Sound Engineering Course advice

minnilamb

Hi everone. I'm looking for some advice on sound engineering courses if anybody can help. I've been accepted into The Sound Training Centre for full time sound engineering training, beginning in September 12. I would absolutely love to take this course but its looking like I won't be able to afford it. Has anybody studied elsewhere that can advice a cheaper alternative with a decent qualification. Or a public Fetac course that's as well organized as The Sound Training Centre. Preferably in Dublin. I hear that some of the music centre's in colleges are a bit half assed which wouldn't suit me as I'm a mature student of 34. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

flyswatter

minnilamb wrote: »

Hi everone. I'm looking for some advice on sound engineering courses if anybody can help. I've been accepted into The Sound Training Centre for full time sound engineering training, beginning in September 12. I would absolutely love to take this course but its looking like I won't be able to afford it. Has anybody studied elsewhere that can advice a cheaper alternative with a decent qualification. Or a public Fetac course that's as well organized as The Sound Training Centre. Preferably in Dublin. I hear that some of the music centre's in colleges are a bit half assed which wouldn't suit me as I'm a mature student of 34. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Have a look at Ballyfermot.

powerplant

I guess the only advice I can offer is be aware of the distinction between sound engineering courses and music technology courses. STC and Pulse train you do to do live sound and how to operate in a large console studio. Music technology courses are more academic with the focus being on synthesis, pyschoacoustics etc.

madtheory

powerplant wrote: »

I guess the only advice I can offer is be aware of the distinction between sound engineering courses and music technology courses. STC and Pulse train you do to do live sound and how to operate in a large console studio. Music technology courses are more academic with the focus being on synthesis, pyschoacoustics etc.

That's not quite correct. I know it's not in Dublin, but Music Tech in LIT includes live sound, there's an elective in lighting and event management. There's a Yamaha PM5D in the theatre and two PT HD rigs with D Commands.

powerplant

Yep madtheory, music tech courses do include sound engineering modules. My point is that they are a lot broader than dedicated sound engineering courses which typically involve more "How do I mic and mix this drumkit" kind of thing. I guess technology institutes like LIT would incorporate more practical production elements than their university counterparts.

minnilamb

Thanks guys.

I am after a more concentrated Studio / Live sound course with focus on mixing, studio routing etc. The problem seems to be actually finding past pupils from the public courses to ask their advice. And the websites of public colleges are not very informative as to their emphasis (with the exception of Ballyfermot. Thanks for that suggestion)

It's a great help so thanks

Maldini2706

If finances are an issue Pulse run a part-time course over three years that would allow you to work during the day. Have you looked into back-to-education grants?

Gel

Might as well throw our hat into the ring. We're a bit outside Dublin so it may not suit but we offer City & Guilds qualifications as well as Pro Tools and Apple certifications.

Best of luck what ever decision you make.

Willie

www.poppyschool.com

GTE

I second the Ballyfermot point.

Going by the title that is Music Production but when you look into the course more you get live sound (recording and mixing), studio recording and mixing, sound design (animation), critical listening (not taught great when I was there but it was well made up for in other modules which overlapped).

I am now in a university doing Music Tech and Sonic Arts. On the recording front, I have learned new things but nothing that I couldnt have read and really sat down to understand in Sound on Sound, which brings me on to the "sat down" thing. The practical element of the course is horrendous!
Interaction design has fallen apart in the school, the acoustics/psychoacoustics is being taught by someone incompetent in the skills of education, synthesis is good.

Looking back I should have gone to SAE in London for a degree/further education (Ballyer will give you a qualification to get into there) or also Bucks Uni in London too.

I want to teach later in my career so I need the degree but I am sure, if I was that way inclined I could have headed into to build experience with Ballyer under my belt (fantastic education, never had the best, inspired me to teach).

purplesocks

Hi, does anyone know anything about an "intro to music technology" course run by Waltons New School of Music in Georges St in Dublin. It is a ten week / 1 night a week course. More to help produce music from home. an intro to the basics.:)

wonski

purplesocks wrote: »

Hi, does anyone know anything about an "intro to music technology" course run by Waltons New School of Music in Georges St in Dublin. It is a ten week / 1 night a week course. More to help produce music from home. an intro to the basics.:)

How much does it cost? There is a lot of online resources for what you need, so you need to calculate if it is worth the money...

purplesocks

The Walton's "intro to music techonology" course costs €270 which i think is very reasonable. I am just looking for a short part time course to get a feel for sound engineering, nothing too serious.

madtheory

powerplant wrote: »

I guess technology institutes like LIT would incorporate more practical production elements than their university counterparts.

It does. We actually do gigs in our theatre.

kabaal

Minnilamb do you have any qualifications already? Ie degree or diploma or anything of that kind? Some colleges such as UL or DKIT have superb MA's in Music Technology which are (or least were) subsidised by the EU's graduate skills program meaning you can do a full-time course for around €2500 instead of the €5K+ that you would spend in the STC or Pulse. Qualifications in technical subjects help your application but if you are really serious and show that you have a huge interest in music you can get in without primary qualifications.

Worth a look if you want to know more about music technology but don't have the cash for the STC or Pulse. That said the subject matter is certainly different focussing on more composition and the technology rather than the recording and production of bands etc.

For the studio or live sound engineering side of things you won't get any better than pulse or the stc. I did the music performance plc (briefly) in Kylemore before going to the STC and had some experience of their production course and though it was good it couldn't compete with the STC. The facilites in both Pulse and the STC are at a level that no other colleges can compete with. Hope this helps, any further questions let me know!

pistonsvox

Went to Ballyer myself doing the Music Production course. If I wanted to change something i'd rather just do the 1st yr subjects for 2 years. Got into the basics of acoustics and live, also had more practical hands on recording work.

Since I was more interested in live I wasn't quite keen in the animation aspect and the work with reason etc... But the lecturers make it way easy and they're all bang on! Would recommend it to anyone!

minnilamb

Hey guys. Thank you all for the advice and help. Unfortunately Ballyfermot is full this year so I've applied for Bray Institute instead. The course and music centre seem decent. Fingers crossed I'll get in. All the best to you and thanks again

PaulBrewer

Our own StudioRat used to teach in Bray .

boo3000

A lot depends on the situation your in, i did a course in Kylemore and i'm just finishing up a masters now in Music Technology, both courses were great in some ways but both had a lot of what i'd call filler ie subjects that weren't really related, like IT or business subjects that allowed the course to meet a qualification criteria.
If you just want to learn about sound engineering i'd advice doing workshops and buying your own gear and learning by doing. If you want a qualification that will allow you to teach or apply for certain jobs then go the college route but be prepared for a lot of frustration!

madtheory

"Meet a qualification criteria"? Nope, there's no such thing, not in the context you mean it anyway. Yes there are standards to be met, but no specific criteria about subjects to be taught.

boo3000 wrote: »

IT or business subjects

IT: There's nothing in audio that doesn't need this, these days. For example a modern broadcast engineer is really a network engineer. So this type of subject makes you more employable.

Business: very likely you'd be self employed in audio. Need I say more?

Ugh.Im.Clashing

Hope it's okay to post in an old-ish thread here!

I have to make a decision between pursuing the audio course in Pulse or the one in STC and I was wondering if anyone could offer any insights into either course to help my decision. I searched back through the forum and read a good few threads but most of the posts I found useful were from 2008 to 2010, and things can change a lot in a few years!

I've been to the open days, seen the facilities, met some of the lecturers and I'm finding it really hard to choose! The main differences I can see at the moment are that Pulse does work with film/gaming (resulting in a FETAC qualification in Media Production), while STC has more opportunities to gain work experience and earn money with the lecturers and studios there?

At the moment I'm also undecided about which area I'd like to pursue more afterwards e.g. studio vs live sound.

Thanks in advance!

Gel

Don't want to sound pushy, but we offer all the City & Guilds qualifications plus
Avid Pro Tools and Apple certifications. Fees are substantially less than
some other colleges!

Might be worth a look!

www.poppyschool.com

GTE

Reading this post back, it is a bit messy. Its late Ill be glad to clear things up if you wish to know.

Although there is sense in certs in Pro Tools and such things, I personally feel they are just certs in how to use a type writer. I certainly would not use an educational institution having these certs on offer or not as a pro or con of choosing the course.

Although the DAW you use can influence your acceptability in certain jobs I feel you have to be taught the process and not the program in college and university. It is up to the student to apply what he or she has been taught about recording and mixing into an industry standard setup, whether that is Pro Tools or Nuendo or Sadie etc. I know from all the bitching and moaning I do about Pro Tools, if I really had to apply myself to it or found I really needed it for my chosen path I could adapt myself to it fairly quickly. This could be a contentious point but I don't think the university or college should force a DAW on a student from the outset, even with the view of getting a student prepared for the industry. A choice should be offered with the student using the most comfortable one, this inspires learning the process of what we do instead of the program in my opinion.

If you are willing to spend the money I'd imagine you are willing to really go for this as a career path so I would also look into the likes of SAE around the UK and Uni of Salford with their MediaCityUK courses.

Belfast does a music tech course but it is really the prime example of how a course can suck balls.

You have places like Maynooth (only a arts degree if we really want to get into the detail of it). What put me off there is immediately being asked to take my focus off the music tech area and doing an arts subject or two. Limerick universities do course or two and I have heard them in high regard around the place, maybe it was here but I have heard it.

The likes of FETAC and City and Guilds qualifications are best used to get you into degree programs in a similar area. BTEC can also be used for this but I feel it has a better practical focus. I am biased though as having gone the BTEC and Bachelor of Science route I can tell you I learned more in my BTEC course in two years than anything the university could ever throw at me. Also, with the university, anything taught to me could have been learned by myself with the reading lists. FETAC is an Irish thing and I don't feel it really carrys any weight compared to the Higher National Diploma that BTEC has. In our industry, maybe that doesnt matter at all but in general the BTEC HND is seen by a lot to be "the" practical course out there.

With all that said, I am talking about how the FETAC, City and Guilds and BTEC qualifications look to employers. As we can mainly be freelance and basically because experience is much more important than a certificate you really need to make sure you are finding the best course available to you.

Practicality is where it is at with our general area and education. I have heard people talk about how they do not like how sound tech courses are everywhere and how the old apprentice style system is dying out and to be frank, I think they are very closed minded people.

There are good courses and bad ones so hopefully you can wade your way through that. Taking all the good courses first, there are so many graduates being chucked out of the good courses so you need to make sure you are the cream of the crop if you want to make it. I dont see how that is different in the long run than the select few getting through the apprentice style system and other systems of old. Every walk of life is being faced with an oversaturation of graduates for job availability. Where we differ to school teaching for example is that we can do freelance so if we focus on that we will find it tough but then the best people will end up on top of that group of people, as in the years gone by.

With everything said I want to repeat, there are good and bad courses. The perceived reputation of an institution means nothing so go look for its deserved reputation as best you can, make sure the course offers what is needed and links to future employment opportunities are strong.

studiorat

Excellent post there by bbk, covers the subject well. These courses are pretty much what you get out of them yourself. They are an opportunity to get information and to get time using the gear. How much you get out of that all depends on how much you decide to put in. That goes for any course.

After that it's down to how you get out there and meet people and present yourself to the industry regardless of if it's a level one FETAC or a PhD.

And while we're at it I'll stick in a link to my Pals who run City and Guilds courses in Dublin City, included when you join up is a free Focusrite audio interface !

ViRTU:media

Maldini2706

Ugh.Im.Clashing wrote: »

Hope it's okay to post in an old-ish thread here!

I have to make a decision between pursuing the audio course in Pulse or the one in STC and I was wondering if anyone could offer any insights into either course to help my decision. I searched back through the forum and read a good few threads but most of the posts I found useful were from 2008 to 2010, and things can change a lot in a few years!

I've been to the open days, seen the facilities, met some of the lecturers and I'm finding it really hard to choose! The main differences I can see at the moment are that Pulse does work with film/gaming (resulting in a FETAC qualification in Media Production), while STC has more opportunities to gain work experience and earn money with the lecturers and studios there?

At the moment I'm also undecided about which area I'd like to pursue more afterwards e.g. studio vs live sound.

Thanks in advance!

I just completed the course in Pulse so here's my 2 cents.

The major difference between both courses is that Pulse trains you up to 210M/P level on Pro Tools and STC doesn't (this is why Pulse costs a bit more). I don't think either of your observations about the two courses are really true to be honest. The film/gaming thing isn't really true, you do a bit but it's more post-production workflow than anything. You do get FETAC qualifications which are handy if you want to go on to further education (and also means you can claim the tax back on your fees if you're working). I don't think either course has an advantage when it comes to work experience. Also if you did the open days back in 2008/10 you should check out Pulse's again, they've moved to Windmill Lane which has two of the best studios in the country.

In regard to your last bit about not deciding whether to do live or studio sound, the industry is on its arse. You'll end up doing both if you're lucky. There aren't many people (especially at the start) who can afford to be choosy.

Ugh.Im.Clashing

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

Gel wrote: »

Don't want to sound pushy, but we offer all the City & Guilds qualifications plus
Avid Pro Tools and Apple certifications. Fees are substantially less than
some other colleges!

Might be worth a look!

www.poppyschool.com

I did have a look but the location wouldn't suit me. Looks like a great college though !

bbk wrote: »

[...You have places like Maynooth (only a arts degree if we really want to get into the detail of it). What put me off there is immediately being asked to take my focus off the music tech area and doing an arts subject or two. Limerick universities do course or two and I have heard them in high regard around the place, maybe it was here but I have heard it...]

Thanks for taking the time to write that post out, it's very helpful! I've actually just done the music tech degree in Maynooth and now I want to go further with it using one of these courses. I've thought a lot about my options over the last few months and I've narrowed it down to Pulse and STC. It's just a case now of picking one of them (I have offers for both). I'll definitely take on board a lot of what you've written though!

Maldini2706 wrote: »

I just completed the course in Pulse so here's my 2 cents.

The major difference between both courses is that Pulse trains you up to 210M/P level on Pro Tools and STC doesn't (this is why Pulse costs a bit more). I don't think either of your observations about the two courses are really true to be honest. The film/gaming thing isn't really true, you do a bit but it's more post-production workflow than anything. You do get FETAC qualifications which are handy if you want to go on to further education (and also means you can claim the tax back on your fees if you're working). I don't think either course has an advantage when it comes to work experience. Also if you did the open days back in 2008/10 you should check out Pulse's again, they've moved to Windmill Lane which has two of the best studios in the country.

In regard to your last bit about not deciding whether to do live or studio sound, the industry is on its arse. You'll end up doing both if you're lucky. There aren't many people (especially at the start) who can afford to be choosy.

I've been to the open days this year and asked the same questions at both interviews so I've just been going by what I was told, for example, in STC lecturers try to take students on work assignments to gain experience, and you can also take part in recording sessions in the studios there and earn some money doing it (this wouldn't happen in Pulse though)? I was hoping that someone might be able to clarify the accuracy of that, and also if the extra work with media in Pulse would be of any real benefit afterwards in terms of having more success gaining employment (more skills bulking up your CV kind of thing).
Also reading back through the forum, it was mentioned a couple of times that STC focuses more on live sound while Pulse is more studio based. I know both courses are mainly studio-based and live sound is a small element of the overall course but just that it plays a larger part in STC than Pulse? Maybe I interpreted it wrong though, I know there are separate courses for live sound there too. My own experience so far would be in a studio but I do have an interest in the live side of things as well.

Since I'm kind of going backwards from a degree to a diploma, I wouldn't be planning to go onto further education afterwards. I'm hoping I'll get what I need out of whichever course I end up choosing and then go out, work my way up and succeed (major emphasis on the hope, I know it won't be easy)!!


Thanks again for all the replies, definitely given me more food for thought!

flyswatter

Surely that doesn't reflect well on NUI Maynooth if you feel the need to go to Pulse/STC after finishing a Level 8 music tech degree?

I know that course is more tech than production based but still...doesn't seem right.

I could understand if you just completed a FETAC level 5 or something.

Man, check out DKIT in Dundalk, they have a new Music and Audio Production level 7 degree, it's focused on the Pulse/STC ethos, e.g production and engineering rather than tech. Some serious new facilities too. I'm pretty sure it's the only degree of it's kind. For example NUIM is music tech, so is LIT, as is Tralee etc.

Ugh.Im.Clashing

flyswatter wrote: »

Surely that doesn't reflect well on NUI Maynooth if you feel the need to go to Pulse/STC after finishing a Level 8 music tech degree?

I know that course is more tech than production based but still...doesn't seem right.

I could understand if you just completed a FETAC level 5 or something.

Man, check out DKIT in Dundalk, they have a new Music and Audio Production level 7 degree, it's focused on the Pulse/STC ethos, e.g production and engineering rather than tech. Some serious new facilities too. I'm pretty sure it's the only degree of it's kind. For example NUIM is music tech, so is LIT, as is Tralee etc.

Well, it was very broad and I learned the basics in a lot of areas but now I want to be more specific - build on what I learned in the studio and labs in Maynooth. There'll be some overlap at the beginning of the STC/Pulse courses but I'm fine with that. I don't regret doing the degree, though I'll admit that it turned out to be a little different to what I expected when I started.
The course is DKIT looks good but again, the location wouldn't suit me. Thanks for the suggestion though!

madtheory

Seems to me that if you just phoned up STC and Pulse, they'd answer your questions- because you're not looking for opinions, your looking for facts.

GTE

Ugh.Im.Clashing wrote: »

Well, it was very broad and I learned the basics in a lot of areas but now I want to be more specific - build on what I learned in the studio and labs in Maynooth. There'll be some overlap at the beginning of the STC/Pulse courses but I'm fine with that. I don't regret doing the degree, though I'll admit that it turned out to be a little different to what I expected when I started.
The course is DKIT looks good but again, the location wouldn't suit me. Thanks for the suggestion though!

Id imagine NUIM and other universities would use the Pulse courses and the likes as entry requirements for their own course so I think you would just have overlap the entire time.

I am all for standing up for the little courses which can really punch above their own weight but you would be much better off doing a masters then stepping down. Certainly, I don't think the likes of Pulse and STC punch above their weight at all. They charge too much when the likes of Ballyfermot will open you up to places like Limerick (maybe Dundalk) and if you are up for it most of the UK becomes open to you too.

Personally, having gotten my BSc recently I am off to MediaCityUK for a masters.

Pulse etc. Its a lot of money, its near enough masters money in the UK. I'd need a lot of convincing that they are worth because they didnt impress me when I was looking through there in 2008 (a long time ago I know). That is more my opinion than anything really constructive like my other post here though.

studiorat

Much better off doing a masters. What you really need to do is spend lots of time in a studio. Doing a recording related masters thesis would give you that opportunity.

It's about experience from here on in. Not more lectures.

flyswatter

BBK, you're right, I know someone who went to Ballyfermot and carried on to Dundalk. If you did the level 8 In Maynooth you can still do a level 7 at normal fees or the free fee scheme as they say. Dundalk isn't much distance from Dublin, although you seem to have your mind made up to be fair about location. I'd wonder though is there actually much need to do it at all? Not to be smart but you probably know a fair bit and I've heard it many times that it's the work you do practically in your own time not education that you'll learn more from. If you put a load of time into mixing on your own on a laptop or computer you're likely gonna become veru good at it. Is it a degree course you want to do? That would be a huge outlay of money for a very narrow degree with no guaranteed job opportunities.