Shooting on private land with restricted firearm

tomwalsh

Hi all, long time scourer of this forum but finally registered to ask this question:
Can I shoot a restricted firearm on private land if there is no special condition on my grant letter that prohibits it?
Also from my reading of the various firearms acts a more than 10 round magazine for a .22 semi auto is restricted, so i could get one unrestricted with a 10 round mag legally but i get a 20/30 round mag and its automatically a restricted and therefore unlicensed firearm??
All seems a bit mad :mad:

Sparks

When you say shoot, do you mean hunt or to shoot at targets? If the former, then yes; if the latter, then no unless it's an authorised range (and the daft thing is that zeroing counts as target shooting under the Act).

And yes, the magazine capacity can push an unrestricted rifle into being restricted.

tomwalsh

Alrighty, so if i take a few shots at paper at home to zero my sight then its illegal but putting a .223 into a fox in a non lethal spot because i couldnt zero is legal, good lord :mad::mad:

Dont suppose theres any provision for a private authorised range?

Sparks

tomwalsh wrote: »

Alrighty, so if i take a few shots at paper at home to zero my sight then its illegal but putting a .223 into a fox in a non lethal spot because i couldnt zero is legal, good lord :mad::mad:

Yup. Though you could be done for animal cruelty for the fox.

Dont suppose theres any provision for a private authorised range?

Every authorised range is technically private. But there's no specific exemption for someone's own personal, nobody-else-allowed-to-shoot-here type of range...

juice1304

you can set up a private range but you would have to comply to the regulations and it would have to be inspected by the DoJ.

tomwalsh

Hmmm, interesting. Must look into that so, would the dreaded planning permission be involved? :eek:

Sorry, just occured to me, is it illegal to shoot targets with an unrestricted gun?
Yeah, i know im just clutching at straws at this point....

Sparks

tomwalsh wrote: »

Hmmm, interesting. Must look into that so, would the dreaded planning permission be involved? :eek:

I *think* so... but I'm not sure. rrpc on here would know.

Sorry, just occured to me, is it illegal to shoot targets with an unrestricted gun?

Outside of an authorised range, it's illegal to shoot targets with any rifle or pistol.
But not shotguns, because clay pigeon shooting isn't legally defined as target shooting.

Witcher

You can't shoot targets with any firearm resricted or unrestricted outside an authorised range.

Sparks

Blay wrote: »

You can't shoot targets with any firearm resricted or unrestricted outside an authorised range.

Except shotguns, as noted above.

juice1304

Has anyone asked the DoJ to define zeroing in writing?

Sparks

It wouldn't help juice, for three reasons:
1) How do you define it? I've yet to hear a solid, stands-up-to-scrutiny-and-agreed-on-by-all definition from anyone in the community, let alone the Powers That Be...
2) Someone asked Minister McDowell back in the day, and he responded "oh, I didn't mean zeroing at all"... and the response isn't worth peanuts for the same reason that -
3) The DoJ can't fix the problem, because target shooting off an authorised range is the defined offence, and it's the lack of a definition in the Act of either target shooting or zeroing that causes the problem.

And the Act was passed by the Oireachtas, and that trumps the Department, the Gardai and the Minister. So basically, if the Act says it's illegal, the Minister and Department can say whatever they want to, but it won't make it legal.


What's needed to fix this is to either repeal the section of the Act that makes shooting outside of a range an offence (which isn't likely to happen); or to have definitions for zeroing and target shooting inserted into the Firearms Act. That might start with the Minister and DoJ but it has to go (via the AG's office) to the Oireachtas, get through the Dail and Seanad and made into law. Which is a long, laborious, difficult process and with the Firearms Consultation Panel currently in limbo thanks to the court cases, we'd have no way to shape the initial definitions or shepard them past the Gardai in a usable form (and even after that point, getting them through the Dail and Seanad intact would be fairly tricky).

otmmyboy2

What exactly is the state of the FCP at the moment? And thanks op, I'd pondered this a bit myself.

Sparks

Not officially dead as far as I know, but hasn't met since the NARGC (who sat on the FCP) started taking court cases and attacking the DoJ (who chair the FCP) in the media.

clivej

My thinking on this is to shoot at anything else than a target to zero.

And I can't see why you can't use a restricted firearm on private land to hunt/shoot

I've just got my restricted Marlin 1894 .357mag lever action cowboy rifle. The only condition applied to the license was I can't use .357mag ammo in it. Go figure.

otmmyboy2

clivej wrote: »

And I can't see why you can't use a restricted firearm on private land to hunt/shoot

I've just got my restricted Marlin 1894 .357mag lever action cowboy rifle. The only condition applied to the license was I can't use .357mag ammo in it. Go figure.

Thats true but look at restricted guns full stop, a .308 is infinitely more hazardous than a 9mm yet a .308 is unrestricted while a 9mm is. Ugh, irish gun laws. :mad:

It wasn't me!

clivej wrote: »

My thinking on this is to shoot at anything else than a target to zero.

And I can't see why you can't use a restricted firearm on private land to hunt/shoot

I've just got my restricted Marlin 1894 .357mag lever action cowboy rifle. The only condition applied to the license was I can't use .357mag ammo in it. Go figure.

Going to pop a bunny or two with it? I'd say it'd be brilliant fun for that.

tfox

clivej wrote: »

My thinking on this is to shoot at anything else than a target to zero.

And I can't see why you can't use a restricted firearm on private land to hunt/shoot

I've just got my restricted Marlin 1894 .357mag lever action cowboy rifle. The only condition applied to the license was I can't use .357mag ammo in it. Go figure.

so what do you do, go "bang" every time you squeeze the trigger....?:rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

tfox wrote: »

so what do you do, go "bang" every time you squeeze the trigger....?:rolleyes:

You use .38 Specials in it. .357 mag chamber takes both. Same as a .44 mag will also take .44 specials or a .300 weatherby can take .300 holland and holland.

tfox

why are you not allowed use the .357 mag anyway ?

Mr.Flibble

tomwalsh wrote: »

Hmmm, interesting. Must look into that so, would the dreaded planning permission be involved? :eek:

Probably depends on what construction &/or earthworks are involved.

The dreaded range fee would definitely be involved.

It wasn't me!

tfox wrote: »

why are you not allowed use the .357 mag anyway ?

Dunno. It's a crap restriction really.

clivej

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Going to pop a bunny or two with it? I'd say it'd be brilliant fun for that.

clivej wrote: »

My thinking on this is to shoot at anything else than a target to zero.

And I can't see why you can't use a restricted firearm on private land to hunt/shoot

I've just got my restricted Marlin 1894 .357mag lever action cowboy rifle. The only condition applied to the license was I can't use .357mag ammo in it. Go figure.

tfox wrote: »

so what do you do, go "bang" every time you squeeze the trigger....?:rolleyes:

It wasn't me! wrote: »

You use .38 Specials in it. .357 mag chamber takes both. Same as a .44 mag will also take .44 specials or a .300 weatherby can take .300 holland and holland.

tfox wrote: »

why are you not allowed use the .357 mag anyway ?

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Dunno. It's a crap restriction really.

Hard to say what the thinking behind it was. Yes I shoot .38spl ammo in gallery rifle comp. so don't need the .357mag but would have been nice not to have that restriction on the license.

Funny thing is the license only states .357 as the caliber for the rifle.

I think I could be the first to get any restricted license in Kilkenny in a long time, my thanks go to CS McGarry for the license.

meathstevie

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

Thats true but look at restricted guns full stop, a .308 is infinitely more hazardous than a 9mm yet a .308 is unrestricted while a 9mm is. Ugh, irish gun laws. :mad:

Any reason why a .308 is more hazardous than a 9mm ?

Personaly I'm quite convinced that most 9mm chambered firearms ( pistols and submachine guns ) are a lot easier misused in criminal hands than a bulkier bigger .308 chambered gun ( in most cases a big not easily concealed rifle ) but that in my opinion has nothing to do with licenced firearms.

The simple fact is that criminals have their own procurement channels that don't involve stealing licenced guns. Let's face it, if you're capable of importing a couple of hundred kilos of cocaine and millions of counterfeit cigarettes a year you won't have too much bother importing a few dozen black market pistols and ammo either.

I'm also convinced that both a 9mm handgun and .308 rifle should be well within the realms of possibility for a suitable individual to have and use under certificate for hunting and target shooting purposes.

Double Barrel

Stevie, there is something seriously wrong with your reasoning, ..... way too much common sense. Not allowed.

otmmyboy2

meathstevie wrote: »

Any reason why a .308 is more hazardous than a 9mm ?

Personaly I'm quite convinced that most 9mm chambered firearms ( pistols and submachine guns ) are a lot easier misused in criminal hands than a bulkier bigger .308 chambered gun ( in most cases a big not easily concealed rifle ) but that in my opinion has nothing to do with licenced firearms.

I was going on the guard's assumption that anything that is over .308 is restricted, therefore more hazardous at least in their view. Just going by lethality a .308 is a lot more dangerous, still lethally accurate at 1250m if my knowledge of longest sniper shots is correct, whereas a 9mm has a far lower effective range.

And given the impossibility of licensing handguns and smgs in Ireland I was mainly referring to a carbine, a rifle chambered for a pistol round, rather than a true rifle chambered in a rifle calibre. And I was solely looking at the licensed side of firearms.