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Go **** Yourself EA
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Well there's basics stats which should be included in games, say for instance the older Call Of Duty titles, and then there's stuff like heat maps for levels and other web-based visual feedback based on metrics in the game. I'd argue that these are a significant investment for a developer and could command an additional cost. On the other hand, when you're dealing with a game with such a hugely popular and important multiplayer fanbase, it would be a wortwhile investment in order to keep your title on top and as such, should be included for free. Of course, the paid version of Elite offers a bunch of other content too, official tournaments with prizes, more regular content in the form of MP maps and Spec Ops content and "Call Of Duty TV". As I said above, none of this content particuarly interests me and even if it did, I'd probably prefer to buy said content individually when it I want it. 1.5 million people seem to disagree me with me though.ShadowHearth wrote: »I know not it's a subscription for additional statistic and bulk pay for upcoming dlc. Let's be honest, they cut out that statistic stuff and made in a subscription. Something like that should be included in a game already and I should not pay money for it again.
Aye, you mentioned that before. Only problem is a bunch of people disagreed with you and found the alternate endings from the DLC to be sub-par. So, who's right?ShadowHearth wrote: »As for dlc who made game crap without it: fallout 3 and new Vegas. Ending was sold as dlc.
I was actually going to use Dead Space as an example of an EA game where a subscription simply wouldn't work. What could they add for instance? More multiplayer maps? More skins? More weapons? Additional story-based animated movies?ShadowHearth wrote: »Dead space 2. Dlc that gives you all weapons and best armor from first shop for free. ( different side of the stock, but it still made game shiet )
But why would they bother? Dead Space 2 multiplayer wasn't exactly welcomed by fans of the franchise. The numbers playing it have dwindled to pretty much an insignificant number so there's no point in spending time working on additional content for that. And movies? Why would they not release them on DVD and Bluray when the two out so far have been extremely well received, both critically and commerically?
On this very thread last night we had people claiming the developers had lied, the content was all on the disc and wasn't it great that they had been found out. Of course, this completely ignored the fact that all of the content wasn't on the disc and what the developers had said about the development of the DLC was completely true. In fact, I'd wager that if you visited more forums even today, you'd still have plenty of people claiming all the content was finished in time and is all on the disc.Chairman Meow wrote: »After hearing that from ashes DLC for ME3 is day 1 DLC that apparently adds a vital character who provides tons of backstory and is quite important overall, ive decided not to buy ME3. Ive no problem with crappy day 1 DLC like costumes or even extra missions that are optional, but leaving out something thats apparently really quite a big deal just to scrounge and extra 6 euro out of the player? GET TAE ****
As for the significance of the DLC, the actual race of the character is quite central to the lore of the game, however if you had played the previous games in the series you'd know they really shouldn't exist and that its mere presence is more along the lines of fan service than anything of importance. That's also ignoring the fact that neither its mission nor presence in the game is vital in the slightest.0 -
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ShadowHearth wrote: »Cod elite made it and got away with it, now will go dice, then another big name etc. in near future any game you will pick up will be subscription based. I personally have a lot of games, but I jump between them. There is no way I could afford subing for even 4-5 of them that I play regularly.
They are trying out how thin ice is. They make it look that subscription will be only for additional content now. Then they will try out ice on full monthly sub for online. We all know how it works.
Good point. Look how the last subscription based system worked with MMO's. It's all free to play now. I doubt this experiment will last.
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Well there's basics stats which should be included in games, say for instance the older Call Of Duty titles, and then there's stuff like heat maps for levels and other web-based visual feedback based on metrics in the game. I'd argue that these are a significant investment for a developer and could command an additional cost. On the other hand, when you're dealing with a game with such a hugely popular and important multiplayer fanbase, it would be a wortwhile investment in order to keep your title on top and as such, should be included for free. Of course, the paid version of Elite offers a bunch of other content too, official tournaments with prizes, more regular content in the form of MP maps and Spec Ops content and "Call Of Duty TV". As I said above, none of this content particuarly interests me and even if it did, I'd probably prefer to buy said content individually when it I want it. 1.5 million people seem to disagree me with me though.
Aye, you mentioned that before. Only problem is a bunch of people disagreed with you and found the alternate endings from the DLC to be sub-par. So, who's right?
I was actually going to use Dead Space as an example of an EA game where a subscription simply wouldn't work. What could they add for instance? More multiplayer maps? More skins? More weapons? Additional story-based animated movies?
But why would they bother? Dead Space 2 multiplayer wasn't exactly welcomed by fans of the franchise. The numbers playing it have dwindled to pretty much an insignificant number so there's no point in spending time working on additional content for that. And movies? Why would they not release them on DVD and Bluray when the two out so far have been extremely well received, both critically and commerically?
On this very thread last night we had people claiming the developers had lied, the content was all on the disc and wasn't it great that they had been found out. Of course, this completely ignored the fact that all of the content wasn't on the disc and what the developers had said about the development of the DLC was completely true. In fact, I'd wager that if you visited more forums even today, you'd still have plenty of people claiming all the content was finished in time and is all on the disc.
As for the significance of the DLC, the actual race of the character is quite central to the lore of the game, however if you had played the previous games in the series you'd know they really shouldn't exist and that its mere presence is more along the lines of fan service than anything of importance. That's also ignoring the fact that neither its mission nor presence in the game is vital in the slightest.
For a start the fact that the ME3 DLC character is on the disc but the DLC mission has to be downloaded just means EA learned from the crapfest that came out when the Bioshock 2 DLC was found out to be on the disc. There is no reason to have just the DLC character and sound files on the release disc at all.
Also while the DLC mission itself is tiny, the back ground that is covered in it plays a huge part towards the end of the story in that it gives pretty important information about the Reapers that otherwise comes totally out of the blue to players who didn't buy the DLC.
You even agree the DLC character shouldn't exist from a lore point of view yet you seem to believe every word as 100% truth from a company that would pull such a money grabbing stunt :rolleyes:0 -
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Yes, there is. As has been explained by Bioware staff and a bunch of other devs over the last couple of years, towards the end of the development cycle, a stage known as "Content Complete" is hit. At this point all of the art assets for the final game should be in place and ready to ship. Awhile later "Code Complete" is hit which is the same for code. Finally you get to the Certification process where the final game goes off for platform holder testing and then after that, pending further bug fixes, pressing. In the case of Mass Effect 3, the character DLC would have been finalised between Content Complete and Certification, otherwise the artists would have been either twiddling their thumbs, moved onto another project or just sacked. There would also, of course, be code support of these characters, just like for the other ones in the game. This is why those files will be on the disc. The actual mission files and code support for them would have been added after this and wouldn't have made it in time for manufacturing.For a start the fact that the ME3 DLC character is on the disc but the DLC mission has to be downloaded just mean EA learned from the crapfest that came out when the Bioshock 2 DLC was found out to be on the disc. There is no reason to have just the DLC character and sound files on the release disc at all.
As for the Bioshock 2 comment. Well again there's a perfectly reasonable technical explanation for this. When playing against someone online, you need to have the same content as them otherwise how would the player who doesn't have the content actually see it? The patching and content distribution process on the consoles is, as Tim Schafer pointed out recently, not only complex but expensive. He estimated it would cost DoubleFine about $40k to go through it. Bearing these two points in mind, as well as the fact that the additional costumes and characters for that DLC would probably have fallen into the same catagory as the ME3 stuff, it made perfect sense for the content to be on the disc.
Of course, the gaming media just went OMG THE CONTENT IS ON THE DISC, SOMEONE GRAB THE PITCHFORKS and gamers happily went along for the ride without actually sitting down and thinking about it.
While I haven't gotten that far yet, that is contrary to pretty much every user review I've seen thus far. The race is significant, his contribution to the game is not.Also while the DLC mission itself is tiny, the back ground that is covered in it plays a huge part towards the end of the story in that it gives pretty important information about the Reapers that otherwise comes totally out of the blue to players who didn't buy the DLC.
For 27 years Superman was deemed the last survivor of Krypton too after, you know, the entire planet blew up. Then in 1959 Supergirl was created. Things change.You even agree the DLC character shouldn't exist from a lore point of view yet you seem to believe every word as 100% truth from a company that would pull such a money grabbing stunt :rolleyes:
And I'm not believing every word from the company, they're just confirming what I already know about how the process works.
HL1 and 2 took you days to complete?System shock 1+2
Unreal
Farcry 1+2
Doom 3
Quake 2
HL1+2
Crysis
Halo
All those games took me a few days to complete unlike the few hours that MW1+2+3, Rage and other newer FPS games seem to take.
You felt like it was €60 down the drain because the game didn't come with a fully featured cheat mode? Really?As for the last game where I felt like it was 60e down the drain, that would be Saints Row 3. I finish an open world game and would like to now mess around with some cheats but shock horror - the cheats are a DLC pack that had to be bought. And that pretty much has guaranteed that I will never ever buy another Saints Row, and am seriously considering giving future THQ/Volition titles a miss.
On a series note, I can see a reason for that. A cheat mode in an open world game would be an utter nightmare to test for and ensure stability. The problem here is that the platform holders will not allow you to release a game or patch which crashes. When you start messing with a physics engine in a gmae like Saints Row and start having huge explosions, things can get messy. It wouldn't be a case of just toggling a few cheats, it would require some pretty rigorous control. Bearing this in mind, I can imagine a decent bit of time was spent getting this ready. Now, as I said above, a publisher/developer could charge for this. They have, after all, spent more time and money getting it ready however, as I said in a previous post, at some stage they should just suck it up and offer it to users as a thank you, perhaps those who bought the game new, as a thank you. So, are they being greedy? Not really. Are they giving customers that little extra? No. Solution: If you don't like being treated that way, don't buy the DLC. Tell your friends not to buy the DLC. And as you said, ask yourself whether you want to buy future games in the series.
EDIT: Oh yea, forgot about another point too. Do bear in mind that MS will not allow devs to release additional content on XBL for free. See the various Valve games released on consoles for more examples of this. This wouldn't apply to SR3 of course since they still charged £1.99 for it on Steam where no such restriction applies. 0 -
You felt like it was €60 down the drain because the game didn't come with a fully featured cheat mode? Really?
On a series note, I can see a reason for that. A cheat mode in an open world game would be an utter nightmare to test for and ensure stability. The problem here is that the platform holders will not allow you to release a game or patch which crashes. When you start messing with a physics engine in a gmae like Saints Row and start having huge explosions, things can get messy. It wouldn't be a case of just toggling a few cheats, it would require some pretty rigorous control. Bearing this in mind, I can imagine a decent bit of time was spent getting this ready. Now, as I said above, a publisher/developer could charge for this. They have, after all, spent more time and money getting it ready however, as I said in a previous post, at some stage they should just suck it up and offer it to users as a thank you, perhaps those who bought the game new, as a thank you. So, are they being greedy? Not really. Are they giving customers that little extra? No. Solution: If you don't like being treated that way, don't buy the DLC. Tell your friends not to buy the DLC. And as you said, ask yourself whether you want to buy future games in the series.
EDIT: Oh yea, forgot about another point too. Do bear in mind that MS will not allow devs to release additional content on XBL for free. See the various Valve games released on consoles for more examples of this. This wouldn't apply to SR3 of course since they still charged £1.99 for it on Steam where no such restriction applies.
GTA4 had cheats. So did Saints Row 1 & 2. Nothing but greed to blame for the fact they had a price tag in SR3. However, I'd estimate they have lost about €180-€240+ of future sales (depending on titles released which I'd have any interest in) from me alone. Now if there's many more people with a similar view to me, that's a pretty big ****ing mistake.0 -
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GTAIV had a development budget the size of a small countries GDP, it's not really a fair comparison. It is true that Saints Row 1 & 2 had cheats though, perhaps I wasn't clear, if they did purposefully cut the cheat mode then yes, it's pure greed but there are other factors to consider. Given the fact that the scale of the game was reduced over SR2, perhaps their budget was reduced? Maybe they were falling behind in development and couldn't afford to extend it anymore? It's not like THQ are exactly rolling in cash and since SR3 was one of their few big sellers during the year and they needed it out for the holidays, one of the above explanations is certainly plausible.GTA4 had cheats. So did Saints Row 1 & 2. Nothing but greed to blame for the fact they had a price tag in SR3. However, I'd estimate they have lost about €180-€240+ of future sales (depending on titles released which I'd have any interest in) from me alone. Now if there's many more people with a similar view to me, that's a pretty big ****ing mistake.
Well a) I am playing the game and b) I specifically referred to the myriad of user reviews I'd read, not least a bunch of references to it on Boards, not my own opinion on it. If it turns out that it's significant then I'm quite sure you'll see my furious reply on the ME3 thread. In fact, if you look back you'll see an earlier post of mine where I was angry with it, then I read said reviews.1. Maybe YOU should play the game before YOU comment on what's true or not.
2. The DLC mission can be done right from the start of the game once you get control of the ship and can pick where you wish to go so again stop commenting on things you don't know about.
3. The DLC character tells youthat his people believed the Reapers are in fact being controlled by someone/somethingwhich is a huge deal considering what the player learned in ME1+2. 0 -
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Its not all F2p. WoW is still the market leader and has a subscription fee even tho its lost a few million subs over the last year. GW2 is the only new big name MMO coming out that is B2P as The Secret World is both subscription + cash shop and I'v heard nothing regarding Tera.
The only MMO's that go F2P are really old ones EQ2 and LOTRO or the likes of AoC, Warhammer, CO, STO, DCU and Aion which all crashed and burned at release due to being for the most part utter crap.
Well lets see how long any new subscription based MMO's last before they go F2P as well. Star Wars and WoW are the last of a dying breed and from what I've heard on RPG podcasts I'm not the only one that thinks so.
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Having worked on engines doing this in the past, I can tell you for certain it is not bs.hightower1 wrote: »Thats total BS, you have marginal extra coding for cheats. Your simply re assigning already in game assests and at worst utilizing the physics engine to high levels. EG gta4 infinte RPGs, the physics engine was already coded to handle the objects being flung about by and RPG the volume of those calculations doesnt matter.
The only time a cheat requires signifigant coding is when the cheat involves gameplay , objects or features that were not included in the main game bacuase it means you hav to code specifically for the new assets , features or gameplay.
While the user probably realises this, and they'd be quite correct to do so, it will more than likely fail certification when passed to the platform holders. This is why it would need additional levels of work and stress testing.hightower1 wrote: »Also anyone enabling a cheat on a game knows you may end up with glitches already, thats why most wait until the game is complete to do so.
I certainly agree with the last bit, the required time should have been allowed during the main development to ship this with the game and not leave it for DLC, just like they did with the previous games. I've given you the technical reasoning but I can only make assumptions as to others. For all I know a decision was made to cut it, I'm just not sure enough to start calling them greedy bastards.hightower1 wrote: »SR2 having cheats as DLC is a cash grab from a failing developer trying to claw back money from one of (if not its biggest) titles of that year and frankly it didnt work. They marketed the living sh1te out of that game and it didnt do stellar sales at all. THQ are gone by years end and hopefully other companies will see that practices like that just dont work.
EDIT: I'd be perfectly happy to discuss who I do think are greedy bastards though if you'd like. :pac:0 -
Angry joe is pretty well...ANGRY the fact with Capcom lock on disk content with Street Fighter x Tekken
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richymcdermott wrote: »Angry joe is pretty well...ANGRY the fact with Capcom lock on disk content with Street Fighter x Tekken
I'm all falavoured off pissed off about this myself too (and I'm sure there'll be some venting on my behalf on our next podcast). Ive been a Street Fighter fan since the arcade days, and I genuinely feel cheated with this. My retort? Buy the game second hand as a big Feck You to Capcom!0 -
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