wagon silage vs self propelled silage

case 5150

hi all

with the current fuel prices, contractor prices for silage making are going to be crazy this year for especially silage making, I was considering getting a local contractor in with the 2 wagons to do my silage this year(70 acres 1st cut, 35 acres second cut), longest draw 4 miles away,
what is the advantages and disadvanages of wagon over self propelled, and what is wagon silage likecompared to slf propelled

GERMAN ROCKS

wagon silage wouldnt be chopped i think and i would be afraid it would block up all my slats if the cattle pulled it in.

1chippy

we have been using wagon the last four or five years. we have no bother with it. theres no issue with it blocking up slats or agitating after using it. the old man reckons he would never change back.
i have heard loads of arguments to and fro and generally get the opinion its better for sucklers as they end up chewing the cud more. theres a big saving on self propelled. four miles is a bit of a trek with a wagon though.

case 5150

contractor has 2 large pottinger torro wagon and doesnt mind the draw, he just mad for the work

Agri contractor

we got rid of our self propelled harvester a few years ago, now have a few wagons. Delighted with the move. The chop length depends on the wagon. Cows and cattle seam to be much happier on wagon silage compare to the self propelled.

case 5150

what sort of wagons give best chop lenght and would it take long agricontractor ta cut a heavish crop about 50 acres with a 4 mile draw, dont want it take to long ta get the silage in either

6480

case 5150 wrote: »

what sort of wagons give best chop lenght and would it take long agricontractor ta cut a heavish crop about 50 acres with a 4 mile draw, dont want it take to long ta get the silage in either

i ed say a good day and half and he would have ur 50 acres in , wagon silage might also take up more room in ur pit than sp chaff but at least u will have better feed next winter

pajero12

1chippy wrote: »

i have heard loads of arguments to and fro and generally get the opinion its better for sucklers as they end up chewing the cud more. .

6480 wrote: »

wagon silage might also take up more room in ur pit than sp chaff but at least u will have better feed next winter

Is there actually any proof of this atall?

Agri contractor

case 5150 wrote: »

what sort of wagons give best chop lenght and would it take long agricontractor ta cut a heavish crop about 50 acres with a 4 mile draw, dont want it take to long ta get the silage in either

This would be a very hard call, is the road good, is it one field or 10 fields. is the field high or level. Best thing to do is try it for 1 year and see how you get on.

20silkcut

case 5150 wrote: »

contractor has 2 large pottinger torro wagon and doesnt mind the draw, he just mad for the work

He won't mind charging you for diesel either.

pms7

I am using it with few years also. No problems. Much less panic on the day with 2 guys rather than a self propelled team around. Plus I am in charge of meals with herself working!
How much is he charging?
In my opinion contractors do not charge enough for long draws, they let the short draws subsidise the long ones.
Thinking of getting wagon myself this year, with a neighbour. Something like 20year old Krone @ $5000 doing 15 acres a day. Reckon you'd do it for €50-60 / acre costing everything except your own labour. Price plus doing half your cut early is very attractive I think..

Muckit

pms7 wrote: »

Something like 20year old Krone @ $5000 doing 15 acres a day. Reckon you'd do it for €50-60 / acre costing everything except your own labour. Price plus doing half your cut early is very attractive I think..

Buying it would be the easiest and the cheapest bit. Keeping it going would be a different matter entirely

st1979

What is it with wagons. That cause so much crap to be spoken on both sides. My dad had a wagon in the 70's which gave up in the 90's then we used contractors both trailed and self propelled and now i have a mid 90's wagon. And low and behold the cows still eat it both ways and its more important cutting date type of grass and weather, than the box that gets it into the pit.
Wagons are not for everyone and i would think a 4 mile draw is to far. But if the contractor with the self propelled charged you properly for such a long draw the wagon would still stand up. I can't understand how if you have a nice handy draw you get charged same as a guy with a long draw.
1 thing is wagon silage does need a little more space in the pit. But i don't believe that cows will do better or worse on wagon vs precision chop all other things being equal. But knives need to be kept sharp

Muckit

st1979 wrote: »

What is it with wagons that cause so much crap to be spoken on both sides...

It's not just silage wagons. There's alot of crap talked about on this forum full stop ! Alot of good stuff too, you just have to sort out which is which!! :D:p

pms7

Thanks for that st1979. Just wondering what wagon have you, how many acres/day, what is maintenance like, what HP up front and what do you push up with? Sorry for list of questions!

st1979

pms7 wrote: »

Thanks for that st1979. Just wondering what wagon have you, how many acres/day, what is maintenance like, what HP up front and what do you push up with? Sorry for list of questions!

Wagon is an imported 1994 strautmann vitesse 3 with steering axle
Acres/day is really a real variable one due to yield vs distance to pit. lowest per day is 20 acres but its 2 mile draw each way. Highest per day would be up around 40/day which was around the home farm. Maintenance is pretty low. grease and sharpen knives i would say its the same as maintaining a chopper baler as they are basically the same machine in the front. All the wear is in the pick up the rest of the machine would last forever. 100 hp will drive it but you would want to be going downhill as its not the driving of the chopper that takes the power its pulling the weight (wagon + full load = 16t). About 120 hp drives it ok on flat ground but its the commute back to the yard you will be so much faster with more ponies. I have hired tractors with 150-210hp and the more power the better as you can pack the load harder if you have enough grunt and then drive alot faster on the way back to the pit. On the pit i mostly use a 5140 with front loader or 20 ton track machine. when ever i get the field raked into 20' swaths i find i can go nearly the same speed as 10' swath and you have only half the corners to go around.
But as much as i like the wagon lots of people have really cheap old precision chops and a few trailers and can do it for small money especially now there is a lot more help about unlike during the boom.

pms7

Which is better for putting up 15 acres silage / day from a wagon, a tractor with a loader up front, or a buckrake on back?

GERMAN ROCKS

pms7 wrote: »

Which is better for putting up 15 acres silage / day from a wagon, a tractor with a loader up front, or a buckrake on back?

you will make ****t of a loader on the front of a tractor. if you have an 8 ft pike on front with a good pike of silage thats nearly two tonne and the loaders not going to lift it. tractors and loaders are not made for putting up silage. they couldnt shake the pike fast enough anyway on the way up. your far better off with a buck rake on the back or else a propper digger/loader.

cjpm

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

you will make ****t of a loader on the front of a tractor. if you have an 8 ft pike on front with a good pike of silage thats nearly two tonne and the loaders not going to lift it. tractors and loaders are not made for putting up silage. they couldnt shake the pike fast enough anyway on the way up. your far better off with a buck rake on the back or else a propper digger/loader.

Biggest problem with a buckrake is that you need a tractor with a suitable reverse gear ratio, not too fast or she'll struggle, and not too slow or you'll take forever and rev the **** out of the tractor.....

island of tighe

i have seen a good bit of both wagon and pit silage being made,you need about 20% more pit space for wagon silage.it seems to sink alot more in the pit

cat320

I made wagon silage last year and I found the silage very long, actually some of the silage was hardly chopped at all, just picked off swath and brought in..
Its true about pit space, you will need a good bit more to fit in the wagon stuff in your yard. Im going back to precision chop this year........

keep going

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

you will make ****t of a loader on the front of a tractor. if you have an 8 ft pike on front with a good pike of silage thats nearly two tonne and the loaders not going to lift it. tractors and loaders are not made for putting up silage. they couldnt shake the pike fast enough anyway on the way up. your far better off with a buck rake on the back or else a propper digger/loader.

put wagon on last year with a buckrake on the loader and never put on the 4wd -the secret is a fine weight on the back and dual wheels which makes a super packer.divided into 3 cuts of 20 acres which makes mowing and buckraking very managable and is handy for grass management