Lolek Ltd, Trading as 'The Iona Institute'

SebBerkovich

Corkfeen wrote: »

Erm I found Dawkins debating Quinn.... He makes great efforts to sound like an intellectual and attempts to education Dawkins on evolution. :rolleyes: He then rambles on about an objective morality and gets very protective of free will. Still listening.
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/science/quinndawkins2.MP3

How is Dawkins not exhausted with having to go through the same rational argument again and again for people that don't believe their position can be rationalised.

It's certainly impressive that he hasn't gone crazy after doing so many of these interviews.

Corkfeen

SebBerkovich wrote: »

How is Dawkins not exhausted with having to go through the same rational argument again and again for people that don't believe their position can be rationalised.

It's certainly impressive that he hasn't gone crazy after doing so many of these interviews.

It's from when God Delusion came out.Should have mentioned that.

Brian Shanahan

SebBerkovich wrote: »

How is Dawkins not exhausted with having to go through the same rational argument

Shouldn't that be irrational?

I don't usually post to correct typos, but when they inadvertently change the meaning of a post, I think its a good idea.

Turtwig

Why is there matter?

WHY MATTER?


Why MATTTERR?

Seriously theists obsession with this something/nothing stuff is really saddening.

Obliq

Turtwig wrote: »

Why MATTTERR?

Seriously theists obsession with this something/nothing stuff is really saddening.

I dunno....do you not ask yourself the same thing?! They picked a doozy of an unanswerable question like...

robindch

Turtwig wrote: »

Seriously theists obsession with this something/nothing stuff is really saddening

At this point, it's one of the last gaps for their increasingly small and irrelevant god.

Obliq

robindch wrote: »

At this point, it's one of the last gaps for their increasingly small and irrelevant god.

Exactly. Only one place left for a deity to hide, and that's in the answer to the most remote and long ago nanosecond that the universe had. God of small things, indeed. I prefer the answer "don't know" to "god" personally.

Brian Shanahan

Oh my Gaaaaaawwwwwwd! Our mods are being taken over by Pokemons.

Dr. Peter Venkman: This forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?

Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.

Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!

Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Mayor: All right, all right! I get the point!

5uspect

I remember Hitchens debating Quinn on today FM's Sunday Supplement several years ago. Needless to say it was hilarious.

Unfortunately I can't find it anywhere.

Christy42

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Shouldn't that be irrational?

I don't usually post to correct typos, but when they inadvertently change the meaning of a post, I think its a good idea.

Pretty sure he meant Dawkins having to go through his own, rational, argument repeatedly as opposed to having to hear the opponents irrational arguments.

Bloe Joggs

Turtwig wrote: »

Why is there matter?

WHY MATTER?


Why MATTTERR?

Seriously theists obsession with this something/nothing stuff is really saddening.

Well, The problem is the word Why. How is a much more suitable question for these issues. Why assumes a reason with some sort of intelligent purpose. As Humans we've developed certain aspects of language to relate to each other. The question why? makes much more sense when humans or sometimes other animals are involved. When dealing with the mechanics of the universe, how would seem to be much more appropriate. Why did the chicken cross the road?.....How does lightning discharge in a thunderstorm?

Obliq

Bloe Joggs wrote: »

Well, The problem is the word Why. How is a much more suitable question for these issues. Why assumes a reason with some sort of intelligent purpose. As Humans we've developed certain aspects of language to relate to each other. The question why? makes much more sense when humans or sometimes other animals are involved. When dealing with the mechanics of the universe, how would seem to be much more appropriate. Why did the chicken cross the road?.....How does lightning discharge in a thunderstorm?

Ah ha! Good point. Is that the thing that theists always latch onto then? The Why, rather than the How? Makes sense.

The Black Oil

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/where-is-political-outcry-over-cartoon-attacking-priests-1.1766944

Breda O' Brien

The only major Irish research we have, the Sexual Abuse and Violence in Ireland Report , says just over 3 per cent of sexual abuse was carried out by priests and religious. That statistic is often misread as stating that more than 3 per cent of priests are abusers. In fact, because abusers of children tend to have many victims, it is probably much less than that.

It is so, so easy to scapegoat one group, and thereby escape the need to look more deeply at the remaining 96 per cent of sexual abuse.

It really, really annoys me when people pull this only 3% line about priests. Stop trying to play the stats game with this issue. The point is they were supposed to be better than the lay population, the moral compass, and there were cover ups. :mad: Other cases are reported in the media every week. They are horrific. Nobody is under any illusion about that a lot of a abuse in families and that the church has nothing to do with it. Some of the custodial. sentences make you wonder what is going on. But, Breda, stop being such a feckin' apologist.

The media are obsessed with the confessional seal. The Samaritans have a similar commitment to never revealing anything their callers talk about, but no one pillories them.

They also have a commitment to not judging people based on who they are. Funny, eh?

Hotblack Desiato

The problem for the RCC isn't that individuals among its clergy did bad things (although, of course, for society that is still a serious problem.)
The problem for the RCC specifically is that it covered up and excused and transferred and promoted people who they knew did very bad things, then lied about it, and continue to lie and weasel about it, and continue to deny responsibility, and continue to deny proper financial compensation.

Breda like all the other blinkered apologists just doesn't get it.

Meanwhile her church is still scraping money off the collection plates and using it to pay retirement income to convicted paedophiles, top-notch legal defence for suspected paedophiles, 'counselling' at church facilities for convicted paedophiles in the hope it will reduce their sentence, etc.

smacl

ninja900 wrote: »

Breda like all the other blinkered apologists just doesn't get it.

Meanwhile her church is still scraping money off the collection plates and using it to pay retirement income to convicted paedophiles, top-notch legal defence for suspected paedophiles, 'counselling' at church facilities for convicted paedophiles in the hope it will reduce their sentence, etc.

Not to mention legal fees involved in trying to censor our national broadcaster or anyone else that may be critical of her lobby group.

Hotblack Desiato

smacl wrote: »

Not to mention legal fees involved in trying to censor our national broadcaster or anyone else that may be critical of her lobby group.

Not sure if the RCC directly supports the iOnanists. But who knows where they get their 'charitable' funding from. They should be made to either (a) give up their political lobbying (b) give up their charitable status and register as a political lobby group and be bound by the rules in relation to transparency etc.

At the moment they have it both ways.

The irony is that AI were banned from being recognised as a group permitted to carry out civil weddings because they lobby politicians. All churches do this!

If we had a government with any balls they'd remove promotion of religion as a recognised 'charitable' activity. Won't happen though.

Cabaal

and they are at it again, talking utter nonsense

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/05/09/what-has-the-frankfurt-school-ever-done-for-us/

“….the past 50 years? Our schools have certainly been dumbed down and teachers are losing their authority (Minister Ruairi Quinn wants Junior Leaving Cert history to be optional and he wants to relegate religion as a subject…
“…The legal system is soft on crime and indifferent to its victims. Pornography on the internet is widespread. (The HSE-run youth website SpunOut gives advice on how to have an enjoyable ‘threesome’). Opposing abortion or non-traditional sexual morality is seen as bigotry and narrow-mindedness.
Our drinking and drug ‘culture’ are legendary. Ireland is one of the biggest alcohol consumers in Europe, and according to the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, Ireland remains among the biggest users of cocaine in the EU.
There is a growing denial that the role of the mother and father are complementary and different (even, oddly, as there is growing demand for gender quotas in politics and the corporate world).
There is a left-leaning, anti-conservative consensus in the mainstream media; and even within the Catholic Church there are strong relativising tendencies.
It now seems the Communism of old Russia has transformed into a cultural Marxism in the West, influenced by the ideas of a group of Marxist ‘intellectuals’ from the German Frankfurt School in the 1920s. The Communist Willi Munzenberg summed up the Frankfurt School’s long-term operation: “We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.”. Doesn’t this look like a perfect recipe for a demoralised people?”

Find it amusing that they consider the justice system poor when it comes to victims, this coming from an organisation that is happy to force rape victims to give birth to baby's from rapists.

Also, personally I have no issue with spunout dealing with threesomes, the website is aimed at 16-25 year olds and to not discuss such issues is sticking your head in the sand in this day and age.

Opposing .....non-traditional sexual morality is seen as bigotry and narrow-mindedness.

Thats because that's exactly what it is! Doesn't matter if you don't like the terms, thats exactly what Iona is.
If I oppose equal treatment for black people then I expect to be called a racist and bigot.

Could George Orwell’s words come true when he said over 60 years ago that the future will be like the State’s big boot stamping down on us? Or will the State rule with a nanny, happy-smiley-type authoritarianism in the guise of nice, ‘progressive’ liberalism, but intolerant of any opposing ideas?

Funny,
Seems Iona would be more then happy to have the catholic church be that boot like it was in the 1950's in Ireland, but they don't like women having choice, respect for our fellow man and tax payer money not being wasted pushing the "one true faith" in 90% of our schools.

Ash.J.Williams

The church have nothing to do with out drink and drugs culture?? I think they have their fair share of blame.

Christy42

I am pretty sure we would have had a drink culture 50 years ago. Always kinda worrying when these guys get crazier than the religion behind it. I wonder if they will make a more definitive break from the church at any stage. It is kinda like that conservapedia thing attempting to rewrite the bible to get rid of any "left leaning" bias. I mean if you are going to take a book as your only source for morality I am pretty sure you aren't allowed rewrite it.

The Black Oil

Is this press release some sort of failed college essay rant?

smacl

Cabaal wrote: »

It now seems the Communism of old Russia has transformed into a cultural Marxism in the West, influenced by the ideas of a group of Marxist ‘intellectuals’ from the German Frankfurt School in the 1920s. The Communist Willi Munzenberg summed up the Frankfurt School’s long-term operation: “We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.”.

PopePalpatine

Now you guys know why I find it hard to resist calling Quinn that word. What a miserable, pathetic poison dwarf.

lazygal

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Now you guys know why I find it hard to resist calling Quinn that word. What a miserable, pathetic poison dwarf.

Ah now. Dwarf, really?

PopePalpatine

Good point, I feel like I'm insulting Peter Dinklage by association. IIRC one of the mods here, probably robindch, saw Quinn in person and noted how short he was.

Hotblack Desiato

His arguments fall short of the mark, regardless.

Cabaal wrote: »

Find it amusing that they consider the justice system poor when it comes to victims, this coming from an organisation that is happy to force rape victims to give birth to baby's from rapists.

And compel underage rape victims to swear to secrecy, then promote that cleric to the highest religious office in the land and see nothing whatsoever wrong with this.

Seems Iona would be more then happy to have the catholic church be that boot like it was in the 1950's in Ireland, but they don't like women having choice, respect for our fellow man and tax payer money not being wasted pushing the "one true faith" in 90% of our schools.

It's like the religious right in the US - small government everywhere, except it should have unlimited powers to intervene in the bedroom activities of consenting adults.

Nodin

A "guest blog"? Anyone find a JP Valerand on the net? I couldn't. Odd that his initials are the same as a conservative pope and the last name that of a Calvinist reformer....almost like somebody made it up.

lazygal

Surely,.given that lying is wrong unless it's a mental reservation, the Iona Institute - an INSTITUTE - wouldn't just make stuff up. Surely?

Cabaal

lazygal wrote: »

Surely,.given that lying is wrong unless it's a mental reservation, the Iona Institute - an INSTITUTE - wouldn't just make stuff up. Surely?

Its ok, they can ask for forgiveness from their invisible friend,
so that makes it ok

Hotblack Desiato

Cabaal wrote: »

Its ok, they can ask for forgiveness from their invisible friend,
so that makes it ok

The 'and sin no more' bit may get overlooked though.

pauldla

ninja900 wrote: »

The 'and sin no more' bit may get overlooked though.

It's not a sin if you're doing it for God; employing your talents in the service of the Lord.