Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Al Capwned

How's PIG getting on with Watford? Think he's certain to leave in summer, but just curious!

kryogen

Dunno, kept no tabs on PIG as he is gone in the summer, same reason I havent kept up to date on Morrison at WH, (has he played yet?) no longer United players!

Al Capwned

yeah, i'd forgotten about him till he was mentioned in Giggsy11's post above!

Mr.Crinklewood

Morrison has played 14 mins-

Article from today's Telegraph

By Jason Burt, Senior Football Writer
Last Updated: 5:42AM BST 06/04/2012
Ravel Morrison has played just 14 minutes of first-team football for West Ham United since signing from Manchester United on the January transfer deadline day.

That is a surprise, given that he spurned at least two Premier League clubs to drop down into the Championship in the belief it would more quickly give him a chance of first-team football.

Inevitably, there have been rumours that Morrison has missed training sessions and has had bust-ups with senior players at West Ham but none of these is true.

Instead, the claims can be ascribed to the teenager’s troubled reputation going before him — and puzzlement as to why he has not played.

The truth is Morrison has buckled down, trained hard and appears far more focused on football since he moved to West Ham.

Which makes it all the more surprising that he can count on just nine minutes of regular time — plus five minutes of added time — against Leeds United on March 17 as his one only opportunity to play.

Certainly there is a degree of frustration from some within West Ham that Morrison, given his much-vaunted talent, has not been given greater opportunity in a team that has struggled in recent weeks.

When the attacking midfielder joined West Ham they were top of the Championship, two points ahead of Southampton and nine clear of Reading.

Today, they are third, six points behind Southampton and four in arrears to Reading.

They have lost only one of the 12 games since Morrison has been at the club but have been hit hard by seven draws, matches when creative players like the 19 year-old might have made a difference.

A lack of match fitness when he arrived at West Ham kept Morrison out of the first-team squad while he picked up a slight injury 10 days ago and is only just back in training.

Yet he has only been on the bench on three occasions including the 1-1 draw at home to Doncaster Rovers when manager Sam Allardyce decided to bring on defender Danny Collins rather than Morrison or striker Nicky Maynard with 10 minutes to go and the team desperate for a winning goal.

West Ham signed Morrison for an initial £650,000 and the fee might rise to £3  million depending on appearances which is not a bad deal, albeit a slight gamble, for a player regarded as one of the most gifted Manchester United have produced in recent years and who dazzled in the 2011 FA Youth Cup final win over Sheffield United.

His problems are well chronicled — not least a magistrate’s warning that jail loomed unless he mended his ways — and while Sir Alex Ferguson gave up on him it was also generally accepted that a move away form Manchester might be the best for all parties.

Perhaps, understandably, Allardyce is protecting him and does not want to expose such a young player to pressure; maybe next season he will start to use Morrison more frequently and in the tense atmosphere that has surrounded West Ham’s promotion campaign it might have been deemed best to hold back such a precocious character away from the hurly-burly of the Championship.

But those who know Morrison also know one thing: he needs to play if his resolve to reform himself is to be maintained.

Link:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-ham/9189529/West-Hams-Ravel-Morrison-eager-for-chance-to-prove-he-has-cleaned-up-his-act-since-leaving-Manchester-United.html

Mr.Crinklewood

1968 European cup final on now on ESPN classics. On again at 2100.

homerjay2005

PIG is doing amazing at Watford! due to my polish connections, i keep tabs on him and they have turned from potential relegation candidates to outside promotion chance since he started for them.

i think he has only one defeat in the 8 loeague games he has played and they are on a great run at the moment. they beat leeds away at the weekend and are about 6 points off the play offs which is amazing considering where they were 6 weeks ago.

could be coincidental of course and other factors involved, but since PIG has come on board their fortunes have changed completely.

kryogen

Getting his first team opportunity then

Mars Bar

Scott Loach has been at Watford for quite a while as their number one so I would love to know how he feels about Tommy K coming in and taking over. Wouldn't be surprised to see him go there permanently.

MagicMarker

Des wrote: »

For next season, should Scholes do a "Scholes" and not play at all until after Xmas.

Or retire completely.

Or play a "full" season?

I'd be of the opinion that he should play the early CL group games until United qualify/get knocked out, no league or carling cup games, until after Xmas.

I would hope that with 1 or 2 signings and the progression of Cleverley & Pogba, both Scholes & Giggs will be spending most of their time on the bench next season.

Al Capwned

Mars Bar wrote: »

Scott Loach has been at Watford for quite a while as their number one so I would love to know how he feels about Tommy K coming in and taking over.

Can't imagine he'd be too happy about it.

We seem to have made a habit of loaning keepers to Watford in recent years, haven't we.

homerjay2005

Diouf is doing well also at Hannover, he scored again last night.

thats 6 goals since he moved there i think. always great to see lads like him doing well, he seems like a reallly nice bloke. never good enough for united, but always thought he would do well at a lower stature club and its prooving the case.

now, just to get Bebe sorted and get a few quid for him and all is good.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I find it a little bit amusing that The One got further in Europe than United.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Was just thinking there today, has any player broken their leg and then come back better than they were before?

Anto's fúcking bionic.

The_Kew_Tour

baz2009 wrote: »

Was just thinking there today, has any player broken their leg and then come back better than they were before?

Anto's fúcking bionic.

Andy Cole broke 2 legs and came back a unreal player for us.

It only happens at United:D

homerjay2005

baz2009 wrote: »

I find it a little bit amusing that The One got further in Europe than United.

just checked there, he nactually has 9 goals already for them! thats pretty good going, delighted for him.

killwill

baz2009 wrote: »

Was just thinking there today, has any player broken their leg and then come back better than they were before?

Anto's fúcking bionic.

Not a broken leg but Keane and RVN both did their ACL which IMO is much worse.

Larsson had a horrible leg break at Celtic, he did alright for himself after!!!

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

just checked there, he nactually has 9 goals already for them! thats pretty good going, delighted for him.

He is a very good finisher, if he had a better all round game he would have been a great asset to the club

Jimmy Iovine

baz2009 wrote: »

Was just thinking there today, has any player broken their leg and then come back better than they were before?

Anto's fúcking bionic.

While he may not have been as good as he was before Djibril Cisse deserves a huge amount of respect imo. He broke his legs twice. The fact that he's still playing at all is amazing. It may seem strange to say it but he is quite lucky. I'm sure there have been hundreds of players over the years who have broken their legs and they had to give up, with David Busst being the most unfortunate of them all.

Oh and Kaka broke his neck when he was 18. That he went on to become one of the best players in the world is simply astonishing. Again he was one of the very few lucky people. One wrong move and he could have been paralysed.

Mr.Crinklewood

Morrison not in the West Ham squad today.

killwill

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Morrison not in the West Ham squad today.

No surprise there.

kryogen

West Ham are 3, hang on, wrong thread

Owen_S

Blatter wrote: »

I really don't see the need for 5 CBs, especially with a bloated wage bill. A situation whereby 2 of our CBs will be frozen out, have their development stunted and become unhappy is far more likely to occur than all 5 getting decent game time due to another horrific injury crisis.

I think that Ferguson doesn't want to be forced to play a midfielder in that position again. I would rather have too many than too little. It is also possible for 4 of the 5 'CBs' mentioned to play at once - Vidic and Ferdinand/Evans at CB, Smalling at right-back and Jones in midfield.

It would be bad to have 5 players who can only play CB, but the versatility of Jones and Smalling to an extent means that they should all see enough time on the pitch(especially when you consider how injury prone the twins have been).

Vidic and Rio will need to be phased out in the next couple of years too.

Blatter

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I can see where you are coming from, so given a choice what would you do? Offload Rio or Vidic?

IMO Rio wont be fit for entire season for that reason alone we can afford to keep 5 CBs. Also rumors that he is ready for pay cut. We are in very healthy situation when it comes to wage bill. Our wage to revenue ratio is around 42% which is among the best in the world. So we can afford to keep few extra players imo, also surely Berba, PIG and Owen will leave. That would keep us in even better shape.

The last set of accounts showed an increase of £10m in our total wage bill, and rough estimations (if we win the PL) predict that our next release of accounts will show a wage to revenue ratio of around 50-52%. It is definitely a bloated wage bill as things stand (As we do like to operate around the 45% mark, and we certainly won't want to be going near 60%), and I know Berba, PIG and Owen will probably leave, but a replacement will be more than likely brought in for Berba, so that should be cancelled out. Owen and PIG wouldn't be on high wages anyway. Add in that the likes of Welbeck, Evans and possibly Rafael and Pogba may be getting new contracts, and then the wage bill won't really be trimmed, and new signings will become more difficult as a result imo.

I wouldn't be looking to cull one of Rio or Vidic. I was sort of playing Devil's advocate .

What I would say, is that if Rio didn't want to accept a significant pay decrease (He's on £115k/week!) then it might make sense to leave him go. (Although I appreciate he's a great influence at the club, and would like to see him stay for that reason at least). Alternatively, if a £20-25m bid came in from Vidic from PSG, RM or some Russian club - I'd give it serious consideration.

For argument's sake, what would you prefer?

Start the season with all 5 of Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + no new CM.

Start the season with one of Vidic or Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + a top tier CM.

I'm not saying we can't have both, maybe we can. Or maybe we can cull other areas of the squad (like Park for example) and satisfy our wage bill that way, but I'm just making the point that it's not necessary to go into a season with 5 senior CBs, and if we need to cut the wage budget to bring in a new central midfielder, it would make sense to leave one go.

G.K.

Blatter wrote: »

The last set of accounts showed an increase of £10m in our total wage bill, and rough estimations (if we win the PL) predict that our next release of accounts will show a wage to revenue ratio of around 50-52%. It is definitely a bloated wage bill as things stand (As we do like to operate around the 45% mark, and we certainly won't want to be going near 60%), and I know Berba, PIG and Owen will probably leave, but a replacement will be more than likely brought in for Berba, so that should be cancelled out. Owen and PIG wouldn't be on high wages anyway. Add in that the likes of Welbeck, Evans and possibly Rafael and Pogba may be getting new contracts, and then the wage bill won't really be trimmed, and new signings will become more difficult as a result imo.

I wouldn't be looking to cull one of Rio or Vidic. I was sort of playing Devil's advocate .

What I would say, is that if Rio didn't want to accept a significant pay decrease (He's on £115k/week!) then it might make sense to leave him go. (Although I appreciate he's a great influence at the club, and would like to see him stay for that reason at least). Alternatively, if a £20-25m bid came in from Vidic from PSG, RM or some Russian club - I'd give it serious consideration.

For argument's sake, what would you prefer?

Start the season with all 5 of Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + no new CM.

Start the season with one of Vidic or Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + a top tier CM.

I'm not saying we can't have both, maybe we can. Or maybe we can cull other areas of the squad (like Park for example) and satisfy our wage bill that way, but I'm just making the point that it's not necessary to go into a season with 5 senior CBs, and if we need to cut the wage budget to bring in a new central midfielder, it would make sense to leave one go.

There's a thread suggesting this on RedCafe at the moment and the guys over there aren't holding back on the guy who started the thread, seem to think Vidic has up to 6 years left in him.

The_Kew_Tour

Selling one of our 2 best players would be huge mistake.

Just a no go.

Giggsy11

Blatter wrote: »

The last set of accounts showed an increase of £10m in our total wage bill, and rough estimations (if we win the PL) predict that our next release of accounts will show a wage to revenue ratio of around 50-52%. It is definitely a bloated wage bill as things stand (As we do like to operate around the 45% mark, and we certainly won't want to be going near 60%), and I know Berba, PIG and Owen will probably leave, but a replacement will be more than likely brought in for Berba, so that should be cancelled out. Owen and PIG wouldn't be on high wages anyway. Add in that the likes of Welbeck, Evans and possibly Rafael and Pogba may be getting new contracts, and then the wage bill won't really be trimmed, and new signings will become more difficult as a result imo.

I wouldn't be looking to cull one of Rio or Vidic. I was sort of playing Devil's advocate .

What I would say, is that if Rio didn't want to accept a significant pay decrease (He's on £115k/week!) then it might make sense to leave him go. (Although I appreciate he's a great influence at the club, and would like to see him stay for that reason at least). Alternatively, if a £20-25m bid came in from Vidic from PSG, RM or some Russian club - I'd give it serious consideration.

For argument's sake, what would you prefer?

Start the season with all 5 of Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + no new CM.

Start the season with one of Vidic or Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + a top tier CM.

I'm not saying we can't have both, maybe we can. Or maybe we can cull other areas of the squad (like Park for example) and satisfy our wage bill that way, but I'm just making the point that it's not necessary to go into a season with 5 senior CBs, and if we need to cut the wage budget to bring in a new central midfielder, it would make sense to leave one go.

We are under no financial pressure to reduce our wage bill. Yes there is a increase in wage bill but rumors are that Rio will take wage cut, surely at this age he should.

Think of it, if we sell Vidic and if Rio gets injured I wont be surprised if we let few gifts in. As much as Evans has improved Rio has been absolutely key in the defense. I for one wont like if we sell any of the two.

Why are you restricting to 5 CBs plus no CM. I would prefet 5 CBs plus 1 CM. We can let go Berba, Owen, PIG, Park. That will free up lot and also Rio will take pay cut.

Welbeck, Cleverley and co will get pay rise but also we are doing exceptionally well in the marketing side. So surely this CL is a blip and next year we will be back to normal. So I can see our revenue being better than this time and last season.

Like I have said I dont trust Jones to perform week in week out as a CB. He should improve a lot to make the position his own. Rio has at least 1 or 2 seasons left in him and with the way he has played this season it would be cruel to let him go.

And lastly blunt No to offers for Vidic. With him in the side we are superb defensively. Which top team will sell one of the best players in the world just saying we have one extra CB or we are just increased 5% (Wage/Revenue).

To be a top team we should retain top players and Vidic is as good as they get in his position. He is at his peak and with the way he plays he has many years left in him.

So to conclude it doesn't make sense to lose one of our CB thereby losing points in the leauge.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Selling one of our 2 best players would be huge mistake.

Just a no go.

Overall though, the strength in depth is better at centre back so if a big money bid did come in for Vida I would honestly be ok with the club selling him so long as the money would be re invested, since I have no faith in that to happen though I would probably be sceptical about it at the time!

Should also point out for my safety, that I dont want Vidic to be sold at all. Very happy to have him at the club

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

Overall though, the strength in depth is better at centre back so if a big money bid did come in for Vida I would honestly be ok with the club selling him so long as the money would be re invested, since I have no faith in that to happen though I would probably be sceptical about it at the time!

but selling our best defender will eat into out strength in depth.

I agree totally with your last point in that I be unsure if the money would go back into buying.

But I think we want be looking at an outstanding bid for us to sell Vidic.

Worse players will go for more.

Blatter

G.K. wrote: »

There's a thread suggesting this on RedCafe at the moment and the guys over there aren't holding back on the guy who started the thread, seem to think Vidic has up to 6 years left in him.

Lol, just went over and had a quick look at it. That the reaction that you can expect from most fans, but selling a world class player doesn't always mean you're going backwards. For example we sold van Nistelrooy when he was still world class as he got 33 goals for Real the next season. But selling him undoubtedly aided the development of Rooney and Ronaldo imo and helped us become a better team. Similarly if Vidic was to go, the development of Smalling, Evans and Jones would more than likely be aided.

However I'd tend to agree that we should keep Vidic, as he is one of the best in the world but I wouldn't say we NEED him and selling him for big money would make sense on certain levels so I wouldn't totally scoff at the suggestion.

Blatter

Giggsy11 wrote: »

We are under no financial pressure to reduce our wage bill. Yes there is a increase in wage bill but rumors are that Rio will take wage cut, surely at this age he should.

Think of it, if we sell Vidic and if Rio gets injured I wont be surprised if we let few gifts in. As much as Evans has improved Rio has been absolutely key in the defense. I for one wont like if we sell any of the two.

Why are you restricting to 5 CBs plus no CM. I would prefet 5 CBs plus 1 CM. We can let go Berba, Owen, PIG, Park. That will free up lot and also Rio will take pay cut.

Welbeck, Cleverley and co will get pay rise but also we are doing exceptionally well in the marketing side. So surely this CL is a blip and next year we will be back to normal. So I can see our revenue being better than this time and last season.

Like I have said I dont trust Jones to perform week in week out as a CB. He should improve a lot to make the position his own. Rio has at least 1 or 2 seasons left in him and with the way he has played this season it would be cruel to let him go.

And lastly blunt No to offers for Vidic. With him in the side we are superb defensively. Which top team will sell one of the best players in the world just saying we have one extra CB or we are just increased 5% (Wage/Revenue).

To be a top team we should retain top players and Vidic is as good as they get in his position. He is at his peak and with the way he plays he has many years left in him.

So to conclude it doesn't make sense to lose one of our CB thereby losing points in the leauge.

I suppose this is what it all comes down to, and I hope you're right. I wouldn't be so confident though.

I'd be only too delighted to be able to keep all 5 CBs at the club and sign a top tier central midfielder as well.

Giggsy11

Blatter wrote: »

I suppose this is what it all comes down to, and I hope you're right. I wouldn't be so confident though.

I'd be only too delighted to be able to keep all 5 CBs at the club and sign a top tier central midfielder as well.

Hopefully we sign at least 1 CM. In 2 years maybe there wont be Rio, Giggs, Scholes so IMO we shouldn't worry much about wage bill now. We are very healthy in that area and even if we have exceeded by 5%(Which is still among the best in the world) it would come down in 2 seasons,

Owen, Berba, TK, Park and in 2 seasons Giggs, Scholes, Rio. Thats a lot and our wage bill be even lesser. Yeah we will sign few players too but surely we wont sign 5-6 players.

Edit: 4 CBs As of now Jones is an allrounder who can play in many positions. So he will play lot of games.

Al Capwned

Blatter wrote: »

For argument's sake, what would you prefer?

Start the season with all 5 of Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + no new CM.

Start the season with one of Vidic or Ferdinand, Evans, Smalling, Jones + a top tier CM.

I think if these two scenarios were mutually exclusive, I'd have to go with the latter, especially considering the form of Johnny Evans over the past few months. Said it earlier here that he's been excellent since he's gotten a good run in the side.

eugeneious

IMO it would be crazy to sell Vidic. Best CB in the world when fit imo and I hate to think of another club having him especially when you consider how good Jaap Stam was when he left. Obviously a different situation but Vidic could still be a very good player for the next 3-4 years at least, after all pace was never a strength.

Selling Ferdinand on the other hand wouldn't be an issue imo. Great servant to the club but he has declined slightly imo and he isn't the same player he was 2 or 3 years ago. Would still be great for him to stick around if he was content with a limited playing role.

Samich

There is no chance that Rio or Vidic will not be at Utd next season, any other opinion than that is nonsense.

kmart6

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Andy Cole broke 2 legs and came back a unreal player for us.

It only happens at United:D

But yet our medical staff are terrible according to some here!

Blatter

Samich wrote: »

There is no chance that Rio or Vidic will not be at Utd next season, any other opinion than that is nonsense.

Like this opinion, after the Newcastle game

Samich wrote: »

League is gone as far as I can see, been unlucky with injuries. City haven't had any.

We won't gain 4 points on them again.

Seriously, it's not as if we haven't left go some of or better players before for one reason or another. Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis were considered three of our best players when they all left in the Summer of '95 but Ferguson got it spot on because he recognized that Scholes, Beckham etc. were a special bunch.

He has shown time and time again that he'll make difficult and sometimes unpopular decisions if he thinks he has young players that are good enough to step up.

IvySlayer

Samich wrote: »

There is no chance that Rio or Vidic will not be at Utd next season, any other opinion than that is nonsense.

What?

Wanna bet?

Kylo Ren

IvySlayer wrote: »

What?

Wanna bet?

I bet you the internets and a custard cream that they will be here next season.

IvySlayer

Damn you Samich I didn't see the second not

Kylo Ren

IvySlayer wrote: »

Damn you Samich I didn't see the second not

My bet is still valid.

Son Of A Vidic

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Morrison not in the West Ham squad today.

Since he had no first team career at United, what exactly are we missing and should we even give a shít about him tbh? The waster threw away a wonderful opportunity, that most young lads can only dream of.

homerjay2005

rio and vidic will be at united for a long time yet, im pretty sure of that.

Red Crow

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Morrison not in the West Ham squad today.

Since he had no first team career at United, what exactly are we missing and should we even give a shít about him tbh? The waster threw away a wonderful opportunity, that most young lads can only dream of.

Its unrealistic to think Morrison could juggle being an O.G. and a footballer.

kryogen

Eli Manning wrote: »

Its unrealistic to think Morrison could juggle being an O.G. and a footballer.

Who knows, one day we may even see the Return of the Mack

Liam O

Is there seriously talk of selling Vidic? The guy is United's best player when he plays bar none. I'd get rid of any CB over him if he's going to be fit for next season.

IvySlayer

Keno 92 wrote: »

My bet is still valid.

Bourbons > custard creams

Kylo Ren

IvySlayer wrote: »

Bourbons > custard creams

Oreos > Everything else

kryogen

There is clearly a situation brewing where choices will have to be made though, Rio is the obvious one to be stepping down in the near future, so that leaves.

Vidic, Evans, Smalling and Jones as the first team centre backs.

Evans has proved his worth this season, Smalling is too good to sit on the bench and Jones is certainly one the club have high hopes for and does have a huge amount of potential.

Thats 3 guys, younger then Vidic, who is 30 years of age, that will all need to be playing regularly, I dont think it will become a major problem really as Jones in particular wont be ready to play centre back week in week out for a couple of years at least really, so Vidic will be on his way out then for sure imo. But keeping both Evans and Smalling happy in the short term may be a slight problem.

Hopefully it wont and both can play enough to keep them happy over the next couple of seasons.

Kylo Ren

Look most of can concur that selling Vidic is stupid. We have Vidic, Smalling, Jones, Evans and Ferdinand at CB.

Ferdinand will not be able to play every game next season. Far from it.

I think we can all agree Jones is not ready to start at CB week in week out.

So Vidic, Evans and Smalling will play the majority of the games at CB.

Sell Vidic and we have Evans and Smalling at CB. Could be a disaster.

Then we have the regular Manchester United defender herpes. At least one will contract it next season like every other season.

Therefore we keep Vidic. Thank you.

Samich

Blatter wrote: »

Like this opinion, after the Newcastle game



Seriously, it's not as if we haven't left go some of or better players before for one reason or another. Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis were considered three of our best players when they all left in the Summer of '95 but Ferguson got it spot on because he recognized that Scholes, Beckham etc. were a special bunch.

He has shown time and time again that he'll make difficult and sometimes unpopular decisions if he thinks he has young players that are good enough to step up.

Wow that's crazy, how times have changed :P I didn't think city would crumble like they have done

Anyways, vidic hasn't a hope in hell of going.

And rio, won't go. He's pure manchester united and he'd take a pay cut to stay I think.