Considering our history of defiance and revolution, why are we now so apathetic?

Amtmann

munkifisht wrote: »

Can I take it then that you disagree and believe that there is a significant proportion that are politically active? If so could you expand that point?

No - I just don't like how from the outset you contend that "we" have a history of defiance and revolution. I certainly don't; do you? Do you know anyone, anyone at all, who engaged in revolution or acts of significant political defiance (whatever that is)? And if you do, how representative are they of the populace?

Also, you're referring to a particular historical narrative that is not very relevant to 2012. And even when the revolution and defiance that you refer to were current, they were conducted by a small minority of people.

In general, I don't like national and ethnic generalisations. They are based by and large on imagined histories and imagined communities. In the context you're referring to, there is no "we" in any nuanced, significant way. The recession doesn't even affect everyone, and even if it did, there would be no group consensus about what the state should do. I find your use of "we" unrealistic.

djpbarry

john reilly wrote: »

and yet in five years time they will probably be better off than us.

Because?

K-9

munkifisht wrote: »

I do enjoy a good rant

Anyway, the article there is a buisness article and is only reporting that oil has been found. As any 8 year old knows, FF gave away for free any exploration rights to oil and gas in this country in the 80s. One of the last act they did in government was to give away billions of euros worth of exploration licences. One when to this company.

Considering this is the first significant find and it's nearly a quarter of a century later, hardly giving it away.

If the company today decide they want to develop this field (they will, oil prices are heading in one direction and the price/l is expected to top €2 before the end of this year) they are only required to pay a piffy 20% on any net profit they make, that is net profit mind, so there is almost 0 risk. I suppose an analogy could be made here with the bondholders. The logic behind this move was that our oil and gas fields were so pathetic that no one would develop them without this kind of incentive. The truth as we now know is quite different.

Again the first significant oil find here ever so I'm afraid logic supports the Governments stance as this is the first significant find and it hasn't even been fully explored yet.

Its a 25% tax rate which can be increased to 40% if it exceeds expectations. As for the price, you realise the the main reason this find is economical to drill is exactly because of high oil prices?

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

There are a lot of problems in this thread. OP, you latched onto an interesting topic for discussion, but...

munkifisht wrote: »

...but today, as the rest of Europe rises up to defy unjust austerity measures we in Ireland are happy to let that suppurating little worm Edna to go cap in hand to the EU to beg for a token respite in the from of a longer period of time to repay the so-called promissory notes and we as a people are quite happy to let this type of thing go on. Hearing his pathetic whinge to our Kaiser overlords on the radio today reminded me of Oliver Twists "Please sir, can I have some more" line...

munkifisht wrote: »

We voted for Fianna Mash-up (seriously, what's the flipping difference between FF or FG except for Cowen) or Labor a little over a year ago, and we will wait 4 more years until we can make another collective mistake.

This kind of posting is inflammatory, and the OP was an extended rant - a generally well-crafted rant, but a rant.

Generally rants in this forum are shut down, and a suggestion is made to the OP that perhaps starting a blog would be a better use of their time and energy. But people seemed interested in the debate, and so it continued.

But then we get posts like this:

munkifisht wrote: »

No, the truth makes it true. The fact it's a fact makes it true. Surely you are not that ignorant, but lets for the sake of argument say you are.

munkifisht wrote: »

But yes, you are right, we don't own all the fish in the sea, that belongs to the Spanish fishermen, but why stop there. What about our land, surely the people don't have a right to claim soil that came from the Iberian peninsula originally, Spain owns the land too, so you are spot on. The oil surely doesn't belong to the people. Why should we potato munching bog hoppers be entitled to a cent from the potential billions under our feet. It's not like we need it or anything. I mean, no other country has had any benefit from their luck of their homelands geography. You, you've convinced me, we don't deserve the oil, we should let whatever polluting bstrds who want to drill our coast lines like Swiss cheese and lay ruin to fossil coral beds do whatever the hell they like for free.

munkifisht wrote: »

We in terms of a nation or as a society. It's a generilisation but I thought it would take too long to list everyone by name

munkifisht wrote: »

As any 8 year old knows, FF gave away for free any exploration rights to oil and gas in this country in the 80s.

Sarcasm and bullying. Clearly the thread should have been shut down from the beginning, because there was nothing in the tone of the OP to suggest that this would be a civil debate.

munkifisht wrote: »

I do enjoy a good rant

Generally we do not, and insulting, sarcastic rants are particularly unwelcome.

I'm sorry to the other posters here who wanted to have a real conversation about this, but thread closed.