Tank freeze - My initial thoughts as a BC

Nody

These are my initial thoughts as a BC; it does not mean it's how I'll play things or how things will play out in practice.

Maus - Can be substituted by T95 and E100s so should be ok (we run limited numbers of them in most tactics today)

T30s - Can be substituted by JT, T30 (TD) and we run limited numbers; once again should be ok

IS-7 - We run 6 t0 8 IS-7s per map and there is no clear substitute. At the moment I'm thinking 704s, M110s, T30s and possibly E100s depending on map

Arty - Arty can go down to T7 and we usually have spare arty so should be ok but not ideal as with the freeze period we may run low on arty as well

Batchat - AMX 13 90 has 16h cooldown; it will be the main replacement

Mediums - Everyone has one so should be fine :P

As noted my biggest issue as BC looks to be IS-7s to be honest; Mauses will run low but we should have decent alternatives to cover it.IS-7s on the other hand is harder; the replacement while higher DPS has lower health and worse armor and/or don't have the speed.

phil3995

We shouldn't have too much of an issue then, we may have to come up with a few more imaginative tactics if we run out of IS-7s though.

cro_bully

Can maybe the new tier ten american maybe replace the is-7? I heard that it's fairly good ( is it T110 or M110?)

Nody

cro_bully wrote: »

Can maybe the new tier ten american maybe replace the is-7? I heard that it's fairly good ( is it T110 or M110?)

Speed but not armor is the main issue but it is one of the substitutes I got listed. Same with the T30 (TD) and 704 but they are the closest alternatives I can see for it.

Another seperate problem will be that we'll be able to play more than 1 map per night if we got land with normal tanks (most likely the defensive one at that as it is lowest risk game). The reason beeing we can't afford to lose tanks so beyond that it will be T8 heavy/mediums and T6/7 arty + 5 scouts type of deals instead as everyone are not on every night (i.e. even if player A's tanks is unfroozen if they are not on we can't count on it being there the next night for defence).

ZZR1100

its going to be interesting to say the least if we hold a number of provences. trying to defend from multiple attacks and attacking other provences ourselves.
i think we should give up the landing zone without even trying as it will be impossible to hold as we will face a full strength team every night. it is differant inland as the other clans will have to watch their tank numbers as well.
people definatly need to buy back their T9s / T8s to gives us a big enough pool to be able to attack as well as defend.
Also the global map needs to monitored very closely noting which clans have been attacked by others the previous night/nights which might open up an easy capture for us.

Nody

Problem with buying back T8/T9 is not only the cost doing so (3.5 Mil for a T9 for example) but the crew (esp. with all new skills coming out). I know my T9 crew members in general sits in my T10 tanks now. Hence the need to grind up at least two or three skills on a new crew

ZZR1100

Nody wrote: »

Problem with buying back T8/T9 is not only the cost doing so (3.5 Mil for a T9 for example) but the crew (esp. with all new skills coming out). I know my T9 crew members in general sits in my T10 tanks now. Hence the need to grind up at least two or three skills on a new crew

yep. i know what you mean. just when i thought the grinding was almost over (french) , they come along and introduce new crew skills and tank freezing
there is lot of bitching on the forum about the tank freezing, but on the russian forum 55% support it after 3 months

Nody

Lets talk some new tactics that now come to mind not using T10 tanks (or very limited capacity). Reason I'm not using T9 Heavies is because I'm looking at new tactics rather then subbing in for T10 tactics

Sandriver - 8 T6 arty, 5 mediums, 2 TD on base defence
Plan is simple, mediums spread out and scout arount, the T6 arty should have decent reload time and rain down focused fire damage on enemy tanks

Tebessa - 7 mediums, 3 AMX 13 90 push via river / north ridge with 4 arty support and 1 E100 in base, scout for arty and focus fire on anything sticking out with some quick arty spotting/killing

Tebessa - 8 TDs (704s/T30s), 2 AMX 13 90 push, 3 arty support, 2 E100 on base defence, pretend they are heavies and go for it

Abbey - 2 AMX 13 90 goes top (go arty hunting once push is shown), 12 TDs push below abbey at 13 min mark, 1 base defender of choice

What most of these tactics rely on is the bigger guns on the TDs to compensate for lack of armor. This only works in a tank vs tank scenario; if arties they will die a lot faster...

Dublin_Gunner

I've been having a think about this myself, and I'd like to add that I'm very annoyed at wargaming for the length of the lock outs they've enforced for T10 heavy's. 7 days is stupid.

But anyway.

We should maybe look at reducing the T10 count in ALL CW teams, in order to give each a balance.

I'm most worried about land defence now TBH - this will end up bordering on the impossible after a few days of defending.

For instance - should we use the usuall 140~ point team for the first day defence, we can really only afford to do that for 2, maybe 3 days, after which we'll be REALLY screwed.

Those with T8 arty - I'd urge to purchase the T7 and 6 arty back if you had sold them, and get grinding up other arty trees!

The likes of myself - I'm now really forced to start grinding up another heavy tree.

I'll have my IS-4 back in a couple of days, so that will be another T10 in a while too.

Maybe tonight we should all have a chat and organise our strategy for land defence.

Should we leave attacking other land for 2/3 days - knowing the other land owners may be getting short on T10's to field for defence?

Fionn Mc Coule

E75 and IS4s should be kept now by all that have them, tell everyone in clan not to sell them to buy T10s as in the long run it will be more beneficial. 4 e75s on base defense with 7 IS4s on a push 3 arty and a med, that would cause any team a problem on Tabessa.

On sand river is4s mixed with IS7s would do same job as is done now only difference is the new t110 is more than capable of going in that group now than the t30 was, so any mix there will do. and again i would be using E75s in place of maus or e100s

A T95 or more i say would be more than sufficient on sand river for def but i think the only way to use them on tabessa would b in pairs sitting back to back behind rocks at ridge.

Dublin_Gunner

Fionn Mc Coule wrote: »

E75 and IS4s should be kept now by all that have them, tell everyone in clan not to sell them to buy T10s as in the long run it will be more beneficial. 4 e75s on base defense with 7 IS4s on a push 3 arty and a med, that would cause any team a problem on Tabessa.

On sand river is4s mixed with IS7s would do same job as is done now only difference is the new t110 is more than capable of going in that group now than the t30 was, so any mix there will do. and again i would be using E75s in place of maus or e100s

A T95 or more i say would be more than sufficient on sand river for def but i think the only way to use them on tabessa would b in pairs sitting back to back behind rocks at ridge.

Definitely agree. In fact we shoudl start mixing the tier 9's in straight away IMO.

On the IS4 mixed with IS7 note - while I agree 80%, the IS-4 really lacks the speed of the IS-7, but has the same gun, and excellent armour.

I would actually consider IS-4's for base defence.

What ya think?

ZZR1100

As i was saying earlier dub . you cant defend the landing zone, so its better to give it up now and put all our chips on attack. tonight if possible as the tank freezing dosnt start until tommorrow. if we secure land tonight, we still have a full team to defend anything we take.

Dublin_Gunner

ZZR1100 wrote: »

As i was saying earlier dub . you cant defend the landing zone, so its better to give it up now and put all our chips on attack. tonight if possible as the tank freezing dosnt start until tommorrow. if we secure land tonight, we still have a full team to defend anything we take.

CW isn't back until tomorrow, that's the problem.

I'm looking a bit further forward you see.

We could skip CW for 3/4 days - then attack whatever landing zone we want, hopefully a lot of clans will have a lot of their tanks frozen.

Also, with our tanks already on Tebessa - if we attack another land and take it - we will have a LOT less tanks available to defend it going forward.

Am I right in thinking that the lockout doesn't apply in landing battle tournaments - only if you own land, or get to the battle with the owner?

DesperateCry

I have a suggestion;

We should have 1-2 joker members, whose tanks we will not use for everyday, but only when they are needed on later days, when we are low on high tier tanks.

It can be some tanks of a member (for example; artilerry of Bruffio) or all tanks of someone.

Dublin_Gunner

DesperateCry wrote: »

I have a suggestion;

We should have 1-2 joker members, whose tanks we will not use for everyday, but only when they are needed on later days, when we are low on high tier tanks.

It can be some tanks of a member (for example; artilerry of Bruffio) or all tanks of someone.

I don't follow?

DesperateCry

These members (or certain tanks of them) will not join our daily attacks/base defenses with their highest tier (or choosen) tanks.

Let's say, we are pretty low on high tier tanks on a day for a final battle. Then, this one who has not been using his t10/t8arty will be asked to get his tank for the battle.

We'll keep some high tier tanks as spare, sitting on the side for desperate times

Dublin_Gunner

DesperateCry wrote: »

These members (or certain tanks of them) will not join our daily attacks/base defenses with their highest tier (or choosen) tanks.

Let's say, we are pretty low on high tier tanks on a day for a final battle. Then, this one who has not been using his t10/t8arty will be asked to get his tank for the battle.

We'll keep some high tier tanks as spare, sitting on the side for desperate times

Well I think you can take that idea as a given!

Also - no harm in a few lads who might no be around giving some of us their account details to use their tanks!

cro_bully

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Also - no harm in a few lads who might no be around giving some of us their account details to use their tanks!

well xperiaboros knows my account details and i know his

Nody

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

We could skip CW for 3/4 days - then attack whatever landing zone we want, hopefully a lot of clans will have a lot of their tanks frozen.

I expect most clans will go for napping instead; only way to know is to keep track of who's been involved in fights.

Also, with our tanks already on Tebessa - if we attack another land and take it - we will have a LOT less tanks available to defend it going forward.

Defence of a landing zone should be T9 tanks/T7 arty; it should not be primary tanks.

Am I right in thinking that the lockout doesn't apply in landing battle tournaments - only if you own land, or get to the battle with the owner?

Correct; which means most teams will field a proper team winning the land and be neutered in their defences later on...

ZZR1100

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

CW isn't back until tomorrow, that's the problem.


Am I right in thinking that the lockout doesn't apply in landing battle tournaments - only if you own land, or get to the battle with the owner?

lockout applies to battle with owner. so any tanks you lose are locked out whether you win the land or not.

Dublin_Gunner

ZZR1100 wrote: »

lockout applies to battle with owner. so any tanks you lose are locked out whether you win the land or not.

Yeah I got that, but the lockout doesn't apply to landing battle tournaments, that's what I wanted confirmed!

Nody

ZZR1100 wrote: »

lockout applies to battle with owner. so any tanks you lose are locked out whether you win the land or not.

But they are available in the tourney leading up to the land battle (which will have some fun effects as the team that took you to the landing battle now can't fight as half their tanks are locked out :rolleyes: ).

BIE.Ryaner

1 of many possible plans:
use high tier heavies, with not so high arty, start raising the arty level as the heavies start to dry up. As I said before the level 5 scout with high arty is a tactic that has beaten us a few times, but with tank freezing it becomes a decent strategy we could use ourselves.

It's a real grind inducer though. I can see the theory behind it maybe having some merit but the truth is it's just widening the gap between casual players and the more hardcore/paying players. Although a tier eight now might get a CW match which wouldn't have happened before. Meh, we'll see I suppose.

Fionn Mc Coule

ZZR1100 wrote: »

As i was saying earlier dub . you cant defend the landing zone, so its better to give it up now and put all our chips on attack. tonight if possible as the tank freezing dosnt start until tommorrow. if we secure land tonight, we still have a full team to defend anything we take.

I agree with you but i would defend it fiercely until new land is won, then id let it go.

ZZR1100

Fionn Mc Coule wrote: »

I agree with you but i would defend it fiercely until new land is won, then id let it go.

unfortunatly , its one or the other. you cant afford to use your best tanks defending the landing as they will get locked. we need to gamble and go for as many provences around us as we can tommorrow night and use our best tanks doing so. hopefully we win land. if we do, we have a far better chance of holding onto it as every1 around us are hurting too. we then need to just concentrate on defending it for a week until all our tier 10s are back.
If we use our best tanks defending the landing , we will last only a few nights at best as a full team will be contesting the landing every night.

zil

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/103483-tank-locking/

Dublin_Gunner

zil wrote: »

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/103483-tank-locking/

WTF.

Half the US players don't even know what it is.

Why the hell are they getting away without it?

Smiles35

Some intense reaction on the wot forum.

I don't give you my money IF YOU STEAL WHAT'S MINE. You dont take what's mine and get away with it. I will spend all my time repeating this to the entire EURO server if necessary.

NOBODY forces me to do something against my will. You don't steal my tanks just cause you want me to grind more and spend more money, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ?

DesperateCry

Don't drink and write :P

Auvers

Smell Badda wrote: »

Some intense reaction on the wot forum.