It's not just the pyjama wearers....GARDAI receive RENT ALLOWANCE

K-9

micropig wrote: »

Gardai getting rent allowance, public finances mean that garda stations are closing all over the place

Maybe, there are other reasons too, it isn't quite as simple as that.

Link to article about submissions to Brendan Howlin...From the public on ways to save money about garda

Link doesn't work.

Lots of garda stations closing down.... of the justice budget €12.4million is being spent on paying tax for gardai and €14.4million defending shell to sea, I've just recently discovered they receive rent alllowance. their wages comes from tax payers money and I have a right to ask questions about what it's being spent on

Nobody said you shouldn't ask questions, they do seem Public Sector fixated though.

get where I'm going...the country is in the state it's in because of the lack of debate on issues.

You are debating, there's plenty of debate on politics in Ireland, its very simplistic though IMO.

If they are stationed in the one area for a long period, they should move closer, I think they are looking at this from an earlier link

Probably should. You know how much, long period allowances cost? Link doesn't work.

Here, you fail with logic. Read my posts. I already said, it is only right that they get reimbursed for expenses incurred on duty, travel etc

Surely a regional salesman knows travel is part of the job? It's an expense of the job, why should the company for it? A door to door salesman should get a new pair of shoes every month!

So you don't know

You don't know, it's recent information for you, I gave a good reason for the payment. So, you don't know.

Kindly don't dismiss people who have experience of the payment as they don't know, when you just read about the payment a couple of weeks ago. No harm to you but that makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I know nothing about this topic, so I'll dismiss somebody who knows something! That's idiotic.

I'm not contributing to paying the private sectors wages;)

Seriously? :D:D:D

FFS, how do private sector wages get paid? You don't buy a paper, buy food.............

I give up! :pac:

steddyeddy

Nico Clean Tutor wrote: »

AGS as a whole has earned my respect.

As for me, I'm a member of the Defence Forces.

Sorry I enlarged my point to include.

Ill add that I mean the problem to be the way Irish people lay certain respect on groups of people irrespective of wheter its deserved. I have one or two mates on the gaurds. One got the position because of his father and grandfather, The other comes from a home rife with domestic abuse and despite that (or in spite of) became a gaurd. Both have the same job yet theres only one I would respect.

I didnt ask what you did sorry if it came across that way. The ags as a whole havent earned my respect as a whole some of the individual members have. I dont believe in giving people total respect based on thier job. As I say above some members (in my opinion) got their because of their parent relatives ect. Some like my other mate didnt he had to work hard for it.

Im not singling out gaurds I just think theres a habit in ireland of unconditional respect towards certain groups, eg the gaurds, politicians or the catholic church.


*Just copped that I wasnt implying you were a gaurd by the way!

Lannigan

micropig wrote: »

You are forced in to this position because you accepted a job which puts you in this position. Did you know before entering AGS that you would be stationed elsewhere?

I'm not saying you have to move your family, but it is another option you have...That the decision you and your family have to make. Many people move for work.

Current work practices are not working, do you hold out much hope that the new rosters will improve things?

I understood that I would have to move away, just not that the options to get back are so limited and difficult. I took the job with my eyes open and I will admit the salary offered at first was going to be compensation enough. Then came the cuts etc.

I am well aware that there are more people suffering currently other than me and i sympathise with them also. I am being selfish in just trying to look after me and mine, perhaps.

As for the new rosters, they are not great but the 6 days on and 4 off will mean i have more time with my children in theory.

It a 10 week roster instead of a 4 week one and there are some weeks that I will not see my kidsfor up to 9 days at a time. Can you justify that?

Anyone that has a partner in the job is going to have serious problems though. There is no unit that will allow for both parties to sort out childminding between them. People are looking at trying to get childminding up to 4am. That in any job is unacceptable and unworkable.

steddyeddy

Lannigan wrote: »

I understood that I would have to move away, just not that the options to get back are so limited and difficult. I took the job with my eyes open and I will admit the salary offered at first was going to be compensation enough. Then came the cuts etc.

I am well aware that there are more people suffering currently other than me and i sympathise with them also. I am being selfish in just trying to look after me and mine, perhaps.

As for the new rosters, they are not great but the 6 days on and 4 off will mean i have more time with my children in theory.

It a 10 week roster instead of a 4 week one and there are some weeks that I will not see my kidsfor up to 9 days at a time. Can you justify that?

Anyone that has a partner in the job is going to have serious problems though. There is no unit that will allow for both parties to sort out childminding between them. People are looking at trying to get childminding up to 4am. That in any job is unacceptable and unworkable.

Sounds tougher than most jobs in fairness. Do you mind me asking if you like it though? I work long hours not as anti social as your hours but still draining. Im not on fantastic pay either but I love what I do and I know the ability to rise through the ranks is there. Do you like your job and feel there is the capacity to rise through the ranks? If this is to personal I apologise and just ignore it!

Lannigan

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sounds tougher than most jobs in fairness. Do you mind me asking if you like it though? I work long hours not as anti social as your hours but still draining. Im not on fantastic pay either but I love what I do and I know the ability to rise through the ranks is there. Do you like your job and feel there is the capacity to rise through the ranks? If this is to personal I apologise and just ignore it!

No its ok.
I love what I do and to quote from an earlier post I get great satisfaction what i know i have helped someone.

As for the rising through the ranks, its always a possibility if you do the exams and pass the interviews. You can get moved to different departments/jobs within the job again of you pass the interview and have the required work return etc. Its very competivive though and a lot of politics involved sometimes. (~Which is not supposed to be the case but lets live in the real world here )

steddyeddy

Lannigan wrote: »

No its ok.
I love what I do and to quote from an earlier post I get great satisfaction what i know i have helped someone.

As for the rising through the ranks, its always a possibility if you do the exams and pass the interviews. You can get moved to different departments/jobs within the job again of you pass the interview and have the required work return etc. Its very competivive though and a lot of politics involved sometimes. (~Which is not supposed to be the case but lets live in the real world here )

Fair play hope it works out for you. I get the politics bit had to play within that framework for a bit but Im moving away from that side of things now luckily! Thanks for answering! Good night!

Lannigan

steddyeddy wrote: »

Fair play hope it works out for you. I get the politics bit had to play within that framework for a bit but Im moving away from that side of things now luckily! Thanks for answering! Good night!

Your welcome

pickarooney

Lannigan wrote: »

The rent allowance is fully taxable and is also included in the calculations for the universal social charge and all the pension levies and PRSI purposes. The rules are very clear in the stationing of Gardai in stations. you cannot live within 15 miles of your home District. For example, Carlow/Kilkenny is a district. This covers a hugh area.
So if you are a homeowner and you are stationed away from home the chances of you getting anywhere close to home are virtually nil.
As there is no move on the property market, Guards are not able to sell their houses so are left paying mortages and having to rent in the area they are stationed.
As for the high salaries, this is only the case if you have over 15 years service, but due to the levies etc, they are significantly reduced.
Personally I have no long service and I have a mortage to pay in my home town. I am stationed over 100 miles from home and have to pay rent where i am stationed. Coupled with this I have the added expense of the fuel to go home to my family (married with kids).
I am left with less than minimum wage to live on each week and this has had an impact on family life and their standard of living also. Without the rent allowance to help i would be virtually destitute.
Just putting it out there.

I'm just curious as to why you would buy a house in your home town when you know you won't be allowed to work within commuting distance of it.

micropig

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe, there are other reasons too, it isn't quite as simple as that.

Of course there are other reasons, but mostly it's about the money

K-9 wrote: »

Link doesn't work.

I linked and quoted to it in an earlier post, you yourself quoted it also, why do I need to link again. I was just underlining, that they are suggestions from the public

K-9 wrote: »

Nobody said you shouldn't ask questions, they do seem Public Sector fixated though.



You are debating, there's plenty of debate on politics in Ireland, its very simplistic though IMO.




Probably should. You know how much, long period allowances cost? Link doesn't work.

Why do they need a long period allowance, for living in the same place, this makes no sense?

K-9 wrote: »

Surely a regional salesman knows travel is part of the job? It's an expense of the job, why should the company for it? A door to door salesman should get a new pair of shoes every month!

Yes and Gardai are paid for uniforms & travel allowances on duty, which they are

K-9 wrote: »

You don't know, it's recent information for you, I gave a good reason for the payment. So, you don't know.

Kindly don't dismiss people who have experience of the payment as they don't know, when you just read about the payment a couple of weeks ago. No harm to you but that makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I know nothing about this topic, so I'll dismiss somebody who knows something! That's idiotic.

Can you provide links to what you know?

Idiotic is to come on a thread, try and drag it off topic and make claims without providing links, and then winge you are dismissed when it's questions

K-9 wrote: »

Seriously? :D:D:D

FFS, how do private sector wages get paid? You don't buy a paper, buy food.............

I give up! :pac:

The private sector generates money itself, by producing goods and paying taxes, to pay it's own and public sector wages. Are you going to say now that the public sector, somehow pay the private sector wages:rolleyes:

When I deal with people in the private sector I am getting a product/service for my investment. The garda, and most other branches of the public sector, do not generate, money apart from fines etc. So, it's simple really, you don't need to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to figure it out (but you might need an allowance)


In this country, people like to give out about the government ruining the country etc. It doesn't matter who we put in power, we need to address the over inflated and overpaid public sector. The system we have is not working, crime rates etc are rising, backlogs etc. country's in a mess but your an idiot apparently to question things that could be changed


The whole I'm all right jack, fcuk evveryone else attitude...nice




@pickarooney..+1

K-9

micropig wrote: »

Idiotic is to come on a thread, try and drag it off topic and make claims without providing links, and then winge you are dismissed when it's questions.

, its your thread, your the one who is dragged anything you can find to moan about the Guards into it! :rolleyes:

The private sector generates money itself, by producing goods and paying taxes, to pay it's own and public sector wages. Are you going to say now that the public sector, somehow pay the private sector wages:rolleyes:


When I deal with people in the private sector I am getting a product/service for my investment. The garda, and most other branches of the public sector, do not generate, money apart from fines etc. So, it's simple really, you don't need to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to figure it out (but you might need an allowance)

Ah bless the simplicity.

In this country, people like to give out about the government ruining the country etc. It doesn't matter who we put in power, we need to address the over inflated and overpaid public sector. The system we have is not working, crime rates etc are rising, backlogs etc. country's in a mess but your an idiot apparently to question things that could be changed


The whole I'm all right jack, fcuk evveryone else attitude...nice

Nice rant.

Hootanany

How much is boot polish anyway.

micropig

Hootanany wrote: »

How much is boot polish anyway.

99cents in tesco for a tin of black* shoe polish, lasts about a month if polishing your shoes every night.

Laces....priced about the same 99cents/pair
Buy a set of brushes, cloths a "shoe polishing kit" if you will, for €10, most even include a tin of free polish




*It may only be very, very, very dark blue, just like priests have the real black socks, maybe only gardai have access to the real black shoe polish


How much of an allowance do they get for this?

Hootanany

micropig wrote: »

Hootanany wrote: »

How much is boot polish anyway.

99cents in tesco for a tin of black* shoe polish, lasts about a month if polishing your shoes every night.

Laces....priced about the same 99cents/pair
Buy a set of brushes, cloths a "shoe polishing kit" if you will, for €10, most even include a tin of free polish




*It may only be very, very, very dark blue, just like priests have the real black socks, maybe only gardai have access to the real black shoe polish


How much of an allowance do they get for this?[/Quote



€2.93 pw

micropig

Hootanany wrote: »

micropig wrote: »

99cents in tesco for a tin of black* shoe polish, lasts about a month if polishing your shoes every night.

Laces....priced about the same 99cents/pair
Buy a set of brushes, cloths a "shoe polishing kit" if you will, for €10, most even include a tin of free polish




*It may only be very, very, very dark blue, just like priests have the real black socks, maybe only gardai have access to the real black shoe polish


How much of an allowance do they get for this?[/Quote



€2.93 pw

€1.17 after the new tax starting 01/01/2012:D

Uniform/Boot Allowance - 40% taxable under Schedule E

Hope they can manage

van_beano

Rent Allowance also taxed....

Gardai outside the DMR have 2 changeovers a week, 8 hours between shifts which could be as little as 6 hours sleep depending on travel etc

Gardai in DMR work 7 nights in a row 10pm to 6am, finish Monday morning at 6am, back to work Wednesday at 2pm

Some Gardai finish work at 6am and are due in court again at 10:30am.

In all fairness the Gardai out there deserve whatever allowances they get

dirtyden

micropig wrote: »

Hootanany wrote: »

€1.17 after the new tax starting 01/01/2012:D

Uniform/Boot Allowance - 40% taxable under Schedule E

Hope they can manage

Is it really the justice budget you are bothered about?

It really does seem like you are just upset about garda pay, and that this is an anti-garda rant. 1.17 a week is about 60 euros a year.

micropig

van_beano wrote: »

Rent Allowance also taxed....

Gardai outside the DMR have 2 changeovers a week, 8 hours between shifts which could be as little as 6 hours sleep depending on travel etc

Travel The allowance is to rent near the station

van_beano wrote: »

Gardai in DMR work 7 nights in a row 10pm to 6am, finish Monday morning at 6am, back to work Wednesday at 2pm

Some Gardai finish work at 6am and are due in court again at 10:30am.

In all fairness the Gardai out there deserve whatever allowances they get

Granted, but the rosters are been looked at, and new ones being introduced, so maybe this will help

From the Sunday World 23/01/2012, linked through the GRA website
"Last month we revealed how, in a remarkable display of short -sightedness, more than 2,500 Garda detectives are to be stripped of their guns to save a paltry €2.7m. This penny-pinching is resulting in members of the public being put at risk because only 1,200 officers throughout the country will have firearms to confront serious criminals with.

Tonight, if there is a late-night armed robbery in Ballyfermot in west Dublin between 2am and 8am there will be just TWO armed detectives on duty in the entire capital. Due to the fact that these detectives are usually busy answering other calls, the chances of the criminals being arrested are practically zero because by the time armed gardai arrive, the raiders are long gone.

When the new Garda roster is introduced in the coming months, the number of armed officers on the streets during the day will be heavily slashed.

2012 will see well more than 600 Garda cars simply disappear. The majority are being retired because they will have reached 300,000 kilometres and are no longer safe. They will not be replaced

Only this week Justice Minister Alan Shatter held his hands up and admitted that more Garda stations will be closed in 2013 even though 31 stations, most of them in rural Ireland, will be chopped this year. He talks about "further consolidation of stations" and the fact that closing them frees up desk-bound gardai, as if it is a good thing

Laws introduced last week allow home owners to use force to stop somebody breaking into their homes. If there are no gardai within 50 miles then people are pretty much being asked to be their own police force and effectively make citizens' arrests and hold potentially dangerous criminals until the cops are able to arrive and arrest them. It is a recipe for disaster.

In the meantime, gardai are forced to buy their own toilet roll because there is no money for supplies and two expensive Garda helicopters are practically grounded because there is no money to fuel them. Gardai are no longer allowed to go to court to prosecute cases and elite units such as the Organised Crime Unit may well be disbanded altogether."




Read the above and tell me it's important that each member of the gardai, regardless of salary receives rent allowance,

The new recruits have taken a hit, an so has all the other Gardai with new, but this is not the same as removing these allowances, especially from the higher earners, integrate them in to the salary of the lower earners and tax it properly and cut it altogether for anyone earning over €40,000

van_beano

micropig wrote: »

Travel The allowance is to rent near the station

Regardless if it's for renting near the station or not, are you not calling for this allowance to be done away with anyway? Then there'd be a situation of Gardai not being able to rent near the station or pay for petrol / diesel to get to the station from wherever they're living. Very few Gardai come out with €40,000 a year, the organisation is run on good will at the moment from using their own personal phone for work purposes to many Gardai in the "2 man" stations in the country travelling to calls in their own personal cars. Do these people not deserve every penny they earn?

micropig

van_beano wrote: »

Regardless if it's for renting near the station or not, are you not calling for this allowance to be done away with anyway? Then there'd be a situation of Gardai not being able to rent near the station or pay for petrol / diesel to get to the station from wherever they're living. Very few Gardai come out with €40,000 a year, the organisation is run on good will at the moment from using their own personal phone for work purposes to many Gardai in the "2 man" stations in the country travelling to calls in their own personal cars. Do these people not deserve every penny they earn?

It's not what you come out with, it's gross that counts.

Would these guys not prefer slightly less pay, but more equipment & resources to help them do their job effectively?

tayto lover

Jesus Micropig you are spending some amount of time ranting about Garda and Teachers. Have you nothing better to do. There are people employed to regulate all of the Public Sector so will you let them at it and give it a rest.

van_beano

But you can't spend the total amount of your gross pay, Gardai are being taxed 50% of their gross pay each week with pension levies, USC, PAYE and PRSI, they are effectively funding themselves, Gardai work twice the hours to earn this 50% back - work the first week to pay it in taxes and work the second week to earn it in their pay only for another 50% to be taken and he vicious cycle starts again.

In so far as cutting wages and allowances to fund Garda cars and keeping stations open etc, there would need to be a cut of about 100% of Garda pay and allowances to even bring the force up to a decent standard.

On a brighter note though the Criminal Assets Bureau are practically self funded and give money back to the Exchequer every year so it's not just by Fixed Penalty Notices for Road Traffic and Public Order Offences that money is given back to he state by the organisation.

micropig

van_beano wrote: »

But you can't spend the total amount of your gross pay, Gardai are being taxed 50% of their gross pay each week with pension levies, USC, PAYE and PRSI, they are effectively funding themselves, Gardai work twice the hours to earn this 50% back - work the first week to pay it in taxes and work the second week to earn it in their pay only for another 50% to be taken and he vicious cycle starts again.

In so far as cutting wages and allowances to fund Garda cars and keeping stations open etc, there would need to be a cut of about 100% of Garda pay and allowances to even bring the force up to a decent standard.

On a brighter note though the Criminal Assets Bureau are practically self funded and give money back to the Exchequer every year so it's not just by Fixed Penalty Notices for Road Traffic and Public Order Offences that money is given back to he state by the organisation.

Every one gets taxed at the appropriate level depending at what tax band they're in regardless of their job, upc

Pension same as above-you'll get that back


They had €12.4million to pay taxes of some Gardai, so their priorities on spending all obviously not in the right place

GARDA bosses have been forced to raid their annual budget to pay €12.4m to the Revenue Commissioners, after a series of allowances to gardai were wrongly left untaxed


+1 for the Criminal Assets Bureau, but they will be hit also by the cut in the budget, the value of the properties they are seizing etc has decreased with property market etc..The revenue they generate decreasing.


The sad fact is the budget has been cut, and equipment & resources have taken the total hit.

micropig

tayto lover wrote: »

Jesus Micropig you are spending some amount of time ranting about Garda and Teachers. Have you nothing better to do. There are people employed to regulate all of the Public Sector so will you let them at it and give it a rest.

Well if history has though us anything it's that the people regulating the public sector are fantastic at what they do:rolleyes:

van_beano

micropig wrote: »

Pension same as above-you'll get that back

Pension is actually different since the pension levy was introduced, Gardai pay a lot more for their pensions now, their pension when they retire will be not be higher so it's not a case of "you'll get it back", Gardai are paying higher now for the same level of pension.

I think you should have a swipe at Revenue now for taking the €12.4m from the Garda Budget, it's not like the Gardai wasted that money. Plus last year this state had an official and unofficial visit from 2 heads of states which took roughly €40m out of the Garda budget.

micropig

van_beano wrote: »

Pension is actually different since the pension levy was introduced, Gardai pay a lot more for their pensions now, their pension when they retire will be not be higher so it's not a case of "you'll get it back", Gardai are paying higher now for the same level of pension.

I think you should have a swipe at Revenue now for taking the €12.4m from the Garda Budget, it's not like the Gardai wasted that money. Plus last year this state had an official and unofficial visit from 2 heads of states which took roughly €40m out of the Garda budget.

Gardai are just contributing more towards their pension, state can not afford to

Would you rather the actual pension be cut instead of increasing the contribution?

Revenue should have been charging the appropriate tax on these allowances but where not. The people of Ireland did not benefit from this, but members of the Gardai. Why was it not taken from the individual members who benefited instead of out of the budget at all? It is up to each individual to ensure that they are tax compliant, but revenue also should have copped this,

maybe a gentleman's agreement between revenue and the top ranks of AGS was made years ago and came back to bite them?;)

Regardless why should it come out of the budget?

+1 About the heads of state, too costly at a time we could least afford it

Cee-Jay-Cee

No other job in the country forces its employess to work and live away from their home place and even when they get transfered nearer to home there is a 50km rule for the first 3 years and then 30km after that, in that they cannot work less than 50/30km from their homes (dublin is the only exception to the rule) so why shouldnt they get rent allowance. Politicians are paid every time they go outside their front door, they get mileage allowance, overnight stay allowances and they can claim back literally every penny they spend when theyre in dublin/dail.

Micropig, the rent allowance works out at 40euro after tax...not enough to pay for anything half habitable.

tayto lover

micropig wrote: »

Well if history has though us anything it's that the people regulating the public sector are fantastic at what they do:rolleyes:

If you want to tackle Justice issues then you would be better starting threads on why an escaped Garda killer (with 91 other crimes behind him) was serving his time in an Open Prison.

micropig

CJC999 wrote: »

No other job in the country forces its employess to work and live away from their home place and even when they get transfered nearer to home there is a 50km rule for the first 3 years and then 30km after that, in that they cannot work less than 50/30km from their homes (dublin is the only exception to the rule) so why shouldnt they get rent allowance. Politicians are paid every time they go outside their front door, they get mileage allowance, overnight stay allowances and they can claim back literally every penny they spend when theyre in the dail and your complaining about a poxy rent allowance thats worth 40euro after tax.

I have family in the guards and so have the info first hand.

Many people leave their home town to find work. You knew when you joined you could not live work within 50 mile of your home town.

Politicians are a whole other thread and I'll happily contribute to it if you start one.

rent allowance is €4144.30 pa for every member of the force 14,321


4155.30 * 14321 = 59508051.30

Thats €59,508,051 which could be redirected towards resources

Scrap another few more suspect allowances to that, at least they could buy toilet roll

MagicSean

As far as I am concerned I earn every cent I'm paid and I earned every cent I've had cut from my wages too. Wether you want to call it rent allowance, travel allowance or sleep in the car allowance it amounts to the same thing. It's a compensation for the distance you must travel from your home to work.

MagicSean

micropig wrote: »

Many people leave their home town to find work. You knew when you joined you could not live work within 50 mile of your home town.

Politicians are a whole other thread and I'll happily contribute to it if you start one.

rent allowance is €4144.30 pa for every member of the force 14,321


4155.30 * 14321 = 59508051.30

Thats €59,508,051 which could be redirected towards resources

Scrap another few more suspect allowances to that, at least they could buy toilet roll

What I knew when I joined is not really relevant because when I joined I also knew I'd be well compensated for the sacrifices I would have to make, something which is no longer the case.

Btw micropig you wouldn't happen to be an alter ego of gigino would you? Your posting style is amazingly similar.

California Man

Attention seeking morons, these pyjama wearing people are.

hop2it

Mr Jinx wrote: »

Guards are recruited from a cross section of the general public, there fore by your logic 95% of the public they deal with are ignorant lazy bastards and 5% are decent........ emm wonder which one you fit into.

ya they start off as decent members of the public and after training they become ignorant, lazy, money hungry, self serving ,back scratching *****

micropig

MagicSean wrote: »

As far as I am concerned I earn every cent I'm paid and I earned every cent I've had cut from my wages too. Wether you want to call it rent allowance, travel allowance or sleep in the car allowance it amounts to the same thing. It's a compensation for the distance you must travel from your home to work.

I'm trying to find a link for about how far a garda can live from the station, but I can't find one, if anyone could provide one it be good

because there is a big difference between not being stationed 50km away from your home town

and

having to live at least 50km from where you are stationed.

You do realise that financially the country is in ****.The budget is not going to get any bigger.Equipment is being and will be sacrificed in order so the wages can be paid? Equipment & resources took all the hit here. Benchmarking means salaries can go down as well as up and not just taxes. A lot has changed in the country since.


No alter ego

al28283

micropig wrote: »

I'd rather see the money spent on keeping these small stations open.

I'd rather we had well trained and well paid officers in the places they are needed rather than propping up stations where there is little need for them

al28283

micropig wrote: »

Thats €59,508,051 which could be redirected towards resources

The guards themselves are a resource

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

I'd rather we had well trained and well paid officers in the places they are needed rather than propping up stations where there is little need for them

No one is suggesting the standard to which they are trained decreases

But a allowance paid across the board for rent regardless of income, you'd agreed with someone earning €44,744 upwards being paid rent allowance
.
If the answer to the last question I posed is 50km from your home town, you move nearer your work if the travelling distances are eating such a big hole in your income, you don't buy a house in your home town in the first place, as you know you're going to be working at least 50km from there..common sense?


There is a great need for stations in these areas. crime happens in rural Ireland too you know, murders, robberies, drugs, the whole shebang;)


Garda are resources yes, but they need more than manpower to do the job effectively

al28283

micropig wrote: »

No one is suggesting the standard to which they are trained decreases

But a allowance paid across the board for rent regardless of income, you'd agreed with someone earning €44,744 upwards being paid rent allowance.

So in reality you want them to do the same job, to the same standard but for less money, right?

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

So in reality you want them to do the same job, to the same standard but for less money, right?

Why should the equipment and smaller stations take all the hit on cuts, and personal take none. Benchmarking means wages can go up as well as down.


It's a fallacy that this allowance is for "renting a place near work because you can't live in your home town"

For some years until 1960, in fact, throughout the whole history of the Force, Gardaí were in the peculiar position that they did not have one wage which included rent but received a basic wage and the rent was paid to them as though it were a separate thing. That is why the Department of Finance for several years resisted the application of the Garda to have the rent made part of their complete wage structure. As soon as the Garda were given a scheme of conciliation and arbitration, they renewed their application to have the rent allowance included in their wage and no sooner was the application made than it was granted. If ever there was proof needed that there was justice in the case, it was surely provided when, on arbitration for the first time, it was given to them as soon as they applied for it.

Another interesting thing is that throughout the history of the Force, the Revenue Commissioners who, after all, are one arm of the Department of Finance, have insisted that the rent allowance was part of the wage paid to members of the Garda Síochána and, in fact, this case was tried out in court. There is the case of Garda White against the Inspector of Taxes in 1948. Judge McCarthy, in his judgment on 30th July, 1948, dismissed Garda White's claim on the ground that rent allowance was part of his salary and emoluments.


Perfectly acceptable to stay in the station houses, but lack of uptrake meant these guys stayed on




Gardai Representatives fought to keep it's status as a tax free allowance over the years. So it is an allowance, that they have benefited from tax free over the years.

I would rather each Gardai take a hit of €4,000, instead of the people of the country suffering because the Garda are unable to do their job due to the cutbacks.


If it was part of their wages, it should have been integrated and taxed properly years ago. It is an allowance.


Why is it fair that regardless of salary, Garda receive this payment?

al28283

micropig wrote: »

If it was part of their wages, it should have been integrated and taxed properly years ago. It is an allowance.

So you'd be ok with this then? It's just the fact that it's names an allowance that bothers you?

SeanW

micropig wrote: »

Our streets are so safe, I apologise. They didn't have to introduce legislation to allow people to defend themselves in their own home, because the Gardai are so effective:rolleyes:

Even in the best of circumstances, you can never have police officers prevent all crime.

A civilised society should have "your home is your castle" laws regardless of how good the police force is. Because they can never be everywhere.

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

So you'd be ok with this then? It's just the fact that it's names an allowance that bothers you?

No it's the fact, that each member of the force, regardless of wages get this allowance. It doesn't matter what it's called, it is an allowance, paid on top of their basic wage and taxed differently. Most of them are well compensated in their wages for "rent".

You're happy for the Garda to do the job with only manpower and minimal resources, Right? Stations all around the country to be shut etc, Right?

micropig

SeanW wrote: »

Even in the best of circumstances, you can never have police officers prevent all crime.

A civilised society should have "your home is your castle" laws regardless of how good the police force is. Because they can never be everywhere.

Not just me, from the Sunday world 23/01/12 linked through the GRA website

Laws introduced last week allow home owners to use force to stop somebody breaking into their homes. If there are no gardai within 50 miles then people are pretty much being asked to be their own police force and effectively make citizens' arrests and hold potentially dangerous criminals until the cops are able to arrive and arrest them. It is a recipe for disaster.

I know Gardai can't be everywhere, but the closure of rural stations is a disaster, there will be no visible policing in these area's. People know this and there will be more cases of civilians taking the law in to their own hand. This is moving away from being a civilised society.


You home is your castle, why were Garda accompanying the deputy Sheriff to evict home owners from their house, in breach of the constitution? (That case in Laois?)

al28283

micropig wrote: »

No it's the fact, that each member of the force, regardless of wages get this allowance. It doesn't matter what it's called, it is an allowance, paid on top of their basic wage and taxed differently. Most of them are well compensated in their wages for "rent".

You're happy for the Garda to do the job with only manpower and minimal resources, Right? Stations all around the country to be shut etc, Right?

Right. I think some should be closed, and others don't need to be open all night, depending on the area.
I don't agree that the gardai are working with minimal resources at all.

micropig

al28283 wrote: »

Right. I think some should be closed, and others don't need to be open all night, depending on the area.
I don't agree that the gardai are working with minimal resources at all.

Garda Commissioner "Martin Callinan has an almost impossible job. He has been told to slash €79m from his budget this year at a time when burglaries are increasing at an astounding rate.......................................................... 2,500 Garda detectives are to be stripped of their guns to save a paltry €2.7m. This penny-pinching is resulting in members of the public being put at risk because only 1,200 officers throughout the country will have firearms to confront serious criminals with.......................................................... 2012 will see well more than 600 Garda cars simply disappear.......................................................... two expensive Garda helicopters are practically grounded because there is no money to fuel them. Gardai are no longer allowed to go to court to prosecute cases and elite units such as the Organised Crime Unit may well be disbanded altogether.......................................................... Only this week Justice Minister Alan Shatter held his hands up and admitted that more Garda stations will be closed in 2013 even though 31 stations most of them in rural Ireland, will be chopped this year.......................................................... "



If they're not working with minimal resources now, they will be when this cut really kicks in, Although I would dispute abundance of resources if they're complaining about having to bring their own toilet roll,

al28283

micropig wrote: »

If they're not working with minimal resources now, they will be when this cut really kicks in, Although I would dispute abundance of resources if they're complaining about having to bring their own toilet roll,

I didn't say abundance, I said not minimal

Cian92

micropig wrote: »

Why should the equipment and smaller stations take all the hit on cuts, and personal take none. Benchmarking means wages can go up as well as down.

It's a fallacy that this allowance is for "renting a place near work because you can't live in your home town"


I would rather each Gardai take a hit of €4,000, instead of the people of the country suffering because the Garda are unable to do their job due to the cutbacks.


Why is it fair that regardless of salary, Garda receive this payment?

It is fair that Gardai receive tent allowance, regardless of salary because, they may have to move, regardless of salary.

The Gardai do not deserve another pay cut, and should not get another one.

What do you work as?

Nodin

micropig wrote: »

Garda Commissioner " own ...............toilet roll,

So what has you so bitter?

tayto lover

Nodin wrote: »

So what has you so bitter?

Looking at his name I wonder if he was too small at the time he applied ? Just struck me.

snubbleste

Hootanany wrote: »

How much is boot polish anyway.

Who buys boot polish anymore?
For the cost-mindful:
Take the skin from a just peeled banana
Rub the inner part all over the shoes as if it were polish
Use a soft cloth and buff up the shoe
Admire your new shiny shoes

Esoteric_

I really think Micropig needs to find a hobby, or get laid. This vendetta is a little pathetic and seems to be taking up all of his time.