Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Pro. F

lordgoat wrote: »

change the record, Carrick has been vital the season, without him there is no way we'd be anywhere near the top of the table.

Change the record yourself.

Carrick is an average player for his position and would be easily replaceable. Rooney, Scholes, Valencia, DDG and the settled centre back partnership have all been more important than him.

lordgoat

Pro. F wrote: »

Change the record yourself.

Carrick is an average player for his position and would be easily replaceable. Rooney, Scholes, Valencia, DDG and the settled centre back partnership have all been more important than him.

That might very well be but you are completely blinded and wrong to say he's not had a good season.


My record don't need changing. Bar Rooney Carrick's been our most valuable player this year. Maybe Evans is on a par with him.

Yes, very easy to replace our best midfielder this year.

Pro. F

lordgoat wrote: »

That might very well be but you are completely blinded and wrong to say he's not had a good season.


My record don't need changing. Bar Rooney Carrick's been our most valuable player this year. Maybe Evans is on a par with him.

I disagree.

lordgoat wrote: »

Yes, very easy to replace our best midfielder this year.

1. He's not been our best central midfielder this year, Scholes has.
2. Our central midfield options in general are poor so using them as a standard by which to judge him is wrong.

Who is the back-up defensive midfielder this season? Park? Jones? Pogba? Wow, Carrick has been better than them, let's have a bank holiday in his honour.

lordgoat

Pro. F wrote: »

I disagree.



1. He's not been our best central midfielder this year, Scholes has.
2. Our central midfield options in general are poor so using them as a standard by which to judge him is wrong.

Who is the back-up defensive midfielder this season? Park? Jones? Pogba? Wow, Carrick has been better than them, let's have a bank holiday in his honour.

As much as I love Scholes, he's played half the season. Sure he'd been crucial, Carricks played at the same level for the entire season. So for this year yep he's been the best CM we've had. Learn to deal with it.

Eathrin

For those saying Carrick's vital to the cause, would you be happy to see him command cm again next year? Carrick has played well, definitely important this season, but I don't think he's particularly outclassed any of our other star performers.
Carrick's been our best cm this year but that's not saying a whole lot.
Scholes for me has been the best since January but he's not going to last forever, will be interesting to see if he stays on next year.

I'd like to see a better player brought in next season that can do what Carrick does but in Europe also.
Then there's the acm role which needs filling. I'd like to see Cleverley step up again but he's got an awfu injury record that's holding him back.

Pro. F

lordgoat wrote: »

As much as I love Scholes, he's played half the season. Sure he'd been crucial, Carricks played at the same level for the entire season. So for this year yep he's been the best CM we've had. Learn to deal with it.

Carrick hasn't played with the same quality as Scholes nor anything like it. And he hasn't played the entire season. Although I agree that durability is one of his assets.

Also you are ignoring the argument I put to you about comparing our other generally poor cm options when judging Carrick.

Learn to deal with it.

tvercetti

Okay Pro. F thinks Carrick has done nothing of note and lordgoat thinks Carrick has had a good season.

Can we please move on now????

lordgoat

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick hasn't played with the same quality as Scholes nor anything like it. And he hasn't played the entire season. Although I agree that durability is one of his assets.

Also you are ignoring the argument I put to you about comparing our other generally poor cm options when judging Carrick.

Learn to deal with it.

The discussion is about the best CM we've had this season. So Carrick can only be better than the others who've played there. Which he has been, comfortably. Not ignoring anything.

You don't put value (imo) on the role that Carrick has and that is to allow Scholes and whoever is next to him in the middle to play the more impressive expansive passing game. I'm done now, until you decide to say that Carrick's been poor this season. Then i'll probably call you on it again.

kryogen

Can I just say that comparing Carrick and Scholes is completely stupid.

They are not comparable, they do not do the same job for the team and as a partnership are pretty damn ****ing good.

How can you judge Carrick by Scholes criteria and vice versa.

Nalz

Carrick has been good, above average but consistently good in the league.

I can see his limitations but he's done more than a good job this season for us.

He can't be compared to Scholes either.

aperture_nuig

On a different note, anyone think the wigan game might not be the easiest? they need points and have been decent at home.

Mitch Connor

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Maybe its just that we havent seen any of him over the last while but I think you are doing Fletch a massive disservice there Mitch!

He was poor before he eventually took sick leave. he not inky has to come back from this illness, he needs to come back at a much higher level than he was at.

from listening to people who have the same illness it is a truly massive ask for him to come back at all, to any level if professional play.

I'm not saying he should be released, but I think it would be folly to assume he will contribute as much as we'd like so from a pragmatic point of view I wouldn't be counting on him next season.

Paul Tergat

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He was poor before he eventually took sick leave. he not inky has to come back from this illness, he needs to come back at a much higher level than he was at.

from listening to people who have the same illness it is a truly massive ask for him to come back at all, to any level if professional play.

I'm not saying he should be released, but I think it would be folly to assume he will contribute as much as we'd like so from a pragmatic point of view I wouldn't be counting on him next season.

Ohhh I thought you were getting at him not being good enough full stop.

I put his dip in form before we knew of it down to the illness.

MANUTD99

aperture_nuig wrote: »

On a different note, anyone think the wigan game might not be the easiest? they need points and have been decent at home.

Not sure who I want to play with Rooney in this one. Welbeck or Chico haven't been on top form last few games. I think if the little pea had a couple of Welbecks chances yesterday he would have put one away. Welbeck is better at holding the ball. At a push I would like Chico to start.

ROCKMAN

aperture_nuig wrote: »

On a different note, anyone think the wigan game might not be the easiest? they need points and have been decent at home.

It now becomes the biggest game of the season (:rolleyes:i know )and that alone will effect the game ,Think we just need to stay patient and take your chances.We should have enough in hand to get a result.

Red Crow

MANUTD99 wrote: »

aperture_nuig wrote: »

On a different note, anyone think the wigan game might not be the easiest? they need points and have been decent at home.

Not sure who I want to play with Rooney in this one. Welbeck or Chico haven't been on top form last few games. I think if the little pea had a couple of Welbecks chances yesterday he would have put one away. Welbeck is better at holding the ball. At a push I would like Chico to start.

7 goals in 26 isn't good enough. We lack a goal scorer.

MANUTD99

Watching the Villa v Stoke game. Villa are a really poor team. We should really be doing these big time next weekend.

Paul Tergat

Eli Manning wrote: »

7 goals in 26 isn't good enough. We lack a goal scorer.

Rotation isnt helping either of them imo

Mikeyt086

Eli Manning wrote: »

7 goals in 26 isn't good enough. We lack a goal scorer.

Well, Wayne Rooney has 29 goals. He is our goal scorer.

What we do have is 2 potential absolute dream partners, the problem is, one of them has sublime build-up play, great passing, but lacks a killer instinct in front of goal. The other is a cold blooded killer in front of goal, but almost useless outside the 18 yard box.

Welbeck was doing absolutely brilliantly up until January, and his performances were keeping Chicharito out of the team (Chich was injured too), so Javier has had no run of games to get his lethal sharpness back. I think we should be starting Hernandez, as in the run-in to the title and CL final last season he was one of the best strikers in Europe. Given another run in the team I have no doubt he would get that back, but the problem is how well the others play with Welbeck in the team.

It's a conundrum, but one we are lucky to have imo. And as I've said already, give Chich the start, especially against Alcaraz and Caldwell who, lets face it, wont be able to smell Hernandez with the difference in pace.

MANUTD99

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Well, Wayne Rooney has 29 goals. He is our goal scorer.

What we do have is 2 potential absolute dream partners, the problem is, one of them has sublime build-up play, great passing, but lacks a killer instinct in front of goal. The other is a cold blooded killer in front of goal, but almost useless outside the 18 yard box.

Welbeck was doing absolutely brilliantly up until January, and his performances were keeping Chicharito out of the team (Chich was injured too), so Javier has had no run of games to get his lethal sharpness back. I think we should be starting Hernandez, as in the run-in to the title and CL final last season he was one of the best strikers in Europe. Given another run in the team I have no doubt he would get that back, but the problem is how well the others play with Welbeck in the team.

It's a conundrum, but one we are lucky to have imo. And as I've said already, give Chich the start, especially against Alcaraz and Caldwell who, lets face it, wont be able to smell Hernandez with the difference in pace.

Have to agree. I think if Chico gets a decent run of games he'll start smashing them in. On another note if Welbeck can work on that killer touch then he will tear the PL apart

Mikeyt086

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Have to agree. I think if Chico gets a decent run of games he'll start smashing them in. On another note if Welbeck can work on that killer touch then he will tear the PL apart

Exactly. Give Chicharito a run, get goals. Welbeck is still so young and can develop into a more clinical player.

No problem in that area. If we were being greedy, there could be a case made for maybe bringing in a more physical striker as a 4th, but I think there are very few players who would be of the quality required AND be willing to play a lesser role.

Blatter

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Exactly. Give Chicharito a run, get goals. Welbeck is still so young and can develop into a more clinical player.

No problem in that area. If we were being greedy, there could be a case made for maybe bringing in a more physical striker as a 4th, but I think there are very few players who would be of the quality required AND be willing to play a lesser role.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the Summer when Berba goes. Another striker like Ba? Or give Will Keane/Macheda a go at 4th choice? Or just another creative player that can play in behind like a Hazard?

We'll surely be purchasing a central midfielder at the very least anyway.

jaykay74

I know I am jinxing the whole thing here but those short of appearances for medals. You need 10 league appearances to qualify. You can get a few medals with special dispensation as well I think.

I'd say Raf/Cleverley will reach 10. Fletch/Vidic would probably be eligable for special dispensation due to injuries. Reserve keeper usually gets one I think. Don't see Fabio getting 5 more.

Rafael - 9 games
Fletcher, Lindegaard - 8 games
Cleverley - 7 games
Vidic - 6 games
Fabio - 5 games
Pogba, Macheda - 3 games
Fryers - 2 games
Keane, Owen, Amos - 1 game

I've jinxed it haven't I

Kylo Ren

---

De Gea

---

Rafael

---

Vidic

---

Smalling/Ferdinand

---

Evra

---

Cleverly---Carrick

---

Valencia

---

Hazard

---

Nani

---

Rooney

---

Splendid.

Vic Vinegar

Keno 92 wrote: »

---

De Gea

---

Rafael

---

Vidic

---

Smalling/Ferdinand

---

Evra

---

Cleverly---Carrick

---

Valencia

---

Hazard

---

Nani

---

Rooney

---

Splendid.

I don't think Cleverley is suited to the deep midfield role. He's not very good at tackling and closing down (yet)

Kylo Ren

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

I don't think Cleverley is suited to the deep midfield role. He's not very good at tackling and closing down (yet)

Agreed. A guy like Fellaini would work well there.

Vic Vinegar

Keno 92 wrote: »

Agreed. A guy like Fellaini would work well there.

Or Martinez!

Lovely stuff.

Red Crow

We are constantly drawing closer to the no striker role à la Roma. Rooney has to drop back too far to call himself a striker in his current role.

I think it's time to start Hernandez again.

Red Crow

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

I don't think Cleverley is suited to the deep midfield role. He's not very good at tackling and closing down (yet)

That's where he played when everybody was jizzing themselves about him at the start of the season. Anderson played slightly ahead of him when they were married in the centre.

Vic Vinegar

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's where he played when everybody was jizzing themselves about him at the start of the season. Anderson played slightly ahead of him when they were married in the centre.

Indeed, that's when we also gave away about a billion chances to the opposition, which kind of proves my point.

KevLeppard

Eli Manning wrote: »

I think it's time to start Hernandez again.

Agreed, defo prefer Hernandez as first choice striker, along side Rooney.

Orando Broom

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Maybe its just that we havent seen any of him over the last while but I think you are doing Fletch a massive disservice there Mitch!

Don't think so. Fletcher is a good squad player but I'd shed no tears if he never played for United again.

Copper_pipe

Before Scholes came back Man Utd were 6th in the passing accuracy table - they're now 1st.

Not suprised

Copper_pipe

KevLeppard wrote: »

Agreed, defo prefer Hernandez as first choice striker, along side Rooney.

Once he masters the offside trap he will be class

Orando Broom

Giruilla wrote: »

Do the folks on here still believe Nani/showboating **** is still better than Valencia?

Can I say I like both because they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT TYPES OF PLAYER?

Vic Vinegar

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Before Scholes came back Man Utd were 6th in the passing accuracy table - they're now 1st.

Not suprised

Wow! not bad for a desperate act.

Copper_pipe

Copper pipes bank holiday giggle:

The Titanic cost £200m. So did Liverpool's current side. One is a sinking ship.....The other was the Titanic.

And for those of you who dont recall the last bank holiday here is a link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77672970#post77672970

homerjay2005

The transformation in our fortunes since scholes came back is incredible. he is the biggest reason we lead the table right now, ably followed by de gea, evans and rooney all putting their blackburn week nightmare behind them, all 3 have been sensational since that game. add in rio leading the way, valencia getting fit and carrick carrying on his early season form,seems to have galvanised the team and led to our revival. if only scholes had been back 6 weeks earlier, our euro campaign may not have been such a disaster.

TheTownie

Blatter wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the Summer when Berba goes. Another striker like Ba? Or give Will Keane/Macheda a go at 4th choice? Or just another creative player that can play in behind like a Hazard?

We'll surely be purchasing a central midfielder at the very least anyway.

I've banked my hopes on Kevin Strootman. Haven't seen him play but the guy is getting rave reviews and is a realistic target.

A 6ft 1in box to box midfielder who grew up as an offensive midfielder but has been playing a much deeper role this season improving his defensive skills. He is considered very good technically and the dutch national coach has commended him for his vision.

Hes only 22 and would without doubt improve our midfield as it is and has the potential to be world class.

I think a deal would have to be done before the Euros as this is the kind of guy who would become very hot property after such a tournament even though hes on everyone's radar already.

PhlegmyMoses

@TheTownie - Is that a joke? A player you have never seen would definitely improve our midfield?

TheTownie

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

@TheTownie - Is that a joke? A player you have never seen would definitely improve our midfield?

Yes, a player who is keeping Nigel De Jong out of the Dutch national team starting XI would improve our midfield.

PhlegmyMoses

TheTownie wrote: »

Yes, a player who is keeping Nigel De Jong out of the Dutch national team starting XI would improve our midfield.

You cannot base your judgement on a player you have never seen on the fact that one manager thinks he suits his system better than another player. It's crazy to want a player you have never seen. Will he suit a midfield two? What about a three? What will he bring to the table? Good tackler? Presses well? Good passer? If he is similar to De Jong, will we really need him in the large number of cakewalks we have during a season? Well, we don't know because we haven't seen him. His own manager rates him though.

Mikeyt086

Love this:

Cantona's Collars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxXfeSrNj-g

Lots of reports that United scouts have been watching him a lot.

Ordinary man

homerjay2005 wrote: »

The transformation in our fortunes since scholes came back is incredible. he is the biggest reason we lead the table right now, ably followed by de gea, evans and rooney all putting their blackburn week nightmare behind them, all 3 have been sensational since that game. add in rio leading the way, valencia getting fit and carrick carrying on his early season form,seems to have galvanised the team and led to our revival. if only scholes had been back 6 weeks earlier, our euro campaign may not have been such a disaster.

It was amazing the boost scholes gave to the squad when he came back as you said but it took some balls by fergie to let him. How many people commented on how it was a sign of desperation and a measure of how bad the other players were when united needed to bring him back. It could have upset the whole team but instead galvanised it to get the results we've seen lately.

With all the limitations the team is supposed to have, all the injuries, the stuttering results before christmas and here we are now with the chance to set a premiership points record. Once again got to tip the hat to fergie

TheTownie

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You cannot base your judgement on a player you have never seen on the fact that one manager thinks he suits his system better than another player. It's crazy to want a player you have never seen. Will he suit a midfield two? What about a three? What will he bring to the table? Good tackler? Presses well? Good passer? If he is similar to De Jong, will we really need him in the large number of cakewalks we have during a season? Well, we don't know because we haven't seen him. His own manager rates him though.

If I was a scout I'd worry about all that shít. I'm not so I won't.

I, and everyone else here, have zero influence on who Utd sign.

Utd have pursued a policy of signing young players with lots of potential and sell on fees.

Utd also like to get value for money these days so people saying they want Martinez etc seems unrealistic to me as I don't see Utd splashing that much money on one player. I trust the opinion of the majority that this kid is a very good talent and with the state of our midfield it isn't a radical thought to think he would improve it.

PhlegmyMoses

TheTownie wrote: »

If I was a scout I'd worry about all that shít. I'm not so I won't.

I, and everyone else here, have zero influence on who Utd sign.

Utd have pursued a policy of signing young players with lots of potential and sell on fees.

Utd also like to get value for money these days so people saying they want Martinez etc seems unrealistic to me as I don't see Utd splashing that much money on one player. I trust the opinion of the majority that this kid is a very good talent and with the state of our midfield it isn't a radical thought to think he would improve it.

I never said that anyone here had any say over who United buy. That is disingenuous.

Your comment that a player who you have never seen play would improve our midfield is what I take issue with.

Think of it this way: I'm going to state definitively that he would not improve our midfield. In fact, he would disimprove it. If he is keeping De Jong out of the team, then he is primarily a destroyer with limited attacking abilities. Not suited to a team who play most of their season in the opposing half. I haven't seen him play, though.

TheTownie

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I never said that anyone here had any say over who United buy. That is disingenuous.

Your comment that a player who you have never seen play would improve our midfield is what I take issue with.

Think of it this way: I'm going to state definitively that he would not improve our midfield. In fact, he would disimprove it. If he is keeping De Jong out of the team, then he is primarily a destroyer with limited attacking abilities. Not suited to a team who play most of their season in the opposing half. I haven't seen him play, though.

Well, luckily for me there are people paid to watch players i.e. scouts, who can give me an insight in to the type of player he is rather than pick some random idea of the type of player he is, like you just did.

Try using Google, its great.

Cantona's Collars

Strootman is completely different to De Jong,he doesn't just sit deep,tackle then pass the ball 5 yards.He covers the whole pitch,a bit like Keano did in his prime and at only 21 he's the type of player United are targeting.

Orando Broom

zerks wrote: »

Strootman is completely different to De Jong,he doesn't just sit deep,tackle then pass the ball 5 yards.He covers the whole pitch,a bit like Keano did in his prime and at only 21 he's the type of player United are targeting.

From the limited yoo toob footage he looks like a player that would fit well at United.