Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

homerjay2005

id rather have kept o shea and/or browne for one more season and signed a low cost back up CH to allow us spend the money spent on jones on a CM.

jones has been awful as a CH this season.

Mikeyt086

Samich wrote: »

He did play unreal in the one game I seen of him in the first leg v chelsea but he was more wide left wasn't he than anything?

He was unreal in both legs against us in fairness. That tends to be how we pick our signings aswell.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

no your spot on, he is woefully overrated and over hyped on this thread. he was poor again last night and has been for many months now.

i dont hold as much hope for him as alot of lads on here do. Smalling is a much better footballer, yet gets half the praise.

On Phil Jones, great up until December, very poor since then. I dont see many people in here disagreeing with that, so how is he woefully overhyped? Is it the sigs? Because if it is... That's an awfully silly opinion to have. Smalling is slightly older, more experienced and better at defending.

v3ttel

MagicMarker wrote: »

Fair enough if you think he didn't play well, but slating him for trying to actually do something is ridiculous. It's not like the defender headed the ball away and Jones clattered into him 5 seconds later out of frustration! It was a 50/50 chance of getting his head on it and the defender got there just before him. Hardly something worth criticism.

I'm not slating him for "doing something". Some balls you just can't win.

The chap needs to lose the "I'll end your life" mentality if someone thinks about getting past him or winning a 60/40 where he is the underdog (a little like the twins).

The amount of times he's hurt himself this season reminds me of the twins. He has the potential to be an outstanding player, but the hype is ridiculous for someone who still has so much to work on.

IMHO, he needs to learn to use his brain in tandem with his unreal committment

Mikeyt086

Rooney10 wrote: »

I'm not slating him for "doing something". Some balls you just can't win.

The chap needs to lose the "I'll end your life" mentality if someone thinks about getting past him or winning a 60/40 where he is the underdog (a little like the twins).

The amount of times he's hurt himself this season reminds me of the twins. He has the potential to be an outstanding player, but the hype is ridiculous for someone who still has so much to work on.

IMHO, he needs to learn to use his brain in tandem with his unreal committment

lol, I said that about Rafael a few weeks back, and now that I think about it, you do have a point. Bags of potential, clearly has ability, far too committed to the point where he injures himself...

Phil Jones... 'The English Da Silva Twin'

Backstreet Moyes

What i dont get is people hyping Jones up so much and alot of it to do with his determination and how commited he is. Yes he is talented but not as good as Smalling, Rafael and Fabio from what i saw last season until he got injured. What about Rafael he gives it everything he is like Jones gives it his all and is so committed. The time he stood upto Tevez the way he celebrates he is brilliant. He is a brilliant right back and has a great relationship with Valencia. He offers so much more than Jones. Jones has a bright future but at the moment of our young defenders he is behind Smalling, Rafael, Evans and Fabio imo. Exciting times when you look how young they are and how many games they have played.

Blatter

That's 4 or 5 times this year you've had a little rant about Jones Homer. Funny thing is I've seen very little hype over him since January so I'm not sure where you're going with the over hyped stuff.

He was heavily praised before Xmas because he deserved it as he was very good for the most part. And why doesn't he get criticised much when he's been poor? Erm, may have something got to do with the fact he's just after turning 20 and nobody expected him to be super duper consistent throughout the whole season. Smalling is currently better? Who has denied that? The thing is he's also over two years older so understandably there's not as much hype about him.

Jones has had a fantastic first season here overall and has surpassed most peoples' expectations of him. He will make you eat your suggestion that we shouldn't have bought him in the near future. Serious injury aside, I guarantee you that.

Will I Amnt

Blatter wrote: »

Jones has had a fantastic first season here overall and has surpassed most peoples' expectations of him. He will make you eat your suggestion that we shouldn't have bought him in the near future. Serious injury aside, I guarantee you that.

Have to disagree with that,he had some decent games early on but he's regressed so much that it's overshadowed the good parts for me.

I do however agree with the last line.
It's hard to be too critical because of his age but I think it's too soon for him now.

Blatter

cambo2008 wrote: »

Have to disagree with that,he had some decent games early on but he's regressed so much that it's overshadowed the good parts for me.

I do however agree with the last line.
It's hard to be too critical because of his age but I think it's too soon for him now.

Overall he's had a very good season imo. He started off the season like a house on fire for the first few weeks, performed at a lower albeit fairly consistent standard for the next couple of months and then helped us out with useful performances in CM when we needed someone in there just before Xmas. (Wolves at home, QPR away come to mind where he was fairly good in those games)

Regressed so much since then? That's way too harsh tbh. He's only started maybe 9 or 10 games since Xmas. He's been constantly in and out of the team, had a couple of minor injuries, and when he has played he's had no continuity in the same position. He's been switched between centre back, right back and central midfield. How can we really expect consistent performances from someone so young, in those circumstances?

Mikeyt086

Here is what has happened with Phil Jones' career at Manchester United in my view:

August: Signed. Everyone seems happy with the signing, looked a decent prospect, lets see how it goes attitude. Comes on at half time in the Chairty Shield at 0-2 down and had a surprisingly solid half in a game we turned on its head to win 3-2. Already winning fans after 45 mins of play.

September: Phil Jones is an ever present in the rip-roaring, swash-bucking, hide yo kids hide yo wife cuz they rapin' errbody out here, Manchester United side. Comparisions to Franz Beckenbaur and Duncan Edwards are drawn.

October: A solid month for Phil, a few performances with the odd mistake, and then a horror show against Basle in the Champo League. By and large, he was decent.

November: The mistakes are becoming more obvious, everyone seems to be cooling down on him, but a few good performances keep him on the good books.

December: A string of very good performances, against Wolves, Swansea, QPR and Aston Villa, some of them in CM, bring the Jones buzz back. A great month.

January: The Newcastle game undoes all of his work in December, he is right back to the November opinion of "Hmm... Is Smalling fit yet?". Still putting in good shifts, but not to the extent he was in September and December.

February-March: Noting spectacular, nothing awful, Phil Jones is coming along nicely, other players are stepping up and taking the spotlight away from him. A few poor performances in Europe are a cause for concern for some.

April: Has a poor game against Wigan, after an ineffective showing against Blackburn. The first really negative opinions about him pop up.

Basically. For a 19 year old in his first season at Manchester United, his first season has definitely been a success. He is not over-hyped. He was in September, but since then everyone has calmed down, which is why I found Homer's post a bit strange. Who is over-hyping him? It seems to me there are, since January, two schools of thought on Phil Jones in here, 1) He had a great start, now he is fading, but this is ok because he just turned 20, lets give him time. and 2) He is not as good as everyone thought. The second of which, I find very harsh. The major problem with all young players is inconsistency, its what separates good and great players. Give the lad time, I dont see many people over-hyping him, and if they are, they are in the minority.

I'll say this again about the sigs. In September, the media, United fans and most pundits were touting Phil Jones for world stardom, this pissed off fans of other clubs, who would in turn, down talk his ability, so as a joke, I made about 20 Phil Jones sigs, most of them were taking the piss like the Superman one, the Mortal Kombat one and the Indiana Jones one, it seems to me like lots of people are seeing these in all kinds of topics on boards.ie and thinking "Jesus, they really like Phil Jones dont they?" and that is perceived as hyping him up? I dont know, maybe I've missed the posts hailing Jones as a superstar, because I havent seen them. What I have seen, is a young kid thrown in at the deep end (like Smalling last year) who has shown ability and leadership. He has made a lot of mistakes in the 2nd half of the season, but I am hopeful he will have a great future with us. For what it's worth, at this moment in time I have Chris Smalling in the team ahead of Jones every week.

Cantona's Collars

homerjay2005 wrote: »

theres talk again today that the Gaitan deal is all but agreed.

nothing new apart from a lower price.

From Football 365:

Portuguese daily O Jogo reports United have verbally agreed a £22million deal for the Argentina star, with the Red Devils also set to include two young United players in the deal.

O Jogo reports that two of Bebe, Federico Macheda and Davide Petrucci have been offered as part of the deal, which will not be announced until the end of the season.The total value of the deal is reportedly worth the 45million euros release clause in Gaitan's contract.

RiseToTheTop

Utd shouldn't be paying large sums of money for players who aren't stars already.

More than £15 mill for Phil Jones? £22 mill for the above player from Argentina. Crazy. I agree that they have to pay more than your average club, but those prices really are biting the bullet.

MagicMarker

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Utd shouldn't be paying large sums of money for players who aren't stars already.

More than £15 mill for Phil Jones? £22 mill for the above player from Argentina. Crazy. I agree that they have to pay more than your average club, but those prices really are biting the bullet.

So you don't think we should have paid 12.5 mil for Ronaldo or 25 mil for Rooney?

RiseToTheTop

MagicMarker wrote: »

So you don't think we should have paid 12.5 mil for Ronaldo or 25 mil for Rooney?

I agree it's pretty when it works out, but what about when it doesn't.

Look at Carroll to Liverpool.

Son Of A Vidic

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Berba deserves a run.

Towards the exit hopefully.

SirDelboy18

United won't pay very big sums for established, top drawer players for a very very long time, because of the way the Berbatov deal worked out.

RasTa

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I agree it's pretty when it works out, but what about when it doesn't.

Look at Carroll to Liverpool.

So would should only splash the cash on proven stars like Torres and Shevchenko?

Timmyctc

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Utd shouldn't be paying large sums of money for players who aren't stars already.

More than £15 mill for Phil Jones? £22 mill for the above player from Argentina. Crazy. I agree that they have to pay more than your average club, but those prices really are biting the bullet.

I agree, we've spent so much the past couple of seasons on potential with Jones, De Gea, and to a certain degree Young I feel if we are going to buy more players they should be at least already accomplished. Not that Gaitan isn't already a good player. We need great players.

MagicMarker

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I agree it's pretty when it works out, but what about when it doesn't.

So because it doesn't work out sometimes, we should never do it just in case?

Timmyctc

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

United won't pay very big sums for established, top drawer players for a very very long time, because of the way the Berbatov deal worked out.

In my opinion Berba got a raw deal from Fergie. Looking at his stats this season alone 10 games 7 goals. Alot better than Danny Wel-outofmydepth-Beck.

homerjay2005

Diouf scored again for Hannover last night. thats 10 goals, 14 games. pretty exceptional going for him it has to be said.

defo a better player than macheda based on success out on loan anyway. unfortunately for him, he has got injured also last night and is out for the rest of the season looks like.

kryogen

The treatment of Berba has been disgraceful, and again it is a case of Fergie hurting the team because of his stubborness, with neither Welbeck or Chico setting the world alight at the moment where is the sense in not at least including the guy in the squad, he should be fresh as a daisy and would add something to the team in games like the Wigan one, he does give a different dimension.

People questioning his attitude need a serious reality check by the way.

Timmyctc

kryogen wrote: »

The treatment of Berba has been disgraceful, and again it is a case of Fergie hurting the team because of his stubborness, with neither Welbeck or Chico setting the world alight at the moment where is the sense in not at least including the guy in the squad, he should be fresh as a daisy and would add something to the team in games like the Wigan one, he does give a different dimension.

People questioning his attitude need a serious reality check by the way.

I couldn't agree more. Sure Berba said himself that he felt wrong getting paid each week but not getting to play. The guy was top scorer in the league last season ffs

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Diouf scored again for Hannover last night. thats 10 goals, 14 games. pretty exceptional going for him it has to be said.

defo a better player than macheda based on success out on loan anyway. unfortunately for him, he has got injured also last night and is out for the rest of the season looks like.

Shame for him , he has been brilliant for them in terms of goal return, as has been said, we all knew he was a class finisher, shame about his overall play.

Hope he does really well for himself in the future.

SirDelboy18

kryogen wrote: »

The treatment of Berba has been disgraceful, and again it is a case of Fergie hurting the team because of his stubborness, with neither Welbeck or Chico setting the world alight at the moment where is the sense in not at least including the guy in the squad, he should be fresh as a daisy and would add something to the team in games like the Wigan one, he does give a different dimension.

People questioning his attitude need a serious reality check by the way.

His misses against Man City in the Cup last year destroyed Alex's faith in him completely. I have never been his biggest fan but he is a nice alternative to have and on his day is unstoppable.

PhlegmyMoses

I think it's harsh to say that the only effect not playing Berba is having is detrimental. It is a positive thing that Welbeck and Hernandez are getting more games. It will hopefully be beneficial in the long term.

kryogen

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

His misses against Man City in the Cup last year destroyed Alex's faith in him completely. I have never been his biggest fan but he is a nice alternative to have and on his day is unstoppable.

lol

yeah Im sure that did it alright, jesus christ.

kryogen

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I think it's harsh to say that the only effect not playing Berba is having is detrimental. It is a positive thing that Welbeck and Hernandez are getting more games. It will hopefully be beneficial in the long term.

Your right, it is beneficial to them, and hopefully it will be great for the team in the future, but for right now, in a title run in, when justification can be given to Ryan Giggs starting games, in centre midfield no less, I cant see any footballing reason for him not to be included.

Mikeyt086

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I agree it's pretty when it works out, but what about when it doesn't.

Look at Carroll to Liverpool.

Look at a different club with different transfer policies?

Sorry, no. Our transfer policy at the moment is to buy exceptional young talent, and use the method we have been using to grow these lads into top players.

We buy players at high prices and young age to avoid having to buy in that position again in 2-3 years. The alternative is to buy like Dimitar Berbatov, while a player I have loved at United, we spent £30m on him and got about 2.5 seasons out of him, and will likely not see more than £10m back.

Going out and buying proven talent is grand if you are Man City. But we are not. We have a transfer policy with over-whelming success, and your not happy with it? We are doing it for a reason.

£15m for Phil Jones could be looked back on as an absolute steal if he delivers over the next 5 years and beyond. If he doesnt? We will likely recoup at least half of that, so it isnt a big loss at all. So your argument of "Its great when it works out inst it?" doesnt really fly. David De Gea, Chris Smalling and Javier Hernandez too. What's to say Nico Gaitan wont come, learn and develop into an elite player.

Anderson cost around £19m we are lead to believe. It's looking like his United career is winding down, we should still see £10m for him should we decide to sell. Thats when it doesnt work out, hardly a crisis.

When it does work out? C.Ronaldo, bought for £12m, the first United player to win the Ballon D'Or for decades and we net a £68m profit after a period of great success at the club. Nani, £17m is well worth what he has brought to us so far, let alone what he will continue to bring. Wayne Rooney was worth every penny.

Our transfer policy is brilliant, and the envy of many a club.

Fart

kryogen wrote: »

Your right, it is beneficial to them, and hopefully it will be great for the team in the future, but for right now, in a title run in, when justification can be given to Ryan Giggs starting games, in centre midfield no less, I cant see any footballing reason for him not to be included.

I agree. There are too many inconsistent performances from the guys up front at such a crucial time in the league. A touch of magic from the Bulgarian could be what we need. Perhaps we'd hit more on target too.

adox

Timmyctc wrote: »

In my opinion Berba got a raw deal from Fergie. Looking at his stats this season alone 10 games 7 goals. Alot better than Danny Wel-outofmydepth-Beck.

Welbeck has looked far from out of his depth since returning from Sunderland and has indeed looked one of Utds and England's brightest prospects.

It's starting to get very tabloid in here with players being either instantly great or instantly useless based on their current form.

In fact it's an insult to claim Welbeck is out of his depth. I think hes a huge talent and am delighted he's at Utd and getting a regular run. Sure he's been off the boil the last few games bt so the **** what?

Eathrin

Thanks for the sig Mikey again, but I should reiterate that I'm not actually of the opinion that Jones is the greatest thing in football. Just like most others, I agree that he's a fantastic prospect and has put some good performances in over the season but there's a lot of improvement to be done before he comes anywhere near to world-class standard.

Backstreet Moyes

What do people think will happen with Petrucci next season. His injury has really held him back otherwise i think he would be in the first team. He seems to have made an impact in the reserves since his return. Do people think he will be eased into the first team set up or would a loan be better. As far as i know he is 20 or 21 do people think he can make it at United. He really has a great eye for a pass think he could turn into a brilliant player but not sure if it will be with united.

tvercetti

Nuts102 wrote: »

What do people think will happen with Petrucci next season. His injury has really held him back otherwise i think he would be in the first team. He seems to have made an impact in the reserves since his return. Do people think he will be eased into the first team set up or would a loan be better. As far as i know he is 20 or 21 do people think he can make it at United. He really has a great eye for a pass think he could turn into a brilliant player but not sure if it will be with united.

Part of a Gaitan deal if your to believe what you read. Expect him to be sold but thats just my opinion.

RVD420

Shades of (dare I say it) the Sneijder saga, as Rene Meulensteen talks it up about Eden Hazard.

ESPN article

tvercetti

Had a chat with Sir Alex and he let me in on next seasons setup.
He has been playing Football Manager and reading the forums and this is what he came up with. Obviously registration could be an issue but we won't let those things get to us.

First 11:
_______________David De Gea_______________

Rafael DS____C. Smalling___N. Vidic____Fabio DS

________Javi Martínez_____Kevin Strootman____

Nicolás Gaitán_____Eden Hazard_____Iker Muniain

_______________Wayne Rooney_______________


Second 11:
_____________Anders Lindegaard_____________

N. Clyne_____P. Jones_____J. Evans_____P. Evra

Valencia____M. Carrick_____T. Cleverly____Nani

___________D. Welbeck___Chico_____________


Third 11:
_______________Ben Amos__________________

____Ferdinand____Marnick Vermijl____Fryers____

Park JS______Pogba______Fletcher______Young

_______________Junior Hoilett_______________

_____Dimitar Berbatov_____Michael Owen_____

Fourth 11:

____Anderson(What else does a team need)____


Obviuosly Scholes & Giggs will come out of retirement for he run-in to sure things up.

Samich

^^ Brilliant :pac:

smokedeels

adox wrote: »

Welbeck has looked far from out of his depth since returning from Sunderland and has indeed looked one of Utds and England's brightest prospects.

It's starting to get very tabloid in here with players being either instantly great or instantly useless based on their current form.

In fact it's an insult to claim Welbeck is out of his depth. I think hes a huge talent and am delighted he's at Utd and getting a regular run. Sure he's been off the boil the last few games bt so the **** what?

The other poster calling him out of his depth was bs, I think he's the real deal, but he is ready to be first choice when he only has one goal more than Berbatov, having played significantly more games?

If Hernandez and Welbeck don't step it up, and they've both been hit and miss for a number of games now, then I'll be banging my head against the wall in the knowledge that we have a guy with Berba's strike rate on gardening leave.

Welbeck, unlike Hernandez has more than just goals in his game, but I've seen very little of his other attributes lately.

PhlegmyMoses

With Berba on the way out and Rio going to be on a lower paid contract, do we have anyone apart from Rooney over £100,000 per week. Maybe Vidic? Can't think of anyone else.

titan18

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

With Berba on the way out and Rio going to be on a lower paid contract, do we have anyone apart from Rooney over £100,000 per week. Maybe Vidic? Can't think of anyone else.

I thought Young was on a lot of money, and more than likely Nani will be soon

Samba

kryogen wrote: »

People Samba questioning his attitude need(s) a serious reality check by the way.

Fixed that for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C33U-PPsScc

2 minutes in

I'm not going to sit here and question his overall attitude, but yes, I will call into question his demeanor and attitude on the pitch at times and rightly so! I'm sure he cares about winning and playing regular first team football, and I wasn't implying he's happy to pick up a cheque and warm the bench either.

The treatment of Berba has been disgraceful, and again it is a case of Fergie hurting the team because of his stubborness, with neither Welbeck or Chico setting the world alight at the moment where is the sense in not at least including the guy in the squad, he should be fresh as a daisy and would add something to the team in games like the Wigan one, he does give a different dimension.

It's definitely not ideal having such a talented player warming the bench, but he's been just as inconsistent and unreliable as he has been brilliant, the same could probably be said about Chico this season, but don't automatically assume it's just a case of plain old stubbornness that he's not playing him. Chico and Wellbeck are part of the long term plan, whereas Berbatov is likely to be sold in the Summer, it makes sense to give them most of the game time.

Son Of A Vidic

Fart wrote: »

A touch of magic from the Bulgarian could be what we need. Perhaps we'd hit more on target too.

On target more? You do realise it was his penchant for missing the really important ones, that put him out of the squad in the first place.

Giggsy11

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

His misses against Man City in the Cup last year destroyed Alex's faith in him completely. I have never been his biggest fan but he is a nice alternative to have and on his day is unstoppable.

If that is how strikers are dropped then I dont think any striker will play at any club for more than say 2-3 years. This year for all the RVP goals he has missed few sitters, will Wenger drop him for those misses?

Berba wont suit the tactics we are trying to play is the only genuine excuse I can think of or there must be something going on behind the scenes.

kryogen

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

With Berba on the way out and Rio going to be on a lower paid contract, do we have anyone apart from Rooney over £100,000 per week. Maybe Vidic? Can't think of anyone else.

Id say Carrick would be close to the 100k mark, Nani surely is or will be soon, Young is supposedly around the 80k mark, Evra would be up there too, dunno how much Giggs is on, but would hope its nowhere near the 100k a week mark.

Tony V will push for around that mark too on his next contract I would imagine.

TheTownie

RVD420 wrote: »

Shades of (dare I say it) the Sneijder saga, as Rene Meulensteen talks it up about Eden Hazard.

ESPN article

Rene was also reported to have been talking down Kevin Strootman.

The first-team coach told Voetbal International: "The name Strootman has internally never been discussed.

We follow every young player with potential. The same is true for example with Christian [Eriksen].

I don't have a very clear picture of Strootman as a player. In England, some media call him 'the new Roy Keane' but that seems like nonsense to me."

Rene talks too much for my liking.

nicklauski

One of the writers for the Times (I think) came out and said that the Gaitan deal was pure Bullshít and that neither United, nor City, were ever interested in him.

It's the beauty of twitter after a loss.
Newcastle beat United, agreement reached to sign Erickson.
Wigan Beat United, Gaitan deal agreed.

I can't wait till Villa win, United will be signing Xavi then.

Adolf Hipster

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Fart wrote: »

A touch of magic from the Bulgarian could be what we need. Perhaps we'd hit more on target too.

On target more? You do realise it was his penchant for missing the really important ones, that put him out of the squad in the first place.

Lol.

gracehopper

nicklauski wrote: »

I can't wait till Villa win, United will be signing Xavi then.

Jaysus, i hope villa don't win!

nicklauski

gracehopper wrote: »

Jaysus, i hope villa don't win!

You're not the only one, but this is the kind of mentality that is going around.

After the Newcastle game, people were saying Ferdinand should be got rid of in the summer.
Now after some good (albeit great) games, they want him in the England side.

We're a fickle bunch us football fans.


I want United to go out and absolutely destroy Villa and put all the pressure on City.

Mitch Connor

Link to player ratings form for the Wigan game.

Have been too angry to get to it before now.

Still angry.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGt5MFhUbHZ4cy1la1B6WlBCbE44OVE6MQ#gid=0

Cantona's Collars

I can envision all the Green & Gold campaign scarves and jerseys coming out in support of Norwich on Saturday.:)