawed. You need to stand back and reassess what it is you are trying to state.

Youve pointed it out yourself. Surely you can see that it makes no sense for an intellectual person to identify with racism. I honestly cant see how you can indentify that its okay to have a racist attitude towards an entire nation.

I have travelled extensively and met all sort of idiots / ars&**les and wa&&ers. I would never (as an intellectual) mark the regions these people came from with such a global tar brush. Its just doesnt make sense.

And no im not confusin empathy with sympathy. :rolleyes:

and another one :rolleyes:

runawaybishop

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'm literally sitting here with my mouth open

Selective quoting of peoples posts to produce a desired effect is childish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouth_breathing

Xavi6

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

There's a thing called the Law...it's there for a reason. To stop employers acting the prick, and people like you defending stuff like this.

*sigh*

The law doesn't have the final say in who he hires, only with regard to getting 'a fair go'. He still doesn't have to hire Irish people if he doesn't want to, that's all I said.

And again, it's not defending him (back to the 'I never said he was right' bit from the previous post, did you miss that?) to say you get why he would do what he did.

Call Me Jimmy

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

keithclancy

Xavi6 wrote: »

I didn't address it because you seemed to have already answered it for everyone with your last line.

If he doesn't want to hire black people then he doesn't have to. If he doesn't want to hire gingers he doesn't have to. If he doesn't want to hire people born after 1990 he doesn't have to.

It's not necessarily right (and I've yet to say that what that guy did was 'right' btw), but if HE has HIS reasons then that's just how it is.

So have you caught me out or what?

No, that bold bit, would make him 100% wrong. ^^ Thats Racism.


I live in the Netherlands,

If someone doesn't hire me becuase I'm Irish then thats wrong.
If someone doesn't hire me becuase I do not speak Dutch then thats fine.

Whatever the person thinks in their own head would never be known, but if they write "NO IRISH" on a Job Advert its wrong, this sort of sh*t breeds more Racism.

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

Youve pointed it out yourself. Surely you can see that it makes no sense for an intellectual person to identify with racism. I honestly cant see how you can indentify that its okay to have a racist attitude towards an entire nation.

I have travelled extensively and met all sort of idiots / ars&**les and wa&&ers. I would never (as an intellectual) mark the regions these people came from with such a global tar brush. Its just doesnt make sense.

And no im not confusin empathy with sympathy. :rolleyes:

and another one :rolleyes:

You can identify without agreeing. Understanding something on an intellectual level in no way means you condone or support it. This is a very basic concept and is a key to how society functions.

listermint

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Not really.

Xavi has yet to condemn this mans action. just continues to list reasons why he understands it.

So he doesnt condemn it or he does?

Xavi6

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You can add them back in if you like, it won't change the meaning. You should be ashamed of yourself.


Yes and yes. I'm literally sitting here with my mouth open reading some of this stuff. What century did you people arrive from, I cannot believe attitudes like this still exist.

You're getting awfully worked up, maybe step away from the keyboard for a few.

listermint

runawaybishop wrote: »

You can identify without agreeing. Understanding something on an intellectual level in no way means you condone or support it. This is a very basic concept and is a key to how society functions.

Basic society functions on understanding. The understanding that the reasoning behind this mans ad was wrong. We can all comprehend why this tool wrote the ad. No one needs an explanation. But understanding it and not saying his attitude is wrong a poles apart.

Poles apart.

sunflower27

ash23 wrote: »

Yes and I disagree with that too. However you might see a "private party" sign on a door of a pub, but you won't see "no travellers" sign.
Plus, you don't have to put things like nationality or ethnicity on a CV for those very reasons. Employers can't ask you about marital status or children etc.

Those things have all been put in place to prevent what that man did. And with good reason.

And the advert is down. Is it not?

And surely there has never been an example of similar by one ignorant Irish fool either.

Maybe I am wrong, but I have been here 12 years and am fairly certain I have seen stories on the news of compensation pay-outs for discrimination. Unless of course I dreamed it

irishmover

keithclancy wrote: »

No, that bold bit, would make him 100% wrong. ^^ Thats Racism.


I live in the Netherlands,

If someone doesn't hire me becuase I'm Irish then thats wrong.
If someone doesn't hire me becuase I do not speak Dutch then thats fine.

Whatever the person thinks in their own head would never be known, but if they write "NO IRISH" on a Job Advert its wrong, this sort of sh*t breeds more Racism.

It's wrong, very wrong indeed. You'll find though that there are quite a few employers who dont employ for the same reason as the guy who posted his ad. They just don't advertise it like this guy did.

Do you think every company you apply for doesn't get back to you because you don't have the experience? Or aren't exactly what their after? Racism is unfortunately still common, not just in Australia or Ireland but everywhere. Problem is most of these employers just aren't detectable like this guy.

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

Basic society functions on understanding. The understanding that the reasoning behind this mans ad was wrong. We can all comprehend why this tool wrote the ad. No one needs an explanation. But understanding it and not saying his attitude is wrong a poles apart.

Poles apart.

There is no need to bring nationalities into this even more.

Anyway - you still fail to comprehend and equate understanding to agreement.

Doc Ruby

runawaybishop wrote: »

Selective quoting of peoples posts to produce a desired effect is childish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouth_breathing

What I quoted was only a couple of posts up. Feel free to raise your eyes a few degrees to behold it in all its glory.

Xavi6

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is no need to bring nationalities into this even more.

Anyway - you still fail to comprehend and equate understanding to agreement.

I think you're fighting a losing battle on that one at this stage, even though you're spot on.

listermint

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is no need to bring nationalities into this even more.

Anyway - you still fail to comprehend and equate understanding to agreement.

No im still failing to see any condemnation by any of the posters who are out here explaining this mans actions.


Explain away, but your lack of condemnation is beginning to speak volumes about agreement of....

You either agree with him or you dont its not that hard of a question. Explaining why this man wrote the ad is coming down heavily on agreement.

So what is it ???

Have any of the posters said the condemn it?

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

No im still failing to see any condemnation by any of the posters who are out here explaining this mans actions.


Explain away, but your lack of condemnation is beginning to speak volumes about agreement of....

You either agree with him or you dont its not that hard of a question. Explaining why this man wrote the ad is coming down heavily on agreement.

So what is it ???

Have any of the posters said the condemn it?

I completely understand why he said what he did.

I condemn racism.

Did i just blow your mind?

ash23

Why is the ad down?
Because the bloke saw the error of his ways? Not likely!!
It's down because people complained about it. And rightly so.
If nothing had been said it'd still be there.

Doc Ruby

Xavi6 wrote: »

You're getting awfully worked up, maybe step away from the keyboard for a few.

Oh are you an AH mod now after all? Anyway I'm more astonished than anything else thus far, maybe I just keep better company than some. Laddie attitudes like yours are going to have to change, they don't belong in the modern world.

listermint

runawaybishop wrote: »

I completely understand why he said what he did.

I condemn racism.

Did i just blow your mind?

You condemn racism

But yet your not condemning this mans ad directly?

Do you not believe this ad to be racist?

Mind blowing pending....

irishmover

ash23 wrote: »

Why is the ad down?
Because the bloke saw the error of his ways? Not likely!!
It's down because people complained about it. And rightly so.
If nothing had been said it'd still be there.

Well no, most likely a Gumtree moderator took it down as it was a breach of their rules and regulations relating to discrimination.

Solair

Aussi backpackers invade London (in particular) every year an can be some of the heaviest-drinking, loudest, most annoying people you ever met.

Fair enough if you don't want backpackers, but it's not just a single nationality. It's just an age group / people on a particular type of holiday that tend to be a bit wild.

ash23

irishmover wrote: »

Well no, most likely a Gumtree moderator took it down as it was a breach of their rules and regulations relating to discrimination.

Because people complained and drew attention to it........
Doubt gumtree mods trawl through every ad. They rely (as on other internet sites) for people to hit "report".

homerjay2005

Its his business. he should be allowed to apply who he wants, i wish business in ireland would adapt this approach where necessary, sadly though, perhaps some of them also would have "no irish" signs up.

if the people who worked with him in the past acted the c*nt, its them who have given the irish a bad name, not him.

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

You condemn racism

But yet your not condemning this mans ad directly?

Do you not believe this ad to be racist?

Mind blowing pending....

That ad is racist and i condemn it. I also understand it. Do you even have an argument you can put down without making unfounded statments?

listermint

irishmover wrote: »

Well no, most likely a Gumtree moderator took it down as it was a breach of their rules and regulations relating to discrimination.

Doubt it if he was contacted by multiple media organisations.

Xavi6

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Oh are you an AH mod now after all? Anyway I'm more astonished than anything else thus far, maybe I just keep better company than some. Laddie attitudes like yours are going to have to change, they don't belong in the modern world.

Report me for backseat modding if you like but I was merely offering some friendly advice to prove I'm not such a bad guy afterall

I'm sure what a 'laddie attitude' is though, sorry

runawaybishop wrote: »

I completely understand why he said what he did.

I condemn racism.

Did i just blow your mind?

+1, just so folk have the clarity and condemnation they've been craving.

listermint

runawaybishop wrote: »

That ad is racist and i condemn it. I also understand it. Do you even have an argument you can put down without making unfounded statments?

No i was just waiting on condemnation, I have it now. But its still pending from Xavi which is why ill continued to be perplexed by reasoning and 'understanding'.


And far from keyboard warrior 'sh**e' that gets passed around here when someone has nothing else to say, Il stamp down on racism where ever i see it.


And i wont change my attitude for nobody.


condemnation still pending....

Doc Ruby

ash23 wrote: »

Because people complained and drew attention to it........
Doubt gumtree mods trawl through every ad. They rely (as on other internet sites) for people to hit "report".

Yeah I reported it immediately after seeing it, it was down shortly afterwards. No doubt many others did the same.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Report me for backseat modding if you like but I was merely offering some friendly advice to prove I'm not such a bad guy afterall

Yes racists aren't baby eating monsters spewing fire from their eyes. You aren't coming across at all well in this thread though, and I feel your attitude towards Irish people could do with some improvement.

listermint

Xavi6 wrote: »

+1, just so folk have the clarity and condemnation they've been craving.

Was that so hard?

or was it just trolling all the way through, your first post could have condemned it and explained it and everyone could have taken you at face value. But i suspect that is not what you were looking for all along.

I commend you on your condemnation of obvious racism

sunflower27

irishmover wrote: »

Well no, most likely a Gumtree moderator took it down as it was a breach of their rules and regulations relating to discrimination.

I'd say so. Gumtree is massive and ads would go up before they can be reviewed.

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

Was that so hard?

or was it just trolling all the way through, your first post could have condemned it and explained it and everyone could have taken you at face value. But i suspect that is not what you were looking for all along.

I commend you on your condemnation of obvious racism

The condemnation of racism wasn't the point he was trying to make though - you just jumped on his back because he didn't state it initially.

Doc Ruby

runawaybishop wrote: »

I completely understand why he said what he did.

Do you understand it because you've lived there so long or because you associate Irish people with a pack of wasters?

Xavi6

listermint wrote: »

Il stamp down on racism where ever i see it.

And like a Bat Signal in the night sky, the next thread appears.

listermint wrote: »

Was that so hard?

or was it just trolling all the way through, your first post could have condemned it and explained it and everyone could have taken you at face value. But i suspect that is not what you were looking for all along.

I commend you on your condemnation of obvious racism

I don't see why an open and outright condemnation is required to post on the situation. Truth be told I'm not fussed about the whole thing because, as has been pointed out already, it's one guy in a pretty big area.

The fact that he lives in an area of Perth more commonly known here as 'Little Britain' shows that he must have some tolerance for Irish/UK types so for me it was not something to get worked up over like some folk have.

Still bemusing that so many people can't see the difference between understanding someone's reasons and supporting them though.

listermint

runawaybishop wrote: »

The condemnation of racism wasn't the point he was trying to make though - you just jumped on his back because he didn't state it initially.

And so i should. I dont believe racism should be explained away without stating your cause straight off the bat.

Ill jump down any perceived racists throat, its not on, its not acceptable.

Put your cards on the table from the start, I do.

ash23

Xavi6 wrote: »

And like a Bat Signal in the night sky, the next thread appears.



I don't see why an open and outright condemnation is required to post on the situation. Truth be told I'm not fussed about the whole thing because, as has been pointed out already, it's one guy in a pretty big area.

The fact that he lives in an area of Perth more commonly known here as 'Little Britain' shows that he must have some tolerance for Irish/UK types so for me it was not something to get worked up over like some folk have.

Still bemusing that so many people can't see the difference between understanding someone's reasons and supporting them though.

If you're not fussed that's fine. But why do you care (and patronise) other people who are fussed about discrimination?

Xavi6

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Do you understand it because you've lived there so long or because you associate Irish people with a pack of wasters?

Bloody hell, I really hit a nerve with you :eek:

runawaybishop

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Do you understand it because you've lived there so long or because you associate Irish people with a pack of wasters?

Please don't try to put words in my mouth. If you would like to make a strawman you will need to try a lot harder.

Experience is not always a necessity for understanding, though it can obviously facilitate greater recognition.

Tell you what, why don't you state your issue in one sentence. Maybe that way we can drag this topic back to some sort of coherence.

runawaybishop

listermint wrote: »

And so i should. I dont believe racism should be explained away without stating your cause straight off the bat.

Ill jump down any perceived racists throat, its not on, its not acceptable.

Put your cards on the table from the start, I do.

I cant believe you don't condemn the testing of bleach on babies.

See what i did there?

Doc Ruby

Xavi6 wrote: »

Bloody hell, I really hit a nerve with you :eek:

If by hitting a nerve you mean made a bunch of racist comments and thought it was business as usual, I guess.

runawaybishop wrote: »

Please don't try to put words in my mouth. If you would like to make a strawman you will need to try a lot harder.

Maybe you can put words in your own mouth and tell us all why you find it understandable.

Xavi6

ash23 wrote: »

If you're not fussed that's fine. But why do you care (and patronise) other people who are fussed about discrimination?

Because it's a discussion forum and only one side of the argument was being put out, along with pitch forks and blazing torches.

I draw the line at posting someone's private details on an internet forum to cause trouble for them (which is what the lovely Doc Ruby did btw) so I said as much and it spiralled from there.

runawaybishop

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Maybe you can put words in your own mouth and tell us all why you find it understandable.

No thanks. I'm not interested in explaining myself to you. You, however, are calling others out so it is beholden to you to defend your statements.

So, in light of the fact that no one is claiming racism is ok and the ad has been condemned as requested - What is your issue with saying that understanding can be applied to it?