Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Nalz

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That was done 5 years back and now we have 2 players who should be judged on the performance on the pitch and availability to the team.

Very true.

Smegball

I would definitely keep Anderson. Before his injury near the start of the season he was absolutely amazing. He's only 23.

Pro. F

That's a pity to see that Cleverley's injury record is so bad. Hopefully it clears up from now on because he is obviously a class player. He definitely has all the skills to be the long term replacement for Scholes and is good enough already to be in the first team.

Anderson should be sold in the summer and somebody more useful brought in imo. He has plenty of skill, but he can't be relied on to fill either role in the centre. He's far too lazy to be relied on defensively and he can't shoot to save his life so he comes up very short in the role of a creative cm.

I had a lot of patience for Anderson over the years, but I've lost it this season. Himself and Cleverley did a lot of good things when they had their run of games together and they showed how useful it is to have two central midfielders who can actually control the ball properly. But even while that was going on it finally became clear to me that Anderson's flaws mean he can't be relied on. Add that to his injuries and he just doesn't bring enough to the squad imo. Get him off the wage bill if at all possible and get in somebody who offers more.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a pity to see that Cleverley's injury record is so bad. Hopefully it clears up from now on because he is obviously a class player. He definitely has all the skills to be the long term replacement for Scholes and is good enough already to be in the first team.

Anderson should be sold in the summer and somebody more useful brought in imo. He has plenty of skill, but he can't be relied on to fill either role in the centre. He's far too lazy to be relied on defensively and he can't shoot to save his life so he comes up very short in the role of a creative cm.

I had a lot of patience for Anderson over the years, but I've lost it this season. Himself and Cleverley did a lot of good things when they had their run of games together and they showed how useful it is to have two central midfielders who can actually control the ball properly. But even while that was going on it finally became clear to me that Anderson's flaws mean he can't be relied on. Add that to his injuries and he just doesn't bring enough to the squad imo. Get him off the wage bill if at all possible and get in somebody who offers more.

Anderson is lot better than Cleverley defensively. He averages more tackles, interceptions, blocks, clearances per game.

I like Cleverley, he brings lot to the team but he is massively overrated now a days as few said in the previous thread. He has barely played and didn't do any better than Anderson still he is rated as top player whereas Anderson is not. When we played so much better at the start of the season Anderson was better than Cleverley.

Backstreet Moyes

Do people remember when Anderson first joined and he was very attacking. He is very good at dribbling and has alot of power when running with the ball. But Ferguson tried to turn him into a more defensive player. I think he plays too deep and instead of running at players he ends up trying hollywood balls that rarely come off. I would like to see him be giving a more free roll to run with the ball. Would like to see a midfield trio of Anderson, Cleverley and Carrick and see what its like.

Skud

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Cleverley and Anderson's best season on appearances. Also this season Anderson has played more games.

Cleverley:
2009-10: 35 appearances
2010-11: 25 appearances
2011-12: 12 appearances

Anderson:
2007-08: 38 appearances
2008-09: 38 appearances
2010-11: 30 appearances
2011-12: 16 appearances

Those stats do not present Utd's medical team / training regimes in any positive light!

Al Capwned

ah lads not the medical staff argument again......

Red Crow

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a pity to see that Cleverley's injury record is so bad. Hopefully it clears up from now on because he is obviously a class player. He definitely has all the skills to be the long term replacement for Scholes and is good enough already to be in the first team.

Anderson should be sold in the summer and somebody more useful brought in imo. He has plenty of skill, but he can't be relied on to fill either role in the centre. He's far too lazy to be relied on defensively and he can't shoot to save his life so he comes up very short in the role of a creative cm.

I had a lot of patience for Anderson over the years, but I've lost it this season. Himself and Cleverley did a lot of good things when they had their run of games together and they showed how useful it is to have two central midfielders who can actually control the ball properly. But even while that was going on it finally became clear to me that Anderson's flaws mean he can't be relied on. Add that to his injuries and he just doesn't bring enough to the squad imo. Get him off the wage bill if at all possible and get in somebody who offers more.

On what do you base the fact that he is obviously a class player. Perhaps you meant it loosely. I don't "see" a Cleverley and Carrick partnership developing. When Cleverley had his run of good form at the start he played alongside a certain Mr. Anderson, who was in great form too. Carrick and Cleverley are too alike. They both sit too close to the defence to have them both on the team. Our problem this year has been pressing the ball high up the pitch, which was massively exposed in Europe.

I'm not criticising Cleverley either. I don't think he took his chance and he probably wasn't able too after getting injured in such a good vein of form. Am I excited about Cleverley? Of course, he looked great in spells. But, if he gets moved out wide like Bilbao away then he's not going to be here very long.

I'd like to think at the start of next season we would be able to have Anderson, Cleverley, Pogba and Carrick all still at the club fit and fighting for their position. We aren't going to sign another midfielder if we re-sign Pogba and have high hopes for one of Cleverley or Anderson.

G.K.

Utterly removed to my view of the CM - I'd keep Pogba and Cleverly, and buy 3 new CM's.

Skud

alproctor wrote: »

ah lads not the medical staff argument again......

The_Kew_Tour

Nuts102 wrote: »

Do people remember when Anderson first joined and he was very attacking. He is very good at dribbling and has alot of power when running with the ball. But Ferguson tried to turn him into a more defensive player. I think he plays too deep and instead of running at players he ends up trying hollywood balls that rarely come off. I would like to see him be giving a more free roll to run with the ball. Would like to see a midfield trio of Anderson, Cleverley and Carrick and see what its like.

All 4 signings that summer got off to great starts with United. Anderson looked a peach of a buy at the time, and your right he did play a more free role and seemed to play well in it.

Red Crow

G.K. wrote: »

Utterly removed to my view of the CM - I'd keep Pogba and Cleverly, and buy 3 new CM's.

That's not feasible in so many ways. Our best CM is Carrick excluding Scholes. Sell him? That's silly imo

Son Of A Vidic

Smegball wrote: »

I would definitely keep Anderson. Before his injury near the start of the season he was absolutely amazing. He's only 23.

Amazing?....No, he had 4-5 relatively decent games at the start of the season, which didn't last for long and now he's indispensable?

Smegball wrote: »

He's only 23.

Which makes his 5 injury riddled seasons at United, whilst producing mostly shyte, all the more worrying.

G.K.

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's not feasible in so many ways. Our best CM is Carrick excluding Scholes. Sell him? That's silly imo

No, you misunderstand - I was referring to the post I quoted. I'd keep Carrick and Fletcher, Cleverly, Pogba, buy in 3 new ones and do the same thing with Scholes like they did this season again next time around.

The 3 new ones would all be young, I'd go for one in the Martinez mould, one in the Eriksen mould, and one in the Xhaka mould.

VW 1

G.K. wrote: »

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's not feasible in so many ways. Our best CM is Carrick excluding Scholes. Sell him? That's silly imo

No, you misunderstand - I was referring to the post I quoted. I'd keep Carrick and Fletcher, Cleverly, Pogba, buy in 3 new ones and do the same thing with Scholes like they did this season again next time around.

The 3 new ones would all be young, I'd go for one in the Martinez mould, one in the Eriksen mould, and one in the Xhaka mould.

And after nOt buying a CM in years you think we will splash 80-90m on young talent for one position in one summer? Fair enough I agree and it'd be the stuff f dreams but it won't happen.

If we signed Martinez alone we would be doing better than any of us could expect.

PhlegmyMoses

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would like to see him be giving a more free roll

It's all the free rolls he gets that are the problem.

G.K.

VW 1 wrote: »

And after nOt buying a CM in years you think we will splash 80-90m on young talent for one position in one summer? Fair enough I agree and it'd be the stuff f dreams but it won't happen.

If we signed Martinez alone we would be doing better than any of us could expect.

I agree with you that it WON'T happen, I just think it should.

Justin10

Anderson I thought was brilliant at start of season. Shocked to see he has played more then Cleverly this season.

Last time he came back he seemed to of lost a lot of weight too.
Think people forget he only 23.

kryogen

I still have (must be close to blind) faith in Ando, I think he can do it at United, I feel he will get an injury free run next season and will start to show that he can be consistent as well as obviously talented.

To have higher hopes for Clev over him or hold Clev up as the superior of the two has always seemed odd to me given the evidence. United knew the risks when signing Ando regarding his leg breaks etc and how sometimes players never really recover properly/always going to be susceptible to injury because of it and to let him go now, after 5 years of sticking with him, when he has surely fully matured physically now makes no sense to me.

If the same happens next season it may be time to just cut the losses and ship him on to PSG or wherever will actually pay a fee for him. But given what has been shown by him, including an improvement on his shooting he deserves another shot. Hargo was cut plenty of slack by fans when it was pretty clear that he was never going to get back.

Why write the guy off at such a young age? huge money has been invested in him and I would hate to see him move on and become a huge success elsewhere tbh, Nani took a while to develop, some players develop later then others, the majority dont do it till they are in the mid twenties, Ando has the talent in my eyes, its just a matter of finding a way to keep him fit.

MagicMarker

I want him to stay forever and ever and ever...

Al Capwned

ah lads please dont quote that gif - my poor lappy has nearly calved...
:pac:

DM_7

I like Anderson.

I don't like waiting till Monday for United to play.

VW 1

Anderson is one of my favourite players at United and I can't explain why.

If anyone has a gif of him, I think it was against Arsenal, where he was standing at the edge of the wall mirroring Szczeney trying to see past him and pulling faces, I would be eternally grateful. Funniest thing I have seen live at a match in all my life.

Thefirestarter

Perhaps not the right thread for this to be in though, but whatever.

What would be your ideal/dream/moment be if you were a Manchester United player?

It can be far fetched, or just a simple goal in OT on your debut/last game.

Mine? A last minute penalty to Man City in OT, last day of the season. United ahead by 3 points, the game is 1-1 but City would have the better goal difference if they score the peno and the win would seal the league for them. Up steps Carlos Tevez, belts it to the top right and a finger tip save pushes it onto the bar and bounces out of the box to be cleared by evans to the other half.

Final Whistle. Game Over. Title 20.

Kylo Ren

He has his moments alright.

Eathrin

Anybody ever hear of/seen this guy play before?
link

tvercetti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OiNMrlBvVA

Anderson picks up the ball in the left back position, plays 3 one-twos before getting through one on one and then squares it to Tevez for his hattrick.

Liam O

It's weird seeing Tevez in a United shirt. He really lost it after that season. (not talent, just brains it would seem.)

ShooterSF

We could end up in the Summer with Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Ando, T-Clev, Pogba, Jones and possibly Fletcher all possible CM players with 7 of the 8 favouring that position nearly exclusively. I fear those numbers could see us wanting ever more...

Kerrydude1981

tvercetti wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OiNMrlBvVA

Anderson picks up the ball in the left back position, plays 3 one-twos before getting through one on one and then squares it to Tevez for his hattrick.

That game must have been one Rodrigo Possebons few appearences for Utd,his career has really stalled with injuries

Al Capwned

hate saturdays with no united game

Soldie

When is Anderson back?

Will I Amnt

Academy on wiziwig if anyone's interested.

Nalz

Soldie wrote: »

When is Anderson back?

3 weeks apparently

http://www.fantasyfootballindex.co.uk/premierleague-injuries.html

killwill

VW 1 wrote: »

Anderson is one of my favourite players at United and I can't explain why.

If anyone has a gif of him, I think it was against Arsenal, where he was standing at the edge of the wall mirroring Szczeney trying to see past him and pulling faces, I would be eternally grateful. Funniest thing I have seen live at a match in all my life.

There was another great gif going around of him flexing his muscles to the crowd. Hilarious.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Anderson is lot better than Cleverley defensively. He averages more tackles, interceptions, blocks, clearances per game.

I would agree that Anderson is better than Cleverley defensively. But that doesn't mean he is good defensively. He's happy to throw in a tackle and fight for the ball, but he is way too lazy when it comes to tracking runs and marking in the box. He definitely can't be relied on as the defensive CM in the pair and I very much doubt he will ever be able to be.

Cleverley is poor defensively too, but no worse than Scholes was when he started out playing CM and at least he doesn't lunge in stupidly like Scholes has always done. In time he will hopefully learn the defensive positioning better, but if he only ever gets as good as Scholes at it, that would still be good enough, as it's on the creative side of things that he excels.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I like Cleverley, he brings lot to the team but he is massively overrated now a days as few said in the previous thread. He has barely played and didn't do any better than Anderson still he is rated as top player whereas Anderson is not. When we played so much better at the start of the season Anderson was better than Cleverley.

Cleverley hasn't ''barely played'', he's played plenty enough games in the United first team for his talent to be judged. If you think I'm overrating him fair enough. I'm confident that as long as injuries don't hold him back and as long as he's given a fair crack at the central midfield role (which he surely will under Fergie) he will be a massive success.

With regards to comparing him to Anderson as a creative central midfielder I would say Cleverley is streets ahead. Anderson is good, but the fact that he cannot shoot is the critical flaw in his game. Cleverley's link up play is also better, but the shooting is the real thing that limits Ando.

Eli Manning wrote: »

On what do you base the fact that he is obviously a class player. Perhaps you meant it loosely.

I'm basing it on the games I've seen him play for the United first team at the beginning of this season. I don't mean it loosely. I mean it in the way that it is obvious to see that he is a class player. He is still young and so will develope more, but already he is extremely good.

Eli Manning wrote: »

I don't "see" a Cleverley and Carrick partnership developing. When Cleverley had his run of good form at the start he played alongside a certain Mr. Anderson, who was in great form too. Carrick and Cleverley are too alike. They both sit too close to the defence to have them both on the team. Our problem this year has been pressing the ball high up the pitch, which was massively exposed in Europe.

I'm not criticising Cleverley either. I don't think he took his chance and he probably wasn't able too after getting injured in such a good vein of form. Am I excited about Cleverley? Of course, he looked great in spells. But, if he gets moved out wide like Bilbao away then he's not going to be here very long.

I'd like to think at the start of next season we would be able to have Anderson, Cleverley, Pogba and Carrick all still at the club fit and fighting for their position. We aren't going to sign another midfielder if we re-sign Pogba and have high hopes for one of Cleverley or Anderson.

Cleverley is nothing like Carrick. Cleverley does not sit deep in front of the defence. That description is the exact opposite of the way he plays. Also Cleverley has an excellent first touch and close control whereas Carrick's is extremely poor for a central midfielder at this level. On the other side of it Carrick is very reliable defensively while Cleverley is weak there. So there really is not much similarity between them at all.

I don't see a great partnership developing between Cleverley and Carrick because Carrick is so poor in possession (which is an unforgiveable weakness for a CM). Hopefully we can get in somebody with Carrick's defensive soundness but who is actually good enough on the ball as well. If that were to happen then they would be perfect to play alongside a CM as creative as Cleverley.

lordgoat

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't see a great partnership developing between Cleverley and Carrick because Carrick is so poor in possession (which is an unforgiveable weakness for a CM). Hopefully we can get in somebody with Carrick's defensive soundness but who is actually good enough on the ball as well. If that were to happen then they would be perfect to play alongside a CM as creative as Cleverley.

What's his pass completion rate in every game for this season?

You just dislike the type of player that Carrick is imo. He's not galmorous, he has a basic job of shielding the back 4 and making simple passes to the wingers/ CM. He's excellent at that. He's the type of player that brings the best out in others and is vital to us this season. If he's as bad as you make out, he'd never have played at the highest level for so long.

No i don't think he's the greatest midfielder of a generation but to consistently overlook what he does bring to the team and focus on his supposed deficiencies is pretty small minded.

Edit: I do agree with the fact i don't think him and Clev would be a good pairing though.

Red Crow

Pro. F wrote: »

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Anderson is lot better than Cleverley defensively. He averages more tackles, interceptions, blocks, clearances per game.

I would agree that Anderson is better than Cleverley defensively. But that doesn't mean he is good defensively. He's happy to throw in a tackle and fight for the ball, but he is way too lazy when it comes to tracking runs and marking in the box. He definitely can't be relied on as the defensive CM in the pair and I very much doubt he will ever be able to be.

Cleverley is poor defensively too, but no worse than Scholes was when he started out playing CM and at least he doesn't lunge in stupidly like Scholes has always done. In time he will hopefully learn the defensive positioning better, but if he only ever gets as good as Scholes at it, that would still be good enough, as it's on the creative side of things that he excels.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I like Cleverley, he brings lot to the team but he is massively overrated now a days as few said in the previous thread. He has barely played and didn't do any better than Anderson still he is rated as top player whereas Anderson is not. When we played so much better at the start of the season Anderson was better than Cleverley.

Cleverley hasn't ''barely played'', he's played plenty enough games in the United first team for his talent to be judged. If you think I'm overrating him fair enough. I'm confident that as long as injuries don't hold him back and as long as he's given a fair crack at the central midfield role (which he surely will under Fergie) he will be a massive success.

With regards to comparing him to Anderson as a creative central midfielder I would say Cleverley is streets ahead. Anderson is good, but the fact that he cannot shoot is the critical flaw in his game. Cleverley's link up play is also better, but the shooting is the real thing that limits Ando.

Eli Manning wrote: »

On what do you base the fact that he is obviously a class player. Perhaps you meant it loosely.

I'm basing it on the games I've seen him play for the United first team at the beginning of this season. I don't mean it loosely. I mean it in the way that it is obvious to see that he is a class player. He is still young and so will develope more, but already he is extremely good.

Eli Manning wrote: »

I don't "see" a Cleverley and Carrick partnership developing. When Cleverley had his run of good form at the start he played alongside a certain Mr. Anderson, who was in great form too. Carrick and Cleverley are too alike. They both sit too close to the defence to have them both on the team. Our problem this year has been pressing the ball high up the pitch, which was massively exposed in Europe.

I'm not criticising Cleverley either. I don't think he took his chance and he probably wasn't able too after getting injured in such a good vein of form. Am I excited about Cleverley? Of course, he looked great in spells. But, if he gets moved out wide like Bilbao away then he's not going to be here very long.

I'd like to think at the start of next season we would be able to have Anderson, Cleverley, Pogba and Carrick all still at the club fit and fighting for their position. We aren't going to sign another midfielder if we re-sign Pogba and have high hopes for one of Cleverley or Anderson.

Cleverley is nothing like Carrick. Cleverley does not sit deep in front of the defence. That description is the exact opposite of the way he plays. Also Cleverley has an excellent first touch and close control whereas Carrick's is extremely poor for a central midfielder at this level. On the other side of it Carrick is very reliable defensively while Cleverley is weak there. So there really is not much similarity between them at all.

I don't see a great partnership developing between Cleverley and Carrick because Carrick is so poor in possession (which is an unforgiveable weakness for a CM). Hopefully we can get in somebody with Carrick's defensive soundness but who is actually good enough on the ball as well. If that were to happen then they would be perfect to play alongside a CM as creative as Cleverley.

Look at tape and see where Cleverley played. He played where Carrick played. If you dont believe me look at one of those analysis sites like ZM.

I said already I think that they won't work together but it's nothing got to do with Carrick's limitations.

This is pointless debate anyway because you believe that Cleverley plays nowhere near where Carrick plays which means you obviously haven't being paying attention.

IvySlayer

If Sunderland nick points off City I'll make love to Paully D.

Nalz

IvySlayer wrote: »

If Sunderland nick points off City I'll make love to Paully D.

they won't

Professional Griefer

Trilla wrote: »

they won't

I reckon they'll get 1. They're defending alright, and making a few chances.

shadowcomplex

Manchester City 0 Sunderland 1:D

Owen_S

Great goal for Sunderland, hopefully they will do us a favour today.

Vic Vinegar

IvySlayer wrote: »

If Sunderland nick points off City I'll make love to Paully D.

Does he get a choice in the matter?

Owryan

2-1 to sunderland now. could be a squeeky bum game lol

Cantona's Collars

Owryan wrote: »

2-1 to sunderland now. could be a squeeky bum game lol

Could be a squeaky bum for Paully D if the score stays the same & Ivyslayer fulfills that promise.

Kylo Ren

IvySlayer wrote: »

If Sunderland nick points off City I'll make love to Paully D.

If Sunderland win or draw I will make love to Paully D. Or lose.

IvySlayer

Need some mouthwash..

dahat

Paully D is getting some lovin tonight i reckon!!!!!:D

Professional Griefer

Hopefully they'll hold on, we hammer Blackburn Monday night, next Sunday, half 1 we play QPR at home, then Arsenal have City in London. Massive 3 weeks, including last week as well.