the household charge is for local services paid centrally out of taxes so will i get

swoofer

this house hold charge has me baffled, the blurb says it is for local services but we pay for local services through taxes at the moment so when the proper household charge is levied what will happen to the tax take??

El Horseboxo

They're off setting it by reducing the price of crisps.

JackieChan

The government will cut the money they pay to the councils.
It's a method of the government making savings.

clappyhappy

A FG td was on with Ray D'Arcy on thursday, she was saying that this household charge is for our local county council,to keep things like swimming pools, library's etc open and operational,as well as road maintenance. I also am baffled, then the dept of the environment sent through a very treating statement saying that those who didn't pay will be found and fined. I still don't know what to do.

Agent Smith

clappyhappy wrote: »

I still don't know what to do.

Just pay it

golfwallah

clappyhappy wrote: »

A FG td was on with Ray D'Arcy on thursday, she was saying that this household charge is for our local county council,to keep things like swimming pools, library's etc open and operational,as well as road maintenance. I also am baffled, then the dept of the environment sent through a very treating statement saying that those who didn't pay will be found and fined. I still don't know what to do.

The councils are spending more than they are bringing in and are bridging the gap with borrowings.

Government has been doing the same and eventually (Dec 2010), facing the prospect of default, signed a detailed agreement / plan with the EU/IMF Memorandum as to how the state would would get its finances back into order (including spending cuts / taxes).

This plan included a property tax by end 2011, which was passed into law by the Dail in December 2011 - so it's now the law of the land and a key condition to the plan to bailout of the country's sovereign debt.

The law provides for penalties for non-payment - simple as that.

I don't like it myself but have paid anyway.

Geuze

The central govt grant to the LA will be cut by 160m, that's the idea.

So central govt spending and the fiscal deficit both fall.

Slightly.

Ghandee

clappyhappy wrote: »

A FG td was on with Ray D'Arcy on thursday, she was saying that this household charge is for our local county council,to keep things like swimming pools, library's etc open and operational,as well as road maintenance. I also am baffled, then the dept of the environment sent through a very treating statement saying that those who didn't pay will be found and fined. I still don't know what to do.

Agent Smith wrote: »

Just pay it

Please enlighten us oh wise one, why we should 'just pay it'?

Local services, that's a laugh.

I pay each time my bin gets emptied already, my motor tax is €580 a year (more than a tenner per week!) I am tolled on almost every road I use on top of this also.
I pay the doctor fifty euro just to see him, prescriptions are like a poisoned chalice, as they could cost me god knows what!
Were paying through the nose on essentials every day,v through vat. VRT, though deemed illegal in EU law exists here, and we have among the highest taxed petrol/diesel in Europe.
The fire service/ambulance service will send you a bill (in the region of five hundred euro if you gave to call them out)
What about the stamp duty some people already paid on the family home? Will it be refunded?
Are you paying a private landscape company to tend to your local area's greenery and shrubbery area?

the household charge, urging people to register (even if your exempt) so they have your details for life, your then on the system forever, and you just watch add the charge increases year on year for 'local services' yet, you'll still be paying for all the things i've mentioned above!

At least in the north, once your rates have been paid, you'll face next to no other charge for services (including doctor, ambulance, waste collection, water etc etc)

Why should Paddy pay twice?

Your moneys leaving this island, and bound for a billionaire bond holders tax free, off shore account somewhere.

Don't register, don't pay.

ilovesleep

golfwallah wrote: »

The councils are spending more than they are bringing in and are bridging the gap with borrowings.

There is ridculious amount of wastage happening up and down the country within the county co.s and the 'work' that they do. Why can't they cut back on the wastage instead of hitting us in our pockets.

golfwallah

ilovesleep wrote: »

There is ridculious amount of wastage happening up and down the country within the county co.s and the 'work' that they do. Why can't they cut back on the wastage instead of hitting us in our pockets.

Fair point and I agree with you that there is a lot of scope to cut waste and avoidable spending by county councils (for instance Fingal Co. Co. are subsidizing its 2 loss making golf courses by €600,000 per annum).

But the immediate issue is compliance with the conditions of our debt bailout agreement with the EU/IMF (the Memorandum of Understanding, signed in December 2010).

The answer is we need both spending cuts and higher taxes, if we are to sort out our financial problems - so people should lobby their councillors to ensure cuts are implemented.

A minority of 9 TDs (the ULA) have been advocating non-payment, which is encouraging people to break the law - don't agree with that as being in the national interest.

mikemac1

Ghandee wrote: »

I am tolled on almost every road I use on top of this also.

Almost every road is tolled? At least you're not being dramatic

Ghandee wrote: »

VRT, though deemed illegal in EU law exists here

One of these statements said so often people believe it but if you ask them to explain why they can't

They changed the deadline to seven days after the EU complained

The Commission said that the 24-hour period being imposed by Revenue Officials would in its opinion be illegal

http://www.octane.ie/news/article.php?id=534

If it's illegal then Ghandee why are the EU tinkering with the rules instead of ordering it to be abolished

Another article and the EU wants some rates changed but they never declared it illegal

And Ireland is not the only country with it?

So how is it illegal? And did you hear it so often you think it is but don't know why?
Or did you hear the friend of a friend story of Ireland paying fines but VRT was worth more then the fines so they keep it.

Ghandee wrote: »

At least in the north, once your rates have been paid, you'll face next to no other charge for services (including doctor, ambulance, waste collection, water etc etc)

Water rates will be introduced soon, there have been protests since I lived there and that was about eight years ago

Kashkai

And what "local services" do I get from the council? There's no street lighting where I live. There's no footpath along the narrow country road I live on. I have to pay to get my septic tank maintained and emptied. I pay €400 a year for my refuse collection. The nearest library is 8 miles away. The nearest park a similar distance. I have to pay €8 for each of my kids when I bring them to the Council's swimming pool. I'd have to pay €500 if I had to call out the fire brigade. Yes I chose to live in a rural area but I paid €32,000 stamp duty on top of the purchase price of my house to do so.

So there are no "local services". This is another tax to plug the hole in the sinking ship that is Eire that struck the iceberg when the bank guarantee came in.

Typical Irish lemmings, all talk and moan and bitch but when you finally have a chance to say "NO MORE", you meekly run to pay this tax that is the thin edge of a very large wedge. I wonder if those sitting on the high moral ground of "Its the law of the land", will be so sanctimonious when this charge is €600, €800 or even a thousand a year?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

It's to pay for the bailout of than banks. Stop being silly.

Ghandee

mikemac1 wrote: »

Almost every road is tolled? At least you're not being dramatic

I live in Naas, if I go East of here, M50, north of that is the M1 (tolled both times) If I'm headed west, I get tolled on the N4 shortly after Kilcock.
Heaede south, and I get tolled after Portlaoise on the M7, so yeah.... almost every road....:cool:

mikemac1 wrote: »

One of these statements said so often people believe it but if you ask them to explain why they can't

They changed the deadline to seven days after the EU complained

http://www.octane.ie/news/article.php?id=534

If it's illegal then Ghandee why are the EU tinkering with the rules instead of ordering it to be abolished

Another article and the EU wants some rates changed but they never declared it illegal

And Ireland is not the only country with it?

So how is it illegal? And did you hear it so often you think it is but don't know why?
Or did you hear the friend of a friend story of Ireland paying fines but VRT was worth more then the fines so they keep it.

So they 'tinkered' with the rules? If it was all legal and above board would they even have needed to do so at all? (half a loaf is better than no bread:rolleyes:)

mikemac1 wrote: »

Water rates will be introduced soon, there have been protests since I lived there and that was about eight years ago

I'm from the north, lived there for 27 years, my parents dont pay water charges.

But I'm sure your about to enlighten me Mikemac, bar water rates.......
What else do people in the north have to pay seperately for after they pay their rates?

demanufactured

My local campaign against this unjust tax.

http://facebook.com/SayNoToTheHouseholdCharge

The nationwide campaign.
http://m.facebook.com/NoHouseholdTax

www.nohouseholdtax.org

nxbyveromdwjpg

You get another thread on it when you pay it

demanufactured

Whos paying it nm??
Im not.

galwayrush

If the household charge was increased by 50 % , it would cover the average government tribunal. Now isn't it worth it...:D

golfwallah

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

And what "local services" do I get from the council? There's no street lighting where I live. There's no footpath along the narrow country road I live on. I have to pay to get my septic tank maintained and emptied. I pay €400 a year for my refuse collection. The nearest library is 8 miles away. The nearest park a similar distance. I have to pay €8 for each of my kids when I bring them to the Council's swimming pool. I'd have to pay €500 if I had to call out the fire brigade. Yes I chose to live in a rural area but I paid €32,000 stamp duty on top of the purchase price of my house to do so.

So there are no "local services". This is another tax to plug the hole in the sinking ship that is Eire that struck the iceberg when the bank guarantee came in.

Typical Irish lemmings, all talk and moan and bitch but when you finally have a chance to say "NO MORE", you meekly run to pay this tax that is the thin edge of a very large wedge. I wonder if those sitting on the high moral ground of "Its the law of the land", will be so sanctimonious when this charge is €600, €800 or even a thousand a year?

Just log into your local council website for details of their services ..... you can't expect services like libraries in every corner of the county ... there're just one example of a council service already losing truckloads of money.

The facts is that councils and the state are running at a deficit and something had to and is being done to enable the country to continue to operate while its takes measures like household charges to reduce the national debt.

As things stand we are rebuilding our reputation that Ireland is a good place to do business and you will get repaid if you lend money here.

The alternative of default and refusing to repay sovereign debt would cause catastrophic damage to the economy and every citizen living here for decades.

demanufactured

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXIIieaQf-w

demanufactured

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuEy_4mMpY

Doc Ruby

golfwallah wrote: »

Just log into your local council website for details of their services ..... you can't expect services like libraries in every corner of the county ... there're just one example of a council service already losing truckloads of money.

Here I've a better idea, lets log on to the Irish Times for a whirlwind tour of Irish public spending:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0803/1224301773607.html

CONSULTANTS HAVE been paid almost €17 million in relation to the development of a new Dublin regional sewage treatment plant, even though a site has yet to be selected for the facility.
A study published six years ago identified Portrane in north Dublin as the best site for the new plant which would be second in size only to the Ringsend sewerage works. However, Fingal councillors rejected the plan and ordered a review of the study.
The Greater Dublin Strategic Drainage Study was commissioned by Fingal on behalf of the four Dublin local authorities from the Dublin Drainage Consultancy, a consortium involving Hyder Consulting, and Dublin-based firms PH McCarthy Partners and RPS-MCOS. The published cost of the study in 2005 was €10 million. However, new figures released by Fingal now set its cost at €14.9 million.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1118/1224307765606.html

CLARE COUNTY Council has spent almost €4 million on a 450- metre “road to nowhere” in Ennis that has not seen traffic use it since it was completed more than two years ago.
In response to a Freedom of Information request, the council has confirmed that it has spent €3.71 million on the stretch of public road leading to the Information Age Park in Ennis.
This works out at €825,974 for every 100 metres. However, no traffic has used the road since it was completed due to the loss-making Shannon Development’s failure to complete the remaining 200 metres of the route leading to the agency’s information park.
The figures show that €2.78 million was spent on costs associated with the compulsory purchase order of the lands.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0113/1224310194953.html

MORE THAN €9 million in EU funding secured to assist redundant workers from computer giant Dell was not spent, more than three years after the employees lost their jobs.
It is now expected a significant proportion of the €35 million in funding to support and retrain 9,000 construction workers will also have to be returned to the European Commission because of a failure to meet deadlines for the funding.
Sinn Féin finance spokesman Pearse Doherty has called for an independent inquiry into the management and administration of the European Globalisation Fund projects for Dell, SR Technics and Waterford Crystal and for some 9,000 redundant construction workers.
Last October Minister for Education and Skills Ruairí Quinn acknowledged there was a problem of “maladministration” in the funds, which he said was by the “previous administration”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0313/1224313204492.html

The Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht has confirmed that it is spending €56,413 to carry out a monitoring project on the natterjack toad that is found mainly in Co Kerry.
In response to a Freedom of Information request, the department also confirmed that it is also spending €54,500 on the first ever national study of the marsh fritillary butterfly.
The marsh fritillary is the only legally protected insect out of 12,000 Irish insects.
An expert on natterjack toads, Prof Mark Emmerson of Queen’s University Belfast, yesterday described the toad as an “iconic species”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1212/1224308953779.html

ALMOST €9 million will be spent by Dublin City Council next year in relation to the development of the Poolbeg incinerator, which has been delayed for more than 18 months.
The contract between the council and the developers of the Poolbeg incinerator has been extended until February by agreement with both parties, the council has said.
The council is to spend €8.9 million next year, in addition to €34 million already spent on the 600,000 tonne facility, even though its future remains under review. The council also has a future liability of €23 million to pay in relation to the project.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0305/1224312795497.html

€650 million spent on unrealised projects

€30m

Children’s hospital
Some €30 million has been spent by the hospital board – mainly in fees to architects, engineers and other consultants or experts – in progressing its plans. The Government says a revised plan will be produced in the coming months.
€42m

Dart Underground
Plans and land acquisition for the Dart Underground have cost millions, but the project has been delayed indefinitely under the new capital spending plans.
€50m

Media Lab Europe
The high-technology “seed bed”, based in Dublin’s Liberties, was run jointly by the government and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and was one of Mr Ahern’s most favoured projects. Founded in 2000, it went into liquidation a few years later, with consultants describing its output as “dismal”, “surprisingly weak” and “mediocre”.
€130m
PPARS
The HSE’s information technology project started small, at an estimated cost of €9 million in 1997, and ballooned to a cost of €130 million in 2004, before being put on hold by the Health Service Executive in 2007.
€55m

E-voting
Martin Cullen ordered more than 700 of the machines at a cost of €51 million, only to have them placed in storage in 2004 when security concerns emerged. Attempts to sell them have so far been unsuccessful.
€1.5m

Hospital co-location
Almost €1.5 million was paid in legal and financial costs associated with the now abandoned plans to develop co-located private hospitals. Project agreements for each of these hospitals expired in March 2011.
€44m

Decentralisation
Millions have been spent on acquiring sites for the Government’s decentralisation programme in locations where plans to transfer public service offices and State agencies have been either postponed or axed.
€18m Metro West
Millions has been spent on the design of this section of the Metro. It, too, has been shelved indefinitely as a result of cutbacks to capital spending plans.
€150m
Metro North
The decision not to proceed with the Metro North rail project as part of the 2012-2016 capital investment programme will cost the State more than €150 millionincluding compensation to the project bidders.
€100m

Bertie Bowl
Millions were spent on consultancy fees and the clearances of the Abbotstown development in preparation for a national stadium. Political opposition from Fianna Fáil’s coalition partners, the PDs, ultimately scuppered the project, although the FAI went on to relocate its headquarters at the site.
€42m
Thornton Hall
The Government spent €30 million acquiring land for the Thornton Hall “superprison”, which has been delayed indefinitely. A further €12 million has been spent on original plans for the prison and the Central Mental Hospital. Both designs have since been scrapped. Plans for a scaled-down version of the prison have also been long-fingered.
. . . and what €650 million could buy

185 SCHOOLS
+1 CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL
+1.5 AVIVA STADIUMS
+15 MILES OF LUAS TRACK






And thats just a lazy Saturday first page of Google search. Then you've the fun and games with social housing, with as much as a third of local authority budgets being spent on houses which are now more expensive than those on the open market.


Where I come from in Galway half the city was poisoned by cryptosporidium, YEARS AFTER THE MONEY WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO FIX THE PROBLEM. Who was fired? Nobody. Eyre Square ran millions over budget and became a national disgrace. Some roadworks up the way from me are now also millions over budget and six months overdue, choking the main traffic route for tens of thousands of people. Tens of millions more being blown on removing roundabouts and putting in useless traffic light systems, you can't drive a hundred meters within the city boundaries without hitting lights now. The list goes on and on and on.


Overturn the lot of them, disband the civil service, shake it out into something more modern, and watch the deficit vanish. Fuck this charge and the rest of the tax hikes until we get some accountability, efficiency, and proper management of public finances.

BubbleBalls

Well written. Just ten projects listed there and €650,000,000 wasted. No one replying to argue against these injustices because we all know it's true, and no argument can make this wastage palatable We have not, and do not, get anywhere near value for our hard earned taxes. Until a radical reform occurs I will do what I can to avoid pumping more of my dwindling wage into another void.

Scaremongering by TD's has already made my ageing mother extremely fearful that her meagre pension/entitlements could be at risk. Out of the 250,000+ who have already registered how many are already waivered? It is easy for people to register if they know they will not pay.

€650 million is an amazing sum but we have become desensitised to such figures, mentioned all too often in the news.

Say no.

charlemont

Agent Smith wrote: »

Just pay it

Yea, Just be good girls and boys, Hand it over and watch them squander it ..:rolleyes:

demanufactured

Yes lets all be lemmings Agent Smith.

mick125

What about council Tenants,do they not use local services such as parks Library's and so on Phil Hogan says that the €100 is for these services