Do you believe in angels?

Amtmann

skyline1515 wrote: »

I do not need to believe in angels to get comfort in my life, i have everything that i need, i believe that there is something out there bigger than us!!!

Why?

skyline1515

Amtmann wrote: »

Why?

Have you ever took time to think whats the reason for us being here? I believe there is a god, be it whatever religion a person is.( and before anyone has a go at me, i am aware of all the horrible things happening in the world, and if god is all good why does he leave these things happen...)
i believe that angels are there to guide us in the right direction in life... That is my opinion and if other people do not agree i respect their opinion.

oceanclub

shimmery wrote: »

In relation to fattammycat, Lorna has said that she would prefer her books to be sold for 3 or 5 eur, as cheap as possible in order for them to reach as many people as possible, but production/promotion costs reflect their price. I am of the understanding that she donates quite an amount to charity also.

Then I suggests she distributes them as free PDF/mobi/epub files online. Problem solved!

P.

Adamas

the_syco wrote: »

You do realise that these two sentences contradict each other?

Maybe post at the christianity forum: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=333 - they believe in angels and anything to do with their god...

The word 'angel' simply means 'messenger', and has been adapted by religions, mostly Christian, as being some sort of winged entity sent my the chief deity.

Socialist_Pig

murrayp4 wrote: »

Why doesn't she distribute the book(s) for free as a pdf on her website then??

she doesnt but i do...torrents ftw


57 leeches and no seeds......

whatdoicare

I believe this lady is someone preying on those who really want to believe and cashing in on it too.

My mam believes in Angels - and while I find it weird and a bit awkward when she starts talking to me about it, I have never told her so. I don't actively encourage it but I also don't cut her down when she wishes to tell me about how her cards told her this or her Angel book told her that. As far as I'm concerned if she believes in Angels that's her personal right and I hope they really do exist for her sake.

She is a typical middle aged woman who has led a sheltered life and it makes me rage to see someone like this lady using her deep personal belief to turn a profit.

Save your money - if Angels do exist they'll let you know- they won't need some scam artist to do it for them.

skyline1515

whatdoicare wrote: »

I believe this lady is someone preying on those who really want to believe and cashing in on it too.

My mam believes in Angels - and while I find it weird and a bit awkward when she starts talking to me about it, I have never told her so. I don't actively encourage it but I also don't cut her down when she wishes to tell me about how her cards told her this or her Angel book told her that. As far as I'm concerned if she believes in Angels that's her personal right and I hope they really do exist for her sake.

She is a typical middle aged woman who has led a sheltered life and it makes me rage to see someone like this lady using her deep personal belief to turn a profit.

Save your money - if Angels do exist they'll let you know- they won't need some scam artist to do it for them.

I can see where you are coming from with what you said. Both my mum and I believe in Angels, we have read different books on the subject by different people and of them all we have found Lorna Byrne the only one that is not out to rip off people any events/talks that she does are free, she does not sell her books at them or even mention where you can buy them. she doesn't do private sitting with people.
There is another lady called Francesca Browne, who charges people €40-€50 for 30 minutes of her time.... I would not cross the road to see her, as she is making massive money out people....
people ask why doesn't Lorna give her books free online, at the end of the day she wrote a book and the publishing company knew they would make money from it.. the €9 etc the book cost does not all go to her..

Amtmann

skyline1515 wrote: »

Have you ever took time to think whats the reason for us being here?

Yes. We are the result of an almost innumerable series of ongoing physical and chemical processes. Do you think the universe owes you a raison d'etre?

I believe there is a god, be it whatever religion a person is.( and before anyone has a go at me, i am aware of all the horrible things happening in the world, and if god is all good why does he leave these things happen...)
i believe that angels are there to guide us in the right direction in life... That is my opinion and if other people do not agree i respect their opinion.

I am asking you why you believe, not what you believe.

ellen27

I believe in angels as I have seen them twice 1 in a large golden ball floating above a kitchen sink and the other angel I seen was about 7 foot tall with a white glow. If I didn't experience this I wouldn't believe in angels

skyline1515

Amtmann wrote: »

I am asking you why you believe, not what you believe.

Sorry, went off on a tangent the last day.. ok the reason i believe in them is due to my own experiences in life, i suffered depression many years ago, for which i refused medication for and dealt with it through counseling and good friends. there were times when the world seemed so dark and lonely i would feel worthless etc.. during many of those time when i was at my worst. i felt what can only be described as arms around me and this feeling of love,and finding white feathers in my room in the morning...

hope this answers your question

purified

shimmery wrote: »

Over the past few months I have been reading the books by Lorna Byrne based on her experiences with angels, and all they have taught her. It really has reignited my belief in God, I am wondering has anyone else hear read these books?Or themselves had an experience with angels?
I am writing this in the Ladies Lounge, as I attended her book signing at the weekend, and the majority of those attending were women, bar two or three men!!

shimmery

Shimmery... Ive read all of Lorna Byrnes book and loved every one of them, i thought the ending of the first book was just magic!!!

We are ALL entitled to our OWN beliefs and its unfortunate u got such a bashing here for expressing yours!

Not everybody believes in angels just like not everybody believes in paying taxes (two polar opposites but they are still beliefs).

I personally belief in angels as i Feel i have had too many experiences to discount them, as for Lorna Byrne i have not met her and even though she was at an event last week in limerick i couldnt make it,, but form what i have read in the books she is very sure of what she is saying i just wish when challenged in public as she is so often she could give people proof as she has clearly had it before, whether she chooses to do this in private is her own choice but i do believe she sees angels.

At the end of the day there isnt smoke without fire and surely at this stage in the world the experiences of this are widespread.

oceanclub

ellen27 wrote: »

I believe in angels as I have seen them twice 1 in a large golden ball floating above a kitchen sink and the other angel I seen was about 7 foot tall with a white glow. If I didn't experience this I wouldn't believe in angels

P.

Amtmann

skyline1515 wrote: »

Sorry, went off on a tangent the last day.. ok the reason i believe in them is due to my own experiences in life, i suffered depression many years ago, for which i refused medication for and dealt with it through counseling and good friends. there were times when the world seemed so dark and lonely i would feel worthless etc.. during many of those time when i was at my worst. i felt what can only be described as arms around me and this feeling of love,and finding white feathers in my room in the morning...

hope this answers your question

Thanks, it does. However, for me that is absolutely no reason to believe in angels. People often believe in unlikely things at times of distress, purely for the comfort factor.

Would you consider subjecting those feathers to scientific analysis to rule out the probability that they came from a bird?

skyline1515

Amtmann wrote: »

Thanks, it does. However, for me that is absolutely no reason to believe in angels. People often believe in unlikely things at times of distress, purely for the comfort factor.

Would you consider subjecting those feathers to scientific analysis to rule out the probability that they came from a bird?

If they came from a bird,so be it.. i take it as a sign.

i do understand where you are coming from and i respect your right not to believe in them and i do not believe in going around trying to make people believe in Angels...

Amtmann

skyline1515 wrote: »

If they came from a bird,so be it.. i take it as a sign.

With respect, you take it as a sign of what? That a bird feather ended up in your bedroom?

It seems that you believe because you want to believe; you want it to be true; but of course, that is not a good reason to believe anything.

purified

[QUOTE=It seems that you believe because you want to believe; you want it to be true; but of course, that is not a good reason to believe anything.[/QUOTE]

As an outsider and the fact that this is on a public forum are you not just putting words in this persons mouth, Surely living in a free world gives them the right to want to believe in whatever they choose? Who are you to decide what is a 'good reason to believe anything'?

Amtmann

purified wrote: »

As an outsider and the fact that this is on a public forum are you not just putting words in this persons mouth, Surely living in a free world gives them the right to want to believe in whatever they choose? Who are you to decide what is a 'good reason to believe anything'?

Clearly you don't grasp the concept of a discussion forum. If someone wanted to believe the world is flat, would you respect that belief as well (noting that respect is not the same as tolerate)?

The poster says he believes in angels in part because he found feathers in his bedroom. I respond by saying that this is a poor reason to believe in angels. Do you think it's a good reason to believe in them?

And certainly, wanting to believe something is a very poor reason for actually believing something. I might want to believe that the girl next door loves me; but if in fact she does not, then my wanting to believe it will do nothing to make the belief true. The same principle is at work with respect to wanting to believe in angels.

A lot of people are unable to discern that wishing for a thing to be true does not actually make it true.

purified

Amtmann wrote: »

Clearly you don't grasp the concept of a discussion forum. If someone wanted to believe the world is flat, would you respect that belief as well (noting that respect is not the same as tolerate)?

The poster says he believes in angels in part because he found feathers in his bedroom. I respond by saying that this is a poor reason to believe in angels. Do you think it's a good reason to believe in them?

And certainly, wanting to believe something is a very poor reason for actually believing something. I might want to believe that the girl next door loves me; but if in fact she does not, then my wanting to believe it will do nothing to make the belief true. The same principle is at work with respect to wanting to believe in angels.

A lot of people are unable to discern that wishing for a thing to be true does not actually make it true.

On the Contrary i understand exactly the purpose of a discussion forum. the key word being discussion! not heres my view if you dont like it you are wrong!

As for finding the feathers on the floor, RESPECT plays a huge part in this, while i would be sceptical that this alone would be enough to believe in angels i would absolutely respect his choice to do this as each persons experience of a particular event is different and should never be discounted by someone who doesn't fully understand the situation or emotions connected with that experience.

It is disrespectful to tell someone that their reason for believing in something is not a good enough reason just because it does nto resonate with you, This is their choice to share this and look for help on this subject, Help should not be seen as a opportunity to tell someone they are wrong, it should be an opportunity to educate someone and not tell them there beliefs are not acceptable to you whatever personal opinions you have (which by the way everyone has tolerated and respected here). There are plenty of ways the OP can be reassured that they are entitled to their own opinion and allowed to express that without having to worry about being belittled by being told their beliefs are not concrete enough.

Luckily we do not live in a communist country where are beliefs are not forced upon us!

Red21

Amtmann wrote: »

With respect, you take it as a sign of what? That a bird feather ended up in your bedroom?

It seems that you believe because you want to believe; you want it to be true; but of course, that is not a good reason to believe anything.

You've just made one big assumption about the poster here and whats that based on, a few short posts.
Do you often jump to conclusions so quickly? are you ever wrong when you do?

skyline1515

Amtmann wrote: »

It seems that you believe because you want to believe; you want it to be true; but of course, that is not a good reason to believe anything.

I would like to ask you a question, (if you wish not to answer it, i respect that)
when it comes to spirituality and religion what do you believe?

Sin City

This is Juan Pablo Angel



and yes he exists

skyline1515

Red21 wrote: »

You've just made one big assumption about the poster here and whats that based on, a few short posts.
Do you often jump to conclusions so quickly? are you ever wrong when you do?

Thank you to the two previous posters who have come on board with great responses, it is very hard in the culture and world we live in to be allowed to believe in anything without holes been poked in it,we live in a world that expects proof of everything,has to be seen to be believed. It is my faith that makes me believe and for that i'm proud.

This is something that is important to me and will be for the rest of my life. I do not need hard fact or proof they exist.

P.S just because my username is skyline after my car does not make me a guy

purified

lol great taste in cars

Amtmann

Red21 wrote: »

You've just made one big assumption about the poster here and whats that based on, a few short posts.
Do you often jump to conclusions so quickly? are you ever wrong when you do?

There is a difference between asserting and supposing. After reading what she wrote, I concluded that "it seems you believe in x, y, z." That is not an assertion, and the poster could have corrected me if she so wished.

skyline wrote:

I would like to ask you a question, (if you wish not to answer it, i respect that)
when it comes to spirituality and religion what do you believe?

I don't believe in any religion or spirits. There is no difference to me between God, angels, leprechauns, unicorns, Judaism, or tooth fairies. There is not a shred of evidence to convince me that one is more real than any of the others. If there were, I would heed it.

So, if there's no evidence - and there isn't - then what would convince someone to believe in any one of them above the rest? Personal experience? Fine. But if you say that you think your personal experience is a reason to believe in such things, other people can be expected to reply with skepticism, which is all I've done.

Also, it doesn't do much use to complain when people poke holes in your beliefs. There was a time when people thought that lightning was the wrath of the gods, and that the sun traveled around the earth. Rational people rightly poked holes in those beliefs and we're a little wiser because of it.

purified wrote:

As for finding the feathers on the floor, RESPECT plays a huge part in this, while i would be sceptical that this alone would be enough to believe in angels i would absolutely respect his choice to do this as each persons experience of a particular event is different and should never be discounted by someone who doesn't fully understand the situation or emotions connected with that experience.

Respect is an interesting word. I respect skyline's right to believe whatever she likes. But I retain the right to subject her view to some critical analysis when she puts it forward on a discussion forum.

I have not been disrespectful to skyline; I have simply critiqued her view. If you think that that is disrespectful, then I suggest you put your fingers in your ears, because such critiquing is a perfectly reasonable response when someone tells you that a feather in their bedroom is evidence of angelic visitations.
I say that it is evidence of birds.
Is that really disrespectful?

As for a person's emotional state when they think angels are present, I must point out that this has nothing to do with whether angels exist. Either they exist, or they do not. It makes no difference if you are happy or sad or depressed or anguished.

Anyway, your plea for respect seems really to be a call for others to not state why they might disagree with your view. I am happy to disagree with others, and for others to disagree with me. But the exchange will be meaningless unless people are allowed to frankly express the reasons for their disagreement, without being accused of disrespect. So, I respect skylight, and but I do not agree with her opinion, for the reasons I've outlined. There's nothing disrespectful in that. If you think there is, then our conversation cannot proceed.

The thread title, by the way, is "Do you believe in angels?", which implies that those who do not are entitled to contribute as well.

skyline1515

Amtmann wrote: »

Rational people rightly poked holes in those beliefs and we're a little wiser because of it.


By that statement you are saying i'm not a rational person or wise, just because i believe what i do. If you met me on a business level you would eat those words..

The thread title, by the way, is "Do you believe in angels?", which implies that those who do not are entitled to contribute as well.

Fair enough the title is "do you believe in angels?" and you are entitled to your opinion but i do feel i'm getting a battering for believing what i do. I cannot 100% prove they exist the same way you cannot 100% prove they do not. I feel i have to defend my believes.

Amtmann

skyline1515 wrote: »

Fair enough the title is "do you believe in angels?" and you are entitled to your opinion but i do feel i'm getting a battering for believing what i do. I cannot 100% prove they exist the same way you cannot 100% prove they do not. I feel i have to defend my believes.

I'm not battering you at all! I admit to robustly taking issue with the belief, but I have no issue with you at all.

I would like to point out, though, that telling me I can't prove you wrong is a very weak defense.

For example, if I tell you that invisible elves live up your nose, you will probably disagree with me. But I'll just come back and tell you that you can't prove me wrong. Furthermore, I will tell you that if only you were more open to believing in the elves in your nose, you would know that they exist.

My belief in the example above is of course preposterous, but you still can't prove me wrong.

Now replace the nose-elves with anything you would like to imagine - Easter bunnies, tooth fairies, unicorns, angels (;)) - and instead of saying that they live up your nose, let's say they live in forests, or in another plane of existence. You still can't disprove the proposition, but I hope you can see that it is just as preposterous as the example of elves in your nose.

purified

Amtmann wrote: »

I'm not battering you at all! I admit to robustly taking issue with the belief, but I have no issue with you at all.

I would like to point out, though, that telling me I can't prove you wrong is a very weak defense.

For example, if I tell you that invisible elves live up your nose, you will probably disagree with me. But I'll just come back and tell you that you can't prove me wrong. Furthermore, I will tell you that if only you were more open to believing in the elves in your nose, you would know that they exist.

My belief in the example above is of course preposterous, but you still can't prove me wrong.

Now replace the nose-elves with anything you would like to imagine - Easter bunnies, tooth fairies, unicorns, angels (;)) - and instead of saying that they live up your nose, let's say they live in forests, or in another plane of existence. You still can't disprove the proposition, but I hope you can see that it is just as preposterous as the example of elves in your nose.

The fact that you put a icon beside a word does not the remove the passive aggressive undertone of that comment, while you are saying that you are not battering what skyline believes in you follow that up with such phrases as 'I would like to point out, though,' which immediately puts out a negative and agressive statement (the words might not be agressive, but the structure of these words say otherwise) Maybe you should rethink the way you phrase things and come to terms with the idea that even though you do not agree with other peoples belief's.... in reality it is none of your business and not really your place to 'angel bash' someone for expressing their request for advice.

Advice (opinion), an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide to action, conduct. Just because this does not fall in line with your line of thought does not make them wrong and if you feel the need to be recognised for the fact that you dont think it is ok maybe you need some reflection on yourself rather than looking for attention from strangers who are simply trying to help someone. This is not a channel for bashing people and surely if skyline feels like you are making them fell threatened and unable to express themselves, this is in fact you forcing your opinion aggressively and not alowing that person to express themselves, which if im right is a basic human right.... very extreme i know but by the comments on here you do seem to have a penchant to express your views to nth degree with passive aggressive language and of course the elusive

Oryx

Everyone: While this thread is titled 'do you believe?' this does not mean anyone who doesn't believe can demand that those who do produce proof. That would go against the nature and ethos of this forum, which is about spiritual (ie belief based) things.

Demands for proof and off topic arguments in that vein do nothing but derail the thread. Noone should take a defensive stance here whether believer or not.

thorny.rose

I believe in angels and my belief in angels is due to a near death experience that a family member had a some time ago. He came out from a car crash involving only him with only a few scratches and the car was a mangled mess. But something bizarre happened in that a prayer that he kept in the car came loose during the crash and landed beside him. He grabbed it before getting free. The prayer was The Miracle Prayer.

yellowfish

thorny.rose wrote: »

I believe in angels and my belief in angels is due to a near death experience that a family member had a some time ago. He came out from a car crash involving only him with only a few scratches and the car was a mangled mess. But something bizarre happened in that a prayer that he kept in the car came loose during the crash and landed beside him. He grabbed it before getting free. The prayer was The Miracle Prayer.

Bearing in mind the moderators reminder that this is a forum that does not question the validaty of other peoples reasoning. (I hope that is the correct interpretation) I can only say that I have been involved in several motorcycle and a couple of car crashes, I have so far escaped with relatively minor injuries, I have always been and remain an atheist and on the one occasion when the Indian takeaway I was carrying in the back ended up on my lap I did not feel the need to see it as the miracle of the vindaloo.
Personally if I thought I had a Angel I would ask it to go to Africa and help some poor starving baby rather than a middle class male in a wealthy society who only needed to slow down (Which I now do all the time)