Permanent Defence Forces Recruitment 2015

RedWolfCQB

feeney92 wrote: »

6 months total training from civvy to 3 star

Thanks for the reply. I believe to whittle down the numbers they are using a bell graph curve. Anyone have a clue how that works? Probably the top scorers of a certain percentage get called for an interview, I think alot of people think its a matter of pass or fail.

billy few mates

What it basically means is that the way the test is designed a very small group of people will fail it miserably and a very small group of people will get it 100% right, the vast majority will get something in between and when you graph the results the graph will take the form of a bell shape.
Its not a case that they will automatically select the people who only scored 100%, this would make no sense. Previous recruitment campaigns have resulted in a high number of drop outs during basic training, these tests are designed to try and identify not only the most suitable candidates for the positions but crucially the most suitable candidates who are most likely to 'stay the distance'.
The results of these tests will be used in conjunction with an interview to assess which of the candidates tick both these boxes. These tests is used properly will identify which candidates really want to join the army and make a career out of it and which candidates are only applying because there's nothing else out there or until something better comes along.
Remember there are already 8000+ people in the permanent defence forces and most of them will not have had to go through this type of testing. Its not the 'be all and end all' off selection processes and is really only of value when used in conjunction with other more traditional selection processes, despite what the consultants tell you....

Brad Pittman

So are you trying to say even if you got every question correct, you still mightn't get to the next stage? Because of this bell graph? How can they tell you can go the distance by the aptitude test? I taught that was why we are being interviewed, so that they can access us?

And surely by already having a job, and still applying for the Army/Navy it shows you want it. Even if you end up getting paid less, and being away from your home for weeks on end

not_a_robot

The type of aptitude test used in the Defence Forces for general service is not one that evaluates your ability to "go the distance" or your suitability for the job. That is determined 100% by the career orientation section in the interview. The psychometric test is used to determine a basic level of intelligence that is required to do the job. It's useful due to the spectrum of candidates that apply i.e from school leavers who maybe only ever completed to JC to people with degrees, as it's a fair way to compare all candidates comprehension abilities within a time limit, and everyone has an equal shot. If you got 100% of the questions right, it would only effect the bell curve in that you are setting the top standard for the curve. For example if a very large number of people did very well, there would be a very high average score for that group and the standard scores that progress would be in turn be high. The same way if everyone fared really badly, it is possible to go through as long as you were not among the worst scores. If a bell curve graph is used, your position in the competition is wholly dependant on how well you did in comparison to everyone else, as everyones score is compared against the top scoring candidate to give them a percentile rank. So someone in the 70th percentile is in the top 30% of scores, 60th percentile means they're in the top 40% etc etc.

billy few mates

So are you trying to say even if you got every question correct, you still mightn't get to the next stage?

No, you probably will get to the next stage but they will then look at other factors for deciding your suitability.
For example, somebody from a certain background who scores highly on the test and maybe has a fairly decent leaving cert behind them may be viewed as someone who probably has (or should have) ambitions to achieve more than what this position entails. The interviewers will have to decide will they be able to complete the training and if they do will they stick with it. Some people will have no idea what army life entails and will not be able to put up with some aspects of it, the interview team will by trying to identify these people before they waste a place on the course. Your score test will not tell them this information.
Without trying to appear flippant or disrespectful but If I were interviewing, I'd be asking will someone with 500 points on their leaving cert, with no military background, who maybe isn't a member of the RDF (or on the waiting list to join) really want to be sitting in a wet foxhole in the Wicklow mountains on a November night being yelled at by some Corporal from Ballymun who probably doesn't have 50 points on his leaving cert...?

Some years ago when I was involved in recruiting for some qualified technicians in my industry (aviation) we were inundated with applicants who were over qualified for the job. Some people had masters degrees in aeronautical engineering etc, we immediately ruled out these individuals because (from experience) we knew they were looking for 'a stepping stone' to the industry and also that very few of them make the transition to the 'hands on' side of the industry with any success.
We also used a psychometric element in the recruitment process but we abandoned it fairly quickly when we realised that for some unknown reason it seemed to be ruling out several of the candidates who we knew from early on were exactly the type of person that we're looking for.
Like most exams, a high score in a psychometric test shows nothing more than an aptitude for 'psychometric tests', unfortunately a whole industry has sprung up out of recruitment and tests like this are a natural by product of this industry. They might be useful for some things but by themselves they're practically meaningless....

beco2010

I have said befor on this thread that the psychometric tests were not a great way to deal with recruitment just the fast way.I agree with the above persons statment. I think every part of the recruitment process would be a better way of scoring. Getting marks for every stage fitness marked 1 to whatever still keeping it pass or fail,the exam marked to your grade, and then the interview. Then all this to be taken into acount the poeple at the top get called to the medical. I think this would be fair and also produce the best candidate

Brad Pittman

I understand your points, but being in the RDF, or being on the waiting list, is it really a necessity when it comes to the interview? I know it will be looked on favourably, but surely being in constant employment, and by having your own important responsibilities at your own job is just as good.

I'm after applying for the Navy only, and I think there are only 200 Naval Reserve in Ireland, so a military background will be a huge bonus to applicants, but they will probably need other types of experience to back up their application.

mufcboy1999

I didn't get all the questions finished on both the numerical and the comprehension, will this dent my chances of getting through to the next stage ?

Also why on earth for a physical job is there more emphasis on this test than the actual fitness test ?

Cheers

billy few mates

I wouldn't worry about it MUFCboy, they're using an aptitude 'speed test'....

http://www.psychometric-success.com/faq/faq-numerical-reasoning-tests.htm

This is best explained as follows: there are basically two types of numerical questions that appear in psychometric tests. Speed questions are so easy that with unlimited time most people taking the test could answer them all successfully. However, the time allowed to complete the test is so short that even the most able person is not expected to finish. This means that the result depends on the number of correct answers made in the relatively short
time allowed.

If you finished well and good, if you didn't it wouldn't normally be a 'deal breaker'. Up until Saturday afternoon the percentage of people not finishing the test was somewhere between 35-40%.

Also why on earth for a physical job is there more emphasis on this test than the actual fitness test ?

That is not actually the case, there is more emphasis on the physical test (if you fail it you're gone), they didn't record your individual times, you either finished or you didn't.
The psychometric tests are just a metric they use to compare the individual performances of a large group of candidates. They shouldn't be used in isolation to arrive at a conclusion as they are not an exact science, somebody fresh out of school who's just finished their leaving cert would be expected to perform better that somebody who left education
several years ago. They also know the results can be spurious because they're not a true reflection of a person's true ability because of the fact that the tests are quite often found in the public domain and many organisations run intensive training courses in how to 'pass' these tests.
There's no army in the world that chooses its fighting force based on the outcome of a 'multi-guess' questionaire, there's no reason to believe the Irsh Army would be any different.....

Donny5

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Also why on earth for a physical job is there more emphasis on this test than the actual fitness test ?

They can make you fitter. They can't make you smarter.

mufcboy1999

Donny5 wrote: »

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Also why on earth for a physical job is there more emphasis on this test than the actual fitness test ?

They can make you fitter. They can't make you smarter.

tell that to the thousands returning to education !

CIGANO

Brad Pittman wrote: »

I understand your points, but being in the RDF, or being on the waiting list, is it really a necessity when it comes to the interview? I know it will be looked on favourably, but surely being in constant employment, and by having your own important responsibilities at your own job is just as good.

I'm after applying for the Navy only, and I think there are only 200 Naval Reserve in Ireland, so a military background will be a huge bonus to applicants, but they will probably need other types of experience to back up their application.

Being in the RDF shows you have experience of military life which is something you dont get from having another type of job. The military life isn't hard per se but it does take a certain type of person to stick it, which is why some recruits and cadets leave with in the first week of training because it just isn't for them, being in the RDF is no guarantee that the person will be able to stick the 16 weeks but it is look at favourably because the person isn't going into the job with their eyes as closed as the other civvies applying.

billy few mates

but being in the RDF, or being on the waiting list, is it really a necessity when it comes to the interview?

Not unless your interviewer asks you something like this...

"So, if you really really want to join the Defence Forces how come you haven't joined the RDF....?".....

Local-womanizer

billy few mates wrote: »

but being in the RDF, or being on the waiting list, is it really a necessity when it comes to the interview?

Not unless your interviewer asks you something like this...

"So, if you really really want to join the Defence Forces how come you haven't joined the RDF....?".....

My civilian employment was too time intensive to let me apply myself to a military career in the RDF.

I believe with me applying for the PDF and the fact I am willing to leave my job in civvie street, it shows I want a career in the DF etc etc

It would help but if you are in the RDF and make a balls of the interview it won't help you.

billy few mates

It sounds like you're desperate to leave your current job, can you tell me why that is....?
Is it because it leaves you so little free time, you don't have time for any outside activities like the RDF?
The PDF requires a lot more commitment than many civilian jobs with extended periods of overseas duties, how do you know you you won't feel the same way about military life after a few months? After all with no RDF experience, you don't really know what you're letting yourself in for....:eek:

(That's the interviewer asking those questions by the way, not me....:))

Brad Pittman

Having a good employment record shows that your willing to work, well motivated, able follow orders, and work as a team. Perfect for the defence forces. I doubt the RDF even go over sea's, so everyone is going to be in the same boat.

When it come's to the interview, and if you have good scenarios, good knowledge of the defence forces and if you can prove your motivation, and determination for the job then you have as good a chance as anyone. Obviously being in the RDF is a huge bonus, but if you are relying on that only, then you could be in trouble.

The interviewer is going to test our character and motivation, and teamwork is going to be really important.

The training is going to be really difficult for everyone. Sporting backgrounds will be looked on favourably in the interview. Having underage all-Ireland medals etc. will be really impressive. Even RDF members will find training tough considering it will be on a daily basis as opposed to a few days a month.

alley2020

Does anyone know when the interviews are starting? Is it still the 17th July?

alan86

On the IDF website it says anyone under 17 and over 25 wont be left go any further in the comp. I applyed for the navy and i am 26 next week dose that mean i am out.

RedWolfCQB

alley2020 wrote: »

Does anyone know when the interviews are starting? Is it still the 17th July?

well the results for the psychometric test are out on the 20th so it'll be after that at least

Donny5

alan86 wrote: »

On the IDF website it says anyone under 17 and over 25 wont be left go any further in the comp. I applyed for the navy and i am 26 next week dose that mean i am out.

Yes.

alan86

Why have they left me go this far if they know i will be too old. I know a few felas who did the phycometric test last week who are already 26.

Donny5

alan86 wrote: »

Why have they left me go this far if they know i will be too old. I know a few felas who did the phycometric test last week who are already 26.

Is this for enlisted or a Cadetship?

alan86

Recruit

Donny5

alan86 wrote: »

Recruit

Then I've no idea why they let go forward with the tests. You are too old.

Actually, let me check this for you. You would be too old for the Army, but I don't know about the Naval Service.

not_a_robot

The upper age limit for Naval Recruits is 26 i.e you have to be 26 or under on the day you enlist. You can't be 27. You're still eligible to be a Naval Service Recruit, but not an Army Recruit.

alan86

I knew i was to old for the army but the age limit for the navy was 26 i am just wondering have they changed it to 25. I will email them so i should hopefully know in the morning. Thanks.

not_a_robot

You're grand for the Navy anyway!

billy few mates

Is this something that has recently changed....?

What were the age limits originally...?

alan86

not_a_robot wrote: »

The upper age limit for Naval Recruits is 26 i.e you have to be 26 or under on the day you enlist. You can't be 27. You're still eligible to be a Naval Service Recruit, but not an Army Recruit.

I knew that its just on the website it now says over 25 for the whole copetition. If they have changed it i will get sick.

Donny5

not_a_robot wrote: »

The upper age limit for Naval Recruits is 26 i.e you have to be 26 or under on the day you enlist. You can't be 27. You're still eligible to be a Naval Service Recruit, but not an Army Recruit.

alan86 wrote: »

I knew i was to old for the army but the age limit for the navy was 26 i am just wondering have they changed it to 25. I will email them so i should hopefully know in the morning. Thanks.

Yup, just checked and not_a_robot is right. I wouldn't put too much trust in the website, as it still has the lower age limit down as 17, when it's been raised to 18. To be 100%, call your manpower office.