Apartment owner: Am I free to change my front door?

barryd09

I own a 2 bedroom apartment, there are no security gates or cctv on tge development.
The apartment is approx 12 years old and the front door is particulary dated in security terms in my opinion.
It wouldnt be any hassle to break the glass in the door and reach in to unlocj the door.
Im concerned by this along with the fact that theres no cctv or security doors, essentially anybody could walk straight to my front door if they wish.

I want to change my front door to a door without the large glass panels, same colour and wood as the current door.

Theres also an issue with cold draughts coming in through the current door.

Am I free to change the door? Can anyone share their experiences?

Thanks

vicwatson

What do you mean are you free to change the door?

Why wouldn't you be, it's your door isn't it?

jd

barryd09 wrote: »

Am I free to change the door? Can anyone share their experiences?

Thanks

If it's an external door you should probably run it by the management company.

barryd09

jd wrote: »

If it's an external door you should probably run it by the management company.

Thats what I mean, am I obliged to inform them?
Could they possibly say no to it?
Should I just go ahead with it?

I know management companies can be difficult on issues like this but at the end of it all its my home & investment & I want it protected.

vicwatson

It should be none of their business quite frankly. Go ahead and change it.

who the fug

Read your lease/deeds

UDP

vicwatson wrote: »

It should be none of their business quite frankly. Go ahead and change it.

There is a difference between "should" and "is".

OP you will need to check your deeds to be sure.

who the fug

Read your lease/deeds

Keith186

Usually any work that could effect the structure of the apartment needs to be run past them.

If you're not changing the door frame along with the door its not structural so I wouldn't bother getting permission. Keep similar theme to other doors as you are planning.

barryd09

Thanks for the replies, I suppose checking the deeds would be the best place to start. Im hoping I will just be able to change the door & not the frame too so this shouldnt be an issue with the structure of the building.

Its hardly unreasonable for an owner who is personally occupying a unit to want to improve security of their own home, is it?

vicwatson

UDP wrote: »

There is a difference between "should" and "is".

OP you will need to check your deeds to be sure.

Ok, It is none of their business quite frankly. Go ahead and change it.

who the fug

barryd09 wrote: »

Its hardly unreasonable for an owner who is personally occupying a unit to want to improve security of their own home, is it?

If it changes the overhul view of the building, then yes it is unreasonable

odds_on

who the fug wrote: »

If it changes the overhul view of the building, then yes it is unreasonable

Yes, we all have to live in little boxes made of ticky tacky that all look the same!

(words and music by Malvina Reynolds; copyright 1962 Schroder Music Company, renewed 1990.)

barryd09

vicwatson wrote: »

Ok, It is none of their business quite frankly. Go ahead and change it.

While I agree with you about it being my front door I dont want a situation where I fork out a few hundered quid on a new door and be forced to change it back.

who the fug wrote: »

If it changes the overhul view of the building, then yes it is unreasonable

The front doors arent visible until youre standing outside it so it shouldnt affect anyone bar my neighbour across the hall, that apartment is rented so I cant see it visually affecting anyone really.
As i said it'll be the same material & colour as the rest of the doors.

Victor

If this is an external door, open to the air, I don't see teh management company having much of a problem, once you keep it in the general style of the existing, swapping solid panels for the glass.

If it is an internal door (only very occasionally an external door, depending on how close the neighbour's door is), it will also be a fire door and there will be certain standards that will need to be met.

Have other residents replaced their doors?

bren2002

In a new build, I'd say no way. Fire doors are serious and not to be messed with.

Has anyone else done what your suggesting? A precident would help you.

Paulw

Is it a managed development? If it is, then talk to your management company, via your management agent.

Normally you need to keep in the style of the development, but that doesn't mean you can't change the door, as long as it blends well. There are many doors that can conform to your requirements and also blend well with the development.

Basically, talk to people and you should be able to work it out.

barryd09

Victor wrote: »

If this is an external door, open to the air, I don't see teh management company having much of a problem, once you keep it in the general style of the existing, swapping solid panels for the glass.

If it is an internal door (only very occasionally an external door, depending on how close the neighbour's door is), it will also be a fire door and there will be certain standards that will need to be met.

Have other residents replaced their doors?

Its not a fire door, just a regular front door.
The neighbours door is probably 6 feet away & it wil definetly be the same style as the previoys door.
Theres 5 apartments in my block, they are all the original doors, i cant comment on the other block as im never in it.

CricketDude

barryd09 wrote: »

While I agree with you about it being my front door I dont want a situation where I fork out a few hundered quid on a new door and be forced to change it back.



The front doors arent visible until youre standing outside it so it shouldnt affect anyone bar my neighbour across the hall, that apartment is rented so I cant see it visually affecting anyone really.
As i said it'll be the same material & colour as the rest of the doors.

They might huff and puff at you but at the end of the day they cant do anything to you.
I once changed an external door in an apartment and the management company sent me letter evry few weeks threatening this that and the other. Even trying to fine me. I tore them all up. There is nothing they can do bar send letters.

barryd09

CricketDude wrote: »

They might huff and puff at you but at the end of the day they cant do anything to you.
I once changed an external door in an apartment and the management company sent me letter evry few weeks threatening this that and the other. Even trying to fine me. I tore them all up. There is nothing they can do bar send letters.

Thats nice to know but id say it differs from management company to management company on what way they would react & if theres a complaint about it which i highly doubt there would be from any of the other residents.

Legally speaking I presume they COULD take you to court to get you to change it but if its for security reasons that the existing facilities dont meet then it would be a difficult, costly and drawn out procedure.

vicwatson

barryd09 wrote: »

Thats nice to know but id say it differs from management company to management company on what way they would react & if theres a complaint about it which i highly doubt there would be from any of the other residents.

Legally speaking I presume they COULD take you to court to get you to change it but if its for security reasons that the existing facilities dont meet then it would be a difficult, costly and drawn out procedure.

If your existing door was bashed down by some thugs - you might have to replace it then right? What's the chances of getting an exact replacement for the existing door? So just go ahead and do it.

barryd09

That is a very good point, its not likely you'd ever find an exact replacement for a door thats 12-14 years old.

Feck it, Im going to go for it.
Im not going to be putting anyone else out by changing it, I am sticking as best I can to the style and colour of the other doors and Im only securing my own property in a complex that doesnt have any cctv or security doors or gates.

Paulw

CricketDude wrote: »

They might huff and puff at you but at the end of the day they cant do anything to you.

Actually there is plenty that they can do. Just because, in your case, they didn't, doesn't mean that they can't.

They can actually remove the door, replace it with one that fits the development, and then bill you for the whole thing. This charge can stay on your account until you attempt to sell, and can also stop you from being able to vote at company AGMs.

You should check your contracts, to be sure. Sounds like they just didn't bother chasing you.

It takes nothing to ask, and most responsbile management company directors will have no problem with you changing doors, as long as they are of a similar style.

peter_dublin

If your door can be opened from the inside via the glass then the issue is your lock and not the door. I have in a rented property a nearly all glass door, if you smashed the glass you would still need the key for the lock on the inside to unlock the door. Unless the door is made of cardboard and as it's an internal firedoor it most likely not then the issue is which the quality or type of "internal" lock which you can change, another option is to change the glass so it is visually the same but security glass.

I would advise you "DO NOT" listen to all the "F**K the Management Company" posts here and actually contact the management company re this. In our development it has been very clear that along with the Window Frames we own the external door for each unit. We stain them and the frames every three years and had an incident where a unit owner painted their door Gloss Blue and refused to co-operate. In the end it was heading towards a court date before he saw sense and ended up with the cost of having the door stripped and varnished as well as other costs. Can you imagine 7 immacuate rosewood external doors and one gloss blue in the middle of the run of doors. As an apartment owner you live as part of a cooperative and you cannot choose to change things that suit yourself as you would in a house. I would also point out that apartment complexes don't require Security Doors, CCTV etc. How many houses in the same area have those features. It's not a high security prison but an apartment complex, what you should have is some form of access control on the external door which in your case their isn't one as it seems to be an external door on each unt, this can be as simple as a key for the door.

In our case it also works to unit owners benifit. We replaced a door which was damaged in an attempted break in, but being 20 years old we had a joinery make a new one for the unit. Not as expensive as expected and that is what the sinking fund is for.

I always amazes me the attitude of people to management companies and I find normally those same people are those who don't attend AGMs or are angry at having what they see as their free will curtailed by the "communist" management company as we are known by one resident :-) having refused their personal request to have a tree in the communial garden cut down as they didn't like it.

As a a side note you mention that it's draughty, this is an issue for the management company as your door is not sealing correctly and as such is something they should resolve for you as a side note to your percieved security issue.

barryd09

peter_dublin wrote: »

If your door can be opened from the inside via the glass then the issue is your lock and not the door. I have in a rented property a nearly all glass door, if you smashed the glass you would still need the key for the lock on the inside to unlock the door. Unless the door is made of cardboard and as it's an internal firedoor it most likely not then the issue is which the quality or type of "internal" lock which you can change, another option is to change the glass so it is visually the same but security glass.

I would advise you "DO NOT" listen to all the "F**K the Management Company" posts here and actually contact the management company re this. In our development it has been very clear that along with the Window Frames we own the external door for each unit. We stain them and the frames every three years and had an incident where a unit owner painted their door Gloss Blue and refused to co-operate. In the end it was heading towards a court date before he saw sense and ended up with the cost of having the door stripped and varnished as well as other costs. Can you imagine 7 immacuate rosewood external doors and one gloss blue in the middle of the run of doors. As an apartment owner you live as part of a cooperative and you cannot choose to change things that suit yourself as you would in a house. I would also point out that apartment complexes don't require Security Doors, CCTV etc. How many houses in the same area have those features. It's not a high security prison but an apartment complex, what you should have is some form of access control on the external door which in your case their isn't one as it seems to be an external door on each unt, this can be as simple as a key for the door.

In our case it also works to unit owners benifit. We replaced a door which was damaged in an attempted break in, but being 20 years old we had a joinery make a new one for the unit. Not as expensive as expected and that is what the sinking fund is for.

I always amazes me the attitude of people to management companies and I find normally those same people are those who don't attend AGMs or are angry at having what they see as their free will curtailed by the "communist" management company as we are known by one resident :-) having refused their personal request to have a tree in the communial garden cut down as they didn't like it.

As a a side note you mention that it's draughty, this is an issue for the management company as your door is not sealing correctly and as such is something they should resolve for you as a side note to your percieved security issue.

Thanks for sharing your points, I do realise that Management companies vary widely on what they do and dont enforce.
Just to point out in 6 years living in the apartment the management company has never sanded, stained or cleaned my front door, ever.
If they 'own' my door they will certainly be keeping it in tip top shape in the future.

Who employs the Management Company?

athtrasna

barryd09 wrote: »

Thanks for sharing your points, I do realise that Management companies vary widely on what they do and dont enforce.
Just to point out in 6 years living in the apartment the management company has never sanded, stained or cleaned my front door, ever.
If they 'own' my door they will certainly be keeping it in tip top shape in the future.

Who employs the Management Company?

Going to sound like a parrot repeating this again...you are a member of the management company, the legal entity comprising all owners in the development. The MC employs a Management Agent.

The MC cannot sand, stain or clean your front door as it is your front door. It connects with the buildings that they own ie the walls, foundations etc. HOWEVER, it is probably in your lease that you cannot do anything to alter the external appearance of the buildings. Changing the door would be included in this.

In our development common entrance doors are painted with a commercially available stain. The information regarding brand and colour is circulated along with the option for own door unit owners to have their doors done by the professionals doing the common doors for a small fee. Doors cannot be painted in any other colours. The issue is the own door unit owners have to be there to open the doors and ensure their unit is secure while the painters are there and to lock up at the end. The MC would have keys for common entrance doors.

barryd09

So which is it?
I own my front door or the people I and others employ to manage the complex own it?
Does it vary from complex to complex?

athtrasna

You are a member of the management company. That management company owns common areas, buildings, car parks, bin sheds etc. You have a lease for your apartment, most likely 1000 years. That gives you your internal space which is exclusively yours, and exclusive use of any balconies (though these are MC property).

You own your door but is part of the visage of the greater development and you will probably have signed a lease that agrees not to alter it without permission from the management company. You would have to request permission from the directors of the MC either at an AGM or by writing to your management agent (they administer the running of the development) to ask them to forward your request.

markpb

barryd09 wrote: »

So which is it?
I own my front door or the people I and others employ to manage the complex own it?
Does it vary from complex to complex?

It does. Your lease agreement or any other paperwork you signed when you bought your apartment should specify exactly what you own and what you're responsible for.

the_syco

Get a new door, paint it the same as the old one, and put a mirror behind a pane f glass so that it looks like the other doors?

peter_dublin

barryd09 wrote: »

So which is it?
I own my front door or the people I and others employ to manage the complex own it?
Does it vary from complex to complex?

Barryd09, you need to be clear on one thing, the Management company owns the building and as such you can in no way alter it. But you and all other owners are the managment company owners through your shares. One per unit.

As such as others have said you can't make changes that change or visually effect the building in any way as you don't actually own those elements that you change, the management company does. The directors, often unpair are responsible for making day to day running decisions in the best interest of the complex and were voted in by the members so they or the agent they appointed to perform day to day tasks are your first port of call.

The nitty gritty as they say of who owns what exactly should be in your lease, as an example of the level of detail it goes into, in our development you own the glass but not the frame or the rubbers in the frame which hold the glass in as we consider them structural i.e. it's that detailed to rule out confusion. That said in our development if you replaced your glass with Victorian Leaded Glass we would come down on you before the installation had finished as you would be effecting the visual side of the development. So it comes down to is your "internal hallway facing door" structural. It would possibly fall into the same area as the glass, its removable but its removable in the same way the common entrance door is i.e. with a stupid amount of effort and also it's a fire door so any lease of decent quality would leave ownership with the management company as otherwise may raise insurance issues.

External doors are just that, external and required for the weather tightness of the building and its structural health overall so we (the management company) have ownership of those per unit leases and we maintain them as such. As stated by others some management companies leave residents to paint their own internal fire doors or external but they provide the details of the "allowed" colour etc but they still own the door, it's most likely a cost containment measure that decoration is left to the unit owner. We don't do this as we found the landlords were allowing the doors to fall into disrepair and rot was setting in and as such we stepped in.

It's a grey area which only your lease can 100% answer. You door is defective in that is has a draught, and if it is a fire door this 100% needs to be looked at, no fire door comes with single pane glass as i'm aware so your security issues are less than you think. But even if you own that door you cannot make changes which visually change a building you don't own. As another example you may own the first layer of plaster of the external wall but not the render or blockwork behind it so technically you cannot put up even shelves on that wall without permission.

Short Answer you should the following:
1. Do nothing re the door right now.
2. Get your lease or a copy of it.
3. In the mean time go speak to the directors of the mgt co, they will have the info you need and it will save you a lot of time.
4. DO NOT go in all guns blazing. People who spend their free time performing unpaid management services for an entire complex do not respond well to such an approach.


Hope this helps.