Outdoor Sockets & Armoured Cable?

turninggreen

Hi,

Just wondering if somebody can help with following question. I had an armoured cable installed in the garden by electrician when building the house. Its got its own indoor switch and connected to mains fuse box. Only getting around to now looking at installing a double outdoor socket. I have looked at various options including twin sockets (on a spike) IP56 & IP66 rated and also IP56 & IP66 enclosed weatherproof boxes. The question I have is with the armoured cable - does it need any special connectors -(it has the normal blue/brown/yellow wiring ), can I just connect to the outdoor socket with the neutral/live/earth terminals? Don't want to purchase sockets to find that I need something extra for armoured cable. Thanks in advance.

chrismon

What type of switch is it connected to? Is it a light switch. If it is, you cannot connect a socket to the circuit. Do you know what size the cable is?

M cebee

yes it may be off a lighting cct + no rcd

although any decent electrician will rcd/rcbo garden cables these days

paddy147

I had all the above dont in my garden.

Double socket installed in front garden and double sockets installed in my back garden.These were/ware for poind pups,garden lights and outdoor garden tools.

I had help from the members of this forum here.

I will post pics later on of the install,from RCBO at mains fuse board,to running 2.5 T&E to running the 2.5 SWA and then installing the outdoor sockets (MK IP65)

Also fitted a 2 gang double pole switch in the kitchen,so that I can swithch on or off the pond pump and garden lights from their own switches in the kitchen.

Double pole fused switched spur for the front garden socket.

Means the front socket can be switched off,when not in use and no neighbours can get free leccy out of the socket when cutting their gardens,when Im not around.

Pics to follow.

turninggreen

Hi all,

Many thanks for the quick replies. It is off a light circuit and there is no rcd. Its not as simple as I thought then (always the case !!!). You have raised enough unknowns for me, time to contact an electrician.

Thanks again

The original cable was probably just meant to be a switch wire for lighting.

paddy147

turninggreen wrote: »

Hi all,

Many thanks for the quick replies. It is off a light circuit and there is no rcd. Its not as simple as I thought then (always the case !!!). You have raised enough unknowns for me, time to contact an electrician.

Thanks again

A light circit being used for outdoor sockets??(Runs away....:eek: )

So that would typically be 1.5 T&E for the lighting then having 2.5 SWA and outdoor sockets off it and then no seperate RCD or RCBO.

Major no no there.

paddy147

2.5 SWA from its own seperate double pole switch plate in kitchen.

Switch plate is wired back to mains fuse board with 2.5 T&E and has its own seperate 20 amp Hagar RCBO.

The SWA is then run from double pole swich out to garden wall and MK double socket box (IP65).I can swith on and off the pond pump and garden lights from the comfort of the kitchen.Its al on a seperate system to eveything else.

Same way with front garden,but I also have a fused switched spur installed in the front porch so that I can cut the power to the front garden socket,when its not in use (leaf blower,power washer,diy tools).

This stops anybody getting free leccy off of it,when Im out of the house.

turninggreen

OK, I have an electrician coming w/end to look over cabling and circuit but worst case scenario and it turns out I have a light circuit and not a socket circuit, anybody any ideas on a reasonable price for installing twin sockets in the garden? Thanks.

chrismon

Its impossible to say without seeing a job first. Have you got paths/tarmac all around your house? Things like this can make a serious difference to the price.

paddy147

chrismon wrote: »

Its impossible to say without seeing a job first. Have you got paths/tarmac all around your house? Things like this can make a serious difference to the price.

Thats the thing,alot of it will be down to possible extra labour costs (depending on work to be done).

I dont think too many sparks will want to dig up a path or dig a big trench down a patio or a garden.

Also lifting floorboards to access a cable run through the house is another thing to consider.

So you might be looking at doing it yourself or a builder,with regards the hard larbour

dolittle

worst case
if the swa goes back to the distribution board
get your electrician to install a 6 or 10 amp rcbo/rcd for that circuit
prob the easiest and safest way out of it
with no drama

M cebee

dolittle wrote: »

worst case
if the swa goes back to the distribution board
get your electrician to install a 6 or 10 amp rcbo/rcd for that circuit
prob the easiest and safest way out of it
with no drama

ya except he'll have a 13amp socket on a 6/10amp circuit and a long run of 1.5

I doubt the swa is a separate cct anyhow

paddy147

dolittle wrote: »

worst case
if the swa goes back to the distribution board
get your electrician to install a 6 or 10 amp rcbo/rcd for that circuit
prob the easiest and safest way out of it
with no drama

This is bad advice,sorry but it is.








How do you figure that then??

You dont know what spec the SWA is,or do you??

He may very well have to run a new T&E cable from mains fuse board to switch plate (1.5 T&E will be uselsess) and a new SWA if its not the correct spec (2.5 T&E from fuse board to switch plate and at least 4 core 2.5 square SWA for a double socket and to be able to switch it from its own double switch plate)

Its a double power socket that the OP is trying to install outdoors,so it will most likely be 13amp fused plugs that will most likely be used in the outdoor sockets.Garden tools like lawnmowers,strimmers and hedge cutters are 13 amp plugs,as are power/diy tools,as are power washers.

So how will a 6 or 10 amp RCBO mean no drama then???

So it will be a case of Install at least 20 amp RCBO.

paddy147

turninggreen wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering if somebody can help with following question. I had an armoured cable installed in the garden by electrician when building the house. Its got its own indoor switch and connected to mains fuse box. Only getting around to now looking at installing a double outdoor socket. I have looked at various options including twin sockets (on a spike) IP56 & IP66 rated and also IP56 & IP66 enclosed weatherproof boxes. The question I have is with the armoured cable - does it need any special connectors -(it has the normal blue/brown/yellow wiring ), can I just connect to the outdoor socket with the neutral/live/earth terminals? Don't want to purchase sockets to find that I need something extra for armoured cable. Thanks in advance.

OP,dont do anything yourself,as you dont know what the original sparks has done or fitted.

Get a fully registered,insured and certified sparks in to assess the situation and give you a breakdown of costs,and then report back here with that sparks findings.

Im sure everyone here will then be able to help you out with what ever information you post.

But dont go buying any sockets or fittings just yet (especially when there not even an RCBO or RCD fitted).

Wait to see what the sparks says to you.

Regards.:)

M cebee

a spur off a radial cct socket on an external wall will do

don't think there's any rule says you have a dedicated radial just cos it's an outside socket

unlikely any competent spark would fit a 6/10amp rcd/rcbo unless it was a dedicated socket for a christmas tree or something light use
in which case there's no particular hazard at all

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

a spur off a radial cct socket on an external wall will do

don't think there's any rule says you have a dedicated radial just cos it's an outside socket

unlikely any competent spark would fit a 6/10amp rcd/rcbo unless it was a dedicated socket for a christmas tree or something light use
in which case there's no particular hazard at all

Yea a double pole switch off the socket as well i usually do in theim situations. Eliminate the outer circuit then if there are ever any tripping RCD problems.

And as for the 10 amp RCBO on a 1.5 circuit for a socket, i see no problem there either if its light loads. Too big a load will simply trip the MCB.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yea a double pole switch off the socket as well i usually do in theim situations. Eliminate the outer circuit then if there are ever any tripping RCD problems.

And as for the 10 amp RCBO on a 1.5 circuit for a socket, i see no problem there either if its light loads. Too big a load will simply trip the MCB.

And if the OP or anyone else is ever using anything that has a 13 amp fuse in the future,like a outdoor grill/BBQ,lawnmower,hedge trimmer or any sort of power tools or power washer,then theres going to be a problem with tripping out.

To me its a case of do it right 1st time around,or dont do it at all.

And if it means rewire and RCBO propperly,then thats the only way it should be done.

Thats what I learned from various trades people and also from the electrical forum here and the likes of you.

Do it right,or dont do it at all.



Regards.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

And if the OP or anyone else is ever using anything that has a 13 amp fuse in the future,like a outdoor grill/BBQ,lawnmower,hedge trimmer or any sort of power tools or power washer,then theres going to be a problem with tripping out.

To me its a case of do it right 1st time around,or dont do it at all.

And if it means rewire and RCBO propperly,then thats the only way it should be done.

Thats what I learned from various trades people and also from the electrical forum here and the likes of you.

Do it right,or dont do it at all.



Regards.

We were talking about danger wise paddy. You think i would run in a 1.5 for sockets? Obviously not, its not good. You should read into the posts properly, even if not worded the best.

Are you now telling us there is somethiong wrong with spurring from a house socket for a socket in the garden also?

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

We were talking about danger wise paddy. You think i would run in a 1.5 for sockets? Obviously not, its not good. You should read into the posts properly, even if not worded the best.

Well pardon me for reading what "you actually posted" and said about a 10 amp RCBO with 1.5mm squared and an outdoor "socket" and a bigger load tripping.



Sorry for replying to your post sir,very sorry sir.It wont happen again sir.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Well pardon me for reading what "you actually posted" and said about a 10 amp RCBO with 1.5mm squared and an outdoor "socket" and a bigger load tripping.



Sorry for replying to your post sir,very sorry sir.It wont happen again sir.

Well paddy your the wannabe electrician, while i am finished with it thankfully. So go knock yourself out there.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well paddy your the wannabe electrician, while i am finished with it thankfully. So go knock yourself out there.

No need for insulting or mocking comments like that Robbie,no need at all.


All I can do is read what you actually posted.Im not a mind reader either.

If I was an electrician than I would not post threads here to ask for any advice here on this forum.




PS-For the record,Im not an electrician,and have no wish to be either.Im very happy in my chosen profession.I do have a right to post here though and make observations.

Or am I not allowed to now,because Im not an electrican??

Bruthal

very sorry sir.It wont happen again sir

:pac:

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

No need for insulting or mocking comments like that Robbie,no need at all.

All I can do is read what you actually posted.Im not a mind reader either.

If I was an electrician than I would not post threads here to ask for any advice here on this forum.

Paddy, all i said was, if there are light loads, a socket on a 10A rcbo will be ok. It was in reply to another poster saying the same. Its obviously not ideal. Someone could later change it to a 20A without upgraing the cable etc.

But you come in here as if we dont know that. And with the yes sir sorry sir condenscending rubbish as well.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Paddy, all i said was, if there are light loads, a socket on a 10A rcbo will be ok. It was in reply to another poster saying the same. Its obviously not ideal. Someone could later change it to a 20A without upgraing the cable etc.

But you come in here as if we dont know that. And with the yes sir sorry sir condenscending rubbish as well.

Well Robbie all I can do here,is read what you actually post and say.

I replied back to what was posted and said by you (jeez I even gave you respect/credit in 1 of my posts,for advizing me in the past)

Im not a mind reader.

But theres absolutely no need to mock me in the way you have,by saying that I didnt read the post propperly (when I did and have) and than Im only a wannabe.
No need for any of that.



Im off to play wit with my marine aquariam and new pump now.

Have a good evening.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Well Robbie all I can do here,is read what you actually post and say.

I replied back to what was posted and said by you (jeez I even gave you respect/credit in 1 of my posts,for advizing me in the past)

Im not a mind reader.

But theres absolutely no need to mock me in the way you have,by saying that I didnt read the post propperly and than Im only a wannabe.
No need for any of that.



Im off to play wit with my marine aquariam and new pump now.

Have a good evening.

If your going to post

Sorry for replying to your post sir,very sorry sir.It wont happen again sir.

then there is nothing to say. So i will leave you to it permenantly.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

If your going to post then there is nothing to say. So i will leave you to it permenantly.

Thanks Robbie.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Thanks Robbie.

No bother, have fun with the aquariium. its a nice one. Be good,

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

No bother, have fun with the aquariium. its a nice one. Be good,

Thanks Robbie,

PS-I respect what you have told me and advised me on in the past,with regards wiring my garage and also installing the outdoor sockets in my front and back garden.

You gave me good sound advice and also even advized me to run a spare cable or 2 at the time of wiring the double pole switch plate (for outdoor sockets) in the kitchen.

I dont want to fall out with you,as I respect you and credit you (through this forum) with getting certain electricial stuff sorted in my house.

You gave me great advice.:)

So if its ok with you,lets forgive and forget the last few posts back and forwards to each other,because life is too short..

If thats ok with you??

Thanks.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

If thats ok with you??

Of course it is. Have a good night there.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Of course it is. Have a good night there.

Nice one.

You have a nice night too.

Regards.