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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Silencer on license problem... a new one???

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  • 13-03-2012 8:38pm
    #1
    rabbit assassin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭


    Recently put a sub in for a new rifle a .22lr for a .22lr.
    The new one is threaded for a silencer and I ticked the box when filling out the paperwork on the licence AND put a letter in for why I wanted the silencer on the rifle, keep noise down when shooting around livestock etc...

    Got a call only yesterday off someone in the superintendents office. She said there is a new regulation that they can not grant me NOR can I use a silencer on my firearm unless it is at a firing range. I told her I just wanted it for rabbit shooting and wouldn't be using it on a range as I am not a member.
    She continued to explain how I can not use a silencer on farm land in Co.Meath and this has newly came in. She also said that this is nothing personal against me or my application and that it is a new rule that has just come into place... I doubt its just Co.Meath that this is happening because that would be pointless... Maybe she just said Co. Meath because thats where Im living

    Has anyone else heard this or been given this story???


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    #2
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,981 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    I've heard it all now:pac:

    Try calling the FO and if that doesn't work out contact the FPU.

    Just on a general note why are Gardai who don't know their arse from their elbow on firearms allowed to contact firearms owners? I've read several similar stories here.

    No disrespect to Gardai intended


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    #3
    garv123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    The super could just decide to make his own rule of refusing all applications for silencers in your area and if this is the case i dont think there is much you can do about it.


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    #4
    rabbit assassin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭rabbit assassin


    I am actually still in shock over hearing her say this on the phone :eek: I thought I was hearing things ! She definitely said it was a new regulation they are putting into place and I am not allowed to use it on farm land. I was about to ask why not and she said it wasnt anything personal about me or my app but this was going to affect everyone. Im hoping I will wake up and this will all be just a bad dream. I giggle a little every time I think if this is actually going to be enforced.

    I will deffo be ringing the FO tomorrow to see what the story is.


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    #5
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    Must be very new because my oul lad was approved for a mod on his 22 last week :rolleyes:

    Be interesting to see what your FO makes of this


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    #6
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    rabbit assassin wrote: »
    She said there is a new regulation that they can not grant me NOR can I use a silencer on my firearm unless it is at a firing range.
    Bulls**t plain and simple.

    Contact your FO, then the FPU. Inform them (FPU) of what the Super is trying to do.
    garv123 wrote: »
    The super could just decide to make his own rule of refusing all applications for silencers in your area and if this is the case i dont think there is much you can do about it.
    There is if it is not legal.

    Every application must be judged on it's own merits. To refuse every appilcation for a mod is illegal, and if you are lucky he will write you a letter of refusal stating that he intends to issue a blanket ban on them. Would be nice to have, but i doubt your Super is that stupid.

    Don;t confuse that with he cannot refuse it. He can, but not without reason, and not for a particular item such a mod. This is where the la works in your favour. A mod is a firearm in it's own right under Irish law hence the need to license it. By the Super refusing to issue ANY mods it would be akin to him refusing to license Remingtons, Savages, Anschutz, or a particular firearm like he will not issue licenses for semi auto shotguns only O/Us. IOW a particular brand/type.

    Take the nice approach first, and allow the FO to try and sort this. If that fails ask for a letter of refusal if they intend to refuse. You'll need this either way. Also ask for the "New Law" that states this. Bring all this info the FPU, and ask them to intervene. Thats what they are for. Their job to to aid both the Gardai and public with the proper and FAIR implimentation of the firearms Acts/SI's, etc.
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    #7
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Also, don't forget what the FPU have stated about FOs in the past (in public) - sometimes they'll bull**** about what they don't know but they don't have any authority at all over licencing (hell, they don't even exist as such - Firearms Officer isn't a real post, it's just the term we use to describe the lad who's usually stuck with the job in the local station); so politely thank them and tell them to send on the form to the Super anyway.


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    #8
    homerhop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭homerhop


    wouldnt you think with all the sh**e lately with court cases and it being highlighted over the way they are doing buisness, someone in the upper ranks would be sending out a letter to all the supers and those dealing with the certs to get their act together because their actions are costing the state €€€


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    #9
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    homerhop wrote: »
    wouldnt you think with all the sh**e lately with court cases and it being highlighted over the way they are doing buisness, someone would be sending in the upper ranks would be sending out a letter to all the supers and those dealing with the certs to get their act together because their actions are costing the state €€€

    It would be infinitely more likely that any such letter would be instructing the DoJ to draft a new Firearms Act banning - in statute law, where it can't be challenged - anything that has ever caused problems in the courts in order to save money.


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    #10
    dbrock
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭dbrock


    i had major probems getting a mod ony recently, and when i finally got it this is a condition that was put on my licence, hopefully not a sign of things to come

    I had used this stud as my main reason for having the mod, along with the usual stuff


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    #11
    homerhop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭homerhop


    Its worse they are getting.


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    #12
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    dbrock wrote: »
    i had major probems getting a mod ony recently, and when i finally got it this is a condition that was put on my licence, hopefully not a sign of things to come

    I had used this stud as my main reason for having the mod, along with the usual stuff
    If there is an s on your licence can they put restrictions like this on the use of the mod?? Im guessing they cant really


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    #13
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    kildare.17hmr wrote: »
    If there is an s on your licence can they put restrictions like this on the use of the mod?? Im guessing they cant really

    Of course they can. The super is entitled to apply such conditions as they feel are necessary for public safety. Unfortunately they're not obliged to actually be well informed on what would best serve public safety. In this case however there's an irritating chunk of logic. If you got the mod to avoid bothering horses, then presumably you wouldn't need it when you're not around them. Not saying I agree, just saying that's how it's obviously being read, hence the restriction.


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    #14
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    Well to me it just sounds like the super stepping over the line of his power. Like i got my rifle and shotgun for hunting and this was the only reason on my app along with land permissions, to me this sounds exactly like my super saying i can only hunt on the permissions i submitted with my app and not use my guns on a range or at a clay ground if ever the mood struck me.

    Also like the super who issues a licence with a s but also sends you a letter saying you must apply each year to use the mod. This is incorrect and the letter can be ignored


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    #15
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    kildare.17hmr wrote: »
    Well to me it just sounds like the super stepping over the line of his power. Like i got my rifle and shotgun for hunting and this was the only reason on my app along with land permissions, to me this sounds exactly like my super saying i can only hunt on the permissions i submitted with my app and not use my guns on a range or at a clay ground if ever the mood struck me.

    Also like the super who issues a licence with a s but also sends you a letter saying you must apply each year to use the mod. This is incorrect and the letter can be ignored

    No, it's more like the super granting a pistol licence and putting a condition that it only be used at an authorised range. Hell, I've heard of larger calibre centrefire rifles with conditions on them that they can't be fired within the state. Still not sure if that was ever resolved. The contention was that if the rifle was bought for hunting in Africa, then it didn't need to be fired here. Now, you and I know that's a steaming pile of horseshít, but it made sense to the super, and they're entitled to put such conditions on the licence. It might not seem fair, but they're entitled, just as they can demand extra security above the legal minimum, request that you complete courses to indicate competency and so forth


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    #16
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    It wasn't me! wrote: »

    No, it's more like the super granting a pistol licence and putting a condition that it only be used at an authorised range. Hell, I've heard of larger calibre centrefire rifles with conditions on them that they can't be fired within the state. Still not sure if that was ever resolved. The contention was that if the rifle was bought for hunting in Africa, then it didn't need to be fired here. Now, you and I know that's a steaming pile of horseshít, but it made sense to the super, and they're entitled to put such conditions on the licence. It might not seem fair, but they're entitled, just as they can demand extra security above the legal minimum, request that you complete courses to indicate competency and so forth
    thats completly different lad i think my examPle is more relivent here. Is it not law that pistols can only be used at an authorised range tho? I think it is as they can Only be got for target shooting so that condition is a givin.

    Also the course and security are also law now and rightly so

    Cant comment on the africa hunting thing


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    #17
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    The point is if you apply for something on the basis of specific circumstances (pistol for use on range; moderator to avoid disturbing horses; .375 for hunting in Africa) the super is entitled to restrict you to use of the firearm (moderator in this case) in those circumstances. He's granted your application for everything you've requested after all. Also, no course is enshrined in law, for what it's worth. You have to demonstrate competency to the super's satisfaction, but there's no universally accepted, enshrined in law course for the purpose of it. Hell, if you can do a backflip and that convinces your super you're competent to use firearms safely, that's the legal requirement satisfied.


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