It's not just the pyjama wearers....GARDAI receive RENT ALLOWANCE

patwicklow

Its a tough tough job dealing with scumbags every day they deserve the extra few bob would not begrudge them it at all.

SeanW

micropig wrote: »

Not just me, from the Sunday world 23/01/12 linked through the GRA website

Laws introduced last week allow home owners to use force to stop somebody breaking into their homes. If there are no gardai within 50 miles then people are pretty much being asked to be their own police force and effectively make citizens' arrests and hold potentially dangerous criminals until the cops are able to arrive and arrest them. It is a recipe for disaster.

I know Gardai can't be everywhere, but the closure of rural stations is a disaster, there will be no visible policing in these area's. People know this and there will be more cases of civilians taking the law in to their own hand. This is moving away from being a civilised society.

Forcing householders to sit on their hands and do nothing while scumbags invade their home is not a sign of a civilised society, it's a society ruled by scumbags.

A Castle doctrine and a good police force are independent issues and should be viewed as such - both are equally required IMHO.

Vizzy

MagicSean wrote: »

Btw micropig you wouldn't happen to be an alter ego of gigino would you? Your posting style is amazingly similar.

That thought struck me about 4 pages back.
I even went to the bother of checking was Gigino still posting under his/her own name.He is and nothing has changed.

token101

I'd sooner give it the Gardai than some scummer who can't even dress themselves.

seavill

micropig wrote: »

No one is suggesting the standard to which they are trained decreases

But a allowance paid across the board for rent regardless of income, you'd agreed with someone earning €44,744 upwards being paid rent allowance
.
If the answer to the last question I posed is 50km from your home town, you move nearer your work if the travelling distances are eating such a big hole in your income, you don't buy a house in your home town in the first place, as you know you're going to be working at least 50km from there..common sense?


There is a great need for stations in these areas. crime happens in rural Ireland too you know, murders, robberies, drugs, the whole shebang;)


Garda are resources yes, but they need more than manpower to do the job effectively

Ah Micropig you are back. It was teachers last time, this time the Gardai. I must say you must have plenty of time on your hands to have all your quotes and stats ready to slag off pay rates of public servants.
The pupil teacher ratio cuts must be giving you the time to start all these threads.

I have only scanned through the thread as I am really not interested in reading tripe once more, but from what I did see even from the first page you had most people disagreeing with you yet you persist in coming back with quotes and links to try argue a point that wasn't being discussed by anyone else but you.

To the rest of the people on this thread Micropig has form for having plenty quotes to back up irrelevant points and then switching the argument when someone actually has a fair point.

Surely you have better things to be doing Micropig.

seavill

Cian92 wrote: »

What do you work as?

Apparently Micropig is/was/might be a teacher or so they claimed in a different thread they started to discuss the education system but ended up just telling us all that we get paid too much, sound similar?

Micropig had a particular issue answering this question and ignored it many times it was asked so I would imagine you are going to get the response (if you get one at all) "what difference does my background/job make on whether or not my opinion is valid"
(thought I would save you the time in needing to type this again Micropig, but you probably have it on copy & paste at this stage:p:p:p)

micropig

Cian92 wrote: »

It is fair that Gardai receive tent allowance, regardless of salary because, they may have to move, regardless of salary.

Tent allowance:D, rent allowance has nothing to do with renting

Nodin wrote: »

So what has you so bitter?

Cuts imposed are all been taken from equipment and resources. This will effect a lot of people in the country and I'm not prepared to sit by and watch crime rates rise, while at the same time the Gardai complaining they have no resources to do the job properly

tayto lover wrote: »

Looking at his name I wonder if he was too small at the time he applied ? Just struck me.

LyndaMcL wrote: »

I really think Micropig needs to find a hobby, or get laid. This vendetta is a little pathetic and seems to be taking up all of his time.

Vizzy wrote: »

That thought struck me about 4 pages back.
I even went to the bother of checking was Gigino still posting under his/her own name.He is and nothing has changed.

Maybe ye should start a thread titled, "I don't agree with something being said, so I will attack the poster not the post". or "Micropig is being too subversive, lets bash them":rolleyes:

seavill wrote: »

Ah Micropig you are back. It was teachers last time, this time the Gardai.

Great, the educated Calvary has arrived. You could contribute to above thread

seavill wrote: »

I must say you must have plenty of time on your hands to have all your quotes and stats ready to slag off pay rates of public servants.
The pupil teacher ratio cuts must be giving you the time to start all these threads.

Should you not be out protesting at the unnecessary broadband, they're rolling out?

I like to use my time effectively and what of it if I prefer to do a bit of reading about a topic instead of watching coronation street? I have this thing called google..you probably don't know how to use it yet, as you've no time to do an ICT course, ignoring the fact you've 3months off in the summer?

seavill wrote: »

I have only scanned through the thread as I am really not interested in reading tripe once more, but from what I did see even from the first page you had most people disagreeing with you yet you persist in coming back with quotes and links to try argue a point that wasn't being discussed by anyone else but you.

So you didn't even read the thread, you just posted here to what....warn others?:rolleyes:

seavill wrote: »

To the rest of the people on this thread Micropig has form for having plenty quotes to back up irrelevant points and then switching the argument when someone actually has a fair point.

Reading, forming an opinion, being presented with fact backed up with references, researching, reconsidering my position, researching a bit more.........

seavill wrote: »

Apparently Micropig is/was/might be a teacher or so they claimed in a different thread they started to discuss the education system but ended up just telling us all that we get paid too much, sound similar?

Well, how does this sound..A teachers basic starting rate is

Starting before 01/01/10 was €30,904..reduced to €27,814 for those starting after1/1/11

A garda's starting salary was €27,100 reduced to €25,745 on 01/01/2010 (without allowances)


but ye are entitled to it right, as a teachers job is obviously harder than a Garda (who works the 12 months of the year) :rolleyes:


Were discussing garda allowances here at a time when the budget has been cut and resources are being hit.

Nodin

micropig wrote: »

Cuts imposed are all been taken from equipment and resources. This will effect a lot of people in the country and I'm not prepared to sit by and watch crime rates rise, while at the same time the Gardai complaining they have no resources to do the job properly

......

....and do you not think it would be better, perhaps, to look at Ministers pay, the breach of the paycap for special advisers and bankers, st patricks day junkets, etc and so on than whinging on about a few bob to people who have to do a tough job?

micropig

Nodin wrote: »

....and do you not think it would be better, perhaps, to look at Ministers pay, the breach of the paycap for special advisers and bankers, st patricks day junkets, etc and so on than whinging on about a few bob to people who have to do a tough job?

Absolutely, but that's another thread....Every thread can't be about everything. There is excess in many parts of the public sector, reminiscent of the Celtic Tiger era, absolutely look at all those things you say in another thread..I would like to focus on justying why someone on was wage of for example €42,000+ needs rent allowance on top of their salary, when at the same time, basic equipment needs are being hit.

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Great, the educated Calvary has arrived. You could contribute to above thread

I did contribute you just didn't like what I contributed

Should you not be out protesting at the unnecessary broadband, they're rolling out?

I like to use my time effectively and what of it if I prefer to do a bit of reading about a topic instead of watching coronation street? I have this thing called google..you probably don't know how to use it yet, as you've no time to do an ICT course, ignoring the fact you've 3months off in the summer?

Oh my god was it you who just mentioned to someone else to attack the post not the poster I have a good mind to report that post but I'll be nice as we are old friends:D (just to let you know for my subjects I need to be well up on ICT thanks for asking though:p)


Well, how does this sound..A teachers basic starting rate is

Starting before 01/01/10 was €30,904..reduced to €27,814 for those starting after1/1/11

A garda's starting salary was €27,100 reduced to €25,745 on 01/01/201 (without allowances)


but ye are entitled to it right, as a teachers job is obviously harder than a Garda (who works the 12 months of the year) :rolleyes:


Were discussing garda allowances here

Well stay on topic so.

As my ICT skills are not up to scratch as Micropig has pointed out above I am unable to multi quote or whatever its called apologies so I just highlighted my responses.

You are really jumping the gun there Micropig. I never said my job was harder or that I am entitled to anything.
By the way just a quick question you referred to "YE" above I thought from our last thread it was "WE". I can post a link if you want:p

I believe any cut in the Gardai is disgraceful, however I believe like so many of the posters on this thread that they deserve every penny they get to be honest and believe they should get more.

I was reading recently about some banking official earning over €800,000 now this is where you should focus your protests, along with as someone mentioned earlier the politicians claiming every expense under the sun, not a Garda who works horrible hours, dealing with pure scum, earning the small sum of 40,000 or so. I refer to small there in terms of what huge wages that are paid for much safer jobs.

BTW Micropig we are on the same page to one respect, those in higher up ranks i.e. those on 60 grand plus should not need the rent allowance, and this extra should be given back into the wages of the people on the bottom of the ladder.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

As my ICT skills are not up to scratch as Micropig has pointed out above I am unable to multi quote or whatever its called apologies so I just highlighted my responses.

The thread I meant you to contribute to was the new one to be opened entitle bash micropig or whatever

seavill wrote: »

You are really jumping the gun there Micropig. I never said my job was harder or that I am entitled to anything.
By the way just a quick question you referred to "YE" above I thought from our last thread it was "WE". I can post a link if you want:p

I don't refer to we, as I do not feel I am entitled to complain about having a hard job, but unwilling to look at obvious solutions, apart from raising pay. So do you think it's fair that teachers basic rate is more than Garda (basic rate)?

seavill wrote: »

I believe any cut in the Gardai is disgraceful, however I believe like so many of the posters on this thread that they deserve every penny they get to be honest and believe they should get more.

Not when the cuts are all hitting equipment. They may deserve the money, I won't dispute it's a tough job, reality is, the money is not there. we see the effects of this, closure of stations and all the other things already highlighted in a previous post. The cuts being distributed unfairly on equipment etc and none on personnel, will effect most people in the country and the standard of protection provided by the Gardai. Taking a small allowance away from 14, 000* approx gardai, gives €52,000,000* approx back to the justice budget.

I know that they introduced a new tax on this in January, but this is not the same thing, as the tax money goes to Revenue.

*Exact figures are in previous posts

seavill wrote: »

I was reading recently about some banking official earning over €800,000 now this is where you should focus your protests, along with as someone mentioned earlier the politicians claiming every expense under the sun, not a Garda who works horrible hours, dealing with pure scum, earning the small sum of 40,000 or so. I refer to small there in terms of what huge wages that are paid for much safer jobs.

for these horrible hours, dealing with scum...what would be a safer job, better hours and with huge wages...let me think.....Teaching?:p

seavill wrote: »

BTW Micropig we are on the same page to one respect, those in higher up ranks i.e. those on 60 grand plus should not need the rent allowance, and this extra should be given back into the wages of the people on the bottom of the ladder.

Right, now we're getting somewhere. I'm not suggesting we take it from the already hit new recruits, maybe integrate it in to their salary, and tax it properly. But every member of the force receive this regardless of rank or salary...and it has nothing to do with "renting a place near to work etc" Historical evidence of how it arose is in a previous post.

They've spent many years for this to be kept an allowance, to benefit from the tax free status.

well now that it's identified as extra allowance, they can't say it's not when it's under threat

seavill

micropig wrote: »

The thread I meant you to contribute to was the new one to be opened entitle bash micropig or whatever

Apologies on that so, can you provide a link to that thread please to back up your comment

I don't refer to we, as I do not feel I am entitled to complain about having a hard job, but unwilling to look at obvious solutions, apart from raising pay. So do you think it's fair that teachers basic rate is more than Garda (basic rate)?

You seem to be inferring that I have said that I have a hard job. I did no such thing and don't appreciate you suggesting otherwise. I believe I did look at a solution take the money off the people on 50/60 grand plus rather than starting a thread implying that there is a problem with all gardai


Not when the cuts are all hitting equipment. They may deserve the money, I won't dispute it's a tough job, reality is, the money is not there. we see the effects of this, closure of stations and all the other things already highlighted in a previous post. The cuts being distributed unfairly on equipment etc and none on personnel, will effect most people in the country and the standard of protection provided by the Gardai. Taking a small allowance away from 14, 000* approx gardai, gives €52,000,000* approx back to the justice budget.

I know that they introduced a new tax on this in January, but this is not the same thing, as the tax money goes to Revenue.

*Exact figures are in previous posts

As I mentioned if you were more specific it would negate a lot of the disagreement you are having with a lot of people here. I would suggest that most people posting there referring to the fact that they believe that Gardai should get what they are getting are obviously referring to the Gardai that are on the lower wages etc. not the ones in high office. I think you are making arguments that do not need to be made. I think behind it all people are agreeing with you just not how you put it across.


for these horrible hours, dealing with scum...what would be a safer job, better hours and with huge wages...let me think.....Teaching?:p

I think we all know you are purposefully quoting me out of context there Please quote the full sentence if you want to quote me not the bit you want to twist to suit yourself. And just to let you know I am on decent wages not huge wages. As I have mentioned before you seem to have a problem with the ordinary people rather than the real problems.

And seen as you asked I think that most jobs are safer than that of the Gardai/army/firemen/even nurses. All these people have highly unsafe jobs that the majority of the rest of us could not even comprehend what they see and do on a daily basis.



Right, now we're getting somewhere. I'm not suggesting we take it from the already hit new recruits, maybe integrate it in to their salary, and tax it properly. But every member of the force receive this regardless of rank or salary...and it has nothing to do with "renting a place near to work etc" Historical evidence of how it arose is in a previous post.

They've spent many years for this to be kept an allowance, to benefit from the tax free status.

Would you get a grip, again like your previous thread these broad sweeping generalisations are obviously great fun for you to put out there and try to troll from and obviously get your kicks from. As explained by previous Gardai on this thread these people are surviving on this money not trying to think of ways to "benefit from the tax free status".

Why not just say be specific in what you are saying.

well now that it's identified as extra allowance, they can't say it's not when it's under threat

And really if you want to keep referring to teachers wages and keep bringing up the point that you seem to be trying to put across that I think I am entitled to everything and I am on huge wages blaa blaa blaa, I will throw one of your own comments back at you

"start a new thread to do that" stop trying to distract from this thread when you know you are obviously posting idiotic things.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

And really if you want to keep referring to teachers wages and keep bringing up the point that you seem to be trying to put across that I think I am entitled to everything and I am on huge wages blaa blaa blaa, I will throw one of your own comments back at you

"start a new thread to do that" stop trying to distract from this thread when you know you are obviously posting idiotic things.

Good contribution, but not really sure how it will practically contribute to keeping the same stations open? Can you clarify the link or put fuel in the helicopters?

More specific, please read the previous pages of the thread, facts are quoted and linked, I shouldn't need to spoon feed you

So most people agreed to cutting the higher earners, you reckon? Do you think there would be the numbers to lobby the government to remove this allowance from the higher earners, and get it redirected to resources?

What do you think about €12.4million being spent to pay off the taxes of Tax evading gardai? Are you happy for money from the justice budget to be spent on this?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Good contribution, but not really sure how it will practically contribute to keeping the same stations open? Can you clarify the link or put fuel in the helicopters?

More specific, please read the previous pages of the thread, facts are quoted and linked, I shouldn't need to spoon feed you

I won't even dignify those idiotic comments with a response (you actually amaze me more with every post and I thought you were beyond shocking me at this stage)

So most people agreed to cutting the higher earners, you reckon? Do you think there would be the numbers to lobby the government to remove this allowance from the higher earners, and get it redirected to resources?

yes

What do you think about €12.4million being spent to pay off the taxes of Tax evading gardai? Are you happy for money from the justice budget to be spent on this?

no

I have already stated take money off high earners across all sectors and put it to good use not spent on repaying debts to foreign institutions.
As you are aware Micropig I am also of the opinion of a pay cut across the board on teachers to again be redirected into resources.

Hope this clarifies my position for you seen as you seem to be having trouble understanding what I have been saying for some time.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

I have already stated take money off high earners across all sectors and put it to good use not spent on repaying debts to foreign institutions.
As you are aware Micropig I am also of the opinion of a pay cut across the board on teachers to again be redirected into resources.

Hope this clarifies my position for you seen as you seem to be having trouble understanding what I have been saying for some time.

Right, so we're in agreement to scrap the allowance...


Now what should be the cut off point?

I'd say €40,000?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Right, so we're in agreement to scrap the allowance...


Now what should be the cut off point?

I'd say €40,000?

No there is that misunderstanding back again, and back to my point that if you clarified your statements you may not look like a person who only posts idiotic things.

I would say you remove the allowance for people over a certain threshold, I am no financial expert like you but I am going to say 50,000

MagicSean

micropig wrote: »

Good contribution, but not really sure how it will practically contribute to keeping the same stations open? Can you clarify the link or put fuel in the helicopters?

More specific, please read the previous pages of the thread, facts are quoted and linked, I shouldn't need to spoon feed you

So most people agreed to cutting the higher earners, you reckon? Do you think there would be the numbers to lobby the government to remove this allowance from the higher earners, and get it redirected to resources?

What do you think about €12.4million being spent to pay off the taxes of Tax evading gardai? Are you happy for money from the justice budget to be spent on this?

Tax evading gardaí? The tax was calculated by a government department. This thread is getting beyond retarded. The reason resources are being cut is because Gardaí have already taken massive cuts to their salaries and overtime has already been all but abolished.

It's pretty clear who you are. Or is it pure coincidence that your join date and the time of giginos bans are identical. Get a life.

K-9

micropig wrote: »

What do you think about €12.4million being spent to pay off the taxes of Tax evading gardai? Are you happy for money from the justice budget to be spent on this?

If an employer incorrectly calculates PAYE/PRSI it is their problem. Its why you see the Employers name published in the list of defaulters after a Revenue Audit, not the employee. The employee isn't liable for Employer negligence.

Typical Indo spin which has a ready made market, some even count it as "research" like micropig. Any more dirt to fling?

funnyclub

What does this guy expect the Garda to work for minimum wage!! My own Sister is a Guard and she can barely life on what she gets.
She is currently pregnant and her superiors are expecting her to work the same hours as she was on due to staffing issues.
Of course she isnt doing that as its against the law but they were still putting pressure on her.
Sorry for going off topic but it was just an example to show its not a sweet little number new Garda ie joined the force in the last few year are on poor wages so any boost to their income to help them with their living exspenses is fine by me. Cut the big earners that sit on their arses in Rte and the likes.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

No there is that misunderstanding back again, and back to my point that if you clarified your statements you may not look like a person who only posts idiotic things.

I would say you remove the allowance for people over a certain threshold, I am no financial expert like you but I am going to say 50,000

You seem to be deliberately mis-understanding me

We are both in agreement that it should be removed for the high earners, as this term is subjective, I asked you to clarify what you would consider a high wage, I suggested €40,000,
lets go with your figure of €50,000, is this after all other allowances are included or is this basic salary, because a Garda on €50,000 base salary is earning a lot more when you take in to account shift allowance, boot allowance & a whole range of other allowances?

MagicSean wrote: »

Tax evading gardaí? The tax was calculated by a government department. This thread is getting beyond retarded.

It is every individuals responsibility to ensure they are tax complaint. A man evades tax by importing garlic labeling wrong and gets 7 years, tax evading Garda, get it paid out of the justice budget.


Irish independent 25/01/2012
GARDA bosses have been forced to raid their annual budget to pay €12.4m to the Revenue Commissioners, after a series of allowances to gardai were wrongly left untaxed.


Individual Gardai benefited from this, why should it have been paid out of the justice budget?

MagicSean wrote: »

The reason resources are being cut is because Gardaí have already taken massive cuts to their salaries and overtime has already been all but abolished.

The reason the resources are being cut is because the country is in severe financial straits. There is not enough money to keep going, the way we are going.

Taxation is not the same as cut. With a cut, the money stays within the justice department, but is spent differently, taxation, the money goes to the revenue department. Overtime was cut in order to save money. we can not afford to pay it. Now we can not afford sufficient resources, what do you suggest is done? Sit back an listen to the Gardai complain about not being able to do their job effectively over the coming years?


Any way in 20011 40 million in overtime was given out between cases that didn't go on and the obama&queen visits, not counting the overtime for cases that did go on, for being "all but abolished", they didn't do too badly last year

In 2011, GARDA OVERTIME accounted for €23.85 million of the almost €36 million security bill attached to the visits of Queen Elizabeth and US president Barack Obama to Ireland.

THE ANNUAL bill for Garda overtime for cases that do not go on is €17 million, more than the DPP’s total bill for counsel fees, the DPP, James Hamilton, told the conference

MagicSean wrote: »

It's pretty clear who you are. Or is it pure coincidence that your join date and the time of giginos bans are identical. Get a life.

Your detective skills fail here. I will happily verify who I am with an official of boards.ie, I have no affiliation with any one nor am I a re-reg, just a citizen of the country, who is interested in what's going on. I have no idea who giginos is, but I might search now, they may have had some good ideas. I will not however be leaving the porch light on to welcome angry mobs of flame carrying public servants, (but then I won't need to leave the light on because they they'll have their torches)

Will me "getting a life" solve the issue of inevitable situation of declining resources for AGS, unfolding before our eyes? Because if it will I will happily go and get one. I am interested

seavill

micropig wrote: »

You seem to be deliberately mis-understanding me

indeed I am not, would I respond in such a way as to try purposfully wind you up, I find that offensive;)

We are both in agreement that it should be removed for the high earners, as this term is subjective, I asked you to clarify what you would consider a high wage, I suggested €40,000,
lets go with your figure of €50,000, is this after all other allowances are included or is this basic salary, because a Garda on €50,000 base salary is earning a lot more when you take in to account shift allowance, boot allowance & a whole range of other allowances?

I might as well answer seen as you asked but 50,000 salary




It is every individuals responsibility to ensure they are tax complaint. A man evades tax by importing garlic labeling wrong and gets 7 years, tax evading Garda, get it paid out of the justice budget.

You are only making arguments for the sake of making arguments at this stage.
BTW you never answered the persons question about what you do. I find it rude to not respond to direct questions to be honest.
I tried to answer to the best of my knowledge but as you were so vague before I was not sure.

In fairness you did give it a bit of a break before you went TROLLING AGAIN, however I am disappointed in you that you cannot be a bit more original.

Standing back and looking at this thread as someone who followed your previous PS thread the similarities of your counter arguments etc. are amazing.

Even when people point out the blatently ovbious which was that employers do your tax and I for one trust that they are doing the right thing (maybe foolishly but as the revenue can make mistakes and refund, employers can make mistakes too and have to pay, this is called life I'm afraid, mistakes happen) you then throw out the stupid argument that people are responsible etc.
Seriously stop quoting the Irish Independent as its not the first time they lead you down the wrong path, and like I asked you to do before just go yea fair point I will move onto something different rather than try and remake the point a different way


Irish independent 25/01/2012
GARDA bosses have been forced to raid their annual budget to pay €12.4m to the Revenue Commissioners, after a series of allowances to gardai were wrongly left untaxed.


Individual Gardai benefited from this, why should it have been paid out of the justice budget?



The reason the resources are being cut is because the country is in severe financial straits. There is not enough money to keep going, the way we are going.

Taxation is not the same as cut. With a cut, the money stays within the justice department, but is spent differently, taxation, the money goes to the revenue department. Overtime was cut in order to save money. we can not afford to pay it. Now we can not afford sufficient resources, what do you suggest is done? Sit back an listen to the Gardai complain about not being able to do their job effectively over the coming years?


Any way in 20011 40 million in overtime was given out between cases that didn't go on and the obama&queen visits, not counting the overtime for cases that did go on, for being "all but abolished", they didn't do too badly last year

In 2011, GARDA OVERTIME accounted for €23.85 million of the almost €36 million security bill attached to the visits of Queen Elizabeth and US president Barack Obama to Ireland.

THE ANNUAL bill for Garda overtime for cases that do not go on is €17 million, more than the DPP’s total bill for counsel fees, the DPP, James Hamilton, told the conference



Your detective skills fail here. I will happily verify who I am with an official of boards.ie, I have no affiliation with any one nor am I a re-reg, just a citizen of the country, who is interested in what's going on. I have no idea who giginos is, but I might search now, they may have had some good ideas. I will not however be leaving the porch light on to welcome angry mobs of flame carrying public servants, (but then I won't need to leave the light on because they they'll have their torches)

Will me "getting a life" solve the issue of inevitable situation of declining resources for AGS, unfolding before our eyes? Because if it will I will happily go and get one. I am interested

**cough** TROLL **cough**

micropig

funnyclub wrote: »

What does this guy expect the Garda to work for minimum wage!! My own Sister is a Guard and she can barely life on what she gets.
She is currently pregnant and her superiors are expecting her to work the same hours as she was on due to staffing issues.
Of course she isnt doing that as its against the law but they were still putting pressure on her.
Sorry for going off topic but it was just an example to show its not a sweet little number new Garda ie joined the force in the last few year are on poor wages so any boost to their income to help them with their living exspenses is fine by me. Cut the big earners that sit on their arses in Rte and the likes.

No one is talking about them working for minimum wage, were are talking about a an allowance of approx €4,000, paid to each member of AGS, regardless of salary..


@ magicSean a 10% reduction in overtime for 2012 is far from "all but abolished"

The budget estimate figures show an overall saving of €79m for the full year of 2012, which includes cuts in overtime of 10%, subsistence and travel (figure not specified) and maintenance of garda stations.

The Minister said:

“I expect all public service bodies to address inefficiencies in their systems, and achieve additional cost savings, through the introduction of new working arrangements, including new rosters where applicable. In 2012, Public service bodies will have to achieve savings in respect of overtime of 10% and in allowances and premium payments of 5%. My Department will lead a review of allowances and premium payments across the public service, in consultation with all Government Departments, in early 2012.”

The review referred to is an internal Government examination. It has been made clear to the Government that we expect the Croke Park Agreement to be honoured in that there will be no further reductions to the pay and conditions of our members during the lifetime of the agreement 2010 – 2014.




Thank God the lifetime of that Croke Park Agreement ends in 2014:D

micropig

seavill wrote: »

**cough** TROLL **cough**

And calling me a troll isn't meant to be offensive? Yes because the most important thing about this discussion is I am a troll:rolleyes:

So some one who is grossing €50,000 (includes allowances), should still be entitled to receive this allowance, because without allowances, there basic wage is for example €45,000.





Maybe threads about the PS follow the same vein, as the usual answers apply

*We're entitled to it
*We need petrol to get to work
*It's always been that way
*Builders where earning more than us in 2007
*You're just bitter
*Developers, banks etc
*You're a troll

The landscape of Ireland has changed dramatically over the last few years. Simple, the money is not there for the wage bills. Everything but wages is being cut.

OK lets forget about the tax for a minute.....what about cutbacks hitting only resources?


I gave other sources alongside the indo, I haven't had any sources linked by other people to back up their point..so meh on this one. If it was totally outrageous, I'm sure someone would only be too happy to put them up and correct me.



Oh an the basic salary for a teacher is more than for a garda? Does this not strike you as unfair? The whole salary and allowances structure need to be revised throughout the public sector.

K-9

micropig wrote: »

It is every individuals responsibility to ensure they are tax complaint. A man evades tax by importing garlic labeling wrong and gets 7 years, tax evading Garda, get it paid out of the justice budget.

I'll inform the employees on my next Revenue Audit of this. You don't have a clue about context, never mind Revenue law. Micropig on boards.ie says if your employer incorrectly applied the PAYE/PRSI tax system ,it's all ye employee lots fault!

The garlic importer was a self employed individual, the onus is on him to know Revenue law like VAT, same as the Department of Justice and PAYE/PRSI on Gardai.


If the Unions told the Department these payments weren't taxable, doesn't matter. I've had employees tell me loads of crazy things down through the years, all ignored. The Revenue system changed 7/8 years ago as regards payments like these, it's up to the employer and payroll to read the many booklets and information published on it.

Its a bit like the garlic guy passing the bill to the Accountant or book-keeper who prepared the VAT returns! It's a stupid argument.

K-9

micropig wrote: »

And calling me a troll isn't meant to be offensive? Yes because the most important thing about this discussion is I am a troll:rolleyes:

So some one who is grossing €50,000 (includes allowances), should still be entitled to receive this allowance, because without allowances, there basic wage is for example €45,000.





Maybe threads about the PS follow the same vein, as the usual answers apply

*We're entitled to it
*We need petrol to get to work
*It's always been that way
*Builders where earning more than us in 2007
*You're just bitter
*Developers, banks etc
*You're a troll

The landscape of Ireland has changed dramatically over the last few years. Simple, the money is not there for the wage bills. Everything but wages is being cut.

OK lets forget about the tax for a minute.....what about cutbacks hitting only resources?


I gave other sources alongside the indo, I haven't had any sources linked by other people to back up their point..so meh on this one. If it was totally outrageous, I'm sure someone would only be too happy to put them up and correct me.



Oh an the basic salary for a teacher is more than for a garda? Does this not strike you as unfair? The whole salary and allowances structure need to be revised throughout the public sector.

Maybe you should change the thread title seeing as this thread is about PS pay, not Garda Rent Allowance.

seavill

micropig wrote: »

And calling me a troll isn't meant to be offensive? Yes because the most important thing about this discussion is I am a troll:rolleyes:

So some one who is grossing €50,000 (includes allowances), should still be entitled to receive this allowance, because without allowances, there basic wage is for example €45,000.

you asked my opinion I gave it you disagree with me but why persist to argue the point. You asked I answered. Different opinions get over it. just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean You are right or I am right



Maybe threads about the PS follow the same vein, as the usual answers apply

*We're entitled to it
*We need petrol to get to work
*It's always been that way
*Builders where earning more than us in 2007
*You're just bitter
*Developers, banks etc
*You're a troll

The landscape of Ireland has changed dramatically over the last few years. Simple, the money is not there for the wage bills. Everything but wages is being cut.

OK lets forget about the tax for a minute.....what about cutbacks hitting only resources?


I gave other sources alongside the indo, I haven't had any sources linked by other people to back up their point..so meh on this one. If it was totally outrageous, I'm sure someone would only be too happy to put them up and correct me.



Oh an the basic salary for a teacher is more than for a garda? Does this not strike you as unfair? The whole salary and allowances structure need to be revised throughout the public sector.

you mention basic salary here but go on about salary after allowances in your first point above.
I do not have overtime allowances etc. in the teaching profession (and before you even start i am not giving out about this)
So I am just trying to recall from the top of my head you mentioned earlier that a teacher starting off was something like 27,000 a Garda was something like 25,000 plus allowances, so in reality take away the term basic salary, in the end of the day the Garda will earn more in allowances/etc. than the teacher will over the course of a year so I dont get your point, sorry.

Can I suggest that maybe instead of constantly slagging off Public Servants on an anonymous website where anything you say will make absolutely no difference to the country, why not get into politics and make the changes that you are so adamant that are right. If you are such an expert on all things financial in relation to the public service I for one would back you as over the years the Ministers have made a bit of a mess of it. Get off your backside and do something about it rather than bitching on a website.

seavill

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe you should change the thread title seeing as this thread is about PS pay, not Garda Rent Allowance.

Hahahaha excellent post. if I could thank something 4 or 5 times I would. Well done K-9

micropig

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe you should change the thread title seeing as this thread is about PS pay, not Garda Rent Allowance.

Are Garda not public sector workers?

seavill wrote: »

Can I suggest that maybe instead of constantly slagging off Public Servants on an anonymous website where anything you say will make absolutely no difference to the country, why not get into politics and make the changes that you are so adamant that are right. If you are such an expert on all things financial in relation to the public service I for one would back you as over the years the Ministers have made a bit of a mess of it. Get off your backside and do something about it rather than bitching on a website.

Believe me, I might just contact the minister regarding this issue, just like I did with the teachers. I am not an expert on all things financial, and never claimed to be...but I can see obvious flaws in the system.How do you know what I do or don't do about things? you have no idea who I am or what I do, Maybe I am out campaigning about these issues everyday, you never know


As for saying I disagree over the €50,000 I'm not, I was just asking for clarification whether this would be gross before or after allowances, because there is a difference

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Believe me, I might just contact the minister regarding this issue, just like I did with the teachers. I am not an expert on all things financial, and never claimed to be...but I can see obvious flaws in the system.How do you know what I do or don't do about things? you have no idea who I am or what I do, Maybe I am out campaigning about these issues everyday, you never know

And if you don't mind me asking how did that go for you, contacting the minister. Did you make any progress or headway on the issue.

Yea I didn't mean it as the way it came across, I meant that you are seeing these obvious things in relation to financial issues, my point just was that constantly going on about them here does not really have any impact, where as getting elected and making the change does. Do you agree?

From our dealings, you were a teacher that has taught in other countries, and has been looking to set up your own sales business working from home, so I will presume to be able to do this you are no longer a teacher. That is what I know about you seen as you asked. (again answering questions that were asked, pure politeness;))

micropig

seavill wrote: »

And if you don't mind me asking how did that go for you, contacting the minister. Did you make any progress or headway on the issue.

Yea I didn't mean it as the way it came across, I meant that you are seeing these obvious things in relation to financial issues, my point just was that constantly going on about them here does not really have any impact, where as getting elected and making the change does. Do you agree?

From our dealings, you were a teacher that has taught in other countries, and has been looking to set up your own sales business working from home, so I will presume to be able to do this you are no longer a teacher. That is what I know about you seen as you asked. (again answering questions that were asked, pure politeness;))

So it's better to sit back and say nothing, and quietly let the farce of what is this country continue as is?

Fine do that, but the gardai have no right to complain then, that they have insufficient resources to do their job properly and need more wages because the job has become unbearable

At least little johnny has his new playstation:p That gives great job satisfaction.



Financial issues are what it's about



In other words you know nothing about me:p

Re:you answering my question out of politeness, you answered a question that wasn't asked...maybe you need to read the question thoroughly before attempting an answer, as I'm sure you tell your students;)

seavill

micropig wrote: »

So it's better to sit back and say nothing, and quietly let the farce of what is this country continue as is?

Fine do that, but the gardai have no right to complain then, that they have insufficient resources to do their job properly and need more wages because the job has become unbearable

At least little johnny has his new playstation:p That gives great job satisfaction.



Financial issues are what it's about



In other words you know nothing about me:p

I asked you two questions in my previous post you did not answer either, easier to just rant off some bull**** I suppose.

In fact I said the complete opposite I said get elected and actually make the change. Don't know where you got sit back and do nothing. I'll put it down to the time of night.

I find the playstation comment extremely insulting to the hard working Gardai in Ireland.

Well you started a thread about starting up your own business selling directly to shops so fair enough there. Am I wrong on this??

You also said in the teacher bashing thread that you were a teacher. Did I get that wrong also?
Could you please answer those two questions, along with the last two I asked in the previous post if it is not too much hassle

K-9

micropig wrote: »

Are Garda not public sector workers?

Check your OP?

Your OP was about the Garda Rent Allowance which you've now expanded to teachers pay, all the while lecturing others for going off topic.

I see you ignored the my other post.

Nodin

micropig wrote: »

Absolutely, but that's another thread....Every thread can't be about everything. There is excess in many parts of the public sector, reminiscent of the Celtic Tiger era, absolutely look at all those things you say in another thread..I would like to focus on justying why someone on was wage of for example €42,000+ needs rent allowance on top of their salary, when at the same time, basic equipment needs are being hit.

Its not "another thread". Its a legitamate question as to why you want to undermine the pay of a force you claim to be so interested in, rather than seek the required cash from any number of other sources.

al28283

yawn

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse

Having read some of the comments, im guessing there is more of a tit for tat going on for most of it!
Lets keep it real here.
The majority of jobs now have unsociable hours, well a good lot anyway.
Doctors,nurses,hotels,bars, restaurants, hospital workers/ factories, the list goes on really!
The fact that they get rent allowance is a joke, a bad one at that. We all work, we all have bills, rent etc. Learn to live within your means.
There in a guaranteed job with good perks. Yes they deal with scumbags, but they also deal with nice people too. The hols are good, sickpay is good.
In every line of work you deal with s.itheads!
Government, grow a pair and wise up!! Wether your on 25 k or 40 k, getting rent allowance is a joke!!!
anyone who disagrees is either a guard or good friends with.

martin kelly.

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

Having read some of the comments, im guessing there is more of a tit for tat going on for most of it!
Lets keep it real here.
The majority of jobs now have unsociable hours, well a good lot anyway.
Doctors,nurses,hotels,bars, restaurants, hospital workers/ factories, the list goes on really!
The fact that they get rent allowance is a joke, a bad one at that. We all work, we all have bills, rent etc. Learn to live within your means.
There in a guaranteed job with good perks. Yes they deal with scumbags, but they also deal with nice people too. The hols are good, sickpay is good.
In every line of work you deal with s.itheads!
Government, grow a pair and wise up!! Wether your on 25 k or 40 k, getting rent allowance is a joke!!!
anyone who disagrees is either a guard or good friends with.

+1

al28283

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

Having read some of the comments, im guessing there is more of a tit for tat going on for most of it!
Lets keep it real here.
The majority of jobs now have unsociable hours, well a good lot anyway.
Doctors,nurses,hotels,bars, restaurants, hospital workers/ factories, the list goes on really!
The fact that they get rent allowance is a joke, a bad one at that. We all work, we all have bills, rent etc. Learn to live within your means.
There in a guaranteed job with good perks. Yes they deal with scumbags, but they also deal with nice people too. The hols are good, sickpay is good.
In every line of work you deal with s.itheads!
Government, grow a pair and wise up!! Wether your on 25 k or 40 k, getting rent allowance is a joke!!!
anyone who disagrees is either a guard or good friends with.

I disagree and I don't know any Guards personally

hondasam

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

Lets keep it real here.
The majority of jobs now have unsociable hours, well a good lot anyway.
Doctors,nurses,hotels,bars, restaurants, hospital workers/ factories, the list goes on really!
anyone who disagrees is either a guard or good friends with.

What do you call unsociable hours?

Paulzx

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

The majority of jobs now have unsociable hours, .

I'd look the word "majority" up in the dictionary if i was you

MagicSean

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

Having read some of the comments, im guessing there is more of a tit for tat going on for most of it!
Lets keep it real here.
The majority of jobs now have unsociable hours, well a good lot anyway.
Doctors,nurses,hotels,bars, restaurants, hospital workers/ factories, the list goes on really!
The fact that they get rent allowance is a joke, a bad one at that. We all work, we all have bills, rent etc. Learn to live within your means.
There in a guaranteed job with good perks. Yes they deal with scumbags, but they also deal with nice people too. The hols are good, sickpay is good.
In every line of work you deal with s.itheads!
Government, grow a pair and wise up!! Wether your on 25 k or 40 k, getting rent allowance is a joke!!!
anyone who disagrees is either a guard or good friends with.

Could you name one job where you have to work 48 hours in the space of 112 hours? Or even one that comes close?

If you're wondering about the math that's 6 8hour shifts between a Monday night and Saturday morning.

Nodin

Mightymouse vs Dangermouse wrote: »

...........
There in a guaranteed job with good perks. Yes they deal with scumbags, but they also deal with nice people too. The hols are good, sickpay is good.
In every line of work you deal with s.itheads!
.............

To be honest, that just says you've no clue to me.

micropig

Well as it turns out they don't need tax, insurance or a driving licence either and are free to knock down & kill people and get away with, I'm surprised they don't get an allowance for this too

tayto lover

micropig wrote: »

Well as it turns out they don't need tax, insurance or a driving licence either and are free to knock down & kill people and get away with, I'm surprised they don't get an allowance for this too

Well that post just proves that you lost the argument and threw your own Play Station out of your cot. You seem to be a sad, vindictive little person.

Agus

MagicSean wrote: »

Could you name one job where you have to work 48 hours in the space of 112 hours? Or even one that comes close?

If you're wondering about the math that's 6 8hour shifts between a Monday night and Saturday morning.

Junior hospital doctors.

Freddie59

micropig wrote: »

Just reading this report about benchmarking in 2007

Came across this little gem


"Allowances payable to public service grades fall into two broad categories. Some allowances are paid to all members of a grade/rank as part of their conditions of service. Examples of such payments are the rent allowance for members of the Garda Sıochana and prison officer grades, the
military service allowance for members of the defence forces and a qualification allowance for teachers"

Can anyone clarify if Gardai and prison officers, already on handsome salaries and extra allowances for working non-sociable hours etc.........

Recieve Rent Allowance...WTF?:eek:

FIREFIGHTERS also receive it.

al28283

micropig wrote: »

Well as it turns out they don't need tax, insurance or a driving licence either and are free to knock down & kill people and get away with, I'm surprised they don't get an allowance for this too

Is that policy or a one off case you're using as a very childish and silly argument?

hondasam

micropig wrote: »

Well as it turns out they don't need tax, insurance or a driving licence either and are free to knock down & kill people and get away with, I'm surprised they don't get an allowance for this too

Do you not think that is a bit childish especially when you know it's not true.

micropig

Freddie59 wrote: »

FIREFIGHTERS also receive it.

Firefighters don't wait at the end of the road until the fire goes out before intervening

al28283 wrote: »

Is that policy or a one off case you're using as a very childish and silly argument?

And your argument for some earning €40,000+ was.....?

Yawn

Good argument
Is this indicative of the standard of intelligence of our Gardai?

thewintermute

I'll happilly chip in tor the troll allowance.

dirtyden

MagicSean wrote: »

Could you name one job where you have to work 48 hours in the space of 112 hours? Or even one that comes close?

If you're wondering about the math that's 6 8hour shifts between a Monday night and Saturday morning.

You consider this a hardship? I have every respect for the Gardai and think they do a fantastic job on the whole, but 6 8 hr shifts in a row is hardly excessive.

I do shift work, 4 13 hr days in a row, 12 hr shifts plus 30 mins each side for handovers. This would not be uncommon in many industries.