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Lolek Ltd, Trading as 'The Iona Institute'

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    #1232
    xband
    Closed Accounts Posts: 368 ✭✭xband


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    Regardless of one's perspective, it's ridiculous to lambast the Iona Institute's media profile and not to do the same in relation to the likes of Rory O'Neill/Panti Bliss.

    Well, Panti is a drag queen who wears her heart and her political philosophy on her sleeve. There's nothing particularly complex or confusing about that. You're free to agree or not agree with her. She doesn't mince words or play with language at all.

    Aspects of the religious right however operates like a PR machine and tends to present highly conservative attitudes in a warm and fuzzy way using umpteen brands, posters with stock images of families etc etc etc.

    I can deal with a religiously conservative persons or organisations being upfront about their philosophy. I don't like this spin and media infiltration approach.


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    #1233
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,641 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    xband wrote: »
    Aspects of the religious right however operates like a PR machine and tends to present highly conservative attitudes in a warm and fuzzy way using umpteen brands, posters with stock images of families etc etc etc.

    They also, of course, lie. Lie furiously, lie repeatedly, lie shamelessy.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #1234
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    They also have unfettered access to the media with regular appearances on current affairs broadcasting. Yet we've no idea who funds them and who they really represent.


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    #1235
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Nodin wrote: »
    And he's still whinging.......................
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/in-2015-we-voted-against-the-right-of-a-child-to-a-mother-and-a-father-34327836.html
    The only responses allowed to the big Yes vote in May have been celebration or, having accepted defeat, silence.
    He doesn't do irony, does he?


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    #1236
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    5uspect wrote: »
    They also have unfettered access to the media with regular appearances on current affairs broadcasting.

    Didn't you read Quinn's article about how the liberals control the media?


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    #1237
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    Regardless of one's perspective, it's ridiculous to lambast the Iona Institute's media profile and not to do the same in relation to the likes of Rory O'Neill/Panti Bliss.

    How so? And when you say "the likes", what others do you refer to?


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    #1238
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    He doesn't do irony, does he?

    .....nope, or shutting up and fucking off for that matter.


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    #1239
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Didn't you read Quinn's article about how the liberals control the media?

    If he thinks Irish media is liberal I shudder to think of the level of his conservatism.


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    #1240
    Dricmeister
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭Dricmeister


    Kev W wrote: »
    How so?

    Because there are people who find the sight of "Panti's Queen's Speech" on Christmas Day as offensive and subversive as others find the likes of David Quinn and the Iona Institute.

    They are two extremes of the spectrum...what some might describe as the crackpot religious right and a homosexual HIV Positive drag queen.

    I believe that we should either embrace free speech and accept both on our airwaves or alternatively eliminate both and make our mainstream media more mainstream.

    It is not reasonable though to give out about the David Quinns and Breda O'Briens of this world unless one is equally ready to lambast the Panti Blisses of this world.


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    #1241
    Dricmeister
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭Dricmeister


    Nodin wrote: »
    How so? And when you say "the likes", what others do you refer to?

    People who it would be reasonable to describe as "extreme liberals".

    Surely you aren't disputing that David Quinn and Rory O'Neill are at two ends of the spectrum?


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    #1242
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    Because there are people who find the sight of "Panti's Queen's Speech" on Christmas Day as offenisve and subversive as others find the likes of David Quinn and the Iona Institute.

    They are two extremes of the spectrum...what some might describe as the crackpot religious right and a homosexual HIV Positive drag queen.

    I believe that we should either embrace free speech and accept both on our airwaves or alternatively eliminate both and make our mainstream media more mainstream.

    It is not reasonable though to give out about the David Quinns and Breda O'Briens of this world unless one is equally ready to lambast the Panti Blisses of this world.

    If the panti blesses of this world are attempting to make the law force people to follow the religion they exist to promote let us know.


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    #1243
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    Surely you aren't disputing that David Quinn and Rory O'Neill are at two ends of the spectrum?

    False equivalence much?


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    #1244
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,164 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    People who it would be reasonable to describe as "extreme liberals".

    Surely you aren't disputing that David Quinn and Rory O'Neill are at two ends of the spectrum?

    Extreme liberal is an oxymoron.

    If you have a problem with Panti Bliss why don't you criticize her? And while you're at it, criticize David Quinn too.

    That's what you want liberals to do.


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    #1245
    Dricmeister
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭Dricmeister


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Extreme liberal is an oxymoron.

    If you have a problem with Panti Bliss why don't you criticize her? And while you're at it, criticize David Quinn too.

    That's what you want liberals to do.

    If I had a problem with Panti Bliss, I would criticise him. Equally, I would criticise David Quinn or Breda O'Brien if warranted.

    All of the above are extreme elements of our society.


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    #1246
    xband
    Closed Accounts Posts: 368 ✭✭xband


    To be honest I thought the Irish Marriage Equality referendum actually played out in a very grown up and civilised way.

    Yes, we had some uncomfortable and insensitive comments in debates, but we really saw nothing I would describe as "extreme".

    I don't think Panti or the Iona institute are very extreme elements of Irish society, at least compared to our European neighbours' extremes. I don't like or agree with Iona on almost anything but they're more a reflection of an old Ireland that hasn't quite gone a way.

    They're just two points of view in what is a very rapidly changing society that's playing extremely rapid catch up in terms of social attitudes and has probably moved towards being a much more humane and liberal society over the last 30 years.

    I think that the marriage ref proved is that there probably isn't a deeply conservative silent majority.


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    #1247
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,382 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    I believe that we should either embrace free speech and accept both on our airwaves or alternatively eliminate both and make our mainstream media more mainstream.

    UTV Ireland's recap of 2015 said the No said were gracious in defeat and they showed a clip of Ronan Mullen acknowledging Ireland's positive relationship with gay people. Is this adequate enough for you on the "balance" spectrum?

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #1248
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    People who it would be reasonable to describe as "extreme liberals".

    Surely you aren't disputing that David Quinn and Rory O'Neill are at two ends of the spectrum?

    Yes I would be. One is a bar owner, who happens to be gay and do a fairly old fashioned (from what I've seen of it) drag act. The other is a campaigner and lobbyist funded by persons unknown who is the go to "other voice" on discussions ranging from gay marriage to religion and schooling. Yet his fellow members Breda O'Brien and Patricia O'Casey claim the organisation isn't a "catholic" one.

    Because there are people who find the sight of "Panti's Queen's Speech" on
    Christmas Day as offenisve and subversive as others find the likes of David
    Quinn and the Iona Institute

    How or why would they do so?


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    #1249
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    It still astonishes me that David Quinn actually gets published in the mainstream press. And it always tends to be absolute rubbish which he produces. :D
    I'm not at all surprised, the mainstream media is rubbish.


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    #1250
    Dricmeister
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭Dricmeister


    My original point still stands...David Quinn is far more representative of Irish society than Panti Bliss, and both are extreme in their views, so why are people so intolerant towards Quinn?


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    #1251
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1252
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    and both are extreme in their views

    Can you please qualify your statement, in what way is Panti Bliss' views "extreme"?


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    #1253
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    If I had a problem with Panti Bliss, I would criticise him. Equally, I would criticise David Quinn or Breda O'Brien if warranted.

    All of the above are extreme elements of our society.
    Dricmeister wrote: »
    Panti Bliss - TV3 Christmas broadcast
    Am I alone in thinking that this was in extraordinarily bad taste? A HIV Positive transvestite pushing his liberal agenda before the watershed on Christmas Day, a family day. Vile is word that springs to mind. The media and the homosexual lobby really won't be satisfied until they have destroyed the fabric of our society. If you want to know what this guy O'Neill is really about, listen to his interview on Newstalk around two months ago. In his view, a HIV infected individual has no obligation to tell a prospective sexual partner about his or her condition. Someone like that shouldn't be on tv.

    Wow.


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    #1254
    xband
    Closed Accounts Posts: 368 ✭✭xband


    I wouldn't be so sure about him being representative. The electorate hovers somewhere left of centre on most issues other than personal tax.

    On social issues here attitudes have moved enormously over the last 30 years. If anything, the establishment has been about 5-6 years behind the curve and is being dragged along by the electorate rather than leading any charges.

    The right wing commentators / lobbyists represents an Ireland that we left in the 1980s really.


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    #1255
    Dricmeister
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭Dricmeister


    Links234 wrote: »
    Can you please qualify your statement, in what way is Panti Bliss' views "extreme"?

    Well in my view someone with HIV should tell a prospective sexual partner about their condition.

    He doesn't agree apparently.


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    #1256
    Dricmeister
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭Dricmeister


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Wow.

    Wow what?

    Do you think that a "Queen of Ireland" broadcast by a HIV Positive transvestite is appropriate for 3pm on Christmas Day?


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    #1257
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,164 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    My original point still stands...David Quinn is far more representative of Irish society than Panti Bliss, and both are extreme in their views, so why are people so intolerant towards Quinn?

    David Quinn and the iOnanists represent a tiny, tiny minority of uber conservative catholics.

    Panti Bliss actually represents no one but herself, but is far more representative of Irish society, which is far more liberal and tolerant than the iOnanists would have you believe.


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    #1258
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1259
    xband
    Closed Accounts Posts: 368 ✭✭xband


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    Other TV channels were/are available.

    Not if you're too busy tuning in so you can tut and be outraged.

    It's very hard to rant, post online and change channel...


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    #1260
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    I don't know if you realize this, but HIV isn't transmitted through the TV. Nobody was in any danger. Also, Panti Bliss isn't a transsexual, but I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.


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    #1261
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Dricmeister wrote: »
    My original point still stands...David Quinn is far more representative of Irish society than Panti Bliss, and both are extreme in their views, so why are people so intolerant towards Quinn?

    If David Quinn were more representative of Irish society, the referendum would have resulted in a no vote.


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