Farming and forestry thread removed.

The Jammy dodger

I had a thread in the farm and forestry section of boards. I had one reply to the thread and came back to see it has been completely removed without any explantion whatsoever from the mods. Is this normal procedure for boards?

Beasty

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

I had a thread in the farm and forestry section of boards. I had one reply to the thread and came back to see it has been completely removed without any explantion whatsoever from the mods. Is this normal procedure for boards?

Have you PM'd the mod(s) to ask why the thread was removed?

The Jammy dodger

Beasty wrote: »

Have you PM'd the mod(s) to ask why the thread was removed?

Should I have to? I get e-mail notifications of new replies. I might never have come back to check up on that thread that he deleted. Quite an in impolite thing to do in the mods case, to just delete a thread without letting me know why, unless it's in the rules that they can indeed do that. That said, I dont see how the ball is in my court, but I will PM the mods.

Thanks.

Zaph

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Should I have to?

Yes you should.

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

I get e-mail notifications of new replies.

I fail to see the connection between this and the thread being closed.

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Quite an in impolite thing to do in the mods case, to just delete a thread without letting me know why, unless it's in the rules that they can indeed do that.

Not rude at all, that's the sort of thing that mods do, although it won't have been done without good reason. However mods don't have the time to be contacting individuals about every action they take. They're volunteers, and to expect them to do so would place an unfair burden upon them.

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

That said, I dont see how the ball is in my court, but I will PM the mods.

I've explained above why the ball is in your court, but the mods will be able to give you more details when you PM them.

The Jammy dodger

I fail to see the connection between this and the thread being closed.

The thread wasnt closed. It was ''deleted''. And therefore I'd never have known it was deleted and would have been waiting around for an E-mail notification of a response from anyone. It's an unfair method imo.

Zaph

As I said, mods are volunteers and are busy enough without having to PM people justifying every action. They don't go around deleting threads for the fun of it, so clearly there was an issue with it that meant it could not remain visible. Nothing unfair about that.

The Jammy dodger

Zaph wrote: »

As I said, mods are volunteers and are busy enough without having to PM people justifying every action. They don't go around deleting threads for the fun of it, so clearly there was an issue with it that meant it could not remain visible. Nothing unfair about that.

Then dont become a volunteer I say.

There was nothing wrong with it. Mod pmed me back. and the story goes...I put a thread up asking about whether or not farmers put down poison in the lambing season to warn off animals such as dogs that would kill their stock. As its unheard of in america. The reason I asked I said in the post was that someone I know's dogs were poisened today and I wanted to know is this normal practice of farmers in the lambing season.

The mod replied through pm just now that he had so many complaints from boards.ie members about the thread and that they felt it was advocating illegal activity. How on earth can a simple question like that be advocating illegal activity?

Zaph

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Then dont become a volunteer I say.

Our mods work very hard and the work they do is very much appreciated. Without them we wouldn't have a site for you to ask your question on in the first place.

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

The mod replied through pm just now that he had so many complaints from boards.ie members about the thread and that they felt it was advocating illegal activity. How on earth can a simple question like that be advocating illegal activity?

I'm not going to pretend I know the legalities of stuff like this, so all I can suggest is replying asking for further clarification.

Dades

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

There was nothing wrong with it. Mod pmed me back. and the story goes...I put a thread up asking about whether or not farmers put down poison in the lambing season to warn off animals such as dogs that would kill their stock. As its unheard of in america. The reason I asked I said in the post was that someone I know's dogs were poisened today and I wanted to know is this normal practice of farmers in the lambing season.

The mod replied through pm just now that he had so many complaints from boards.ie members about the thread and that they felt it was advocating illegal activity. How on earth can a simple question like that be advocating illegal activity?

From the F&F charter:

johngalway wrote: »

2. Illegal actions, cruelty, advocating such actions, etc.

Illegal stuff is illegal. It's Boards.ie policy not to discuss illegality and it's definitely not welcome here. Members have been banned over this previously, seriously, save yourself the hassle and leave it out. Farming especially has a very public image and discussion of illegal practices, cruelty, or other activities damaging to the activities discussed in this forum does none of it's members any good and is prohibited...

Illegal actions also include the poisoning, shooting, trapping or other interference with any protected species in this state....

The charter directly addresses not talking about illegal practices that might bring farming into disrepute, and poisoning gets a specific mention.

So given you are deemed to have read the charter, why would a PM be necessary?

reilig

I'm the mod in question and as I explained to you, I deleted the thread because I received a number of complaints as reported posts about your posts on this thread - many suggesting that it was an illegal activity. I closed it to prevent it spirling out of control, with the intention of discussing it with my co-mod on farming and forestry.

Having discussed it with my co-mod, we have decided to undelete the thread, but leave it locked as numerous threads of a similar nature have spiraled out of control in recent times. We feel that the question has been answered in the thread. I have also given a link to the Laws on this.

Then dont become a volunteer I say

Both myself and my co-mod are volunteers for the farming and forestry forum. We don't receive any remuneration for moderating and we try our best to do the best that we can. What we do is unbiased and based on our own judgement with the Charter of the forum in mind. A small part of our role is to delete spam and offensive or illegal posts. The biggest part of our role is to to make sure that the forum runs smoothly and nothing spirals out of control, that everyone gets on well with each other and that anything posted is acceptable to all. Sometimes we have to take things out of the public eye until we have time to discuss them, sometimes we reinstate threads, sometimes we don't. But this is decided upon when both of us have time to discuss what's happening. Both of us hold down day jobs and get to things when we can.

Regards

Reilig

MOSSAD

Zaph wrote: »

Our mods work very hard and the work they do is very much appreciated. Without them we wouldn't have a site for you to ask your question on in the first place..

Without the members, your site would not exist.

reilig

Its agive give situation in my opinion. We are not baby sitters. We give whatever time we can afford . If you feel that i am not doing enough you should make it known to the higher powers and i will gladly step aside and let someone else do it.

MOSSAD wrote: »

Zaph wrote: »

Our mods work very hard and the work they do is very much appreciated. Without them we wouldn't have a site for you to ask your question on in the first place..

Without the members, your site would not exist.

Beasty

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

Then dont become a volunteer I say.

So your expectation is that Mod's should go out of their way to PM (you in this case) to explain their actions, but you don't feel any onus to PM the mod to ask the question in the first place?

Most posters don't make a big deal out of most mod actions. If we all decided to pre-empt possible questions we would have less time to enjoy the site ourselves

Cardinal Richelieu

Beasty wrote: »

So your expectation is that Mod's should go out of their way to PM (you in this case) to explain their actions, but you don't feel any onus to PM the mod to ask the question in the first place?

Most posters don't make a big deal out of most mod actions. If we all decided to pre-empt possible questions we would have less time to enjoy the site ourselves

In fairness, if a thread is deleted by a mod, a simple quick 1-2 line explanation(not a generic cut and paste job) pm is only good manners or is that me just being old fashioned?

reilig

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

In fairness, if a thread is deleted by a mod, a simple quick 1-2 line explanation(not a generic cut and paste job) pm is only good manners or is that me just being old fashioned?

In my opinion, if I have to delete or change a thread which has followed the rules, it is a common courtecy for me to pm the poster. However, if its obvious that the poster hasn't read the charter of the forum or has ignored it does it require a pm? Would many Mod's send a pm? I'm no virgin to boards myself and have had many threads deleted with no pm to notify me, just the reason for deleting it on the soft delete as i did with the case in hand.

In Farming and Forestry, we are dealing with a sensitive topic. Its a public forum. Anyone from a small farmer in leitrim to a top Agriculture Minister in the EU can read it. We have to be careful what is posted because our industry is based on image and perception. This is why we have a charter which everyone is asked to read before posting.

Dades

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

In fairness, if a thread is deleted by a mod, a simple quick 1-2 line explanation(not a generic cut and paste job) pm is only good manners or is that me just being old fashioned?

Good manners would be to read the charter before posting.

pickarooney

Based on the above, how was the post in question promoting illegal activity? It's not as though he was advocating poisoning dogs or boasting about having done it. Quite the opposite - he was surprised that this practice might be common in Ireland as it was unheard of where he comes from and was checking if this was really the case.

Cardinal Richelieu

Dades wrote: »

Good manners would be to read the charter before posting.

It was a general comment I made, not referring to the OP specific case. Don't you think that when a thread is deleted the Mod should send a 1-2 line explanation PM to the OP? Fair enough. How often have you seen people post in the help desk or other areas of boards about disappearing threads or posts? Your only passing the problem on to another mod to deal with, much more efficient to nip it in the bud by PM with the OP. Charters are like Laws, different interpretations by different people so your going to get the odd thread that's 50/50 based on the mod on watch call.

reilig

pickarooney wrote: »

Based on the above, how was the post in question promoting illegal activity? It's not as though he was advocating poisoning dogs or boasting about having done it. Quite the opposite - he was surprised that this practice might be common in Ireland as it was unheard of where he comes from and was checking if this was really the case.

The thread was taken down because I received reports of the OP's posts. The persons who reported it suggested that the Op was promoting an illegal activity. That's all. The thread was taken down until the mods had time to discuss it. However, the forum charter states this:

2. Illegal actions, cruelty, advocating such actions, etc.

Illegal stuff is illegal. It's Boards.ie policy not to discuss illegality and it's definitely not welcome here. Members have been banned over this previously, seriously, save yourself the hassle and leave it out. Farming especially has a very public image and discussion of illegal practices, cruelty, or other activities damaging to the activities discussed in this forum does none of it's members any good and is prohibited...

Illegal actions also include the poisoning, shooting, trapping or other interference with any protected species in this state....

It's Boards.ie policy not to discuss illegality

I presume that this was the point of rule that the person who reported the thread was concerned with.

reilig

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

It was a general comment I made, not referring to the OP specific case. Don't you think that when a thread is deleted the Mod should send a 1-2 line explanation PM to the OP? Fair enough. How often have you seen people post in the help desk or other areas of boards about disappearing threads or posts? Your only passing the problem on to another mod to deal with, much more efficient to nip it in the bud by PM with the OP. Charters are like Laws, different interpretations by different people so your going to get the odd thread that's 50/50 based on the mod on watch call.

But we're not hand holders and its not primary school. We are volunteers. If people don't read the rules, it isn't our fault. 99.9% of contributors can read and understand the rules before they post. We do this in our free time and it takes quite a bit of time. There is always numerous requests in our inbox for us to close or delete threads every day. There is no day that we don't have to investigate numerous reported posts. This morning, I had 2 requests to change and delete threads and 3 reported posts. It took me almost 40 minutes to sort. If we were to pm everybody about every move that we make, we'd need to give up our day jobs and be paid by boards to do this job. In reality, its a free site. Subscribers don't have to pay to post on it and mods volunteer their time. It works well, but in any other walk of life, if people want individual service they have to pay for it.

pickarooney

reilig wrote: »

The thread was taken down because I received reports of the OP's posts. The persons who reported it suggested that the Op was promoting an illegal activity. That's all. The thread was taken down until the mods had time to discuss it. However, the forum charter states this:




I presume that this was the point of rule that the person who reported the thread was concerned with.

Sounds like the posters calling the shots rather than the mod but how and ever. It just seems a bit rich that the mod and CMod would castigate the OP for apparently not reading the charter when a) he had not been in breach of it and b) neither of them had read the thread.

You've now made five posts on this thread - can you not see how one line of a PM would save you more time in the long run?

Cardinal Richelieu

reilig wrote: »

But we're not hand holders and its not primary school. We are volunteers. If people don't read the rules, it isn't our fault. 99.9% of contributors can read and understand the rules before they post. We do this in our free time and it takes quite a bit of time. There is always numerous requests in our inbox for us to close or delete threads every day. There is no day that we don't have to investigate numerous reported posts. This morning, I had 2 requests to change and delete threads and 3 reported posts. It took me almost 40 minutes to sort. If we were to pm everybody about every move that we make, we'd need to give up our day jobs and be paid by boards to do this job. In reality, its a free site. Subscribers don't have to pay to post on it and mods volunteer their time. It works well, but in any other walk of life, if people want individual service they have to pay for it.

Is not reading the rules against the rules???? Just infract them after you delete the thread then, simples.

reilig

pickarooney wrote: »

Sounds like the posters calling the shots rather than the mod but how and ever. It just seems a bit rich that the mod and CMod would castigate the OP for apparently not reading the charter when a) he had not been in breach of it and b) neither of them had read the thread.

You've now made five posts on this thread - can you not see how one line of a PM would save you more time in the long run?

But he did break the charter

It's Boards.ie policy not to discuss illegality

I had read the thread.

How do you think I deleted it in the first place?

Dades

pickarooney wrote: »

Sounds like the posters calling the shots rather than the mod but how and ever. It just seems a bit rich that the mod and CMod would castigate the OP for apparently not reading the charter when a) he had not been in breach of it and b) neither of them had read the thread.

I haven't seen anyone being castigated. Just a bunch of people offering advice on how to mod the Farming & Forestry forum.

Steve

Seems to me this could have been avoided if the OP got an email saying:

Dear <username>,
Your post in <thread title> has been removed or edited by the forum moderators. The reasons for this may include <generic list of stuff that breaches site guidelines>.
If you require any clarification, please contact the forum moderators by pm... etc..

Thanks,
Boards.ie.

It works well on adverts.ie so maybe something boards could consider going forward.

pickarooney

"Baby-sitters", passive aggression ("If you feel that i am not doing enough you should make it known to the higher powers and i will gladly step aside and let someone else do it. "), "it's obvious the poster hasn't read the charter", "good manners" and the snarky tone of pretty much every response to the OP here - how is this in any way helpful?

Quite apart from the fact the charter itself doesn't actually make any sense -
"Illegal stuff is illegal. It's Boards.ie policy not to discuss illegality"
- what on earth is that actually supposed to mean? - the original decision was reversed and the thread locked. I think the least you could do would be to acknowledge the poster has a point instead of virtually accusing him of committing a crime and trying to stitch him up for not heeding a line in the charter that doesn't actually mean anything at all.

Seriously, what would it have cost you to simply point out politely to the OP that discussion on poisoning animals was not something the forum wished to facilitate?

Rovi

As reilig's F&F co-mod, I'd like to say a few things:

F&F is generally a pretty laid back place with a good community spirit and a level-headed and sensible cohort of regular contributors.
It certainly doesn't require round-the-clock mod presence, which suits us (the mods) just fine, as we both have plenty of stuff to be doing in the real world.

There ARE however, a few topics that have proven in the past to give rise to a certain amount of upset, 'poisoning' being one of them.
Our policy to date when such subjects crop up has been to close and/or delete the thread until we mods have a chance to have a look at it and decide how to proceed.

In this particular case, my co-mod chose to remove the thread from public view (soft-delete). In hindsight, it perhaps wasn't the best course of action, but he was the one on the spot and I wasn't there to give any input.
It'd be easy to be wise now and say that I'd have done something different, but I can't honestly put my hand on my heart and say that I would have. I MIGHT have, but I could equally have done exactly the same under the circumstances.


Anyhow, this particular case and this thread has certainly thrown up some issues we need to address regarding the forum charter and the need to revisit our policy on hot-button topics, so thanks to everyone for that.

Can I ask that we please leave it at that? Some of the tone in this thread is getting a bit confrontational, which naturally is leading to some defensiveness, none of which is really conducive to an amicable outcome all round.