PM2

patsat

I'm looking for advice about a Schmidt and Bender PM2.

I am thinking about getting one for my 25-06 stalking rifle. Now I know there is no questioning a Pm2's quality but are they suited for stalking or is there better suited scopes on the market for similar money??

I was thinking about a new duralyt or a second hand Kaps but just wondering should I splash out on the pm2

I have heard they are heavy but does this cause a problem??

It wasn't me!

I'm going to be changing my stalking scope, personally, for weight reasons. You might not mind carrying it all the time but why would you carry heavier than you need anyway? Also, having a heavy weight on top of the rifle does nothing for balance. That's a personal thing though, and the PMII is really heavy. the most basic 3-12x50 is 720g. The military version of that is 860g and the 4-16x50 and 5-25x56 range from 933g to 1080g for perspective, I'm looking at going to a 2.5-10x or 3-10x with a 42mm objective weighing between 320g and 440g and that's plenty for me. Like I said, I like light rifles and rigs. No questioning the quality of the PMII but it weighs a ton. The Schmidt and Bender Klassik 4-16x50 I'll be looking to sell is about 750g so I've certainly been there. Love the quality, just not the weight, but while I've a guy who gets first refusal on it, if he's not interested once the exams are done and the summer's here, I'll stick it up and you're more than welcome to have a look and see whether it suits you and what you're doing.

Constab2

Just sold a S&B Illum Classic because I found the scope too heavy & had the rifle out of kilter weight wise,S&B is top notch quality & if you do get one you won't be disappointed.I got myself a Swarovski Z5 5-25X52 & liked it so much got another for the 223,sold all the Zeiss I had.In my opinion the Swaro is the best hunting scope that price bracket has too offer.Weight is an issue with S&B but not with the Swaro.Only one I will stick with in future.

patsat

Thanks lads thats exactly what I was worried about, I'm hoping to have the rifle as lightweight as possible so really I think I will stay away from the pm2 now

It's the 4-16x50 model so it would be fairly heavy, I'll keep looking!

tac foley

Do you really need a mildot military scope for deestalking?

Do you need a zooming scope at all?

Do you need one with a ranging reticle?

Do you need one with a bullet drop compensator?

Do you need one with an optical performance that extends your day at each end?

Do you need target turrets?

You you want a combo that looks really spiffy and impresses the heck out of all your shooting buddies, or do you want to be the one with the full larder?

Most deer-stalking can be done with a simple ranging reticle fixed power scope of around x8 or so, and, for extending the day, around a 50-56mm object glass, using the ideal eye/glass ratio of 1:7.

May I commend to you the following LIGHTWEIGHT scopes -

Burris.

tac

De_Tomaso

PM II scopes are great in all but one respect and that is weight. I use this scope anyway, but I use my rifle for other things also (Long range) and not only stalking. I am however seriously considering switching my PM II 3-12x50 to Premier Light Tactical 3-15x50. Not only because of weight.


For you, if you are not a tactical shooter I would look at Kahles Helia C scopes and Swarovski Z3 and Z5 series. I prefer Kahles since Helia C 2.5-10x50 weights only 490g and 1.5-6x42 weights 460g. Optically they are both excellent.

Other European optics like Kaps and Docter weight a bit more but have also great value/money ration.

patsat

tac foley wrote: »

You you want a combo that looks really spiffy and impresses the heck out of all your shooting buddies, or do you want to be the one with the full larder?

tac

I have a Nightforce NXS on my other rifle for that! :P

Ya I was aware that its not perfect for stalking but was just interested to see what others thought.

I know Burris are a good make and great value for money but whilst I have the money I may aswel get the best I can afford! :cool:

I'll have a ring around to see what dealers have otherwise I may take the Kaps

tac foley

OK.

That's what choice is all about.

tac

4200fps

European all the way is all i ever say but you will pay for quality but buying second hand you will have a wide choice of good optics with 800euro+

patsat

Wel I ended up heading down to Ejg off here today to have a look at the Kaps 2.5-10x50 illuminated he has for sale.

I compared it side by side with a schmidt and bender zenith and I have to say that it was every bit as good if not better than the s&b optically and way lighter than it!

And with the price it was going for a high quality, german-made, illuminated scope I couldn't say no! :cool:

Thats the scope ticked off my list ne way only stock,mod and mounts to go! :P

4200fps

What kind of stock and mod will you go for? Tikka have lovely stocks so why you changing if you dont mind me asking?

patsat

It's a t3 lite, not the greatest of stocks, will do the job fine but nothing compared to the stocks available from Pse composites

So it wil be a lightweight carbon stock from Ejg and a lightweight aluminium mod!

Not fully decided on the make of mod yet tho but handling the roedale mods today and they are very lightweight.

Had a 6 baffle aluminium one on an off a tikka and couldn't tell the difference with the rifle shouldered!

Hoping to get a roedale mod with the first 2 baffles made from stainless and the rest aluminium, that will hopefully prolong the life of it!

4200fps

Keep away from aluminium mods as the exit/end piece and baffles eventually wear away as aluminium is too soft which is its only down fall but its a good metal to reduce weight . Stainless or Titanium mods is best. I'm going for a T8 as its light also its the only one i can find that sleeves down the barrel nicely which adds around 2 inches to your rifle compared to other mods i viewed they add much more to the over all length. The T8 have great performance BUT they will rust if you don't mind them and only cost 250euros. Your dead right about the tikka t3 lite stock its not built for abuse

lb1981

patsat wrote: »

It's a t3 lite, not the greatest of stocks, will do the job fine but nothing compared to the stocks available from Pse composites

So it wil be a lightweight carbon stock from Ejg and a lightweight aluminium mod!

Not fully decided on the make of mod yet tho but handling the roedale mods today and they are very lightweight.

Had a 6 baffle aluminium one on an off a tikka and couldn't tell the difference with the rifle shouldered!

Hoping to get a roedale mod with the first 2 baffles made from stainless and the rest aluminium, that will hopefully prolong the life of it!

I have that roedale stainless mod on my t3 and am very happy with it and i just bought a Kaps aswell great clear glass and super value for money

It wasn't me!

Congrats on the optic choice. I have a fair of Kaps 8x42 binos and they're superb. Easily the equal of my S&B variable on the same power, and not a whole lot of money. Absolutely delighted with them and ejg got them in for me as well. Great product.

Hibrion

Have a look at the sonic 45 moderator. Definitely worth consideration. I've put one on my new T3.

patsat

Ya highly impressed with the Kaps I must say, had it out at first light this mornin and it was worlds ahead of my Nxs!

In terms of gettin a mod I dunno what way to go! Don't want to ruin the balance of the rifle by getting a stainless one although the aluminium one from roedale is fairly light too.

Had a look at titanium ones but at £595 I'm not so sure! :eek:

zeissman

If you are only using the rifle for stalking a aluminium mod should last a long time.
I bought the stainless roedale mod because I enjoy a bit of target shooting also.
I use it with 4 baffles when stalking so weight is not too bad but im still thinking of buying an aluminium one as well.
An aluminium mod with one or two steel baffles could be your best bet.

foxer3640

Hi all. I use an atec alu mod on my tikka t3 hunter in 25-06. Its really light and does a fair job on the noise but not as effective as a t8 which iv also tried. It adds around 6 inchs to the gun but the barrel is only 20 inchs so its not bad. I only use mine for foxing at night and dont bother with it for stalking. You'd be lucky to even see a deer on my permissions so i dont worry about the noise. Hope this helps.